Post: #51

Post: #52

(02-02-2019 10:49 AM)Easy_C Wrote:  

(02-02-2019 10:31 AM)porscheguy Wrote:  If the Democrats keep pushing Kamala Harris, you’re going to see a lot more black republicans this time around.

No you won't.

It may not be as simple as black and white (Euro v. African). Black woman hurt African-American men's dignity too in the IdPol game.

Post: #53

This thread if you go back through it is a perfect example of why in order to court black votes (and other minorities to a lesser degree) the Right would have to compromise itself beyond the point where it even remained functional.

What's one of the most common things you hear when you get into a debate about any form of racial issue in politics?

"Well no wonder (my) people don't vote for you when you say bad things about them!"

The message becomes clear very quickly.

"We are a prize to be won, and you have to feed, water and protect our sacred cows if you want that prize".

This is why individual blacks like Candace Owens get a shitload more publicity than some random white cunt saying the same thing. She is "the prize" the Republican party wants to win, but unfortunately that little game of make-me-a-princess doesn't work on a large scale for the entire demographic.

For whites politics is not really about getting your ass kissed. It's a means to a political end. Party X promises one thing and party Y promises another, and other than generic platitudes about "hard working citizens!" nobody is being held in special esteem above any other demographic. You decide what you want and vote for it, and even if you voted Democrat for example as a white minority in that party nobody pats you on the back or holds a parade for you or really gives a shit.

You're not the prize. The democratic outcome is the prize.

But not for people on the dim end of the lumen count. For them the ass-kissing is the prize and whatever comes after it is a secondary concern at best.

This phenomenon was seen starkly during 2016 where minority "conservatives" started trying to police speech well beyond their representative right to do so because it was clear that they felt their rare, unicorn status as non-white conservatives merited special treatment. "If you want to convince me and people like me to vote for your party then you better stroke my ego or at least give my sacred cows a wide berth."

Trouble with that idea is that other than becoming a cuck you lose the mandate to fix the problems you were never allowed to talk about. To court even 25 measly percent of the black vote in America a conservative candidate would have to pander to them so hard that even if he won he would never be able to touch any of the issues plaguing American blacks because he'd have already proclaimed them to be the greatest people in the world with no faults whatsoever who's problems were all derived from malevolent outside forces.

Truth leading to solutions.

Ego-stroking to court self-obsessed voters.

Choose one.

p.s. If option one is no longer a viable election strategy then your country is done. Move or prepare for secession or civil war.

Post: #54

(02-03-2019 07:54 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  To court even 25 measly percent of the black vote in America a conservative candidate would have to pander to them so hard that even if he won he would never be able to touch any of the issues plaguing American blacks because he'd have already proclaimed them to be the greatest people in the world with no faults whatsoever who's problems were all derived from malevolent outside forces.

You make many valid points. The key, however, is to convince African-Americans that Republicans will improve their lives while convincing the existing white Republican base that the party will not sell out its principles of liberty. It is a tricky balancing act that requires win-win situations, but it can be done.

For example, Republicans will always lose by trying to lure African-Americans with some form of welfare, because the leftists will always offer even more welfare in order to keep African-Americans on the generational welfare plantation as voter-slaves.

Republicans must offer African-Americans things such as charter schools, which align with party principles, offer black children a brighter future, empower black parents, and undermine the generational welfare plantation system. It can be done, but it poses a very fine line. It requires African-Americans to accept the red pill, i.e., to realize that they live on a perpetual welfare plantation and to see the value of things such as charter schools, which will lift their children from generational poverty.

Charter schools are a classic wedge issue. When you compare the graduation rates and college acceptance rates from charter schools versus typical public ghetto schools, the choice becomes obvious. If President Trump were wise, he would hammer on the value of charter schools (and parent empowerment) versus the soul-killing welfare system (simply discussing the proven statistics of graduation rates and college acceptance rates from charter schools would suffice).

Post: #55

You cannot offer a future solution without inferring a current failure.

You cannot infer a current failure without hurting feels.

You cannot hurt their feels and get their votes.

It's really that simple. What happens when someone asks you "why are the white kids doing OK without fancy charter schools!?"



I understand what you're thinking is, TG. I was there myself for many years. But eventually if you pay attention you get old enough to see that outreach just doesn't work. Between the person telling them "we need to make a change" and the person telling them "all your problems are because of other people's racism" they will choose the second person at 90% rates, election over election over election.

No amount of evidence ever changed that, and no amount of evidence ever will.

Post: #56

(02-03-2019 11:56 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  It's really that simple. What happens when someone asks you "why are the white kids doing OK without fancy charter schools!?"

