Post: #1

I’ve wanted to discuss a personal matter with the men on this forum to gain some perspective and to see whether or not any other guys can relate to my story. I’ll apologize upfront if it’s long but I’ll owe you a beer if you care to read it. To set the stage, here is a quote from Fight Club to indicate where I’m going in this thread: “we’re a generation of men, raised by women.” You probably understand that quote really well if you’re a guy who was raised in a broken home or by a single mother, where Dad ejected from the equation long before you could even say “daddy.” In my case, that was my situation. Mom and Dad split when I was young and I was pretty much raised by my mother, although I use that term “raised” loosely.

Now, I don’t want to disparage the woman who presided over my birth but I will just give some facts (although the facts themselves may prove to be disparaging-you be the judge). She was born in the 50’s, lived raucously during the 70’s and 80’s, and had the rebellious mindset of people living in the 60’s. She was a serial dater. I watched my mother date several men over the years growing up. She would use many of them. She once told me that one man she was seeing was somebody she would never sleep with, she only wanted his money. I believe that in her heart she despised men. She used to talk badly about my father and he wasn’t around to prove her otherwise but inside my little kid mind, I resented her for that. She used to tell me that all men were pigs, and the implication of that was that I was a pig, too…although I was only a mere shadow of that since I wasn’t a man yet. I know now that my mother hated me the same way she hated men. When I was a kid, I had a paper route. I would get myself up early on Saturday and Sunday and pack the newspapers and deliver them: rain, snow, or sunshine. My mother would always take my collection and say that she would pay me back “next week” because we needed groceries. She would take that money and buy beer with it and party. I didn’t realize it at the time, but her crime was similar to divorced men paying spousal support to deadbeat ex-wives; they leech off of the labor of men and enjoy every moment that the dollar brings to them. And my mother was doing this to her 12 year old son.

All through high school I never dated. Girls found me attractive because they would hit on me and flirt with me at parties and in school. But I was a loner and ashamed of my home life because my mother was a belligerent and wild alcoholic. I never wanted to date girls because when girls would call the house, my mother would screen the calls and give each girl the third degree. This wreaked havoc on any prospects I had with dating. After a while, I relegated myself to just keeping away. Deep down, I believed some of the lies and hatred my mother spewed at me. I believed that I wasn’t worthy of affection from women. I believed that I was somehow an inferior human being compared to women because my mother brainwashed me into thinking this way and my experiences with her only seemed to validate her claims because I never really felt the love and affection of a woman; love and affection that men first experience from their own mothers. Maybe mom was right, I would muse to myself.

Fast forward many years later. While I was in the Marines, I carried out an almost vengeance-like wrath against women. I wanted them to feel all of the pain I felt at the hands of my mother…women became the object of my wrath that I savored against my mother. I pumped and dumped girls all of the time. I never quite saw women as human. Some years into my later 20’s, I started to change and desire to interact differently with women. I then met my ex-wife through Match.com. We dated for a year and got married. Several years into our marriage, we fell apart and one day she hit me with this line: “you don’t make me happy anymore.” I thought, what the fuck am I some sort of magician whose bag of tricks became stale to you. The divorce came and it changed my life. It brought out a lot of insecurities I always had but buried deep. I felt as if I had been victimized yet again by another woman. I was again the fall-guy for so many of women’s social issues: instead of looking straight into the mirror at their own face, they look at men as the problem. I went into the pit of despair because of the loss and it has taken me 4 years to crawl out, although I’m still pretty dirty from the trip.

Why do I write this stuff? Well, because sometimes when I read posts in these forums, men talk about the betas as if they laid down willingly to the social conformity pressures women have placed upon them. Certainly, there must be some validity to this. On the other hand, some men have been handed bad cards from the start. They entered the game already down before they realized they were even playing. Instead of experiencing love and affection from women when these men opened their hearts up to them, women seized the opportunity to exploit, shame, and humiliate them. I know many a good man who has been terrorized by a judicial system that rewards women for doing evil, and punishing men for doing good. Some of you may say that it’s the guy’s fault for getting married in the first place. Truth is, some men (including myself) were ignorant to the dark forces described in many of the posts on this blog: that dark force being feminism. But I am waking up to it and my eyes are open.

I also write because I’d like to hear stories of guys with similar backgrounds who have worked through their struggles to achieve confidence. How have you come to see your value as a man in light of those experiences? How have you been able to be successful with women in spite of your disadvantages growing up? I don’t want to sound like a beta head case on the Oprah Winfrey show, but sometimes men need encouragement from other men who’ve been there and have worked through their issues. To me, that is a testimony to the strength of men: we have endured so much shit in the last 30 years and yet we make sacrifices upon sacrifices that go unnoticed and unappreciated. Other times we are shamed for feeling down or tired from the struggle.

