Post: #1

I am a competent photographer. I am well versed with studio lighting, working with models, post-production, etc. I'm active on Model Mayhem, my local CraigsList and several social media outlets.

I'm interested in discussing with others who have used this angle for gaming purposes.

I see the potential for securing bangs with this, but at the same time, I see the potential for the promotion of attention-whoring.

I haven't quite worked out the technique to move from photography to seduction.

Anyone?

My primary interest isn't in discussing camera bodies, lenses, lighting or anything gear-related. However, if anyone has a question about that stuff, discussion is welcome.

Bone

Post: #2

I've thought about the Model Mayhem angle quite a bit myself. The only issue I see is that the modeling and photography communities in any given city are SMALL, and if your game is off and you blow it with a model, word will get back to her agency and you'll be blacklisted. Don't think models and their agencies haven't dealt with that a million times already. Lots of skeezy "photographers" out there trying to hook up with models. It could really fuck up your career.

With that said, if you play it like a G and don't hit on the girls while you're shooting (other than playful flirting) then you can try to incorporate some of these girls (and guys too) into your social circle, and then bang their model friends. I'd rather go that angle.

TL;DR: Friendzone the model, bang her hot friends instead. OR, befriend male models and use them to widen your social circle in your city.

If you need inspiration, look up "santiagopgm" on instagram: http://instagram.com/santiagopgm - the guy is an amateur fashion photographer from Mexico, but every city he travels to, models are begging him to photograph them because he is internet famous, a decently creative photographer, and knows how to play it cool. Guy is my fucking hero:

Post: #3

Agreed that Model Mayhem (MM) is a fairly small community and one must stay far, far away from putting himself in any situation that would result in the dreaded "Guy with Camera" (GWC) label.

Although I brought up MM in my original post, I've actually had much more luck posting in the "Gigs/Talent" section of my local CL.

I've gotten as far as a make out with a girl who responded to one of my CL casting calls, but no bang yet.

A number of the CL "models" that I've photographed have continued to come back around for follow-up photo shoots and post-production editing sessions, so its just a matter of time until I start converting to bangs

Most of these girls are as likely to find work as models as I am likely to find work as a rocket surgeon, but they enjoy being photographed and they are pretty hot. Definitely a 1 on Bone's 1/0 rating scale.

Post: #4

(04-29-2013 10:03 PM)BoneDaddy Wrote:  Agreed that Model Mayhem (MM) is a fairly small community and one must stay far, far away from putting himself in any situation that would result in the dreaded "Guy with Camera" (GWC) label.

Although I brought up MM in my original post, I've actually had much more luck posting in the "Gigs/Talent" section of my local CL.

I've gotten as far as a make out with a girl who responded to one of my CL casting calls, but no bang yet.

A number of the CL "models" that I've photographed have continued to come back around for follow-up photo shoots and post-production editing sessions, so its just a matter of time until I start converting to bangs

Most of these girls are as likely to find work as models as I am likely to find work as a rocket surgeon, but they enjoy being photographed and they are pretty hot. Definitely a 1 on Bone's 1/0 rating scale.

I find that girls can't stand not seeing photos of themself that a photog takes.

Set up a session, take lots of shots, and be evasive about letting her see them. Maybe if she hangs around after, you will let her stay during post production. But first you have to go get a bite to eat, right? Go do anything out in public and at least you will begin transmitting preselection.

Post: #5

I own a Nikon and its the bet money Ive ever spent.

So far I have been doing photos just for myself, for my own enjoyment. How to make the jump from there to "fashion photography"?

I have a genuine interest un photography, so I wouldnt do it just for the girls. But the girls would be a big plus.

How to promote your portfolio?

How to get girls to model for you? (Both amateur or professional models, or how to get women to model for the first time)

How does one goes about getting paying gigs?

So far, I have that Nikon and a couple of lenses. What equipment would you recommend as a basic setup to do model photography?

My approach would not be to bang the models, but to actually make some fame as a photographer (and then bang the girls)

Thanks for the thread.

Post: #6

(04-29-2013 10:03 PM)BoneDaddy Wrote:  Although I brought up MM in my original post, I've actually had much more luck posting in the "Gigs/Talent" section of my local CL.

Are you shooting them for free?

Paying them?

Is a client paying them?

