Post: #1

I tried to search the forum for a similar thread, but wasn't able to find any (perhaps I just don't know the correct terminology).

Most of the game advice I have read here applies to women who are either in the LTR category or are just looking to ride the cock carousel.

My question is this. How do you behave towards a woman who exhibits both types of behavior?

I am dealing with a girl who I laid on the first night. Knowing that this does not differentiate between the two types of women, I decided to play cocky/aloof game on this girl. The next day she's sending all of these texts about feelings and whatnot. I continue to play aloof game, telling her that everything is going to be fine, that this is fun, that things will develop in their own time.

She goes through these spells where she seems like the typical carousel-riding American chick. Takes her time replying to texts, goes out to clubs/parties with friends. Shit you probably wouldn't let a girl get away with if she was your steady thing. Then, she'll beg to talk to me or tell me all sorts of gooey romantic things.

So far, I haven't stepped too far outside of the cocky/aloof PUA comfort zone. My concern is that if I don't give her some beta, she might get spooked. I don't understand how you can play both types of game. How does one engage the dumb romantic stuff about how they might miss someone "soooo much" when that person has a way of switching back into a normal young American pump-n-dump type person?

I have a hard time making myself behave in a beta manner towards this person. Is this the correct approach?

Cheers,
Booshy

Post: #2

The girl you just described is every girl in America.

Post: #3

One of the hardest things to grasp about taking the red pill is the realization that Alpha/Aloof game IS the best kind of LTR game you can play.

Post: #4

Rather than repeat the standard advice, let me throw this at you

Consider a cute chick, a nice guy, and a bad boy.

Cute chicks do not believe that the Nice Guy, that holds doors for them, provides a shoulder for them to cry on, helps them move furniture...They don't believe that the nice guy ACTUALLY WANTS TO BEND THEM OVER THE COUCH AND FUCK THEM IN THE ASS, GET IT ON TAPE AND POST IT TO XVIDEOS.

They only believe that the bad boy wants to do that to her. The nerd doesn't want to do that to her. He's safe. She knows this because she can read his mind through his actions.

As men, we know the guy that helps her with a computer virus, watches her dog, picks her up when the bad boy kicks her out if his place - actually wants to do all of those disgusting and perverted things to them.

Indeed, in terms of desires and intent, the nice guy is really the same guy as the bad boy. They are different in look and different in action, but they both want the same thing.

Both the NERD and the MMA/POWERLIFTER/GANGSTA/OUTLAW BIKER want the same thing. Indeed, the NERD might be even more sex crazed and deviant than Bad BOY.

Now consider the guy new to the game, a cute church girl and a smoking hot club slut.

The new player knows that cock hopping club slut wants to be dominated, wants a real man, a man of action, a man who doesn't take anyone's shit especially not hers. She needs to be pounded into oblivion and taken to new sexual heights and depraved depths just to get out of bed in the morning and feel okay about herself.

But the new player thinks the church girl is different. She goes to school. She stays at home most weekends, usually online chatting with friends. Of course she doesn't want some muscled up douche bag or some cynical alpha don draper type. If she did want that, she'd wear tight clothing, heels, lipstick and go clubbing all the time. And she's like most chicks, she thinks Ryan Gosling is dreamy. But that's it.

Because the new player can use his eyes, and he can assess what a girl wants just by looking at how she dresses and how she acts.

There's no way a demure conservative girl wants to be taken to the top of lust mountain.

No possible way.

So instead of treating church girl like a prostitute, the new player treats a church girl like Marriage Material.
Much like he did with all girls before he became a player. He doesn't use "notch" game on a chick that is LTR worthy.

I wonder what's going to happen next?

WIA

Post: #5

(01-31-2013 03:43 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  Rather than repeat the standard advice, let me throw this at you

Consider a cute chick, a nice guy, and a bad boy.

Cute chicks do not believe that the Nice Guy, that holds doors for them, provides a shoulder for them to cry on, helps them move furniture...They don't believe that the nice guy ACTUALLY WANTS TO BEND THEM OVER THE COUCH AND FUCK THEM IN THE ASS, GET IT ON TAPE AND POST IT TO XVIDEOS.

They only believe that the bad boy wants to do that to her. The nerd doesn't want to do that to her. He's safe. She knows this because she can read his mind through his actions.

As men, we know the guy that helps her with a computer virus, watches her dog, picks her up when the bad boy kicks her out if his place - actually wants to do all of those disgusting and perverted things to them.

Indeed, in terms of desires and intent, the nice guy is really the same guy as the bad boy. They are different in look and different in action, but they both want the same thing.

Both the NERD and the MMA/POWERLIFTER/GANGSTA/OUTLAW BIKER want the same thing. Indeed, the NERD might be even more sex crazed and deviant than Bad BOY.

