Post: #1

In every circle of friends, there is at least one guy who doesn't get laid. The traits of this guy can be widely different. He could be shy, he could know not how to talk to girls, he could be ugly. I found that there is no one descriptor of this guy. I run in different circles but in one of my circles, there is one guy who I know has never had a girlfriend, has never had female attention, etc. He has probably had *one* hookup with a girl that (in my opinion) was an 8. He tends to really be into technology and stuff like that and he's not a bad looking guy. It's just that girls aren't where his head is and when we go to parties, he just tends to stand there sipping on his drink. I've tried to introduce him to new girls but he's like "nah brah, I'm good".

What about you guys? Do you have any friends like this? What is he like?

Post: #2

That guy is/was me.

I think it was pretty much due to me being shy and not trusting girls at all. I had never been hurt by a girl but I always had the mentality if they like me that easily then they will like the next guy that easily. I think I have been able to get over that the past few months and just enjoy it for what it is and not look into it so much.

Post: #3

I have a friend like this, and I feel really bad for him. He's into computer science and went to one of the best engineering schools in the country. Not suprisingly, he has always been into technology and has little exposure to quality girls on a daily basis. I've never seen him talk to a girl and some of friends think he may be asexual. I've tried to help him out by suggesting pickup lines and books that can help him. But as they say you can take a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. I can't force people to be social, but if they want to do better with women, I am willing to help them out.

Post: #4

He's gay dude, no doubt about it

Post: #5

You described me for pretty much all my post-pubescent years up through college. Only difference is that I actually wanted to meet girls. I squandered all my opportunities due to extreme shyness. Shyness is something I still have to fight against even to this day(although I've come a long way since my early 20s), which is why I'm convinced that the trait is largely genetic.

Post: #6

(01-27-2013 04:19 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  You described me for pretty much all my post-pubescent years up through college. Only difference is that I actually wanted to meet girls. I squandered all my opportunities due to extreme shyness. Shyness is something I still have to fight against even to this day(although I've come a long way since my early 20s), which is why I'm convinced that the trait is largely genetic.

I agree about your shyness excerpt. I've always been shy ever since I was little and it still trickles as a big part of my personality today. Everyone I know says a comment about me being "so quiet". Sometimes it is detriment to my gaming but I'm learning how to overcome it. I'm definitely in a comfortable part of my life now where I understand the female psyche and the game and how to convey my personality to these females in a positive light.

Even as a quiet person, I understand that in order to get pussy, you simply have to try. That means doing all the little things like texting/calling her and inviting her out. Many shy people are extremely passive so it is not in their nature to "make the first move". But by not making that move, they've already eliminated their selves from even playing.

Shy people still have to make that effort to chat with women. Closed mouths don't get fed. Make your shyness a part of your game. Intrigue the women by speaking and flirting with them but still play the aloof, mysterious, quiet guy and you'll have their minds thinking about you. Too easy.

If you're not out there doing what you need to do, then you won't be getting your dick wet at all. This is so cliche but as the Nike trademark says, Just do it.

Post: #7

Shyness did it for me as well. I could socialize with guys well enough, but the fairer sex was a different matter. It wasn't that I didn't want to meet girls, but that I would just freeze up when the opportunity presented itself, and I had great difficulty, subconsciously, believing a girl would give me the time of day if I made the conversation personal and didn't just stick to neutral subjects like school. I always hoped a girl would give me an absolutely ironclad IOI, or even approach me (because if I approached and failed, gee, I might look like a cad or something and women would laugh at me 'till the end of time.) Looking back, I had dozens of opportunities with women, but I rationalized them all away: "oh, she isn't *really* into me, this is her idea of a joke, she can't possibly be serious! She likes jocks and I'm too bookish." Beyond that, I had an inability to relate to the inane pop culture of today's world, so right off the bat, easy commonalities and topics of conversation were lacking. On top of all that, because I had no experience with women, I really had no way to figure out what I wanted from them: casual sex? a girlfriend? a formal, very old-school courtship and marriage? And supposing I chose one of these, where would I find the type of girl who would be amenable? The whole matter seemed so fraught with uncertainties that it was easier to just stick my head back in a book and pray that the right girl would come strolling along at the right time, trusting to fate and divine providence to sort things out.