Are they paying you?

How does this break down?

Post: #7

I was wondering about something like this as well as a lifestyle change. Perhaps get a job that gets the poontang

Thing I'm wondering about CL "Gigs/Talent" is that don't you have pay the girl something or are you offering free photo shoots? I'm just wondering what you put in your CL ads?

I'm not sure if you have a studio but where do you do your photo shoots? Most of of the "hobbyist" photographers I've known talked about how expensive equipment is.

I've only known 3 girls that modelled but their social circles were pretty small and almost always consisted of at least 1 fat cock-block and some Plain Janes....It's not like all these models have all sorts of model friends and their parties are like the Playboy Mansion parties.

Still --- let's assume like attract like and that they do have these kinds of connections and you want to bang their friends...I would wonder how you keep the follow ups coming in and develop a friendship with them?

I could understand how you might be able to do it if you were an agent and gets them gigs but I bet a modelling agency just keeps models on file in a database and if a client (like a Walmart needs models for a flyer) then the model gets called. It don't think it's like they have regular parties/get-togethers or even have enough work for an agent to get to know a girl.

As a photographer I imagine you would have to move pretty quickly and smoothly.

Post: #8

(04-29-2013 10:58 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 10:03 PM)BoneDaddy Wrote:  Although I brought up MM in my original post, I've actually had much more luck posting in the "Gigs/Talent" section of my local CL.

Are you shooting them for free?

Paying them?

Is a client paying them?

Are they paying you?

How does this break down?

G - at the amateur level this breaks down as a mutually beneficial arrangement between photographer and model. i.e. the Photographer takes photos of the Model to use in his portfolio, and then gives some of the photos (for free) to the Model for her to use in her portfolio. Since both parties are "up and coming," they both get something out of the deal.

At the pro level, it gets much more complicated. If it's a big name photographer, he'll only shoot pro level models. In that case the model's agency could pay him for the shoot.

Alternatively, a budding professional photographer might pay a professional model for her time, in essence hoping to break in to her world.

Usually though, at the pro level, the photographer and model are both independently contracted and paid by a third party client (clothing company, brand, ad agency, etc.), and are thus both just taking assignments that their rep's setup for them.

For those of you asking about breaking into this at a paid level - I have to say, fashion photography is one of the most cut throat genres of photography, if not the most. You have to be ridiculously talented and know how to market yourself extremely well to the right people. Plus dealing with all the egos in the fashion world can really put a damper on your vibe. BUT, if you can pull it off, it's obviously worth the effort.

Post: #9

I had a buddy that shot models, and I'm pretty sure he did it mostly to fuck them. He just one day up and decided to start photography. He isn't great, but goddamn does he fuck some fine girls from it. He was a playboy before though, so it was nothing new for him. But I definitely do think it up'd his notch count. He already knew all sorts of fly girls in town and had a great job that introduced him to lots of good looking girls as well. He worked right in the center of Miami Beach at one of the most poppin' spots. Damn did that boy kill it.

Post: #10

I think there are a lot of mis-perceptions on "models" here. I can see what the OP is trying to do --- develop some job where you can make money and meet hot girls.

I can see he's probably forced into a position where he might have to pay something but what the heck --- let's ignore that and assume if he were to pay a few bucks for a ever-lasting harem then I bet most people would jump at that since it probably cost less than what most of us spend on beers and cover charges in a month.

Here is some insight when I tried this thing about a year ago:

I looked through MM as well to see what I can fish out...problem 1: girl actually has a BF/husband/married and won't let her do a nude shot ect.

Solution: when on CL: post an ad asking for "couples models" be photographed with your hubby or partner for fall fashion line up! Keep these names ect on list 1.

Then post another ad to target hotties and keep these on list 2.

Take list 2 and subtract anyone who is on list 1.

Problem 2: I read on the MM forums that photographers are are pissed that their hired models actually flake on them all the time. It's like half of the girls gave it up or something and do not even show up at their own photo shoots!

I had that happen too but I guess you just have to play the odds.

Problem 3: Doing re-touching ect on photoshop ect can also be real time intensive. Maybe unless you are a really experienced photographer and have lots of experience at tweaking pics --- it takes a lot of effort. Not to mention setting up a studio, getting the equipment, etc....