Now consider the guy new to the game, a cute church girl and a smoking hot club slut.

The new player knows that cock hopping club slut wants to be dominated, wants a real man, a man of action, a man who doesn't take anyone's shit especially not hers. She needs to be pounded into oblivion and taken to new sexual heights and depraved depths just to get out of bed in the morning and feel okay about herself.

But the new player thinks the church girl is different. She goes to school. She stays at home most weekends, usually online chatting with friends. Of course she doesn't want some muscled up douche bag or some cynical alpha don draper type. If she did want that, she'd wear tight clothing, heels, lipstick and go clubbing all the time. And she's like most chicks, she thinks Ryan Gosling is dreamy. But that's it.

Because the new player can use his eyes, and he can assess what a girl wants just by looking at how she dresses and how she acts.

There's no way a demure conservative girl wants to be taken to the top of lust mountain.

No possible way.

So instead of treating church girl like a prostitute, the new player treats a church girl like Marriage Material.
Much like he did with all girls before he became a player. He doesn't use "notch" game on a chick that is LTR worthy.

I wonder what's going to happen next?

WIA

Post: #6

(01-31-2013 03:43 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  Rather than repeat the standard advice, let me throw this at you

Consider a cute chick, a nice guy, and a bad boy.

Cute chicks do not believe that the Nice Guy, that holds doors for them, provides a shoulder for them to cry on, helps them move furniture...They don't believe that the nice guy ACTUALLY WANTS TO BEND THEM OVER THE COUCH AND FUCK THEM IN THE ASS, GET IT ON TAPE AND POST IT TO XVIDEOS.

They only believe that the bad boy wants to do that to her. The nerd doesn't want to do that to her. He's safe. She knows this because she can read his mind through his actions.

As men, we know the guy that helps her with a computer virus, watches her dog, picks her up when the bad boy kicks her out if his place - actually wants to do all of those disgusting and perverted things to them.

Indeed, in terms of desires and intent, the nice guy is really the same guy as the bad boy. They are different in look and different in action, but they both want the same thing.

Both the NERD and the MMA/POWERLIFTER/GANGSTA/OUTLAW BIKER want the same thing. Indeed, the NERD might be even more sex crazed and deviant than Bad BOY.

Now consider the guy new to the game, a cute church girl and a smoking hot club slut.

The new player knows that cock hopping club slut wants to be dominated, wants a real man, a man of action, a man who doesn't take anyone's shit especially not hers. She needs to be pounded into oblivion and taken to new sexual heights and depraved depths just to get out of bed in the morning and feel okay about herself.

But the new player thinks the church girl is different. She goes to school. She stays at home most weekends, usually online chatting with friends. Of course she doesn't want some muscled up douche bag or some cynical alpha don draper type. If she did want that, she'd wear tight clothing, heels, lipstick and go clubbing all the time. And she's like most chicks, she thinks Ryan Gosling is dreamy. But that's it.

Because the new player can use his eyes, and he can assess what a girl wants just by looking at how she dresses and how she acts.

There's no way a demure conservative girl wants to be taken to the top of lust mountain.

No possible way.

So instead of treating church girl like a prostitute, the new player treats a church girl like Marriage Material.
Much like he did with all girls before he became a player. He doesn't use "notch" game on a chick that is LTR worthy.

I wonder what's going to happen next?

WIA

With respect to all amazing talent and experience on this site, I have to say this may be the most profound post I have read on here thus far. Rep point given. Mind: blown

Post: #7

WIA really hits the nail with this one. What works to get her wet for a one night stand is what works to keep her wet during a relationship. That's being an upstanding alpha dude with whatever particular attractive traits her individual personality is drawn to. For some chicks it may be physically dominant appearance, bravado, or emotional/social dominance, charisma, presence, along with many other things.

The main rule to remember is that women will be women will be women. Meaning that she may start out as cock hopping party chick in the beginning, but if she likes banging you and you hit it like a pro without getting all beta on her she'll soon get the itch to lock you down because she'll sense your value is more permanent and intrinsic (your game is strong) and you weren't just fronting. All girls start out "just wanting to have fun" and then all the sudden wonder "hey, so what are we to each other?". Whenever she starts that conversation, you know you're doing something right and you must stay the course.

That's the modern western liberated woman for you, and the answer on how to bed them is STRONG GAME. Relationship, ONS. Same thing.

Post: #8

(01-31-2013 02:42 PM)booshybish Wrote:  My concern is that if I don't give her some beta, she might get spooked. I don't understand how you can play both types of game.

You must know what YOU want before you can start thinking about giving her what SHE wants.

What do YOU want out of this relationship? Do you want it to get more serious? Do you think she has displayed the kind of character to be a woman worthy of more investment in your life, emotional and otherwise? Or do you just want to keep banging her with as little stress and effort as possible?