This approach is the way women lead their lives, and is, for want of a better term, beta. I didn't turn my situation around until I realized three things.

A) Women are not men, and do not think and act like men, nor are they capable of doing so. Therefore, I should not treat them like men, and should not expect of them what I expect of men. In other words, just because I as a man was being "professional" by speaking about the weather instead of hitting on a girl doesn't mean the girl has those same expectations, and she would not necessarily punish me for violating them. I'd have to violate my internal "code of proper conduct" in order to speak to women, but every other guy seemed to do it and get off scot-free, so my standards of decorum were hurting only me. (This is the same mentality which causes white knights to pat women on the back and condemn those nasty misogynists -the woman might realize how wonderfully platonic, 'civilized,' and un-sexual the white knight is and fall in love with him, he hopes.)

B) The modern world is broken when it comes to sex relations, and 97% of the girls you meet on the street are far closer to whores than inviolable princesses. I was raised with a lot of old-fashioned ideas about being a gentleman, but this dynamic only works when it's a two-way street. Nowadays, a man can only succeed with girls when he realizes that most of them want sex as much or more than he does, and that the only thing stopping him from taking advantage of that is himself.

C) As far as "inner game," I realized that it made me less a man to sit and hope for a princess to fall into my lap, and that with such an attitude, I would be a frustrated bachelor forever, or at least until I finally settled with a 300lb land whale who'd probably make my life even more miserable. That attitude ("trusting to fate") works for women, who are essentially coddled and handed most of what they have in life on a silver platter owing to their young age, then their beauty, and finally their wiles. It does not work for men, who must put in solid effort and determination to get anywhere.

Post: #8

(01-27-2013 05:42 PM)Ovid Wrote:  A) Women are not men, and do not think and act like men, nor are they capable of doing so. Therefore, I should not treat them like men, and should not expect of them what I expect of men. In other words, just because I as a man was being "professional" by speaking about the weather instead of hitting on a girl doesn't mean the girl has those same expectations, and she would not necessarily punish me for violating them. I'd have to violate my internal "code of proper conduct" in order to speak to women, but every other guy seemed to do it and get off scot-free, so my standards of decorum were hurting only me. (This is the same mentality which causes white knights to pat women on the back and condemn those nasty misogynists -the woman might realize how wonderfully platonic, 'civilized,' and un-sexual the white knight is and fall in love with him, he hopes.)

This is a problem that I think men are plagued with in the West. It's ingrained in our culture that "hitting" on a woman is some sort of violation of her personal space and well-bring. That it's wrong. Stopping a woman in the street that you are sexually attracted to is "creepy" and she will view you as such for "bothering" her. Male sexual desire is shamefully lascivious and a man that is sexually forward with a woman he doesn't know ought to be condemned as disrespectful to women and he's little better than a Neanderthal. This is why so many men in the Western world are afraid to approach a woman cold. These fears don't exist in Brazil or in Italy or Africa. They get into our heads from the time we are young, that women are disgusted by forward behavior from men. It can take years to shed that belief and still more to actually believe it at the gut level.

Post: #9

Dupe thread:

Describe your friend that gets laid the least

Post: #10

(01-27-2013 04:19 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  You described me for pretty much all my post-pubescent years up through college. Only difference is that I actually wanted to meet girls. I squandered all my opportunities due to extreme shyness. Shyness is something I still have to fight against even to this day(although I've come a long way since my early 20s), which is why I'm convinced that the trait is largely genetic.

I was going to say something, but I am going to hold on to it for now.

I am curious, if you are willing to open up, but how would you describe your past shyness? Was it a fear of meeting new people, or was it an innate lack of desire to talk to others, or was it a combination of both?

Edit:

(01-27-2013 06:36 PM)RandalGraves Wrote:  Dupe thread:

Describe your friend that gets laid the least

Even if the headline is similar, the way the topic is being approached is significantly different. That thread dealt with more of who, and who the person was. This one is delving into more of why, and why the person developed a certain way.