White kids from poor areas are not doing OK. What would possibly make you think that? You must be from outside the U.S., because this is very well-known in the U.S. The benefits of charter schools apply to all poor children, not just to poor black children (and even to middle-class children living in poor areas). Your black/white binary thinking is a big part of the problem.

Poor education is primarily a poor parenting issue that, in turn, stems from broken homes. The key to charter schools is that they demand high standards from both parents and students. Parents proactively petition to have their children placed in charter schools -- and they know that if they or their children fail to do their part, there is a waiting list of eager parents waiting to replace their child with a student who wants to learn.

In other words, it is accountability (from the school administration, the teachers, the parents, and the students) that drive the results. A big part of the success of charter schools is the ability to demand results and to expel disruptive or non-performing students (who do not want to learn) from the school, which is rarely a problem because such schools attract poor goal-oriented parents and students in the first place.

This is not speculation. Existing graduation rates and college acceptance rates from charter schools bear this out. It is just a matter of replicating this success throughout the U.S., which is currently stymied by liberal politicians and the union-run public school systems.

Outreach is irrelevant. You simply create the freedom and opportunity that produces the results -- and the people (of whatever color) who truly love their children will flock to you.

Post: #57

Well we're going to have to agree to disagree that it will sell with anyone other than the slim minority that votes R anyway.

You haven't managed to grasp the mentality these people bring to the table. When you start talking about charter schools and graduation rates they get distracted. Then the guy on the other side of the stage shouts "there's nothing wrong with your kids, it's the racism inherent in the system that's holding them back!" and they'll eat it up without a second thought.

I may not be in the US but I pay a lot of attention to history because it helps me predict what's coming next, suffice to say there's no evidence whatsoever that your approach would work. There's a reason that R candidates don't bother much with campaigning for the black vote and it's not because those candidates are racist or stupid. They are simply well aware that they would be wasting their time.

And you're welcome to back up your claims that poor white kids and poor black kids suffer equal outcomes. My research indicates that poor white kids have higher literacy and less criminal outcomes but since you made the claim you can do the digging. We are past the point where racial-blank-slate theorists and post-tribalists can presume themselves correct. 50 years of history say I'm right on this. Prove me wrong.

Post: #58

I once heard an observation that each race seems to have a primary religious emotion, one which differs from all the others. For Whites, it's guilt; for Asians, shame; for Blacks, ego.

You can see this is men like Pastor Manning. How does he communicate Christ's message to his younger brethren? "A real man is a man of God, he ain't standing on the street corner with brand new Nikes!" He sells them true ego/status, and degrades the false-status of being a gangsta. Imagine if the Republicans could figure this out?

Post a few campaign ads, not for the candidate, but portraying "Goofus and Gallant": the Black democrat voter, with a nagging baby mama, getting busted for slinging drugs, and making excuses - while the Black republican voter winds up with a hot girlfriend, an important job, and a nice car. Then you see them on poll day, the democrat dressed like a fool, while the republican voter is dressed like a boss. That would sway a lot of voters if it was put out there consistently.

Not that it will be. They are the stupid party, after all.

Post: #59

(02-04-2019 05:33 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  You haven't managed to grasp the mentality these people bring to the table. When you start talking about charter schools and graduation rates they get distracted. Then the guy on the other side of the stage shouts "there's nothing wrong with your kids, it's the racism inherent in the system that's holding them back!" and they'll eat it up without a second thought.

You do not know to whom you are talking. I have attended meetings where I have received death threats from African-American Democrats, with the same morons yelling "Oreo" (meaning black on the outside and white on the inside) at black conservative Republicans. I have seen the hatred, and the complete absence of all logic and reason, through first-hand experience. I have also worked with a number of fine black conservative men who see the value of hard-work and self-discipline as exemplified by the Republican Party platform.

(02-04-2019 05:33 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  I may not be in the US but I pay a lot of attention to history because it helps me predict what's coming next

We agree 100% on this point, which is why my goal over the past decade has been to diversify my assets over four continents in multiple countries. I am a student of history, I can see the handwriting on the wall, and I am taking proactive measures to survive and thrive during the Great Reset.

Despite our disagreement on this issue, I am probably far more pessimistic than you. Based on political history in the U.S., I am simply pointing out one of the very few ways that Republicans could peel off 20%-25% or so of the black vote, which is all the Republican Party really needs to achieve a semi-permanent majority, if it were smart enough to do so.

(02-04-2019 05:33 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  There's a reason that R candidates don't bother much with campaigning for the black vote and it's not because those candidates are racist or stupid. They are simply well aware that they would be wasting their time.

