Post: #1

An archaeologist debunks the paleo diet:

Post: #2

Can you give a summary - what exactly does she "debunk"?

If she's asserting that our ancestors ate grains/carbs, that's one thing.

If she's asserting that clean meat + veggies + good fats (i.e. Paleo) isnt a pretty much optimal diet for humans, that's another. And she'd be wrong.

Post: #3

I've always thought "dieting wars" and zealotry was pretty stupid.

If a person eats Paleo and feels better, why would I care if his diet is good or not?

There are people who eat nothing but fruit. They follow the 80-10-10 diet and love it.

I'll admit that Paleo and CrossFit people are annoying with their dogma.

It's pretty stupid when people argue, "Paleo is the only way!" If that were true, then why do Paleo diet gurus advocate caffeine, nicotine gum, testosterone and human growth hormone, in addition to other drugs?

Clearly the diet isn't carrying that much freight if you need to take "bulletproof coffee" and a bunch of other drugs like modafinil.

(I am not anti-drug. However, it is a fraud to tell guys how great your diet is without also disclosing your drug use.)

I personally do IF and when not cutting fat, I eat pretty much whatever I want. I don't read a checklist to see if some guru put it on the "Paleo approved list." It works for me and if other guys don't approve, oh well.

If other guys do it differently, cool.

(But if it's not obvious you train, whatever dietary approach you are taking is NOT working.)

Post: #4

I read somewhere "If a caveman saw you turn down a pizza because you were on the "paleo diet" he'd stab you with a sharpened bone spear"

Post: #5

(03-29-2013 06:26 PM)RichieP Wrote:  Can you give a summary - what exactly does she "debunk"?

If she's asserting that our ancestors ate grains/carbs, that's one thing.

If she's asserting that clean meat + veggies + good fats (i.e. Paleo) isnt a pretty much optimal diet for humans, that's another. And she'd be wrong.

She takes issue with the claim that the paleo diet is at all a true reflection of how humans ate in paleolithic times. Making the fairly obvious points (to any informed observer, at least) that paleolithic humans were not eating pounds of fattened cow in every meal and that modern fruits and vegetables have been deliberately bred by us and brought from all over the world only in recent history.

She promotes food diversity as the most important factor in a healthy diet. At no time does she say that the modern "paleo" diet is unhealthy. I don't think anyone can deny that a hight volume and variety of fruits and vegetables together with quality protein is a fairly optimal diet.

Post: #6

I think common sense is key. Most people throughout history have done pretty well eating diets that contain meat, vegetables, fruits and berries, nuts, grains, and dairy. They've been reasonably in shape, and haven't weighed 500lbs, as a rule. Proportions have varied considerably depending on what was available in a given place and time. Of course, most people have also moved a lot more throughout the day than the average 21st century Westerner does, and had to do a lot more physical activity in general. People can take diets way too seriously: "oh no, it's got meat in it, I will get cancer!" "Oh no, it has bread in it, I will get fat!" "Oh no, it has grease, I will die of a heart attack!" But all these considerations don't disqualify certain overarching trends: People are increasingly fat and unhealthy because they sit on their asses all day, while eating a large amount of food, and that food is usually nutrient-poor, carb-rich, and optimized so that most people find it really delicious. Following this program for a week or a month will result in negligible effects. Following it for a year, a decade, or a half-century will see someone go from fit to soft, then fat, and ultimately somewhere in the "morbidly obese" category.

Most people who adopt a specific diet do so because they want to improve their health, lose weight, and gain strength. Obviously, with thousands of different foods, a huge variety of schedules, body types, tastes, activity levels, etc., there are going to be a variety of successful diets that will reliably improve health. Some may be beneficial for the short term, some sustainable for life, so one shouldn't take it all too seriously and get very dogmatic about "the perfect diet." It's going to be different for everyone.

Post: #7

Man, our selective breeding and domestication of vegetables is bad ass.

Post: #8

Now paleo is getting big, of course there is pushback. It's a finger in the eye of many commercial interests and the diets of most baby boomers, so naturally they have a strong reaction.

Most criticisms amount to straw men (some paleo advocates are dogmatic, ancient man didn't have Hass avocadoes).

Ditch the processed food, eat meat, fish, vegetables and good oils with some starches (white rice works for me). That's not a new diet, it's just food for humans, and that's why paleo isn't going away. Beyond strict definitions, it's a mindset which allows us to discard modern industrial junk for what it is.

Post: #9

ditching grains and dairy has improved my health and well being

Post: #10

Watch 20:50 to 21:05. What did you see?
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When describing how big the sugar cane is, she puts it to her mouth like she was about to give a blow job.

Post: #11

(03-29-2013 07:22 PM)madclassix Wrote:  Making the fairly obvious points (to any informed observer, at least) that paleolithic humans were not eating pounds of fattened cow in every meal and that modern fruits and vegetables have been deliberately bred by us and brought from all over the world only in recent history.

Talk about a straw man. People like this annoy me. She obviously has not read anything but some mainstream media snippet about what paleo is.