Post: #11

(01-27-2013 06:08 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  This is a problem that I think men are plagued with in the West. It's ingrained in our culture that "hitting" on a woman is some sort of violation of her personal space and well-bring. That it's wrong. Stopping a woman in the street that you are sexually attracted to is "creepy" and she will view you as such for "bothering" her. Male sexual desire is shamefully lascivious and a man that is sexually forward with a woman he doesn't know ought to be condemned as disrespectful to women and he's little better than a Neanderthal. This is why so many men in the Western world are afraid to approach a woman cold. These fears don't exist in Brazil or in Italy or Africa. They get into our heads from the time we are young, that women are disgusted by forward behavior from men. It can take years to shed that belief and still more to actually believe it at the gut level.

This attitude is, I believe, derived from Protestantism, specifically the austere Calvinistic, puritanical form it took in England, Scotland, and the New England colonies in North America. It boils down to prudery, and has been a defining feature of social relations in the English-speaking world for centuries. Nowadays, the overtly religious aspects have been largely forgotten, but the social habits remain to haunt us.

Post: #12

I have a friend who is exactly like this I gave him my copy of bang but he only read the intro even after seeing the results of it on my two other friends.
Sometimes you just have to accept that you cannot help them and just let them be the 40 year old virgin they are destined to be.

Post: #13

(01-27-2013 08:48 PM)Millz Wrote:  I have a friend who is exactly like this I gave him my copy of bang but he only read the intro even after seeing the results of it on my two other friends.
Sometimes you just have to accept that you cannot help them and just let them be the 40 year old virgin they are destined to be.

Right… A friend of mine tried to get some red pill thinking into a common friend of ours (a virgin most likely). The excuses started pouring out. "Guys who want to fuck girls are douches." Why even bother, lol.

Post: #14

(01-27-2013 04:47 PM)Knowledge Seeker Wrote:  

(01-27-2013 04:19 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  You described me for pretty much all my post-pubescent years up through college. Only difference is that I actually wanted to meet girls. I squandered all my opportunities due to extreme shyness. Shyness is something I still have to fight against even to this day(although I've come a long way since my early 20s), which is why I'm convinced that the trait is largely genetic.

I agree about your shyness excerpt. I've always been shy ever since I was little and it still trickles as a big part of my personality today. Everyone I know says a comment about me being "so quiet". Sometimes it is detriment to my gaming but I'm learning how to overcome it. I'm definitely in a comfortable part of my life now where I understand the female psyche and the game and how to convey my personality to these females in a positive light.

Even as a quiet person, I understand that in order to get pussy, you simply have to try. That means doing all the little things like texting/calling her and inviting her out. Many shy people are extremely passive so it is not in their nature to "make the first move". But by not making that move, they've already eliminated their selves from even playing.

Shy people still have to make that effort to chat with women. Closed mouths don't get fed. Make your shyness a part of your game. Intrigue the women by speaking and flirting with them but still play the aloof, mysterious, quiet guy and you'll have their minds thinking about you. Too easy.

If you're not out there doing what you need to do, then you won't be getting your dick wet at all. This is so cliche but as the Nike trademark says, Just do it.

As a natural introvert, I much prefer being quiet than talking or leading a conversation. That doesn't mean that you can't run your game unless you are really loud, it just means that you need to learn how to speak as little as possible but have the words be much more powerful than if you were telling a chick your 50 best DHV lines in 2 minutes.

In fact, I think beyond the initial interaction, being quiet is boss for game because it gets girl's hamsters spinning out of control. As long as it's not an awkward quiet and you show that being quiet is a part of who you are and you're fully comfortable with it, whilst looking super confident, then you will get girls dripping wet. A quiet person that looks like he is only quiet because he only spends his breath on those deserving of him is very powerful.

If you think about it, when you hear someone describe a dude as "he's a quiet guy", you think "loser" straight away. Not confident, shoulders hunched, nervous, etc. I don't think enough guys know the power of body language to pull off being quiet. I'm 100% confident that me and my best 2 mates could go to a bar, sit in silence for ages and have girls approach us.

Heartiste did a good experiment in helping transform a quiet guy who didn't have confidence by merely making him change his posture.

Think about when you're at a bar or a pub or a club, or whatever. You see guys holding drinks up to their chest in circles and it screams beta into the stratosphere. Imagine that guy in the corner of a club standing by himself.