Problem 4: Models on MM obviously already had their photo shoots so they can post their pics on MM. This only leaves you with CL...which have been hit hard with Russian spambots ect....and lost much of it's consumer faith a while back.

I'm not sure what is like now.

Problem 5: Like stripper game -- PUA literaure advises not to pay for anything because if you do then you become "just another client" and not somebody to have intercourse with. I guess on the flipside however --- just like when you are gaming a waitress you have to tip something.


It might have a real hard time getting this to work in my city however these days. The economy is quite strong --- so strong that no White hottie will work retail jobs anymore and almost all baristas are foreign workers! There is only a few higher end restaurants/bars that have an 7+ blonde anymore.

I like his concept --- get a job or role where you meet hotties! If you can make it pay you too then great ! But most of the photographers I knew had to have second jobs to finance their "hobby" dream job.

Post: #11

BoneDaddy,

I recently bought this camera that came with the original lense but i also bought a huge lense to go with it too.



I want to start using it and obviously I want to shoot girls with it.

Can you help me out with a couple questions?

1) Is this a good enough camera to shoot semi-professionally with?

2) Do you have any tips on how I can set up a home studio in a small apartment? Is it worth it? Or should I just shoot outdoors?

3) Any tips on building a profile on model mayhem?

Thanks!! Summer is coming so this is a perfect time to ramp up!

Post: #12

And I think this thread will be helpful for you - Entourage Game

As much self control as it will take around these models, the best way to go about doing it is through casual friendships.

After shooting her a couple times and finding some common interests (ie. going to clubs and bars) you then casually mention:

"Hey me and my buddies will be out at club xyz tonight... come join with a friend"

OR

"Hey, I am having some drinks at my place before going out. Why don't you pop by before going where ever you are going"

Post: #13

(04-29-2013 10:58 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 10:03 PM)BoneDaddy Wrote:  Although I brought up MM in my original post, I've actually had much more luck posting in the "Gigs/Talent" section of my local CL.

Are you shooting them for free?

Paying them?

Is a client paying them?

Are they paying you?

How does this break down?

Hey G,

There's a whole sub-culture of semi-pro/serious amateur photographers out there who shoot wannabe and occasionally, legitimate models who are trying to break into the biz.

In these scenarios, money tends not to change hands and everything is done on a "Time For" (TF) basis. The photographer and the model agree to work together for the mutual benefit of both their portfolios. Neither party pays or receives any money.

Parties to this arrangement typically find each other on a number of different fora such as Model Mayhem, One Model Place, CraigsList, etc.

Unbelievably, CraigsList has, for me at least, been a goldmine. Much more productive than Model Mayhem.

Post: #14

First, thanks to all the guys who have expressed interest by jumping in this thread with thoughts and insights. Much appreciated.

There are a few points that I want to address by adding some information that didn't make it into my first post.

Making Money - you probably won't. I don't do this for income. I stack far more paper in other ways than any but the most elite photographers, so I'm not interested in trying to make a living at this. I receive, and turn down, offers for paid work because I don't want to ruin something I enjoy by turning it into a lame part-time job.

Be Passionate About Photography - For anyone who might be interested in exploring this - I would reccomend this only if you have a real interest in photography. Its too much work and the necessary gear is too expensive if you are doing it only to meet girls. If you do it only to meet girls, you'll never get good enough, the girls will see through what you're doing, and you'll decide (and rightly so, I would add) that there are easier ways to meet girls. Do it because it combines two things you enjoy doing - photography and scoring chicks.

Find a Niche - When I posted up my first CraigsList casting call, I threw my net wide, too wide, in fact. I did make it clear that I was looking for physically fit, female models. I got some responses and booked a few shoots. In subsequent casting calls, I would state more specific requirements. For example, in my most recent CL ad, I indicated that I was looking for girls of color/mixed race and/or girls with tatoos or piercings. My phone and email blew up for a week. Every guy with a camera wants to shoot 5' 8" Caucasian girls. Be different. Also, use proper grammar and punctuation in when you write your ad. Girls notice this and it helps establish you as someone who knows what they are doing.

I've got more to add, but will follow up in another post. I'll have to add that I've been pleasantly surprised at the number of girls who respond to the ads I've posted. Several have been quite willing to do nudes and lingerie.

