Post: #26

It sounds like the specific issue you had at work is really irrelevant, it's just the excuse this douchebag used to get in your face and make you look bad in front of your coworkers and superiors. Everyone saying not to get mad is correct, let this wave flow right over you and keep swimming.

I was in a very similar situation. A guy on my level and his boss had it out for me, picked on me for some minor procedural, time-wasting bullshit, called me out in front of everyone in the office and made me look like an asshole. I stewed for about 24 hours over this bullshit and chose the nuclear option, came in the next morning and basically blew the entire office up. It was awesome ripping these guys new assholes, making them look like petty douchebags and getting everyone in the place so riled up the executives had to come in and restore order.

But I didn't think things through at all. I made serious, powerful enemies who were able to completely fuck me over and I got fired within a few weeks. My mistake was believing that production trumps personality. In a strictly logical world it does but that's not how the office game works. The reality is I looked like an unstable, angry, troublemaker who needed to be replaced ASAP. If I had to do it all over again I would be much more calm, subtle and devious instead of letting them push my buttons and engineer my own exit from the company.

Don't concern yourself with retaliation. Sure, some dick threw egg on your face and made you look like an idiot, in the long run that will only tighten up your office game. He's trying to take the target off his back and put it on yours. Give him enough rope and he will eventually hang himself.

Kill this guy with kindness, sit back and enjoy watching him self destruct.

Post: #27

(03-29-2013 12:56 PM)TheCool Wrote:  

(03-29-2013 12:11 PM)BostonBMW Wrote:  

(03-29-2013 11:38 AM)TheCool Wrote:  Get a few guys to break his legs

Easy

Believe me, I wish I could be gangsta like that at my job.

Violence is underrated..lets see how the dynamic changes when he walks in the office with a black eye or better yet when arrives to the office in a wheel chair.

Your in Boston right?

I Think you'd be suprised how easy you could arrange an accident to happen.

The next morning at work you'll say "Hey Bob, damn what happened...you ok?"

Wish I could boss. While seeing this Dbag suffer would give me immense joy the risks are simply not worth it.

Post: #28

(03-29-2013 01:05 PM)titan22 Wrote:  I'm in a similar situation, but he doesn't call me out in meetings, he questions something that an outside agency has to fix, I go tho them, and when it's not resolved in 15 minutes he goes to the CEO and starts going on that I've had weeks to get it done (really?). This individual has been this way since the day I started. I've got my next gig lined up and am moving to a much better city and climate in August. Just have to ignore him till then.

I hate to say it, but every job has at least one person like this. I wish I could say that I can jump ship and find a situation where everyone get along, but I'm not holding my breath.

Best thing I can do is to manage the situation.

Post: #29

(03-29-2013 12:37 PM)Technics Wrote:  

(03-29-2013 12:25 PM)BostonBMW Wrote:  

(03-29-2013 11:56 AM)WestCoast Wrote:  Pointing out someones mistake is bush league. It means they are scared of losing their job.

Also being defensive when it is clearly wrong just makes you look dumb, own it in a positive manner.

1. When someone calls you out and its legitimately wrong admit fault and find a way to make sure it never happens again.
2. If there are errors in person 2's work (same level as you), let someone higher up catch it.
3. If someone continues to do passive aggressive stuff to you, continue to play the higher hand of being unphased.

Here's the thing, if the work is seriously fucked up like misspelling CEO's name or sending docs to wrong clients yeah you're not good at your job. Now if its stupid nit picky stuff, the person who calls all that out is looking more and more insecure.

In terms of levels, basically you never talk back to someone above you unless you're getting ready to jump their spot and get promoted. Ex. You + level 1 guy + level 2 guy. NEVER EVER be critical of level 2. You will look like an idiot and burn your own spot.

Another good rule, if you're not being criticized they don't give a shit about you. If you're getting comments from a very high up person then they actually care about your long-term performance. To be honest 99% of people don't realize that critcism is not the way to motivate people, so just accept that they don't understand that concept and realize they are being critical for a positive reason, they want you to improve.