Get the guy to hold his drink at his waist, leaning back on one straight leg while the other is pointed forward and he could stand there all night not making an effort to talk to anyone and he will get approached. Try it for yourself now, you'll see a difference.

It's really that simple to change someone's persona. You see, the thing is with quiet guys/introverts is that they don't like talking. They just don't like it and are scared to start conversations. It's why a lot of advice won't work on how to approach girls because of the anxiety. Sure, few will get over it and make a conscious effort to improve themselves as I have, but the majority just won't take it on board because they don't feel up to it.

I've cut a lot of people out of my life and I don't hang out with herbs or betas so I can't do it with anyone I know, but someone try it with one of their mates. Just get them to stand differently at a bar and see how they feel. I bet you could leave them alone and they would get approached. It's about knowing your strengths and weaknesses, and if your weakness is talking then you have to find other ways around it.

Post: #15

I know a guy like this through Facebook. We "met" in a music group and ended up having a lot in common. When I posted an old Roissy blog entry he asked what it was about...and then proceeded to tell me he'd never had a relationship or "relations" and he was around 30. He's the king of "LJBF."

This baffled me. He's an extremely good-looking guy (not gay!) who holds a decent job, works on cars, and has all his hair. Noticing all this, my first question was: how tall are you? He's 6'3." WTF?!

My only conclusion is that some guys have an "X factor" that puts women off or makes them indifferent. These are the guys who need to learn game ASAP. I've pushed him in this direction, but he's reluctant. This guy is living proof that looks, height, and intelligence do not = easy sex. And proof that game not only works but trumps those other factors. I think if this were like 1966 the guy would probably be married, but in the current environment he's getting eaten alive. And he doesn't "get it" because he has old-fashioned ideals. Hopefully, I'll be able to get him to these parts soon.

Post: #16

(01-28-2013 12:31 AM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:  I know a guy like this through Facebook. We "met" in a music group and ended up having a lot in common. When I posted an old Roissy blog entry he asked what it was about...and then proceeded to tell me he'd never had a relationship or "relations" and he was around 30. He's the king of "LJBF."

This baffled me. He's an extremely good-looking guy (not gay!) who holds a decent job, works on cars, and has all his hair. Noticing all this, my first question was: how tall are you? He's 6'3." WTF?!

My only conclusion is that some guys have an "X factor" that puts women off or makes them indifferent. These are the guys who need to learn game ASAP. I've pushed him in this direction, but he's reluctant. This guy is living proof that looks, height, and intelligence do not = easy sex. And proof that game not only works but trumps those other factors. I think if this were like 1966 the guy would probably be married, but in the current environment he's getting eaten alive. And he doesn't "get it" because he has old-fashioned ideals. Hopefully, I'll be able to get him to these parts soon.

These are all great responses. It seems the common denominator between these people is inability to compel someone of the opposite sex to learn more about them. They just don't hit that switch or they just don't hit those buttons. It's a shame. Ordinary, functional guys just don't cut it.

I agree with the assertion that masculinity has been watered down. The average male now has less opportunities to meet women. Longer work hours, stricter sexual harassment laws, lack of a person around who showed them properly how to connect to women... It's a combination for a clusterfuck of frustration for the average male. People think that the Pareto Principle is bullshit when it comes to guys and girls, but I have seen too much evidence that asserts that only a few guys manage to attract a lot of female attention. I doubt it's 20 percent of males hooking up with 80 percent of females, but the average female loses her virginity much faster than the average guy now and definitely has more sexual partners than the average guy.

Post: #17

(01-27-2013 02:29 PM)Sir Alan Wrote:  In every circle of friends, there is at least one guy who doesn't get laid.
What about you guys? Do you have any friends like this? What is he like?

I know this guy who I swear is only bisexual because he keeps putting pussy on the pedestal. The guy is extremely outgoing, and has a huge circle of friends, and can ramble like no one's business. He's a divorced ex-pastor, and judging from his stories about his wife he clearly did not game her. Around gay men he's an asshole, he pumps and dumps men without a second thought, leaving a trail of tearful gay men. But around women, especially blondes, he becomes the sappiest beta ever. The thing is, the guy could really be a player if he could just learn to look down on women the same way he looks down on gay men, but my wisdom just washes off him like his mind is covered in impenetrable steel. It hurts to see so much wasted potential, and I reckon the only reason he is bisexual is because his betaness makes it difficult to get laid with women. Worse still, he could easily be an unstoppable networker and get out of his crummy job, but he spends far too much time partying and then complains about his job rather than spending some of his free time making contacts in his industry.