You must know what YOU want first, otherwise you'll just be reacting to her leading your interactions.

Quote: How does one engage the dumb romantic stuff about how they might miss someone "soooo much" when that person has a way of switching back into a normal young American pump-n-dump type person?

Again, the question is do YOU want to? If you think that increasing your emotional availability/investment is the correct way to keep a party girl's legs spread for you, you're severely misguided. If you see her really desiring a true emotional connection with you, you need to know what benefits THAT would bring into your life and what behaviors has she demonstrated so far that would make higher emotional investment a positive progression in your relationship.

Quote: I have a hard time making myself behave in a beta manner towards this person. Is this the correct approach?

Cheers,
Booshy

This is probably your subconscious intuition telling you that she isn't worthy of an upgrade. My advice would be to forget any inclination you may have to "up the beta" when she ups hers because this is only the fact that as humans we like mirroring behavior. If someone is being lovey dovey with us, we really want to respond in kind, unless you're a psychopath. The matter is that as a man, you must use your reasoning skills to LEAD the interaction according to YOUR goals and your intuition that any romantic involvement with this chick will just result in negative behavior.

If you like to bang her, keep on the aloof alpha train and don't feel bad for a second brother. She'll soon hop off the train probably anyway.

MaX

Post: #9

(01-31-2013 03:43 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  Rather than repeat the standard advice, let me throw this at you

Consider a cute chick, a nice guy, and a bad boy.

Cute chicks do not believe that the Nice Guy, that holds doors for them, provides a shoulder for them to cry on, helps them move furniture...They don't believe that the nice guy ACTUALLY WANTS TO BEND THEM OVER THE COUCH AND FUCK THEM IN THE ASS, GET IT ON TAPE AND POST IT TO XVIDEOS.

They only believe that the bad boy wants to do that to her. The nerd doesn't want to do that to her. He's safe. She knows this because she can read his mind through his actions.

As men, we know the guy that helps her with a computer virus, watches her dog, picks her up when the bad boy kicks her out if his place - actually wants to do all of those disgusting and perverted things to them.

Indeed, in terms of desires and intent, the nice guy is really the same guy as the bad boy. They are different in look and different in action, but they both want the same thing.

Both the NERD and the MMA/POWERLIFTER/GANGSTA/OUTLAW BIKER want the same thing. Indeed, the NERD might be even more sex crazed and deviant than Bad BOY.

Now consider the guy new to the game, a cute church girl and a smoking hot club slut.

The new player knows that cock hopping club slut wants to be dominated, wants a real man, a man of action, a man who doesn't take anyone's shit especially not hers. She needs to be pounded into oblivion and taken to new sexual heights and depraved depths just to get out of bed in the morning and feel okay about herself.

But the new player thinks the church girl is different. She goes to school. She stays at home most weekends, usually online chatting with friends. Of course she doesn't want some muscled up douche bag or some cynical alpha don draper type. If she did want that, she'd wear tight clothing, heels, lipstick and go clubbing all the time. And she's like most chicks, she thinks Ryan Gosling is dreamy. But that's it.

Because the new player can use his eyes, and he can assess what a girl wants just by looking at how she dresses and how she acts.

There's no way a demure conservative girl wants to be taken to the top of lust mountain.

No possible way.

So instead of treating church girl like a prostitute, the new player treats a church girl like Marriage Material.
Much like he did with all girls before he became a player. He doesn't use "notch" game on a chick that is LTR worthy.

I wonder what's going to happen next?

WIA

Once again, I am impressed with your advice.

Post: #10

Roissy/Heartiste has done some excellent posts on gaming to get a relationship and during a relationship

Post: #11

(02-01-2013 03:00 PM)InsurgentMax Wrote:  Again, the question is do YOU want to? If you think that increasing your emotional availability/investment is the correct way to keep a party girl's legs spread for you, you're severely misguided. If you see her really desiring a true emotional connection with you, you need to know what benefits THAT would bring into your life and what behaviors has she demonstrated so far that would make higher emotional investment a positive progression in your relationship.

This! I'm currently reading the book "Models" (highly recommended) and this is pretty much the theme of the entire book.

Post: #12

(02-01-2013 11:13 PM)RCron Wrote:  This! I'm currently reading the book "Models" (highly recommended) and this is pretty much the theme of the entire book.

Do you have a link to that book, or at least the author's name? There are many books with that title.