I agree. Again, I simply pointed out one of the very few win-win situations by which it could be done.

(02-04-2019 05:33 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  And you're welcome to back up your claims that poor white kids and poor black kids suffer equal outcomes. My research indicates that poor white kids have higher literacy and less criminal outcomes but since you made the claim you can do the digging.

This is a red herring argument. I never claimed "that poor white kids and poor black kids suffer equal outcomes." What I actually said was that "White kids from poor areas are not doing OK" compared to their wealthier peers, which is true.

Studies have shown that African-American men, as a group, have very poor impulse control, which explains the disproportionate amount of violent crimes committed by African-American men, especially murders. The last numbers that I recall seeing were that African-American men represented only about six percent of the U.S. population, but commit roughly 43% of all murders (mostly black-on-black murders). That is a truly shocking statistic that should galvanize the African-American community into action through sheer outrage, but which it completely ignores in favor of marching against police officers (both black and white) who, with a few rare exceptions, are simply doing their jobs.

Yes, "poor white kids have higher literacy and less criminal outcomes" than poor blacks, but it has little to do with the educational system -- and much to do with the cultural difference of poor impulse control (as a group). People understate the importance of cultural differences and the things that different cultures prize. For example, the La Raza crowd always bemoans the loss of upper-California in the Mexican-American War. But if Mexico had retained upper-California, it would be just as poor, corrupt, and dysfunctional as the rest of Mexico (because of Mexican culture). The same goes for people who try to flee to another part of their country to change their lives. It does not work, because their inner dysfunction travels with them.

Just as an individual must confront his own inner dysfunction before he can improve his life, African-Americans must confront the problems with their culture if they wish to make a permanent positive change. I do not see this happening any time soon. Instead, I see further burgeoning violence (including group political violence), which is a core part of their culture which they steadfastly refuse to repudiate.

Post: #60

(10-02-2012 01:28 PM)Excelsior Wrote:  The words "black" and "Republican" (in the modern sense, anyway) really shouldn't go together in a sentence. When they do, the result (a black republican**) is usually less than ideal.
Exhibit A: Allen West
**: Trust me, I used to be one.

I used to be a left leaning Democrat. I used to work for them in campaigns and even ran once as a candidate.

I'm going to be blunt with you. Black male liberals are absolute cunts. The first time I ever met a black man that was conservative... the guy bowled me over with his intelligence and charisma. I worked with Republicans for maybe 2 years... and I understand why black folks get nervous at the idea of voting for them. They generally take a white cultural approach to solving every problem. They don't understand how police interact in minority communities. As a party they simply don't get it.

Anyone who really cared about the black community would be championing an independent party that would focus specifically on the needs of black americans. They should endorse and vote only for candidates that support the policies that black americans want.

With that said... most of african descended people living in the US have some dumb fucking ideas about how to organize a society and business... and have too much of a racist ax to grind, so they will never leave the Democrats in my lifetime. The one thing that could potentially change that is Charter Schools where intelligent and conservative black men teach the students instead of liberal white women. Actually read a study where black kids test score performance increase 300% when replacing white women teachers with black male teachers. It is my pet theory that allowing teachers to have no expectations of kids and treat them like genetically inferior retards is the key driver here.

I'm going to end my comments by saying that my experience working with black male conservative candidates is by far the best of any politicians I have ever met.

Post: #61

(02-04-2019 01:32 PM)EndsExpect Wrote:  I worked with Republicans for maybe 2 years... and I understand why black folks get nervous at the idea of voting for them. They generally take a white cultural approach to solving every problem. They don't understand how police interact in minority communities. As a party they simply don't get it.

I actually agreed with your entire post, except for this portion. So, human nature being what it is, I must nit-pick it. Republicans understand exactly how and why police interact in minority communities. As a police officer, ignoring the cultural differences of poor impulse control (as a group) in minority communities will get you killed. Rather than elaborate on this point from the perspective of a white man who has read the studies that prove this point, I will simply quote the Reverend Jesse Jackson:

Quote:"There is nothing more painful to me at this stage in my life than to walk down the street and hear footsteps... then turn around and see somebody white and feel relieved."

https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/5978-th...this-stage


I would argue that it is not Republicans (or whites) that do not understand why police interact the way that they do in minority communities, but the minority communities themselves who do know -- and who turn away from the painful truth.

If a group of black men in Africa encounter a pride of lions and a herd of zebras, will they treat the two groups the same? If not, why would the police (in any country) treat all groups of people the same while policing, despite their different propensities for crime and violence? [For example, Gypsies are treated quite differently by the police in much of Europe.]