He studies parttime. This dude once had a hot blonde chick he had just met come over to his place in order to 'study' and he ignored all the signals she gave him and they spend the entire night studying!!!! Then he was on facebook and posted on her wall 'You are the most awesome study buddy!' and then she almost immediately after that broke off all contact with him. And he was like, 'I don't know what I did wrong!?' And I was like: facepalm x3

The dude could easily get the blonde chicks he so craves if he could just train himself to stop putting them on pedestals.

Post: #18

(01-27-2013 10:33 PM)MattC Wrote:  Heartiste did a good experiment in helping transform a quiet guy who didn't have confidence by merely making him change his posture.

Think about when you're at a bar or a pub or a club, or whatever. You see guys holding drinks up to their chest in circles and it screams beta into the stratosphere. Imagine that guy in the corner of a club standing by himself.

Get the guy to hold his drink at his waist, leaning back on one straight leg while the other is pointed forward and he could stand there all night not making an effort to talk to anyone and he will get approached. Try it for yourself now, you'll see a difference.

I don't think this is a good strategy for most men. If a normal guy goes into a bar and posts up in the corner holding his drink low, women won't give a flying fuck about him. They'll probably think he's "creepy" for just standing there by himself. Being quiet only helps if you already have high value in the eyes of the woman. If a woman doesn't know you, you pretty much have no value to her unless you are her physical type in which case game doesn't matter at that point anyway...all you have to do is just not fuck it up.

Men are expected to take initiative and keep the conversation and energy moving forward. Women will rarely if ever do this. It happens sometimes, but it's not something we as men can depend on.

(01-27-2013 06:45 PM)All or Nothing Wrote:  I am curious, if you are willing to open up, but how would you describe your past shyness? Was it a fear of meeting new people, or was it an innate lack of desire to talk to others, or was it a combination of both?

I've never had a fear of meeting new people or a general shyness toward the world. It was only when it came to asserting myself with women or showing any sexual interest. In junior high, I was literally embarrassed if a girl found out that I liked her. I did have some bad experiences where in my formative years I tried to make my first baby steps toward showing interest in women and got shut down pretty hard, like her and her friends laughing when she rejected me and shit like that, so maybe that's what put me on a bad path. I once read that sometimes what we call a natural is just a guy who got lucky in his early years and had his first seduction attempts go well, and things snowballed and he built off those successes. On the other hand, some guys got rejected hard and it caused them to withdraw into comics and video games rather than overcome that mishap and socialize on a normal path that all adolescent males must go through.

Post: #19

I think speakeasy you're right about shyness being genetic (i don't have any scientific studies to prove it) as most of my first cousins are shy. The weird part though is that every parent in the generation above is not, they are all outspoken and generally say what the hell they want.

Could shyness be down to parenting?

But then you see little toddlers expressing signs of shyness, and parenting can have had minimal effect at that period of life.

Post: #20

(01-27-2013 10:33 PM)MattC Wrote:  Think about when you're at a bar or a pub or a club, or whatever. You see guys holding drinks up to their chest in circles and it screams beta into the stratosphere. Imagine that guy in the corner of a club standing by himself.

Get the guy to hold his drink at his waist, leaning back on one straight leg while the other is pointed forward and he could stand there all night not making an effort to talk to anyone and he will get approached. Try it for yourself now, you'll see a difference.

I've tried this and it does work, up to a point, even though I was usually 20 years older than the average punter at the club. Girls looked at me and a few put themselves in my vicinity but I found it difficult to transition from aloof to showing interest - I found myself losing value as soon as I started interacting.

I've always been a bit introverted but I wouldn't say I'm shy - I've appeared on stage in front of hundreds of people and loved it. Calm, enigmatic and aloof has worked for me, but only when I've had an 'in' through social circles, not in clubs or bars with complete strangers.