The task now is to begin converting to bangs.

Post: #15

BoneDaddy,

Maybe this isn't appropriate to ask, but what city are you in? I am in LA, I got a lot of gear that I use for film shorts etc including a DSLR. But, LA seems like a place where every angle is played. And a lot of people are pretty wise to some of the stuff guys try. But, I guess if you don't try you never know. The one good thing about this city is that new people come everyday hoping to make it.

Post: #16

@BoneDaddy Are you paying these girls or offering TFP?

Post: #17

great thread BoneDaddy. I also do a lot of photography. PM me if you want to trade links. our experience seems very similar. I've never used craigslist to find models (although I will now try it), only modelmayhem.

a few additions:

1) social proof seems especially key in this environment. sometimes I will message a girl to shoot and she ignores it. then I will shoot with one of her friends and all of a sudden she wants to shoot also. this happens continuously, and was initially irritating but now I just see it as a different form of networking.

2) these girls are generally among the best looking in their area and age group. with that comes the absolute worst behavior imaginable. it was very frustrating when I started but I now just overbook my schedule in order to compensate for flaking, which causes me to sometimes flake on the girls myself, thus completing the circle.

3) the amount of ass-kissing in this industry will make you dizzy. these girls are absolutely swarmed with "omg you are so hot please shoot with me" messages. I try to keep it simple and direct, with a bit of teasing. sometimes the girls have no sense of humor and just block me on modelmayhem. I figure that those shoots were not going to happen anyway.

any of this sound familiar? it's basically the exact same situations we discuss as "game", just with every girl behaving like a 10, and with a different reward. I see it as training to deal with super-hot girls, plus I have always loved photography, so it's a win-win for me.

Post: #18

I think the best angle for photography game is by doing cold approaches. Most girls that arent models will jump at the oppurtunity to be photographed because most girls think highly of their looks so by asking them if they would be interested in doing a shoot sometime you are validating their ego.

Ive looked through ModelMayhem a bunch but people on there are normally looking to be paid or gain something from you versus someone that you cold approach is normally just happy to be shot by a "professional" that knows how to take decent pictures and not your weekend photography warrior.

I found an article awhile back from tim ferris's blog about a guy names Jeremiah Thompson who moved to florianopolis brazil randomly went up to hot girls and did photo shoots on the beach with them and eventually ended up marrying one of the girls which is pretty inspiring considering he is just an average joe from montana

heres the link

How to become a model photographer in Brazil

Post: #19

Trust me on this, unless you really like photography, this is too much work just to meet women. Besides, many of these girls are expecting this kind of stuff. They come to the shoots with family members, friends, etc. It's much easier and a lot less work to just go out there and meet these girls in clubs etc. Besides, most of these girls, have boyfriends, husbands, etc.

Here is the irony of this. In a real photo shoot you get so tired that you literally don't have the energy to fuck these girls after. There have been times where I could have but all I wanted to do was eat something and just crash. I have banged a few girls this way it's just not worth all of the work involved for me. A real photo shoot is very stressful and draining.

Post: #20

(04-30-2013 02:49 AM)gandt Wrote:  BoneDaddy,

I recently bought this camera that came with the original lense but i also bought a huge lense to go with it too.



I want to start using it and obviously I want to shoot girls with it.

Can you help me out with a couple questions?

1) Is this a good enough camera to shoot semi-professionally with?

2) Do you have any tips on how I can set up a home studio in a small apartment? Is it worth it? Or should I just shoot outdoors?

3) Any tips on building a profile on model mayhem?

Thanks!! Summer is coming so this is a perfect time to ramp up!

To your questions:

1. The Rebel T3 is an Ok camera, but here is a pro tip. Head over to the Buy/Sell forum at http://www.fredmiranda.com or visit http://www.keh.com and pick up a gently used Canon 5D in good condition for between $500 and $700. This is not the Canon 5D Mk II or the new Canon 5D Mk III, this is the origninal 5D. This is a for-real bad ass nearly pro-level camera. A Canon Rebel is a toy in comparison. Get a 135 MM F/2.0 L lens or maybe an 85MM F1.4 (Non-L) lens, and you will be golden. The 5D is legendary for its image quality and is dirt cheap these days because it is two generations behind current technology. But for shooting glamour/fashion, it still rocks.

