Post: #1

Correct me if I'm wrong, but one of the main concepts of game is that girls prefer assholes. Nice guys don't get pussy. You have to be aloof, distant, and pretend they mean nothing to you or you won't get anywhere with them. They always want the one they can't have, so if you make yourself too accessible, you will bore them and they will look for the nearest asshole.

So I've been trying this out and I don't think I'm doing it right. Latest example: There's a bartender working at this bar. I walked in with some people, she came over to get our orders and I was cocky and funny with her. That seemed to go well, I actually had her laughing even though she had been all serious when she came over. Then later I went to the bar and was talking with her when she wasn't busy.

I go back a few nights later and she's not busy again. I start talking her up, and things are going well in my opinion. She is actually asking me questions about myself, which is a good sign. Once in a while she leaves to go do something, but comes back. Even when other people are around, she's talking to me. She seems like a serious, educated artsy girl, not a ditz or a club girl. Soon we're sitting at a table. Some paper and a pen appears and I cleverly use it to get her to teach me some of the local language. Her attention is fully on me and the language lesson. She's really into it. She even forgets to accept money for a drink I ordered off her.

My drink is finished so it's time for another one, but I have to go to the other room to get a beer because I feel like a beer and there's no beer at her bar. So I get up, say something like "I'll be back" and go to the other room. I did intend to come back right away but there was a delay getting a beer in the other room. Minutes pass... I start thinking about game and how I can improve my chances with this bartender. Into my head comes the 'asshole' concept. So I decide to turn this delay into an opportunity, and take my time going back to her. I start talking to some people; finally I get my drink, but by now I'm sitting in a group of people talking to this woman. That goes on for about half an hour. Then I tell the woman to come with me to the other room for a drink. The point is to make the bartender - not jealous per se, but to demonstrate that I don't need her, I can meet other women. We go. By now the bartender in the other room has put away the pen and paper and is back to work. I get drinks with the other woman. Then we go to the main room.

The next day I thought I had done things correctly. I planned to go back to the bar that night and pick up where I had left off. So that night that's what I did. Just as I'm arriving, I see the bartender leaving with 2 other girls. She doesn't see me. So I follow them, get ahead of them about half a block and then walk back casually, so it looks like I just bumped into her. When she sees me I say "Hi" and ask her if she's working tonight. But she barely acknowledges me, and keeps walking without answering or stopping. I totally had not expected that reaction.

So what did I do wrong? Did I do anything wrong? Or am I overanalyzing this.

I'm just doing what I've read about in this forum and in other places. I would prefer not to act like an asshole, I would have preferred to sit with the bartender all night and be nice to her, because that feels more natural to me; but not only does game tell you that's the wrong way to do it, I have also noticed from experience that this tends to end in failure.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to what, if anything, I should do next. It's a good lounge, and I want to go back there - what should I say to this bartender next time I see her? Anything? Should I turn my back and pretend she doesn't exist? But being on bad terms with the staff is going to ruin your night and cripple you when you try to meet other girls.

Did I fuck up, and if so, at which point? Was it at the beginning - by imagining the bartender was being any more than polite to me? They don't really work for tips here, so it's not like in North America where they're extra friendly so you'll pay them. But perhaps she was just being polite anyway. Or did I fuck up the next night, by not fighting her resistance as she walked past me - was that a shit test, or was she really offended by my presence? It's kind of rude what she did. But it was kind of rude what I did the previous night, taking off while she was in the middle of giving me a language lesson. But I was only being rude because I thought that's what women want. Or did I fuck up somewhere in between.

Being an asshole is confusing....

Post: #2

Depends on the country.In slavic countries girls do not want assholes.They have enough of them among the locals.

Post: #3

(08-31-2012 06:11 AM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  Depends on the country.In slavic countries girls do not want assholes.They have enough of them among the locals.

So you're saying I should have returned sooner rather than taking my time.
And I don't have to be an asshole here - ok, maybe a little, but not to the levels you have to be in the West.

