Post: #1

I want to sic the RVF hivemind on the issue of boring girls. This is more a certain type of girl than a girl who is boring. And there's plenty of girls who are boring without being this type. I think this is a large percentage of girls, but it may not be a large percentage of girls who you usually interacting with in pick-up.

Now, I've been out of the game for a while (fuck-buddy for reliable sex, too busy with my career to go out much), but I imagine my background is similar to a lot of you guys. I was nerdy growing up. In college, I would usually become interested in really smart, interesting, spunky girls who a lot of guys would chase. I would usually get friend-zoned without really even knowing it. Then I discovered game, and developed good nightgame in a college town. I did well with pretty college girls who were interesting and smart, but not as interesting or smart as the girls who put me in the friend-zone. Still, they made it easy for me to game them by giving IOI's and rolling with my game.

I'm in a new town and not back in the game, but I'm trying to build up my social circle. I've noticed that most girls are not like either type of girls that I mentioned above. I'm also older now. There's nothing really wrong with these girls, but they certainly don't make it easy for guys to approach them. Here are some characteristics of them:

1. They don't interact with many men in their day-to-day lives. They're mostly around women. They either work at paper-pushing jobs or in the caring professions.

2. They're often close to their family. Too close, even. It's as if there's no room for a guy in their lives.

3. They have a tight circle of girl friends and none of them really know how to date. And they don't really know how to be into a guy without their friends' approval. So, they don't individually decide that they like a guy, but rather their entire friend group decides that they like that guy and all of them go after him at once. The times that this has happened to me has been more weird than flattering.

4. Their circle of friends is insular and often hasn't changed in years. They may even hate half of their friends. But this gives them a really skewed view of their social skills. They're not good at making new friends but they think they're socially adept because they have a full social calendar with the same people.

5. When they do get interested in a guy, they sometimes approach him from a "dreamer" point-of-view. It's not like they think "this guy might be interesting, I should get to know him better and see how things work out" but rather they come up with an entire relationship in their head and when the guy doesn't fit the ideal, they move on immediately. Often these girls will make a huge investment early on but once their dream is shattered, they have no problem forgetting about him.

6. They're often attractive (7-8 range), but they're certainly not hot. In fact, they don't give off a sexual vibe. On facebook, these girls might post a picture of themselves where they look pretty good and there will be nothing but comments from their girl friends about how beautiful they are. A lot of girls who are better with guys will at least have some beta orbiter commenting.

7. They don't even have beta orbiters. Even the betas move on and realize this girl isn't a good prospect. They can't even string a guy along.

8. They're probably not riding the cock carousel. In fact, they even have trouble recognizing game. They don't send out IOI's. If they go out to bars, they don't make themselves approachable there.

9. They don't approach things from the point of view of mastery. This is very different from guys and makes it hard to relate to these girls even on the basis of mutual interests. Let me try to explain. Take a guy who wants to get good at running. He'll find a running group and look up the times for each of the pace groups. Then he'll go out, run by himself to make sure his time is good enough for a particular pace group. Then he goes to the running group. Soon he'll get a heart rate monitor and get hints from guys who know how to run. These girls on the other hand will decide that it'd be fun to do a 5k, go out running with their friends where the important thing is that everyone feels included. After a year, they've done a bunch of 5k's and have an eleven-minute mile. So when a girl says she's into running, it's very different from when a guy says that. In fact, the girl may find the guy's interest in running obsessive and weird. Moreover, a lot of these girls simply do not understand what it means to be good at something. They don't understand that a perfectly decent runner, say who has a 7:30 pace is not going to win any races, but his time represents not just some inborn ability but real effort, discipline, and knowledge. Sometimes I don't think that they see the difference as anything other than one of time and that the faster time isn't even necessarily better. Achievement only matters to them when it's been translated into status.

10. They're not desperate but sometimes they marry very quickly. They turn 25, move to a new town, are separated from the family and friends, and then they start seriously dating the first acceptable guy.

I suspect a lot of the girls with generic online dating profiles are like this. They don't realize that they need to give guys something to work with. And they haven't developed their interests in a way that makes them interesting and appreciative of the interests of others. So quality guys probably don't pay them much attention even online. So maybe they're telling the truth when they say that they can't find a good man?