Thanks guys.

Post: #2

/thread-14130-...#pid432165

Just read your last paragraph, too long dude.

Read all my posts from that post I linked onward. I am 29, Id been with 4 girls in those 29 years before RVF and now 14 girls total when including the past 3 months since I joined RVF. (edit: wow im almost averaging a girl a week, doesnt feel like it) Take in as much information you can on these boards and then APPLY it which is the hardest but most important part.

Post: #3

I was half expecting you to be violent towards women, young boys are vulnerable to lies and verbal abuse to those they know. The mother of my nephew spits poison about my brother whenever she feels like it but he loves his dad more than he loves her and she knows it.

As long as a child has someone there to anchor onto reality then they shouldn't suffer but most often than not that is not the case.

You can trace back a lot of serial killers motives towards killing and raping women back to their mothers attitudes.

Post: #4

I can relate to some of what you say. My mother wasn't a drinker...hell i'm not sure I've ever seen her drink a glass of wine. However she would talk bad about my father and men. As a little kid I didn't really define myself as a man but a kid so I didn't take it personal but as the years went by I disliked it more and more.
My mom only dated one guy after my father. He was a good guy just a little stingy. I didn't resent her for not making it work. However I do resent her for getting involved into all of my relationships. That's when the weird part comes in. She talked bad about men but worse about women. She drilled into my head every girl was crazy and out to manipulate me to get pregnant and would cheat on me in a heart beat. As a result I denied sex alot. I was scared to engage in sex because in my mind sex would lead to me being trapped.
I just recently got over this last year at 19. It happened because I was just tired. Tired of connecting sex with manipulated pregnancies. I'm not over it %100. I'll still ask some girls to take plan b after a sex marathon where I used a condom, if I felt something was off. I'll still ask sometimes about their period if they got it or not. However I am slowly getting rid of this connection.

Post: #5

My mother is a narcissist who hates men.

She treated my stepfather really well until he was tried in absentia and sentenced to life imprisonment in his home country.

Shortly after he told her, she turned on him. The look on his face when she snapped at him to take out the trash was all I needed to know I would never get married.

No excuse for the Beta stuff. Deep down a guy knows it's wrong. He's either strong enough to be a man or he's weak and still wants his mommy. Hold men accountable for their thoughts and behavior. That makes civilization.

Post: #6

I've had plenty of ex girlfriends wondered out loud "what my mother did to me to make me so cold"? My response, she was a selfish cunt that put herself first.

Post: #7

(04-30-2013 09:45 PM)JimNortonFan Wrote:  She treated my stepfather really well until he was tried in absentia and sentenced to life imprisonment in his home country.

Whoa, what now? That sounds like an interesting story. Care to share it?

Post: #8

(04-30-2013 09:59 PM)vinman Wrote:  I've had plenty of ex girlfriends wondered out loud "what my mother did to me to make me so cold"? My response, she was a selfish cunt that put herself first.

Tell them, "She acted a lot like you."

Post: #9

(04-30-2013 10:10 PM)lurker Wrote:  

(04-30-2013 09:45 PM)JimNortonFan Wrote:  She treated my stepfather really well until he was tried in absentia and sentenced to life imprisonment in his home country.

Whoa, what now? That sounds like an interesting story. Care to share it?

I don't want to give identifying details about myself online.

I'll tell as much as I feel comfortable with.


Dude visits the US of A, meets woman.

Dude is Beta to the core, loses virginity, gets married. Can't blame dude too much because woman treats him like a king. Dude thinks it's real, hasn't been exposed to the reality in his home country.

Dude was here on work, was supposed to go back and finish the job, doesn't do it. Home country authorities are not happy.

Dude's wife goes from lovey dovey, cooking him meals, wanting to hear every word he has to say to nagging and complaining so fast he had no clue what to do.

Dude had 3 options. Get nagged, go back and die in prison, or leave her and stay in the US illegally. He's still getting nagged.

Dude was offered a dream job a few years after settling here. I'm talking pinnacle of profession, get on TV, be famous type job. My mom tells him she'll divorce him if he takes it. Her only loss if he took it: Moving away from her parents.

"Hey Jim Norton Fan, are you seeing anyone?"

"Hey Jim Norton Fan, I know a nice girl, I can set you up."

"Hey Jim Norton Fan, my wife's sister/cousin/friend is looking for a good man."

No thanks.