Its no different than someone debunking game because they seen one guy use a shitty line in a bar and fail.

The best you can do is go and read, extensively, from such sources as Marks Daily Apple, Robb Wolf, Loren Cordain etc before listening to this woman make an ass of herself. Her 'debunkings' were never asserted by any big name paleo advocate as it is.


Re: Bulletproof coffee and supplements - part of that is addiction (coffee is hard to give up), part of that are chronic health issues that are too far gone to be completely cured, part of it is making up for the inconvenience of truly replicating a paleo diet, and part of it is people trying to hack their health and milk every potential advantage they can

Post: #12

Actually, before anyone reads any further they should go and get a copy of Nutrition and Physical Degeneration by Weston A Price (Gutenberg has it free) and simply look at the pictures.

It was clear, as far back as the 1920s, that something about the modern diet was fucking people up. Maybe paleo isn't the answer but no one can assert that humans are meant to be as sick and screwed up as we are. Somewhere between following more primitive diets and our modern diet by the 1920s (even before the obesity epidemic of the last forty years), something had gone wrong.

Post: #13

(03-29-2013 08:35 PM)GoodTimer Wrote:  Watch 20:50 to 21:05. What did you see?
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When describing how big the sugar cane is, she puts it to her mouth like she was about to give a blow job.

skill level is a little amateurish but still acceptable for a ONS

Post: #14

Debunking TED

Post: #15

I have a feeling lot of people miss the point of the Paleo Diet. Yes, the Paleo Diet would be a huge upgrade over the way most Americans eat (processed foods, high-sugar, high-carb/fat, relatively low protein)...but trying to strictly adhere to a Paleo diet in a modern, agricultural and industrialized society is not all that practical and pretty silly. The primary difference between how we live now and how our prehistoric ancestors lived is that they actually had to haul ass and hunt for their own food (expending lots of calories in the process)--therefore only the fittest survived and modern problems of being overweight/obese were virtually absent. Nowadays any fat fuck can walk into Whole Foods and spend a fortune on foods that fit his "diet" that he's supposedly modeling after that of his caveman forbearers and say he's going Paleo. Making better food choices never hurts, but I just think the whole "Paleo" fad is going a little overboard and speculative at best. This Asian ain't giving up his rice just because a caveman didn't get to eat it.

Post: #16

She's debunking the faddish Mark's daily apple version of the paleo diet with their bacon wrapped steaks for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

She makes some very good points. There is not just one paleo diet, but numerous, depending on the ecology of where man lived. In some areas they existed solely on a high protein diet. In others, where fruits, vegetables, and grain were abundant, they ate what they could get their hands on. If you are a hungry paleo, foraging for food, you are not going to turn up your nose at grain because it messes with your blood sugar. As long as it's edible you eat it.

Also, according to her, most of the food that is considered paleo is actually farmed food anyway. From lettuce, to avocados to broccoli, the actual wild versions of these foods are tough, fibrous and sometimes loaded with poisonous substances. All that you see is cultivated.

Her point is that the paleo focus on a heavy meat based diet is a myth, and the actual paleo diets were a lot more varied than modern paleo proponents would lead you to believe.

Post: #17

When are people going to realise that calling it paleo and referring to cavemen is just marketing.

Post: #18

She's also making an argument against juicing.

Post: #19

the manosphere needs to get off paleo's nuts. it's a fad diet. if you do paleo then i question whether you even lift.

brb taking roids like mark sisson, danger and play, and bold and determined
brb trying to bulk on 4000+ calories a day on only meat and fruits
brb our paleolithic ancestors should have followed The Simian Diet

Post: #20

Eat starch?

Post: #21

Ever see old Mexican people? Every family has their 100 year old grandmother who drinks rum and eats mostly nopales.

Post: #22

(03-30-2013 12:08 PM)soup Wrote:  She's also making an argument against juicing.

How so?

Post: #23

Post: #24

Not much of question if the low carb more fat solution is real. Clearly the high carb low fat is a bad joke played on most of the world by their respective governments and "respected" scientists.

Read this book: http://www.amazon.com/Why-We-Get-Fat-Abo...we+get+fat

Good meat. Don't fear fat... notice when you travel the countries that eat fat and the size of the people.... Plenty of vegetables for taste... stay away from liquid carbs and you are good to go....

Post: #25

I don't quite get how she's "debunking" the paleo diet, it seems more like she's explaining it more in detail. The last half of the video sounds like she's advocating it, though, seeing as she recommends eating a diet consisting of meats, vegetables, and fruits, and to avoid processed foods, especially those containing wheat, soy, and corn. Every single paleo diet book I've ever read and every seminar I've attended has always addressed the fact that our foods today aren't the same - aurochs and mammoths are extinct, we've used husbandry, cultivation and grafting to improve our vegetables, etc. - and even Mark Sisson has mentioned on a few occasions that we have a much more diverse selection when it comes to our food, so eating paleo isn't eating EXACTLY like a caveman. In fact, our ability to choose from a variety of foods rather than the same game and roughage in our general area is most likely an improvement over the diet of prehistoric peoples.