Anyway, I don't have much experience with girls like this. And I don't think most guys have these girls in mind when they talk about pick-up. There is this comment of Badger's though:
http://badgerhut.wordpress.com/2012/06/0...mment-6430

I'm not sure that I'd be into girls like this. In fact, they might bore me. On the other hand, they might be great in a relationship. And there are certainly a lot of them, and learning to game them would be a great way of working up an abundance mentality.

My working assumption is that because of issues of proximity and responsiveness to game, it might be nearly impossible to game them. Instead, you can try to get their more interesting, responsive friends interested in you, and then maybe the entire clique of girls becomes interested.

Post: #2

The more they feel the need to dress "edgy" or "provacative", the more likely they are to be insecure and boring.

The more they need to trumpet trivialities, complaints, and BS about how they are strong and independent on social websites, the more boring they are.

The more they like to dress nice, smile, and laugh, the more secure they are with themselves and less likely to be boring.

Post: #3

You know, you're right. I can think of two girls that fit this description exactly. I think they're worth it - in my experience they've been a little more feminine and more likely to be up for a date that involves cooking for you and a bang...a great combo. But yeah, they are pretty boring. They seem to like games and TV and things that shift attention away from themselves but still let them sort of interact.

With both of them, my approach was super indirect, not in the traditional sense but like not even talking to them. Each time I sat next to them and talked to the other people around - dudes, women, I don't think it matters...I don't remember who they were. They seem to like to hear you with other people and decide they like you. If you start talking to them before they decide they like you, you seem to run into that problem that Joe Kay mentioned of not wanting to be approached.

This might be a nice untapped resource if we could figure out how to crack it and where to find them.

Post: #4

It sounds like you're describing the Enneagram's the Loyalist.

Post: #5

The only interesting girls I've met are the hottest girls I've met and I'm sure most of that is due to them being hot.

Post: #6

Your description is pretty accurate. Unfortunately, American girls are a lot more interesting than many Thai and Chilean girls I met who literally gossip, work, eat, and sleep. At least American girls pretend to have interests even though they might pursue them halfassedly

Post: #7

Sounds exactly 100% accurate like an average german girl.
I've to deal with those type of girls quite often. Good thing though is they aren't thaaaat flaky and just go along with you.
But they also don't initiate shit...

Post: #8

(01-01-2013 06:51 PM)Blackhawk Wrote:  It sounds like you're describing the Enneagram's the Loyalist.

I don't know that typology, but the post was inspired by a girl who was probably an ISTJ in the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator typology. My usual strategy with girls is to find a hook, something that they're excited about. So I ask value- and interest-probing questions and look for physiological changes. Like their eyes lighting up or their talking faster when they find a topic that excited them. I got nothing with this girl except for things that particularly inconvenienced her in her daily routine. It was like one of those dates that when you're not only bored by the girl, you're bored by the person that you were during it. In retrospect, I should have picked a more involving environment because she wouldn't have been able to carry the interaction.

Post: #9

(01-01-2013 03:13 PM)josephkay Wrote:  3. They have a tight circle of girl friends and none of them really know how to date. And they don't really know how to be into a guy without their friends' approval. So, they don't individually decide that they like a guy, but rather their entire friend group decides that they like that guy and all of them go after him at once. The times that this has happened to me has been more weird than flattering.

4. Their circle of friends is insular and often hasn't changed in years. They may even hate half of their friends. But this gives them a really skewed view of their social skills. They're not good at making new friends but they think they're socially adept because they have a full social calendar with the same people.

You've actually described a pretty large segment of American culture in general there. There are plenty of girls and guys I know who stayed around the area they grew up, kept most of the same friends from high school and literally have been doing the exact same shit with the same people for years on end.

As I get older and more cynical I've come to realize that most people aren't that interesting. Most of the girls I know socially through work or friends basically have no life aside from the television shows they watch and the places they go out to eat with their boyfriends.