Post: #10

I much younger than you, but I can tell you that after my dad died when I was four something happened with my mom. Im not sure that it was that she was bitter towards men but when I was older I knew that something had been wrong with her, she was to distant. Now that I'm on my own its much easier for me to see things in the light... and get laid. She also seems to have resolved her problem by re-marrying.

Post: #11

(04-30-2013 04:14 PM)jakester318 Wrote:  I’ve wanted to discuss a personal matter with the men on this forum to gain some perspective and to see whether or not any other guys can relate to my story. I’ll apologize upfront if it’s long but I’ll owe you a beer if you care to read it.

Thanks guys.

You should consider yourself blessed by God to have even survived growing up in such a horrible situation. Most men going what you went through would have been in jail or killed by now.

I think the Marines probably saved your ass in more ways than one. Too bad it's gonna get feminized next.

Post: #12

(04-30-2013 04:14 PM)jakester318 Wrote:  \

Instead of experiencing love and affection from women when these men opened their hearts up to them, women seized the opportunity to exploit, shame, and humiliate them.

How have you been able to be successful with women in spite of your disadvantages growing up?

Glad that I finally read this.

1) your upbringing is how a lot of players, pimps, and sociopaths start out. The one woman in your life that's supposed to give you unconditional love and support you - doesn't. Thus you have a skeptical view of all women's capacity for altruism and selflessness -which means you've never had these bitches on a pedestal.

It's a shame we can't turn your horrible upbringing into a pill that just delivers the part where you don't automatically call females the fairer sex.

2) As for success with women with those disadvantages - it depends on how you define success with women

- sleeping with a lot
- sleeping with a lot of hotties
- having real choice when you go out
- maintaining a soft harem
- being able to keep a woman under your thumb, in check, under control
- id'ing chicks that have no compassion
- exploiting chicks that have compassion
- building a healthy relationship
- having a long term relationship
- having a long term healthy relationship
- having a long term healthy relationship that doesn't end in disaster

I've known players that have had all but one of these, so I know all but one of these are possible.

But I can't really speak for dudes who came up like this.

I can say for guys that get into the game that had non-traumatic childhoods - they get to a point where women are no longer *the* central focus of their lives - and that loss of distraction allows them to focus, to find something that is more worthy of their attention and life long efforts.

Sometimes that greater mission attracts even more female distraction, but most of the time the Eiffel Towers built only gain the respect and admiration of other men.

WIA

Post: #13

Read your story...and it is probably one of the reasons I don't get into the Beta vs. Alpha definitions...and sometimes troll the threads that uses those terms.

The main thing is that you learn from the past in order to make the adjustments to get the best results. I said "adjustments"...forget how they are categorized...just get to the bottom-line optimal results.

Post: #14

Here comes my shit.

I'll start with saying that I am younger than you. 20 and I am still stuck at home.

Summary~
When I was maybe 11, Parents got unstable.
Parents got rid of their own shop.
Father got a new job in Dublin (About an hour from where I live) He worked late or stayed out late and got home early.
I had basic contact with him.

{It got to the stage where I would see my Father,on a Friday when my Mother went out to work.}
They argued every night when he came home as my Mother always locked him out.

Then one day they separated. Different bedrooms, Mother's was bright and airy whereas his was dark and damp
I didn't see him much or at all. He worked later, left earlier and often skipped Fridays.

He disappeared.
A week turned into a month, a month into a season and then a season to a year.
No contact and I became more depressed and my "male qualities" more suppressed as I did not have an elder male to look up to and learn from.

My Mother's family looked after me yet they were all women.
They talked shit about my Father and that little kid was force fed.
School became difficult as I felt physically and mentally weaker than my classmates.

Social contact outside of my neighbourhood was zero.
I was embarrassed at the state of my living conditions, the fact I had no Dad and my drinking Mother.

Suicide was a regular thought, a constant companion.
Hang myself? I know loads of knots.
Slash my wrists? Ugh, No. Too messy and blades freak me out.

This all lasted till I was about 15.
He came back. I learned how to call this stranger "Father" and years later "Dad". It doesn't sound strange any more.

He saw I was depressed as fuck.
Started teaching me about optimism and how he'd follow me to the after life and beat the shit out of me if I committed suicide.

Maybe that's what you need to hear.
"I'll beat the shit out of you if..."

Post: #15

(05-01-2013 06:27 PM)Samseau Wrote:  You should consider yourself blessed by God to have even survived growing up in such a horrible situation. Most men going what you went through would have been in jail or killed by now.

I think the Marines probably saved your ass in more ways than one. Too bad it's gonna get feminized next.

yeah, I've often said that the Marines saved my ass. Maybe I am blessed to have survived that, good thought.