Work game is actually quite fun. Remember this when comparing yourself to other people are the same level. The first person to anger is the first person to lose his job, he cannot control his emotions.

Westcoast: I appreciate your comprehensive response. Since you're a finance guy, I'm in an FP&A role, and this guy would be considered on an equivalent level. A real North Jersey Dbag. My mistake was not following a newly enacted internal process. I didn't follow the internal process and jumped ahead and did my thing (quicker). No one got hurt, no $ lost, no clients upset.

Now here is the thing: I have evidence of several instances where we have lost money, upset the clients, etc with this guy and his group. I have been playing it cool for a while, but I'll admit this thing ticked me off. While he was right in calling me out for not following an internal policy, he could have done it after the meeting.

Also, I should mention that I have recently gotten a promotion and a few direct reports along the way, yet this guy still can't treat me with respect. He on the other hand, has gotten a new manager in the past 6 months.

I like your point about letting others find out about his mistake, but in this one particular instance, he has not gotten client sign off for the work that we have done for them and they are refusing to pay us. What's the best way to bring this to light?

I feel like I'm swimming with sharks, so I am trying to get my house in order first.

If I were in your position, I would consider coming up with some suggestion or at least re-packaging of some sort of protocols for dealing with clients who refuse to pay. Present to someone with power to act on it. Don't mention the douchebag's situation yourself, but eventually the topic will come up of how the new method can be applied or why it's needed, or what the current status of client accounts is and then boom, you can say "for example Jersey dbag's client...."

It will not come off vindictive as you will only bring it up when asked about it, (or even better, someone else will mention the guy's mistake) because you're not presenting the mistake affirmatively. Instead, your spotlighting it indirectly by bringing up a closely related topic which inevitably will lead to the guy's mistake being highlighted. Even better, if done right, you should come off as a helping hand, trying to bring solutions.

The key is to absolutely resist the temptation to bring up Dbag's mistake in any context other than a direct question from a superior, the direct answer to which should include Dbag's mistake.

This is a very good point. I think I can use the Dbag's mistake as one of the several cases that deal with non paying clients and I'll let his mistakes/issues shine.

I appreciate the advice, hoping that it will yield results.

Post: #30

When someone tries to ream me out or yell at work, I quickly close the gap, lean in making eye contact and say:

"The last time someone got away with yelling/reaming me out was in Marine Corps bootcamp. Understand?"

It always works, and they never bow up again.

Post: #31

(03-29-2013 02:34 PM)thedude3737 Wrote:  I've got some solid input here I think...

As a chef, I'm responsible for the actions of some of the stupidest, most useless members of society. My work force consists of immigrants, legal and illegal, high school dropouts, ex-prison inmates, you get the picture. Getting these people to produce consistent results is a task more difficult than pulling teeth.

At any given moment, if I turn my back for even a second, they'll do the stupidest most idiotic thing imaginable. Something as simple as toasting bread. They burn half of it and send it out the pass thinking that somehow it's okay. This, at a high end boutique hotel in L.A. We get celebs here all the fucking time; imagine them getting a plate of burnt toast in front of them.

The end result of this is I gotta hear about everything at the manager's meetings. I've ironed out most of the kinks in this place but when I first started here I was like a fucking punching bag. I'd read the 48 Laws of Power and got to put some of those principles in action.

Basically, kill them with kindness. It's presumed that your job is safe and that you're reasonably good at what you do. If that's the case, then there's never any reason for defensiveness. If people want to trash on you or your performance, you give them impression of taking them very seriously. Do it with a good-natured spirit. Pretend that "you" are just a heap of trash in the corner, and you're on your accusers side, even joining in and agreeing with his assessments. This requires some practice, but it is the best way to defuse the situation and improve your stature in everyone's eyes. If higher managers are present, this move goes a long way.

This isn't to say be a pushover. If someone comes at me with an assertion that is false, I correct them firmly and keep it all about the facts.

Example (this conversation actually happened a few months ago):
Managers: "Thedude3737, it seems like you don't care about this job."
Me: "Nothing can be further from the truth. I bring my experience and passion for cooking to this position on a daily basis. It's been a fulfilling process to rise to the daily challenges presented here. While I may seem frustrated at times, it's only because I care."