Post: #10

@Vitriol
i concur, especially with 'most people aren't that interesting', sad but very f&cking true
i was out at a NYE party recently and most people there were friendly, nice people generally, but really with f&ck all of interest to say about anything, if i'm to be honest
out of about 15 people i spoke to (roughly half and half men and women), i can honestly say only about two of them had anything interesting to say beyond the usual bog standard chit chat
one was a friend of a friend who's into music and used to be in a band, and he had some funny stories and opinions (jesus the amount of people i meet who have no opinions on anything, or at least never express their opinions on anything, is incredible) and another dude who was from NY and was a bikram yoga instructor and again had some interesting stuff to say and a couple of funny stories too
it seems like there's people who live life(interesting people) and people who let life live them(the other mostly boring 95%)

Post: #11

When I'm in the US (usually during the summers) it shocks me how trivial the conversation is with a large percentage of girls in my age range (18-23) I'm not sure if this is due to lack of life experience or whatever, but there is just no intellectual stimulation there. Its as if there is a giant cookie cutter making identical replicas of the same boring girls. They can all tell you what happened last week on Jersey Shore but if you want their opinion on anything of value they just draw a blank.
The topic of me being English/studying in the UK comes up quite often, and I would be ashamed to say how many times girls have asked me, "So you know the queen" or "So you can speak English then" Its quite hard to find that rapidly shrinking median between ultra-educated feminists and the uneducated air-heads.

Post: #12

Most people are either lame/boring, not funny or scared to voice their opinion. Multiply that times 10 for girls.

Post: #13

If you don't like that type of girls then why waste time and energy to meet them

Post: #14

Multiply the boring factor by 10 and then square it for SE Asian girls. On the other hand some of them can be fun loving, light hearted, girly, and vivacious.

Post: #15

All girls are boring. Have you ever listened in on a group of women talking?
Try sitting in a salon on a weekend morning and you'll see what I mean.

Women are social chameleons. They want to blend in everywhere. They want to
be liked by everyone.

They're also like emotional mirrors. They're empaths. They reflect back whatever
you throw at them.

So if you find them boring it's because you can't relate to them and have
nothing interesting to talk about. Work on your game and lighten up your
personality. Learn how to project emotions in your speech. They want nothing
more than to be entertained and follow your lead.

Post: #16

I have met maybe a handful IF THAT, of girls in my life that I would say were interesting. MOST girls, rather hot or cute are just not that interesting.

I look at it more as of: Do I have FUN when hanging with this girl?

If I do then fine, I'll roll out with her etc, but I don't look to women to intellectually stimulate me. I look at them for the following: Sex, Arm Candy, Cooking, My Laundry, More Sex and oh yea More Sex. Begins and Ends.

Post: #17

I know the type of women you're speaking about. If this were 50 years ago, it wouldn't have mattered. Such women would have married off by age 20, had kids, and stayed home with them. Their social network would have seemed a lot less dysfunctional because all the things that now seem negative about it are positive when applied in the right setting.

For example, the idea of a strange man needing "group approval" makes perfect sense when it's a bunch of housewives on a street and looking after the kids in the neighborhood is their primary goal. Who wants a stranger lurking around?

The circle of friends not changing that you mention is because women used to bond over their kids and stuck together until their kids were out of the house.

As for their being boring? Well, years ago it was a woman's job to adapt to what her man wanted (not the other way around), since he was the breadwinner. Her being something of a blank slate was preferable, because if she wasn't, he'd have to shift his priorities to accommodate her priorities. Men led then, women followed.

They're "attractive, not hot" because back in 1958 attractive was hot --- before the ante got upped by every woman throwing it in your face 24/7. There was no Victoria's Secret, so "a hint of stocking" (to paraphrase an old song) was erotic. Now women practically have to have sex tapes to compete.

They don't have Beta orbiters because nice girls in the 1950s didn't lead men on like the entitled harridans of today. They don't go to bars or ride the carousel because they have an inner sense of morality, something lacking in many women today (see previous sentence).

I could go on, but my general point is that the unnatural changes foisted on society by a group of disgruntled women has disenfranchised the women you speak of just like it did to Beta males. I know women like this. I'm not interested either. But if it was the Eisenhower Era and I was looking to marry a decent woman and live in suburbia, I might be.