Post: #4

I wouldn't recommend anyone go out with the mentality of "being an asshole" to get girls. The only reason I'm like that sometimes is because I'm nautrally a dick and smart ass so it just comes out when I'm annoyed. I don't think that I need to be an asshole, it just happens and I have to force myself to control it if the girl is getting annoyed or upset with me.

You fucked up when you left her alone for 30 minutes man!! That would piss anyone off.

Post: #5

Dude you pulled the jealous routine at the wrong time, far too early into the game. Seems like she was biting and you showed her you are like ALL the other guys.

You are in Croatia not Toronto/NYC, cocky and funny (asshole game) does not work in Europe, trust me I learnt the hard way.

Post: #6

If asshole game works, great. If it doesn't move on. It works if you stay in frame, to be honest it's not necessary. You don't need to be a bleeding hard asshole to get laid, I'll meet more people on this forum in the future as they can critique my "nice guy game". Being a dick is unhealthy in my view.

Just don't be a push over. I have a girl with me this weekend who says things like the below to me via text

Her: "I don't get you, you're so sweet and nice and I just want to be with you all the time. Something is different. I can't figure it out."

What she is really alluding to is that I'm not a pushover. If you fuck me over get ready for a shit storm.

There is a difference between being a push over and a nice guy. Think about it like this, do you know a good salesman whose a dick to all his clients, no. You're trying to sell dick, not be one.

Post: #7

(08-31-2012 06:06 AM)allgood Wrote:  Correct me if I'm wrong, but one of the main concepts of game is that girls prefer assholes. Nice guys don't get pussy. You have to be aloof, distant, and pretend they mean nothing to you or you won't get anywhere with them.

Where did you hear this????????

YOu're trying to be someone you're not and girls can sense this. When dudes take pua advice they start acting REALLY strange. Guys who are normally nice start acting like assholes, and are extremely incongruent with their "new self" (read: facade).

Post: #8

(08-31-2012 11:43 AM)travolta Wrote:  

(08-31-2012 06:06 AM)allgood Wrote:  Correct me if I'm wrong, but one of the main concepts of game is that girls prefer assholes. Nice guys don't get pussy. You have to be aloof, distant, and pretend they mean nothing to you or you won't get anywhere with them.

Where did you hear this????????

YOu're trying to be someone you're not and girls can sense this. When dudes take pua advice they start acting REALLY strange. Guys who are normally nice start acting like assholes, and are extremely incongruent with their "new self" (read: facade).

Where did I hear this, I've been reading variations of it in too many threads to count. "Be an asshole". "Be a dickhead". "Don't be yourself".

I've also noticed it in real life. Every ONS I ever had was because I was being an inconsiderate asshole, rather than being myself.

When you're nice to a girl, she walks. When you're an asshole, she's drawn to you. However I'm in Eastern Europe so I obviously need to calibrate myself better to the local culture or even unlearn everything I learned over the years in Toronto.

Post: #9

It's all about congruence. Roissy (or Heartiste) made a post on this a while ago. In order to be the asshole that girls love, you have to come from a place of not caring. You are an asshole because that's who you are.

What you're doing is being a caring asshole. You say certain things to get a reaction out of the girls. By contrast, what you should be doing is being an uncaring asshole. You say and do certain things just because that's who you are.

Obviously, that jump is hard to make, and believe me, I've tried it out before. You need to be congruent for it to work.

Post: #10

(08-31-2012 06:06 AM)allgood Wrote:  Correct me if I'm wrong, but one of the main concepts of game is that girls prefer assholes. Nice guys don't get pussy. You have to be aloof, distant, and pretend they mean nothing to you or you won't get anywhere with them.

you will look like a massive tool if you're still in try-hard stage.

beside, this notion of assholes win is just wattered down rationalization easy enough for massed to understand. it's not like girls really want assholes or dickheads but they DO want a guy who doesn't give a fuck. the non needy guy with strong boundaries, character, charisma, a guy who is just solid and who she can count on. you can be nice no problem, being nice is ok, basically everything is ok if it comes from the right place. if you're cool you can open door and bless the bitch all the time and it's all good. the whole point is.. WHO is doing that.

(08-31-2012 06:06 AM)allgood Wrote:  My drink is finished so it's time for another one..

i'd stay with her here and flirt more. why need another drink right away?