Post: #21

(01-27-2013 07:41 PM)Ovid Wrote:  

(01-27-2013 06:08 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  This is a problem that I think men are plagued with in the West. It's ingrained in our culture that "hitting" on a woman is some sort of violation of her personal space and well-bring. That it's wrong. Stopping a woman in the street that you are sexually attracted to is "creepy" and she will view you as such for "bothering" her. Male sexual desire is shamefully lascivious and a man that is sexually forward with a woman he doesn't know ought to be condemned as disrespectful to women and he's little better than a Neanderthal. This is why so many men in the Western world are afraid to approach a woman cold. These fears don't exist in Brazil or in Italy or Africa. They get into our heads from the time we are young, that women are disgusted by forward behavior from men. It can take years to shed that belief and still more to actually believe it at the gut level.

This attitude is, I believe, derived from Protestantism, specifically the austere Calvinistic, puritanical form it took in England, Scotland, and the New England colonies in North America. It boils down to prudery, and has been a defining feature of social relations in the English-speaking world for centuries. Nowadays, the overtly religious aspects have been largely forgotten, but the social habits remain to haunt us.

First post.
By my reckoning Protestantism has little to do with it. The reconfiguring of behaviour is a consequence of the development, or transformation, of morals. That transformation cannot be attributed to Protestantism, or, to be rather more specific, the original transformation cannot be attributed to Protestantism. Protestantism most likely did have an influence, yet it was merely a negligible contributory factor along the way, not the original determining one. The transformation of morals (and here we are concerning ourselves with how those morals affect our everyday social behaviour) occurred when the weak inverted the logic that said Aristocratic = Strong = Good = Joyful and so on and so on into a logic that said Meek = Lowly = Submissive = Good.

This transformation, transfiguration even, was the revenge of the lowly masses against the ruling classes and this subtle change reached its defining moment in Jesus Christ (although the road had begun much earlier with the Jewish religion) . The peasants subverting the reasoning of those above that had withstood for millenia and, ultimately, introducing the concept of guilt. Attaching this notion to all formerly aristocratic traits (strong, beautiful etc) the strong slowly ceased behaving as they had done. This moral code forced on them from below prevented them. To put all of the above in a succinct summary - the strong gradually turned into the guilty and weak, the weak gradually became the strong and the good.

The extent of this revolution in values is seen today. The cultivated man, the refined man, is seen as the one with depth, the type who deliberates, the type who contemplates. The more developed type. He follows this inverted moral code (abstracting each and everything and therefore paralysing himself into inaction). The man of gloom. The man stifled and bound by his own developed inverted moral code. This man, in his exalted highest state, his most stereotypical manner, is the man of neuroses. Imagine Woody Allen on his worst day. Think of beta.

By comparison, the contrast, what some might say is neanderthal, but, typically, is the aristocratic man of old, the type who see's and takes, who acts and thinks after, the man of action (as opposed to Dostoevsky's Underground Man - the man of thinking). The man of action is seen, might we dare say, as the simpler man. For him 2 + 2 always = 4. The alpha. This character is, by the standards of the moral code, primitive. More than that, by this moral code he is guilty.....but.... his notions of guilt, his tendencies towards feeling guilty, are either non existent or resisted. He doesn't give a damn. By the moral code he is always mistaken when he sees Strength and mistakes Strength to actually be Strength. He mistakes Meekness for Meekness. The beta is convinced his meekness, his weakness, his forgiveness, is actually an abstracted strength, free from guilt. The alpha sees beyond this, he is re-affirming the aristocratic ideal, for him weak is weak and nothing else. Strong is strong and nothing else. Abstraction has no role to play.

This revolution in morals, I'd wager to say, is where the attitude derived from. Protestantism, like all of Abraham's religions and their deviations, merely helped it on the way.

Some aspects are damn obvious. In almost any group of friends there are, like the original poster said, some guys, or just a guy, who doesn't 'get' the chicks they ought to (even though they might well be good looking, have status, etc).
Sell your cousin, offer your liver as collateral, because as sure as Monica Bellucci is beautiful and swimming shorts are for swimming those guys who aren't getting laid are all (never say all) neurosis afflicted, deliberating, what-if wishonastarmother*uckers.

Contemporary morals aren't conducive to game. They invert gut instinct and are an attack on the senses. A dude of introspection is not a man of action. A man of action doesn't have the depth that a man of introspection has. The man of action gets the pussy.