Believe me, I can understand the pain of being treated as part of a group rather than an individual. But whose fault is that -- the group (which should be policing itself) or the police officers who simply want to live another day to make it home to their families?

Post: #62

(02-04-2019 02:44 PM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  

(02-04-2019 01:32 PM)EndsExpect Wrote:  I worked with Republicans for maybe 2 years... and I understand why black folks get nervous at the idea of voting for them. They generally take a white cultural approach to solving every problem. They don't understand how police interact in minority communities. As a party they simply don't get it.

I actually agreed with your entire post, except for this portion. So, human nature being what it is, I must nit-pick it. Republicans understand exactly how and why police interact in minority communities. As a police officer, ignoring the cultural differences of poor impulse control (as a group) in minority communities will get you killed. Rather than elaborate on this point from the perspective of a white man who has read the studies that prove this point, I will simply quote the Reverend Jesse Jackson:
I would argue that it is not Republicans (or whites) that do not understand why police interact the way that they do in minority communities, but the minority communities themselves who do know -- and who turn away from the painful truth
If a group of black men in Africa encounter a pride of lions and a herd of zebras, will they treat the two groups the same? If not, why would the police (in any country) treat all groups of people the same while policing, despite their different propensities for crime and violence? [For example, Gypsies are treated quite differently by the police in much of Europe.]
Believe me, I can understand the pain of being treated as part of a group rather than an individual. But whose fault is that -- the group (which should be policing itself) or the police officers who simply want to live another day to make it home to their families?

Low impulse control? You literally sound just like an out of touch white Republican.

You need to step outside of your own head and consider the position of a community that had to live in constant fear of the authorities for 200 years. That shit doesn't just go away over night.

What the majority of black voters want is to be treated JUST LIKE WHITE PEOPLE. Sure there are some pricks that want superior treatment and reparations or whatever... but most just want the same shit everyone else does. So, when you go saying they have "low impulse control", even if you can back it up with statistics, it feels like racist bullshit. I think it probably is racist bullshit on some level.

If you look around the world and even back in history. Most minority communities living in an area where many of the majority tribe is hostile become hostile themselves to the rule of law. They don't feel like the society around them is "theirs" nor do they feel like the laws are there to protect them. Remember that Democrats make their living stoking the flames of resentment and convincing folks that the system hates them. They get indoctrinated in this shit from birth. There is a reason it's gotten worse since liberals took over education... and it's also why you see black kids that attend conservative black charter schools have significantly better "impulse control".... in other words lower rates of criminality.

Regarding the treating people as a group statement. That idea is why I can't stand Democrats. People are individuals and should always be treated as such! Fuck this social justice bullshit... it's evil. I urge you to reject this type of thinking.

Actually... if you want to talk about impulse control. Women have the worse impulse control of any group of people on the planet.

Post: #63

(02-06-2019 10:00 AM)EndsExpect Wrote:  ...

Regarding the treating people as a group statement. That idea is why I can't stand Democrats. People are individuals and should always be treated as such! Fuck this social justice bullshit... it's evil. I urge you to reject this type of thinking.
...

The aboriginals in central Australia have an interesting past-time. One of them will lie on the side of the road like they've been hit by a car while the other ones wait in the bushes. If a driver stops to help the aboriginal on the side of the road then the ones in the bush jump out and mob the good Samaritan.

Of course not all aboriginals do this, but no whites do this whatsoever.

So if you were driving through central Australia would your response to seeing someone lying injured on the side of the road be the same if they where white or black? Everyone should be treated as an individual after all.

Take your time.

Post: #64

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Post: #65

(02-01-2019 07:58 PM)JayMillz Wrote:  

The post that revives a 7 year old thread.

Post: #66

(02-06-2019 10:46 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  The aboriginals in central Australia have an interesting past-time. On of them will lie on the side of the road like they've been hit by a car while the other ones wait in the bushes. If a driver stops to help the aboriginal on the side of the road then the ones in the bush jump out and mob the good Samaritan.
Of course not all aboriginals do this, but no whites do this whatsoever.
So if you were driving through central Australia would your response to seeing someone lying injured on the side of the road be the same if they where white or black? Everyone should be treated as an individual after all.
Take your time.

I assume you ask this question in good faith, so I won't give you some snarky answer.

Government, and government representatives should stop to render aid no matter the risks. This is why I specifically mentioned the Democrats as a political entity. I was referencing social justice as a political entity... which is corrosive and evil.

I assume Aboriginals don't perform this little stunt with other Abos. Just because we should work towards treating everyone as individuals doesn't mean we should not recognize that other people are quite racist. Suspension of common sense is not good in any circumstances. I also assume that Aboriginals do this because they get away with it. If you tried this shit in my USA hometown it would be a gunfight and when people can shoot back these actions rarely seem as safe or beneficial.