(08-31-2012 06:06 AM)allgood Wrote:  Minutes pass... I start thinking about game and how I can improve my chances with this bartender..Into my head comes the 'asshole' concept.

here you got inside your head too much, you started to care too much, you got too invested emotionally here and that initiated downward spiral, you fell back into scarcity mode which you expressed with your behaviour. instead of just focusing on the girl who liked you and moving interaction forward like you did until this point you started worrying about theory shit.

analysis paralysis. good example of concerning with "appearing needy". i mean sure it's good you're aware of this thing but in the end, the slightest concern with "appearing" this or that way to the girl is kiss of death because it gets you to micromanage others perception of you.. and this is great example of how well that shit ends.

look, you got girl with you, all it took was to talk/flirt more then and there and move it forward as far as possible. you were on the right track. who gives a fuck what might "appear needy", it was going well and you dropped the ball just to follow the theory.

(08-31-2012 06:06 AM)allgood Wrote:  Does anyone have any suggestions as to what, if anything, I should do next. It's a good lounge, and I want to go back there - what should I say to this bartender next time I see her? Anything? Should I turn my back and pretend she doesn't exist?

chit chat casually with her if she's free at the time. don't acknowledge that she didn't recognize you and don't address any kind of stuff between you both. understand that while you post of forums thinking about what to do with her she doesn't think about you at all. shit, she didn't even remembered you before when she passed you like a stranger. treat her like a random bartender girl.

why you give a fuck. she wasn't mean, she owes you nothing. meet more girls, focus on the ones who like you and you will be good.

Post: #11

(08-31-2012 12:18 PM)CtrlAltElite Wrote:  It's all about congruence. Roissy (or Heartiste) made a post on this a while ago. In order to be the asshole that girls love, you have to come from a place of not caring. You are an asshole because that's who you are.

What you're doing is being a caring asshole. You say certain things to get a reaction out of the girls. By contrast, what you should be doing is being an uncaring asshole. You say and do certain things just because that's who you are.

Obviously, that jump is hard to make, and believe me, I've tried it out before. You need to be congruent for it to work.

Ding ding ding. The problem isn't that you're being an asshole, it's that you're being reactive. Girls will respond to your being a dick when they sense that you're doing it because you truly do not give a fuck what they think of you. Once you internalize that mindset, all the cocky-funny, aloofness and other shit comes really easily because it reflects your true attitude toward the girls you game. If you don't have that attitude, it's very hard to run asshole game without looking like you're invested in how the girl responds (because you are).

It's kind of a fine line to walk because you do need to care about getting laid to an extent in order to make yourself do approaches, but you can overcome this with an abundance mentality--if this particular girl doesn't like my game it's no big deal because I'll never run out of girls to approach. That way you keep approaching because you do want to get laid, but you could still care less what any individual girl thinks of how you act around her.

Or maybe the problem is just that you're in a foreign culture where women don't respond to this type of game. Not having any experience in Eastern Europe I can't speak to that directly, but it seems like a number of guys here have noticed something similar so that's something to consider as well.

Post: #12

I've found I get the best results-meaning have the most girls chasing and banging me- when my behavior alternates between nice guy and asshole and does so in a random, unpredictable way.

However, this is not anything I plan to do; i just go about doing what i need to do to fulfill my needs and desires.

When I take hours or days to respond to their texts or don't respond at all, or never call them, or show up late, or flake, or cut things short, or don't put up with their bullshit, or see other girls and hide it from them (or don't hide it), or say smartass remarks to them, or treat them like they're no big deal and replaceable-it's really not an act. I'm not trying to hurt their feelings-I'm just living my life.

And when I want to be nice to them, I am

The difference between the caring and the uncaring asshole is real; girls are very perceptive at recognizing guys who are acting out of spite, bitterness, and anger, and guys who are just confident and have such an abundance of female attention they don't have to treat any one girl as a special princess.

Post: #13

(08-31-2012 06:06 AM)allgood Wrote:  Correct me if I'm wrong, but one of the main concepts of game is that girls prefer assholes.

This is wrong. Who told you this???