2. Depending on your location and climate, I would begin with outdoor shoots. Shooting indoors and setting up a studio involves a whole additional realm of studio lighting, backdrops, etc. To shoot outdoors, you could begin with the camera from #1 above and add a collapsible reflector and you're good to go. Get good with that, then maybe move on to an on-camera speedlight, then studio lighting gear.

3. Regarding a Model Mayhem profile, they do require that you submit at least three photos which must be mod approved, but unless they have tightened up their standards, most anything gets approved. If you proceed as outlined above and find a pretty girl to point your camera at, you shouldn't have any trouble getting your MM profile approved. Having said that, I've never booked a single shoot from MM, but have booked many from CraigsList.

All the best and good luck with your photography.

Bone

Post: #21

(04-30-2013 07:49 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  @BoneDaddy Are you paying these girls or offering TFP?

@Nomad, no pay, TFP only.

Post: #22

What Bonedaddy said about the original 5D is very true.
I still use it and I don't have to BUT I use it with the versatile 24-105 f4 L.

I have shot a few girls off of onemodelplace.com

There are a lot of guys out there with nice gear looking to shoot girls, so the competition is kind of tough
in this game.

Post: #23

(04-30-2013 08:57 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  Trust me on this, unless you really like photography, this is too much work just to meet women. Besides, many of these girls are expecting this kind of stuff. They come to the shoots with family members, friends, etc. It's much easier and a lot less work to just go out there and meet these girls in clubs etc. Besides, most of these girls, have boyfriends, husbands, etc.

Here is the irony of this. In a real photo shoot you get so tired that you literally don't have the energy to fuck these girls after. There have been times where I could have but all I wanted to do was eat something and just crash. I have banged a few girls this way it's just not worth all of the work involved for me. A real photo shoot is very stressful and draining.

Agreed and noted above. If you are only looking to meet women, there are far easier ways to do it. But if you enjoy photography as I do, and would be doing it any way, I think it can be a powerful tool in the player's arsenal.

It is also worth mentioning that once you get up and going and get your portfolio together, this could be some great bait to drop. "Yeah, I'm a photographer. You should come back to mine and I'll show you my portfolio."

Post: #24

#1. Rent Office Space in a Building Downtown (Showcase.com). Models will be more comfortable going to a Commercial Location, as opposed to some random dude's house. Surprisingly, this doesn't even cost that much. A 200 Sq ft. can be rented for below $375 a month. In a Major city like LA/NY it may be a little more expensive, like $500.

#2. Get some huge Photos printed up (like atleast 36") and Framed on the Wall. You don't necessarily have to put up Pictures of your Own work, you can buy some random Celebrity Pics from GettyImages.com. What are the odds that someone would recognize it? Maybe 1 in a Million. The fact you got them professionally set and Framed would quiet any doubt anyways. Should only cost $100-200 for both the actual Pics/Frames.

#3. Befriend MUA. Doesn't necessarily have to be a professional, a random girl attending Beauty School would work; infact you could probably convince them to work as an "Intern". High Status Photographers are expected to have Assistants/People working for them anyways.

#4. Once a week, go out along with the Assistant to the mall, and find a High-End store that attracts upscale Women. Introduce yourself to a girl, asking if she is a Model. Have your assistant show her "Portfolio" pics on an iPad/Tablet. As mentioned in #2, doesn't necessarily have to be your own stuff, just steal them from already establish photographer...what's the odds of them finding out?

#5. Stay in contact with them, and find out the next time they are visiting a hair salon, and schedule your shoot immediately after that. After the shoot have them send the Photos to their Hair Stylist. Then you can introduce yourself to the hairstylist, and ask her to pipeline you other girls who visit her Salon.

The only real major expense is buying the gear (Camera, Lighting, Boxes), but that should run you no more than $1500.

Post: #25

I'm thinking about dabbling in photography as a hobby. For me it would mainly be something to do while I'm out during the day in the summer months. I like exploring the city and maybe I could do some candid street photography as well. I very comfortable approaching people and don't need it as a crutch. But it would make me feel a little more productive about going for long walks.

Is it worth it for someone like me to spend a couple of hundred dollars on camera for this purpose or would I be wasting money?

What kind of camera would suit street photography, would I need special lenses?