Post: #1

Have you ever had the feeling that you did everything right with a woman, but when you're in bed, she says no?

Of course you have. We all have. It can be intensely frustrating. The good news is that it's avoidable. You can remove last minute resistance (LMR) from your life. Not through any trickery and not by "scamming" a woman, but simply by understanding what it is that causes last minute resistance, and helping her get past it. As usual, to really understand this topic, we need to take a step back and make sure we are all on the same page.

LMR occurs when a woman says no to sexual touching when you're somewhere where it would be reasonable to have success and you're already attracted to each other. Saying no to sexual touching can occur anywhere from touching her breasts over her clothes to putting a condom on. It's all LMR, and it's triggered by her emotional state and comfort level with you.

Some women don't feel LMR, but most do. It's not a fun feeling for her either - she gets intensely nervous and uncomfortable with a knot in her stomach. Biologically, by having sex with you, or doing things that she knows will lead to sex, she is taking a big bet on you. In modern society, sex usually doesn't lead to pregnancy, but her emotional instincts were designed thousands of years ago. That's why comfort is so important to a woman before sex.

For men, it can be deeply frustrating. You usually won't have these same emotions about sex, and hers can be difficult to relate to. An easy analogy for this is how women often don't understand how it can be tough for a man to approach a woman whom he doesn't know. "Just go talk to her," she says. Or "be yourself." She doesn't understand the pit in most men's stomachs that comes in when a man begins the process and prepares to approach a woman he doesn't know. Similarly, we don't intuitively understand the feeling women have at the end of the process.

What are we supposed to do?

Some specific tips and techniques that some Love Systems instructors have taught and found useful include persistence, arousal, minimizing physical state breaks, and the "little things that work."

Be persistent - If she says no or indicates that she is uncomfortable, you need to stop what you are doing. Any deviation from that is immoral and illegal. However, you can certainly go back one step and then try again later. If she won't let you remove her top, go back to kissing her for a few minutes, and try again later. The interesting thing about female psychology is that women are often spectators in their own seduction. It's your job to keep escalating.

Use arousal - If you can arouse her enough, she will want to sleep with you. She knows this, and often won't let you do a lot of things that would arouse her (like touching her genitals). That's why LMR can occur way before sex is an actual possibility. However, you can often get away with kissing her and being on top of her. If you rub against her in that position ("dry humping") she will often be receptive, especially if you are also kissing her neck or ears.

Minimize physical state breaks - A physical state break is where you go from doing one sort of activity to another in a sharp, not gradual, way. Women get through LMR by gradually moving from one activity to another without ever having to stop and think "should I have sex?" Many women like to be seduced, but not to have to feel responsible for sex happening. So when you move her to your bedroom, or you take off her clothes, it gets her thinking about how far she wants things to go, rather than enjoying the slow buildup. Minimize this by moving to the bedroom early or not at all. Removing her pants should be done gradually, and while focusing on other activities like kissing her.

Know the little things that work - These don't fall into a category, but they're useful. If she says "we shouldn't be doing this" agree with her, "Yes, we shouldn't." If she repeats that you shouldn't, then you have to stop and regroup, but often she won't. Never take her underwear off by itself. Either take it off when her pants come off (at the same time), or just move it to the side.

-NS

P.S. I'd love to hear some honest thoughts from women on this one.

Post: #2

Im getting LMR the last 2 occasions I dated this girl. Not sure the above tips will help. Any other suggestions?

I got the 'I'm not ready for that yet' line despite her doing everything imaginable both dates. I managed to put it in raw no problem and probably could have continued...but that's not my thing. I did it as a teaser but she still blocked me going for my rubber right after...

What's the approach wise ones?

Post: #3

I'd say go full assault on building sexual tension, if she's letting you go all out besides stick it in, act like you're gonna go down on her, get real close, breath heavy, let her feel the warmth and presence of you down there, rub/kiss her inner thighs, but never go for the gold, make her want you more then you want to be in her.

Chef In Jeans
A culinary website for men

Post: #4

so CD...essentially I have to get her to a point where she begs me to put it in??

Post: #5

(04-21-2011 04:20 PM)bigxxx Wrote:  so CD...essentially I have to get her to a point where she begs me to put it in??

...but when you don't want it anymore

I used to deal with this kind of shit a lot when I was young. Chad and Roosh are correct, you can get through it just by being persistent. But it takes time and effort, and more than once I found out that once I got there, I'm too tired for anything and don't want to fuck her anymore. Older gals know that and tend to put up much less, if any, resistance.