It's true that most women in the western world don't want a "pushover", but in most other parts of the world being a nice guy generally is not a game killer.

Your first mistake was this..You applied American style game to an European woman. If you had been following Roosh's tales from Europe, then you would have known that he adjusted his style into a more "confident beta" way of dealing with women.

Your second mistake was, well, actually, everything goes back to the first mistake. The bartender was giving you attention, she was sitting and talking with you, and you left for 30 minutes and went and hung out with another girl. That was dumb.

You took the word "asshole" to literal. Game is all about calibration. It all a shade of grey, like the chicks say.

Post: #14

(09-04-2012 02:43 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

(08-31-2012 06:06 AM)allgood Wrote:  Correct me if I'm wrong, but one of the main concepts of game is that girls prefer assholes.

This is wrong. Who told you this???

It's true that most women in the western world don't want a "pushover", but in most other parts of the world being a nice guy generally is not a game killer.

Your first mistake was this..You applied American style game to an European woman. If you had been following Roosh's tales from Europe, then you would have known that he adjusted his style into a more "confident beta" way of dealing with women.

Your second mistake was, well, actually, everything goes back to the first mistake. The bartender was giving you attention, she was sitting and talking with you, and you left for 30 minutes and went and hung out with another girl. That was dumb.

You took the word "asshole" to literal. Game is all about calibration. It all a shade of grey, like the chicks say.

That's real talk right there. Leaving after thirty minutes for another girl just sounds spiteful. It's ok to actually build a real connection. What do you think wins...the guy who pushes all of her buttons yet gives her the attention in a non-needy fashion or the guy who pushes all of her buttons, then goes and pushes another chick's buttons?

Honestly I find the best way to play it is to be the guy they expect to be an asshole. Don't give too much yet always keep it close to the holster that you can dish it out if they act wacky. It's more not being a pushover and that you *can* be a real dick if they act out of turn.

Post: #15

Yes to above.

If you give her all your attention but she wants your attention she'll be obsessed with you. you'll be her "superman". She'll touch you and pinch you and ask you of you're real, she'll be unable to control herself. She'll say you're too good to be true.

Of course, you are too good to be true since you've just been playing a game.

Post: #16

(09-04-2012 02:43 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

(08-31-2012 06:06 AM)allgood Wrote:  Correct me if I'm wrong, but one of the main concepts of game is that girls prefer assholes.

This is wrong. Who told you this???

It's true that most women in the western world don't want a "pushover", but in most other parts of the world being a nice guy generally is not a game killer.

Your first mistake was this..You applied American style game to an European woman. If you had been following Roosh's tales from Europe, then you would have known that he adjusted his style into a more "confident beta" way of dealing with women.

Your second mistake was, well, actually, everything goes back to the first mistake. The bartender was giving you attention, she was sitting and talking with you, and you left for 30 minutes and went and hung out with another girl. That was dumb.

You took the word "asshole" to literal. Game is all about calibration. It all a shade of grey, like the chicks say.

Ok, I get it now. A lot of posts, in a lot of threads, in the forum and on the main website, and on other sites, and actual experience, led me to believe that women want assholes rather than nice guys. I am quite sure they do in North America - being nice is a complete turnoff to them. I was starting to get results by being an inconsiderate asshole back home but I will now abandon that tactic in Europe. No joke - back home, the minute you show them you're a nice guy and you respect them as a person and want to spend time with them, you can actually watch as their expression changes from mild interest to disgust. So now that I'm here where women are different I'll work on getting those images out of my head.

Yes I did miss some of the finer details and a lot of this information, if you can even remember it when you need to, gets mixed up and processed wrong when you're out in the field. There's a ton of information to memorize. I have some bad habits to unlearn at the same time. You basically have to become someone else.

Yes in hindsight, what I did there was completely stupid. I agree.

Post: #17

I'm very skeptical of the idea that Croatian girls don't really like asshole game. Before getting into the game, I've been a (confident) nice guy there for almost a decade, and the grand result was 0 bangs, 0 kisses, 2 dates and 7-8 numbers. Don't be fooled into thinking that it is very different from USA - a bit softer yes, but still very Americanized. You can't compare it to Poland, Czech or Ukraine.