Note how I didn't even address their concern at first, and ended my response with "...I care."

Another real world example:
Managers: "The food isn't coming up correctly. We had a VIP table and we were out of lamb for them. The staff meal is cold. Your employees are rude."
Me: "I agree with everything that's being said. As manager of the culinary department, it is absolutely my duty to ensure the quality of speed, service, and food to reach the highest standards, and we are currently not meeting these standards. I've begun an intensive training process that will correct these deficiencies, weed out the riff-raff, and build a team that can execute job duties to the standards that I set forth. "

100% of what I tell them is bullshit. I ride my cooks, sure, but to meet MY standards. Fuck the hotel standards.

Now, I've walked the walk. I actually accomplished what I say I'm going to. But what's important is how you handle yourself when shit's being thrown your way. Nothing is corrected overnight, but you can't tell that to managers. You can't say, "Well I just haven't had enough time!" That's a bitch answer. A politician answers with, "We are on a clear path to acheive our objectives. We know what must be done, the standards are clearly outlined, and it's simply a matter of following a critical path to acheive those standards." Keep spewing shit like this and you can take as much time as you need. Think about presidents and generals.

It's all a game.

Props for the solid info thedude. I need to get a thicker skin on these matters, rather than being fazed by the nonsense. play the game.

That politician quote is gold.

Post: #32

(03-29-2013 02:39 PM)WestCoast Wrote:  Jeez yeah listen to thedude3737 as well, no need for me to go further into this work game stuff.

Basically you know the drill, if someone is making you upset = the wrong answer is to respond with anger.

People here saying to pick fights and all that are just idiots, ignore them. That is never the correct answer in a work environment.

Anger in a grown man is the equivalent of a crying baby. Don't let them control your emotions, control theirs.

No doubt. I think I was fuming on Friday when all of this went down and I had to see what my options were. I think that reading the myriad of responses makes me realize that I need to have ice flowing through my veins at work. Keep the shit professional, non emotional, and work on my agenda.

On a side note, I respect blog and definitely like the amalgamation of game + career.

Post: #33

(03-30-2013 07:20 AM)Mark Minter Wrote:  Westcoast: I appreciate your comprehensive response. Since you're a finance guy, I'm in an FP&A role, and this guy would be considered on an equivalent level. A real North Jersey Dbag. My mistake was not following a newly enacted internal process. I didn't follow the internal process and jumped ahead and did my thing (quicker). No one got hurt, no $ lost, no clients upset.

Now here is the thing: I have evidence of several instances where we have lost money, upset the clients, etc with this guy and his group. I have been playing it cool for a while, but I'll admit this thing ticked me off. While he was right in calling me out for not following an internal policy, he could have done it after the meeting.

Also, I should mention that I have recently gotten a promotion and a few direct reports along the way, yet this guy still can't treat me with respect. He on the other hand, has gotten a new manager in the past 6 months.

I like your point about letting others find out about his mistake, but in this one particular instance, he has not gotten client sign off for the work that we have done for them and they are refusing to pay us. What's the best way to bring this to light?

I feel like I'm swimming with sharks, so I am trying to get my house in order first.

Report back in a week. Try to have face time with your boss. See if he seems fazed by it. If nothing else, just talk about the Knicks or something. Probably what will happen is nothing.

But I think you might a problem and threat on your hands. Certainly you got a challenge in the "dominance hierarchy". What did this guy have to gain by dissing you in a meeting if there was no cost to him by your actions?

But like West Coast says, anger displayed at work will fuck you up worse than anything else. It certainly was the worse thing I ever did and it can cost you, if not immediately then eventually.

So pay very good attention this next week. Maybe even write down impressions and then come back in week and let us know. If he is acting like he alpha'd you and pushed you down a number in the dominance hierarchy, then tell us.