Post: #13

I think it might be this one:

http://www.amazon.com/Models-Attract-Wom...rds=models

http://postmasculine.com/author/markmanson

Post: #14

(02-03-2013 03:53 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  I think it might be this one:

http://www.amazon.com/Models-Attract-Wom...rds=models

http://postmasculine.com/author/markmanson

There are many five star reviews of that book, but this is the review that really got my attention:

"Okay boys, as a woman having read this; I hate the whole idea here. Being honest isn't the same as being a great guy. It's IS The same as being 'the nice guy who never gets any'.
I think a 'nice guy' wrote this book.
Honesty? Yeah, we ladies LOVE that IF what you're being honest about is that you have a great personality, positive life goals, and a great, forward moving life to back it all up.
But we also value mystery, strength, passion, power, and yes, money. We are not gold-diggers. But we like to know you're a viable man in the real world, not someone who still needs mama's help to survive.
Sorry. But I feel like this books should be titled 'the unattractive, lazy, self-pitying guy's guide to being so nice that it guilts women in to being with him'."

Ok, never accept dating advice from a woman, but is Manson really advocating nice-guy game? That's a pretty damning charge from either sex.

Post: #15

Don't know what book she read but just look at the table of contents.

Post: #16

I found a PDF of Models and have started reading it (PM me if you want a copy). Seems pretty humane and sensible so far. He seems equally down on nice guys and what he calls Fake Alphas, and calls for eliminating neediness at one's core.

Post: #17

WIA, wow. That's how you tell a story boys.

Post: #18

The main idea behind Mark's book that makes it stand out from most manosphere game advice is that he advocates a solid Inner Game foundation where the work is done to work through your core insecurities and neediness and self-worth issues as opposed to white-washing them with superficial tactics and overcompensating "alpha" behaviors.

T at The Rawness has a fantastic treatise on this as well, explaining how most modern pickup and game advice is simply taking men who have natural co-dependency tendencies (read: nice guy syndrome) and teaching to overcompensate with narcissistic behaviors.

It's pretty funny that that woman reacted so negatively to this book. It just betrays the fact that most Western women are so psychologically unbalanced and traumatized at their core that they simply don't even register their lover's needs and humanity.

Mark Manson's work will essentially resonate with you if you have gone through the whole becoming super alpha player transformation and the variety of pussy begins its inevitable diminishing return of satisfaction. If you have ever gotten to a notch goal, or game goal and yet still realize there's something missing in all your relationships, that's because you're using women to make a point as opposed to just enjoying whatever it is they can offer to your life at the moment. He basically makes the case for working through your issues that stopped you from being alpha in the first place so that when you do develop yourself into an attractive man, it's coming from a healthy core of high self-esteem and non-neediness, not from an insecure, cartoonish, fake-it-til-you-make-it model that crumbles the moment these core insecurities resurface.

It's eye opening stuff. I highly recommend his work as well as T's blog therawness.com if you want to know more about the widespread epidemic of personality disorders and how emotionally and psychologically draining they can be.

Funny that you mentioned that book since it wasn't in my mind when I replied here. My reply just seems logical to me, yet we're all sometimes too invested in meeting our notch counts or getting girls that we forget to look inside and question what it is that we actually want with any particular girl.

Post: #19

Well written. I concur.

Post: #20

Just finished Models and would have to say it's one of the best reads about game and pickup other than Roosh's work. What really resonated with me is how he defines neediness and how it's completely different to approach a woman with a strong sexual agenda, confidently state your attraction to her and then be outcome independent vs. approaching with a mindset of "gosh I hope she likes me and is nice to me."

I'm beginning to learn that women will constantly bitch about how they hate men who are "creepers" and only want sex but at the same time they can't leave them alone and find themselves getting pulled in anyway. Their cavewomen instincts are alive and well!

Post: #21

In a battle between thousands of years of evolution and 50 years of feminism there really is no contest. Women believe they are fighting men but in reality they are fighting their own nature. The biggest difference between men and women is that society has allowed us to accept our nature and force women to suppress theirs.

Post: #22

as its been said. they're all the same...i learned this the hard way.

Post: #23

(02-04-2013 10:23 AM)Acute Angle Wrote:  Ok, never accept dating advice from a woman, but is Manson really advocating nice-guy game? That's a pretty damning charge from either sex.

Man, it'd be nice to have some of the Game Sages to run through Manson's ideology.

I've tried, but it's very hard to wade through because you find yourself yelling @ the pdf. DUDE IT TOTALLY DOESN'T WORK LIKE THAT.

Too much psych, but then again I've never been a dating coach.

WIA

Post: #24

(02-11-2013 01:55 PM)RCron Wrote:  Just finished Models and would have to say it's one of the best reads about game and pickup other than Roosh's work. What really resonated with me is how he defines neediness and how it's completely different to approach a woman with a strong sexual agenda, confidently state your attraction to her and then be outcome independent vs. approaching with a mindset of "gosh I hope she likes me and is nice to me."

This is my problem with Models. Hell it's my problem with a lot of Game Books.

The world isn't that black and white.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the way that Manson looks @ shit tests and level 5 defcon bitch shields that chicks have - is that those chicks are damaged, and why would you want to deal with those chicks.

WIA