The midway point man, like myself, who is probably inferior to both, being neither one nor the other, a mongrel, might well struggle with authenticity. But, that's another issue for another day, is it not?

Post: #22

(01-28-2013 04:24 AM)bojangles Wrote:  I think speakeasy you're right about shyness being genetic (i don't have any scientific studies to prove it) as most of my first cousins are shy. The weird part though is that every parent in the generation above is not, they are all outspoken and generally say what the hell they want.

Could shyness be down to parenting?

But then you see little toddlers expressing signs of shyness, and parenting can have had minimal effect at that period of life.

I believe introversion/extroversion has a strong genetic link, but not entirely based on DNA. In toddlers, it may appear to be shyness but they don't have the ability to express themselves the way we do, so it could just be their tendency for introversion. Introversion does not equal shyness.

I believe the tendency to be more introverted and/or shy can do with parenting, especially those who are sheltered/overprotected and have no siblings. My friend is one of those guys, the guy who never went out to parties and he is an only child. We had a heart-to-heart conversation about his isolation and his inability to relate to people and he feels as if a part of him is missing because he wasn't able to develop a strong social component as a child. As a result, he feels alone all the time, even when he's not. I feel really bad for him. I just wish I could have known when we were in high school together so I could intervene. He's starting to break out, but it is a long, arduous process for him.

Post: #23

Like most guys here, this was me. I probably got lucky to avoid a HUGE midlife crisis when one day I will turn 50, I feel I got intto the game JUST IN TIME (many years after college in my case).

Post: #24

(01-28-2013 07:44 AM)Acute Angle Wrote:  

(01-27-2013 10:33 PM)MattC Wrote:  Think about when you're at a bar or a pub or a club, or whatever. You see guys holding drinks up to their chest in circles and it screams beta into the stratosphere. Imagine that guy in the corner of a club standing by himself.

Get the guy to hold his drink at his waist, leaning back on one straight leg while the other is pointed forward and he could stand there all night not making an effort to talk to anyone and he will get approached. Try it for yourself now, you'll see a difference.

I've tried this and it does work, up to a point, even though I was usually 20 years older than the average punter at the club. Girls looked at me and a few put themselves in my vicinity but I found it difficult to transition from aloof to showing interest - I found myself losing value as soon as I started interacting.

I've always been a bit introverted but I wouldn't say I'm shy - I've appeared on stage in front of hundreds of people and loved it. Calm, enigmatic and aloof has worked for me, but only when I've had an 'in' through social circles, not in clubs or bars with complete strangers.

That's because your social circle tells them you are cool. You've been validated by friends.

You don't need to talk a lot to convey this yourself. Body language, and not only what you say but how you say it, will also draw them in but it is more difficult. You need to be on point and not be the guy that gets "weird" when he's drinking.

I wish MikeCF would weigh in here. He's better at putting into words the actions an introvert has to play to get ahead.

Hotwheels=natural introvert

Post: #25

(01-28-2013 02:30 AM)speakeasy Wrote:  I've never had a fear of meeting new people or a general shyness toward the world. It was only when it came to asserting myself with women or showing any sexual interest. In junior high, I was literally embarrassed if a girl found out that I liked her. I did have some bad experiences where in my formative years I tried to make my first baby steps toward showing interest in women and got shut down pretty hard, like her and her friends laughing when she rejected me and shit like that, so maybe that's what put me on a bad path. I once read that sometimes what we call a natural is just a guy who got lucky in his early years and had his first seduction attempts go well, and things snowballed and he built off those successes. On the other hand, some guys got rejected hard and it caused them to withdraw into comics and video games rather than overcome that mishap and socialize on a normal path that all adolescent males must go through.

Thanks for answering my question speakeasy. I come from a similar place, although my nervousness is the result of a different history.

(02-01-2013 04:48 AM)Hotwheels Wrote:  I wish MikeCF would weigh in here. He's better at putting into words the actions an introvert has to play to get ahead.

Hotwheels=natural introvert

MikeCF has sworn off of posting on the forum ever since the gmanifesto thread in November. Funny enough, he still goes around liking posts. I wish he would post here again though. He was one of my favorite posters.