Let me make clear what I think you are saying. A peer, at the same level as you, made a negative statement about you in a meeting because you followed a process other than the prescribed/proscribed process for doing something. and your boss was present when he said what he said? And the thing he called you out on had nothing to do with him directly? And he was more or less "ratting" on you?
[/quote]

Actually let me clarify, my boss was not present, however 2 of the other senior execs were there. I will definitely look out for the reactions next week. One of the execs was "ohh you're in trouble.." in a joking way. To which I wanted to respond "what are you in 5 grade, you little bitch" however I kept my demeanor cool and was like no problem will take care of it.

Yes, this Dbag is looking for the display of dominance. He's a guy who thrown others under the bus, has a generally abrasive demeanor, and I do not like working with him.

We'll see how it goes next week.

You are correct, he is a peer who did try to rat on me. The process did have a little to do with his Department, although nothing direct.

Post: #34

(03-30-2013 08:06 AM)painter Wrote:  It sounds like the specific issue you had at work is really irrelevant, it's just the excuse this douchebag used to get in your face and make you look bad in front of your coworkers and superiors. Everyone saying not to get mad is correct, let this wave flow right over you and keep swimming.

I was in a very similar situation. A guy on my level and his boss had it out for me, picked on me for some minor procedural, time-wasting bullshit, called me out in front of everyone in the office and made me look like an asshole. I stewed for about 24 hours over this bullshit and chose the nuclear option, came in the next morning and basically blew the entire office up. It was awesome ripping these guys new assholes, making them look like petty douchebags and getting everyone in the place so riled up the executives had to come in and restore order.

But I didn't think things through at all. I made serious, powerful enemies who were able to completely fuck me over and I got fired within a few weeks. My mistake was believing that production trumps personality. In a strictly logical world it does but that's not how the office game works. The reality is I looked like an unstable, angry, troublemaker who needed to be replaced ASAP. If I had to do it all over again I would be much more calm, subtle and devious instead of letting them push my buttons and engineer my own exit from the company.

Don't concern yourself with retaliation. Sure, some dick threw egg on your face and made you look like an idiot, in the long run that will only tighten up your office game. He's trying to take the target off his back and put it on yours. Give him enough rope and he will eventually hang himself.

Kill this guy with kindness, sit back and enjoy watching him self destruct.

Much respect for the real talk. It's true that I wanted to rip him a new one at that time, however your example shows that this would've been a bad idea.

I'm just going to stay focused on the work and I hope to see him hang in himself. I'm also looking at exit options (unrelated to this situation), and I definitely want to hear your thoughts on whether it might be worth planting a few mines for him before I leave. Once I'm ready to leave of course. I feel like this guy needs to be checked one way or another.

Post: #35

(03-31-2013 10:19 PM)Aliblahba Wrote:  When someone tries to ream me out or yell at work, I quickly close the gap, lean in making eye contact and say:

"The last time someone got away with yelling/reaming me out was in Marine Corps bootcamp. Understand?"

It always works, and they never bow up again.

That's why respect the military. You guys get a thick skin right from the start. Funny thing is that he has been told to "go fk himself" before, so we're talking about a real bottom dweller.

Post: #36

Invite him out to play some ball and rough his ass up. Or fuck his fat wife. Or invite him out for drinks, then knock his head off.

Post: #37

I appreciate all the responses. This is another reason why this particular corner of the internet is so valuable: I got a good range of responses and it helped me see the situation in a new light. I recognize that this BS happens everywhere and I'll need to learn how to deal with these types of Dbags. What's really important is that I don't blow my spot or lose my cool.

Post: #38

(03-31-2013 10:42 PM)Aliblahba Wrote:  Invite him out to play some ball and rough his ass up. Or fuck his fat wife. Or invite him out for drinks, then knock his head off.

He does have a fat wife but I'm not about to be with that whale.

I do want to make sure that he feels some pain.

Post: #39

A lot of good stuff so far. I would advise against "making him feel some pain" or "planting mines" though. Sure, he probably deserves it and you'll get some short term gratification. The downside risk to you isn't worth it though.

In addition to 48 Laws, I'd recommend reading Career Warfare by David D'Alessandro. He was the CEO of John Hancock when it merged with Manulife. It's a no-BS (published after he retired) assessment of office politics.