After all, all of it was working before the "ultimate" maneuver, it was just that you screwed up by being intentionally rude for no reason. In these circles, I think that it's called "overgaming". It could have easily turned off a girl anywhere, not just here.

Post: #18

(09-07-2012 04:34 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  I'm very skeptical of the idea that Croatian girls don't really like asshole game. Before getting into the game, I've been a (confident) nice guy there for almost a decade, and the grand result was 0 bangs, 0 kisses, 2 dates and 7-8 numbers. Don't be fooled into thinking that it is very different from USA - a bit softer yes, but still very Americanized. You can't compare it to Poland, Czech or Ukraine.

After all, all of it was working before the "ultimate" maneuver, it was just that you screwed up by being intentionally rude for no reason. In these circles, I think that it's called "overgaming". It could have easily turned off a girl anywhere, not just here.

I haven't been to those other places. My impressions of Croatia are: the women are way more approachable than the ones in the Anglosphere are. I've hit on a few of them here and even when I make a mistake by approaching a girl who has no interest in meeting me, she's still polite. Compare that to hitting on a couple of Icelandic girls from London the other night, with a Croatian wingman. They were off-the-charts rude to us. I've had the pleasure of meeting plenty of girls with that MO before, so I wasn't that surprised, but my wing was. He took it hard and started freaking out on them before I got him out of there. Apparently Croatian men aren't used to such rudeness from their women. The only reason we approached them was because he insisted they were Croatian. He even bet me a large sum of money that they were. He was wrong.

Your results are exactly what I would expect from being a nice guy, even here. Being confident helps of course but I think you also have to be somewhat aggressive. I'm working on one now - have seen her around a few times - started off aloof, wasn't getting anywhere, so I started getting more physically aggressive, using a lot of kino on her, hardly any talking. I will turn my back and talk to other people while she's there, and will even get up and go hang out with another group of people. And she's still interested. I'm not being a blatant asshole like in my earlier example, but am simply demonstrating that I have places to go and people to see. I don't think hanging around her like a loyal puppy dog works anywhere in the world. You have to chase them a little, then get them to chase you a little. This one won't come to my apartment yet, but she clearly wants to, and she will, soon...

Post: #19

Ok, I finally got my Croatian flag :-))
The one I mentioned in my last post came over last night.

She's a Croatian cougar. Doesn't speak English.

How did I get her? For starters there was a mutual attraction right off the bat. But that happens all the time. You don't get automatic results from a mutual attraction - you still have to work on her. Here's what I did...

Since I don't speak more than a couple dozen words in Croatian and she can't speak English, I could have given up, but instead I just tried to be physical with her and use lots of kino and body language. (First I tried being aloof and having a conversation like normal but quickly realized that wasn't going to work in this case.) If she needs to say something to me she says it through any bilingual person who's around. And vice versa for me. But I actually wasn't interested in talking with her; I wanted to see if I could work around that and just get right to the point. So instead of getting bogged down in conversation, I totally skipped that part and built up physical attraction with her. I would feel her up while she was talking to somebody else.. a couple of times I picked her up, swung her around, that sort of thing. Pulled her into an alley away from her friends, threw her up against a wall and made out with her; she liked that. I never asked her permission to do anything, I just did it.

And I was not being an asshole while with her in public, but I didn't sit there like a loyal puppy dog either. I'd go hang out with random people - briefly, not too long, like I did in my original example. Just enough so she wouldn't get bored by my presence - this is a real danger, I've found. You sit there too long with them, and they lose interest. Maybe I need better conversational skills, or maybe I have been neglecting the kino and that's the problem... it's probably a combination of the two - anyway, heavy kino sans conversation worked on this one. Maybe it will work on others as well.

(I actually came up with this after speaking with XXL and reading some of his material; he has a similar strategy. I've just started using it with some modifications to fit my personality better, so I don't look like I'm putting on an act.)

So from now on I'm going to try and incorporate more heavy kino right from the beginning, even if we can verbally communicate. IMHO talking to women is an obstacle course and can take you away from your ultimate goal.