Post: #67

(02-06-2019 10:00 AM)EndsExpect Wrote:  So, when you go saying they have "low impulse control", even if you can back it up with statistics, it feels like racist bullshit. I think it probably is racist bullshit on some level.

Feelings? Emotions? If you do not rely on logic and reason, then you have already lost the argument (even if you do not realize it).

(02-06-2019 10:00 AM)EndsExpect Wrote:  Regarding the treating people as a group statement. That idea is why I can't stand Democrats. People are individuals and should always be treated as such! Fuck this social justice bullshit... it's evil. I urge you to reject this type of thinking.

No, people should only be treated as an individual once you have established that they are not a threat. For example, felons are a group -- and they should be treated as a group, i.e., the loss of the right to vote, the loss of their second Amendment rights, and more scrutiny by the police, employers, and the public at large. A felon can rehabilitate himself by his actions and by proving to society that he no longer poses a threat.

As a matter of logic and reason, there is absolutely nothing wrong with discrimination in itself. Discrimination can be rational and intelligent. It is often necessary. It is just a matter of what you are basing your discrimination on (logic and experience versus ignorance, blind hatred, or unjustified prejudice).

You have to discriminate between things that will help you and things that will hurt you. And that can include other groups or even other people. It is a genetic trait to be more favorably inclined towards people like yourself.

Tribes usually identify themselves as "their people" and initially see everyone else is a potential enemy. It makes sense to recognize this reality. Different ethnic and religious groups have different beliefs, customs, and ethics. Until you can get to know them as individuals it makes sense to generalize and to take precautions.

For example, police officers must recognize these realities if they wish to survive, which explains why even black and Hispanic police officers will police differently in minority communities. In fact, minority police officers know better than anyone else that they must police differently in minority communities and that the threat levels are different, because different beliefs, customs, and ethics exist in those communities.

Nothing that I have stated here should be the least bit controversial. The Reverend Jesse Jackson himself acknowledged the difference between groups when he stated: "There is nothing more painful to me at this stage in my life than to walk down the street and hear footsteps... then turn around and see somebody white and feel relieved."

Just as men should eventually see big red flags that tell them that their problems are not necessarily caused by other people but that they need to work on their own inner game, the African-American community needs to look inward and take proactive steps to fix and heal their own culture. Sadly, nothing much will change until that happens.

Post: #68

I was almost going to not respond to this with an unpopular view, but here goes.

Talking to American conservatives and Republicans about outreach to minority groups (specifically Black Americans) turns into a tit-for-tat argument where conservatives talk about their grievances and blacks talk about their grievances. It's like arguing with a brick wall and nothing gets accomplished. I pretty much see the same arguments on sacrificing values or turning into your enemy from American conservatives constantly.

It's simply a matter of showing up and asking for votes. No one's asking you to become a Democrat or give better handouts, voters just simply want to hear what you have to say. You're just listening to what you want to hear about stereotypes of minorities. Liberals show up year-round whereas conservatives just show up on election day or never at all.

It's more complicated with Republicans and Black Americans because of the past 50 years when Republicans lost any credibility on civil rights while nominating a candidate for President who opposed the 1964 Civil Rights Act. It destroyed the effort of most of them voting for the act and created a resentment of the GOP that lasts to this day. Obama made it worse with how some conservatives mocked him.

Frankly, I don't see Amercian conservatives getting out of their comfort zone anytime soon. Trump reached out to a lot of groups Republicans generally wrote during election time.

If you don't believe me, read the comments in the link for the article.

American Conservatives Love Outreach (Sarcasm)

I don't take Rod Dreher seriously because he's a status quo supporter and railed againist Trump.

Plus, Republicans never bother to reach out or build party leadership for minority groups because Democrats have consistenly dehumanized their efforts as tokenism whereas if Democrats did that, they'd get praised. Republicans are damned if they do, damned if they don't in regards to outreach and diversity, that is the reality.

Hope you all have a good night.

Post: #69

A man like Clinton with a modern spin could run as a Republican these days. Throw in more criminal justice reform, run to the left of Harris on that issue. Gillibrand is toast among men of any color. There are enough common interests among whites and blacks especially in the swing States. Pick and choose your issues carefully and then offer conservative ideas.
Imagine a map where Democrats give ex felons their voting rights back, but then stab themselves in the back on the issue of Criminal Justice Reform. A lot of men instinctually recognize that the problems with the family courts, child support, and use of Criminal Justice to collect debt are exacerbated or created by progressives.