Post: #16

(05-01-2013 08:04 PM)CarCrashKid Wrote:  He saw I was depressed as fuck.
Started teaching me about optimism and how he'd follow me to the after life and beat the shit out of me if I committed suicide.

Maybe that's what you need to hear.
"I'll beat the shit out of you if..."

Point taken..thx for sharing, man.

Post: #17

We're all damaged goods.

But every day we wake up and we get to choose how we want our lives to look. We can choose away from the victimhood, resentment and bitterness that can rot us from the inside out. And we can choose towards awareness, laughter, light, love, play.

It's all a choice...

Post: #18

(05-01-2013 05:13 AM)JimNortonFan Wrote:  

(04-30-2013 10:10 PM)lurker Wrote:  

(04-30-2013 09:45 PM)JimNortonFan Wrote:  She treated my stepfather really well until he was tried in absentia and sentenced to life imprisonment in his home country.

Whoa, what now? That sounds like an interesting story. Care to share it?

I don't want to give identifying details about myself online.

I'll tell as much as I feel comfortable with.


Dude visits the US of A, meets woman.

Dude is Beta to the core, loses virginity, gets married. Can't blame dude too much because woman treats him like a king. Dude thinks it's real, hasn't been exposed to the reality in his home country.

Dude was here on work, was supposed to go back and finish the job, doesn't do it. Home country authorities are not happy.

Dude's wife goes from lovey dovey, cooking him meals, wanting to hear every word he has to say to nagging and complaining so fast he had no clue what to do.

Dude had 3 options. Get nagged, go back and die in prison, or leave her and stay in the US illegally. He's still getting nagged.

Dude was offered a dream job a few years after settling here. I'm talking pinnacle of profession, get on TV, be famous type job. My mom tells him she'll divorce him if he takes it. Her only loss if he took it: Moving away from her parents.

"Hey Jim Norton Fan, are you seeing anyone?"

"Hey Jim Norton Fan, I know a nice girl, I can set you up."

"Hey Jim Norton Fan, my wife's sister/cousin/friend is looking for a good man."

No thanks.

I was a lot more curious about what he was tried in absentia for back in the home country than your mother's part of the story, but if you're not comfortable talking about that I won't pry.

Post: #19

I feel privileged.

Just a week ago, I had a long discussion with my mother after she made some disparaging comments against other women in her social group that are pursuing divorces and saying they 'deserve' the money, or whatever. You know the drill. I was happy to hear all of that, and got into a discussion with her... never realized that my own mother had some definitive traditional tendencies. Also helped after she recommended me ask a girl out that she knew, she was friends with the girl's mother, the girl's sister was friends with my sister, she was cute... so I went ahead, went on a good date, made out/etc, could've banged if I had my own place (100% sure of that), and then found out later she was already seeing someone else while going on a date with me. Made my mom go 'wtf' and start seeing exactly what I meant by the hook-up culture.

Long story short: I may not have been raised perfectly, but I was definitely privileged compared to most in terms of how they were raised. My dad had a strong presence from being in the marines, and dominant. I respect him, don't always get along, but I respect him.

Post: #20

Well my story is a little different from you guys. I was raised to be a good kid. Typical beta when I was a teenager. Somewhat nerdy although I was active with sports. I did good at school and entered university with great hopes. After a few years, I remember it was the end of may, my grandmother died so I came for funeral. I remember the scene like yesterday. A few days after the funeral. I'm in my room and parents quarrel as usual in the balcony. Then I heard my mother scream. I ran to the balcony and there was a scene I will never forget. I saw a lot of blood on the floor which comes from fathers' wrist which he cut. He was staying like nothing happened. I quickly got them both in the car and took hospital. They couldn't stop the bleeding so they had to take him to another hospital. While they were putting him in the ambulance I heard him saying "I don't need you go away". It was such a heart breaking moment that I came home and cried out loud. Until the end of summer we had such depressing days that we lost 45 kgs parents and me combined. When you lose hope you believe that somebody else can give it to you. So I made my biggest mistake. I got married with a bitch which gave me nothing but more trouble. Thankfully I divorced without problem. After that nothing became better. There was always a feeling inside me that this will happen again. My hopeful future turned into a misery and I left the university. I was unable to concentrate on anything. My parents started to blame me for all the things we have gone through. The financial and mental situation was all my fault. I was even called as a "traitor" by my own mother and piece of shit and shame for the family by my father. I could'nt take it any more. Including the hopeless situation in my country, I had a lot of reasons to leave the country... Forever. Now I am far far away. Living my life, erasing the past, building the future and my confidence. I am not satisfied with myself yet but I am proud that I took a step forward.
I wonder what you guys think about this. Was I wrong? Or I should have left earlier?

