Post: #1

I just read that one of the biggest causes of fatty liver has nothing to do with alcohol, fat, or sugar, and is essentially a symptom of choline deficiency. Not sure if anybody here is worried about fatty liver or gallbladder disease, though I am somewhat. The reason why more people are looking into this is because of nonalcoholic fatty liver disease, since most people believe that you have to be some kind of raging drunk to get fatty liver.

Here's a post on the Daily Lipid on the subject.

Quote:Choline is King!

I have to conclude from all these studies that choline deficiency plays a role in virtually every type of diet-induced fatty liver model. The fat has to be provided to the liver through either dietary fat or dietary lipogenic substrates like ethanol and fructose, and the fat has to be trapped by impaired export of fats from the liver. And choline deficiency seems to be the preeminent cause of this.

So does fructose cause fatty liver? Kind of. I'm not suggesting fructose is harmless or that you should go out an eat a bowl of fruit loops with your liver and eggs, but the loss of cholesterol-rich foods like egg yolks and organ meats as a result of cholesterol paranoia seems to be at the bottom NAFLD thus far.

There's just one question. Leptin deficiency and leptin resistance both cause fatty liver. And obese people are leptin resistant and the majority of obese people have fatty liver. Can fatty liver or choline deficiency cause leptin resistance? Or does leptin resistance cause cravings for choline-poor, fatty, and fructose-rich foods? Here's a web I'll try to untangle in future posts!

http://blog.cholesterol-and-health.com/2...yolks.html

Here's Marks Daily Apple's take on it.
https://www.marksdailyapple.com/2-more-c...bout-them/

The short version is, eat eggs, organ meats, and shellfish.

Post: #2

Technically speaking, choline should be classified as a vitamin. But after the debacle of whole classes of vitamins being declassified as vitamins (namely Vitamins F, G, H, I, J, B4, B8, B10, B11) and a lot of scientists getting burned in the process, even newly discovered nutrients that are clearly necessary in the diet are no longer classified as vitamins (while some vitamins, such as D and K, should probably not be classified as vitamins, as it is possible to get them from non-dietary sources). Which is a pity, because the vitamin classification system does have its uses. Like the vitamins, with inadequate Choline in the diet, whole metabolic processes in our body start falling apart. Thanks for bringing the topic up, choline is wrongfully ignored simply because it doesn't have the 'vitamin' tag all the health nuts are used to clinging to.

Post: #3

Interesting; great find.

Post: #4

(03-29-2013 01:25 AM)Thomas the Rhymer Wrote:  Technically speaking, choline should be classified as a vitamin. But after the debacle of whole classes of vitamins being declassified as vitamins (namely Vitamins F, G, H, I, J, B4, B8, B10, B11) and a lot of scientists getting burned in the process, even newly discovered nutrients that are clearly necessary in the diet are no longer classified as vitamins (while some vitamins, such as D and K, should probably not be classified as vitamins, as it is possible to get them from non-dietary sources). Which is a pity, because the vitamin classification system does have its uses. Like the vitamins, with inadequate Choline in the diet, whole metabolic processes in our body start falling apart. Thanks for bringing the topic up, choline is wrongfully ignored simply because it doesn't have the 'vitamin' tag all the health nuts are used to clinging to.

This sounds interesting. So what is the history of the term vitamin? What does it refer to and not refer to? Why?

Post: #5

(03-29-2013 10:23 PM)Lazarus Wrote:  This sounds interesting. So what is the history of the term vitamin? What does it refer to and not refer to? Why?

It's supposed to refer to any non-amino acid, non-carbohydrate, non-fat nutrient that one has to have in the diet in order to have health. However, Vitamin D (synthesised in the skin) and Vitamin K (synthesised in the gut) are classified as vitamins even though it can be possible to get enough of them from non-dietary sources.

Originally the term was 'vital amine,' because the guy who discovered the first vitamin (thiamine) believed that he had discovered a new class of nutrient, bringing up the nutrients to four: proteins, carbohydrates, fats and amines. This idea was disproven with time and several non-amine molecules are now classified as vitamins. The name, however, stuck.

The scientist who discovered Thiamine stumbled upon it in such a simple, uncomplicated way that the entire scientific world had a collective slap on the forehead and cried, "Why didn't I think of that?" Actually, it's still unclear who discovered it first, because about 4 scientists discovered it more or less at the same time. It was an idea whose time had come, I suppose. Not only that, but the discovery of this molecule also at the same time revealed the cure for Beri-beri, korsakoff syndrome, and other thiamine deficiency ailments. 2 of the scientists (the Dutch guy and the English guy) even got a Nobel peace prize (the Polish guy and the Japanese guy were ignored).

This led to a goldrush of scientists all scrambling to discover the next vitamin and the next cure of a scourge of humanity (with the instant science street cred that would bring). A lot of people, trying to muscle in their discovery first, loudly declared various molecules to be vitamins; only to have egg on their faces as their findings were found to be either erroneous or they were found to be lying. (I found a fascinating list of all the vitamins ever here, which includes Kosko's beloved amygalin).
This led to the vitamin classification system being chopped and changed dramatically so often that it became discredited and was abandoned. Whatever old labels still stuck, were left on for what it was worth (Hence the long gap between Vitamin E and Vitamin K). But any new essential nutrient discovered these days will not get the vitamin label.