Post: #21

Your mom will blame you for everything.

Watch the movie Dennis on youtube.

Seriously, watch it right now.

Post: #22

(05-06-2013 03:39 PM)inostranec Wrote:  Well my story is a little different from you guys. I was raised to be a good kid. Typical beta when I was a teenager. Somewhat nerdy although I was active with sports. I did good at school and entered university with great hopes. After a few years, I remember it was the end of may, my grandmother died so I came for funeral. I remember the scene like yesterday. A few days after the funeral. I'm in my room and parents quarrel as usual in the balcony. Then I heard my mother scream. I ran to the balcony and there was a scene I will never forget. I saw a lot of blood on the floor which comes from fathers' wrist which he cut. He was staying like nothing happened. I quickly got them both in the car and took hospital. They couldn't stop the bleeding so they had to take him to another hospital. While they were putting him in the ambulance I heard him saying "I don't need you go away". It was such a heart breaking moment that I came home and cried out loud. Until the end of summer we had such depressing days that we lost 45 kgs parents and me combined. When you lose hope you believe that somebody else can give it to you. So I made my biggest mistake. I got married with a bitch which gave me nothing but more trouble. Thankfully I divorced without problem. After that nothing became better. There was always a feeling inside me that this will happen again. My hopeful future turned into a misery and I left the university. I was unable to concentrate on anything. My parents started to blame me for all the things we have gone through. The financial and mental situation was all my fault. I was even called as a "traitor" by my own mother and piece of shit and shame for the family by my father. I could'nt take it any more. Including the hopeless situation in my country, I had a lot of reasons to leave the country... Forever. Now I am far far away. Living my life, erasing the past, building the future and my confidence. I am not satisfied with myself yet but I am proud that I took a step forward.
I wonder what you guys think about this. Was I wrong? Or I should have left earlier?

I think it would be hard for any of us to say what was right for you since we are not close to the situation you described. I can tell you this, though. Sometimes distance is what you need. After high school I left my home and my mother to go into the military. It was good for me to move beyond that time and place because it gave me an opportunity to reason out my life and my existence in a non-threatening environment. You will always doubt your decision about leaving, it's only natural. But given the circumstances you described, I would leave, too.

Hopefully in the place you are in now you will be able to reflect on the life you left behind and consider what really went on. Share your stories with others and get their perspective. It helps.

Post: #23

(05-06-2013 03:39 PM)inostranec Wrote:  Well my story is a little different from you guys. I was raised to be a good kid. Typical beta when I was a teenager. Somewhat nerdy although I was active with sports. I did good at school and entered university with great hopes. After a few years, I remember it was the end of may, my grandmother died so I came for funeral. I remember the scene like yesterday. A few days after the funeral. I'm in my room and parents quarrel as usual in the balcony. Then I heard my mother scream. I ran to the balcony and there was a scene I will never forget. I saw a lot of blood on the floor which comes from fathers' wrist which he cut. He was staying like nothing happened. I quickly got them both in the car and took hospital. They couldn't stop the bleeding so they had to take him to another hospital. While they were putting him in the ambulance I heard him saying "I don't need you go away". It was such a heart breaking moment that I came home and cried out loud. Until the end of summer we had such depressing days that we lost 45 kgs parents and me combined. When you lose hope you believe that somebody else can give it to you. So I made my biggest mistake. I got married with a bitch which gave me nothing but more trouble. Thankfully I divorced without problem. After that nothing became better. There was always a feeling inside me that this will happen again. My hopeful future turned into a misery and I left the university. I was unable to concentrate on anything. My parents started to blame me for all the things we have gone through. The financial and mental situation was all my fault. I was even called as a "traitor" by my own mother and piece of shit and shame for the family by my father. I could'nt take it any more. Including the hopeless situation in my country, I had a lot of reasons to leave the country... Forever. Now I am far far away. Living my life, erasing the past, building the future and my confidence. I am not satisfied with myself yet but I am proud that I took a step forward.
I wonder what you guys think about this. Was I wrong? Or I should have left earlier?

I think you made the right choice. Your family is not always a positive force.

Post: #24

Read the OP brings back more memories then I care to share and or recall, however I am glad i am not alone in this world and very glad I stumbled on RVF this year.

Post: #25

You are right. Distance was what I needed. I can't tell you guys how this experience changed me. I became a new person I don't give a fuck to anything right now, just a cold blooded heartless bastard without emotion. It made me more ambitious though. And eager to fuck more pussies for the time I wasted )))

By the way I will definitely watch this movie soon. It was already on my list.