Personally now I just drop it immediately as soon as I hit the wall, by dropping the hints I gonna leave soon. Then I try again. If I make it more than half way further, I'll give it one more try. If not, I just drop it completely and leave. Benefits include extra hour or two of sleep, and a much greater chance of having zero resistance next time if you still decide to pursue it (usually I do not).

Post: #6

(04-20-2011 05:21 PM)bigxxx Wrote:  Im getting LMR the last 2 occasions I dated this girl. Not sure the above tips will help. Any other suggestions?

I got the 'I'm not ready for that yet' line despite her doing everything imaginable both dates. I managed to put it in raw no problem and probably could have continued...but that's not my thing. I did it as a teaser but she still blocked me going for my rubber right after...

What's the approach wise ones?

I'm at the same point with one of my girls. 2 dates (our 3rd meeting) and no play, just hour long high school make out sessions.

I was a little out of practice with so much LMR I forgot how to deal with it. Some of my tricks/moves include:

*Taking your shirt off and returning to the makeout
*Escalating to kino (lighter if she shows resistance) and slowly build up to breast play, genital contact, and/or a finger bang
*Switch positions often (her on top, sides, etc.)
*Ignore her when she says "stop" or "no" unless she actually grabs you firmly (she might do it lightly to feign being the slut she is).

The last was probably the hardest lesson for me to learn, because I instantly would think "oh shit rape rape rape!!!" Regardless of what girls will tell you, a no is usually a yes in disguise.

If you come to the conclusion you really aren't going to get the lay, settle for something beyond making out. This will make the next encounter easier, as she's already comfortable doing more with you.

For example, the girl I went out with last night kept giving me mad resistance when I went under her clothes at all. So I took my shirt off, made out some more, slowly managing to get her shirt and bra off. Pants were a no go (I got the belt unhooked), but it wasn't happening and I had to be up in 2 hours. So my pants came off and I had her give me a damn nice BJ. She later said that she didn't trust herself and that's why she didn't have sex with me. Whatever. She actually ASKED me afterward if "it was ok" that she only gave me that much.

Post: #7

Her on top is a great move. I tend to like this position anyway (much easier to make out with a shorter chick this way) and it ups physical contact by a ton. It hits a lot of her key points too. Her boobs pressing on you, her crotch on yours, and gives you easy access to her sides, hips, and ass.

Also, if she's petite and you're bigger (or just strong enough) pick her up. Lift her up and tell her (or just do it) to put her legs around your waist. Every girl I've done this with goes bananas.

Chef In Jeans
A culinary website for men

Post: #8

i never found a single girl without LMR...thats rubbish....i mean...they also want sex..then why use LMR after reaching to the point where resistence is impossible.

Post: #9

I hate LMR. There's no real easy way around it. Persistence and trying lots of different things till you find something that works for you is the only solution, it seems.

Quote:The last was probably the hardest lesson for me to learn, because I instantly would think "oh shit rape rape rape!!!" Regardless of what girls will tell you, a no is usually a yes in disguise.

What I've learned about LMR is that women just put on an act to build sexual tension. For a woman, sex is all about being overcome, so they need to resist your moves or else they won't experience much pleasure from sex.

Therefore when she resists, it's not something to take seriously at all. If a woman truly feels like she is being raped, she will do the following to you:

- SCREAM
- Kick you in the balls
- Pull your hair
- Claw you viciously

Unless she does any of the above, PUSH FORWARD SOLDIER.



BY THE WAY, SAVOY: YOU ARE GAY!

Post: #10

(04-23-2011 11:18 AM)Samseau Wrote:  What I've learned about LMR is that women just put on an act to build sexual tension. For a woman, sex is all about being overcome, so they need to resist your moves or else they won't experience much pleasure from sex.

I agree. This is why I'm strangely amused by LMR. I don't like it, but it tickles me a little to see girls--regardless of their many differences--do the exact same shit. It reminds me of when I first discovered the power of game. I love playing with it, and performing the dance more elaborately and cleverly than the last time. You don't win every time, but when you do: how sweet it is.

My most recent incident of LMR was with a middling butterface (body: 7; face: 5) who was ready to bone down, but then accused me of being a "womanizer" at the last minute and started getting obstructionist. I was pretty indifferent to her and her remarks, but I feigned being insulted, saying that would be like calling her a "slut," and strongly kicked her off of me (tits out, panties only). She rolled away off-balance and I got up, simultaneously fondling her some more, saying in a calm voice that she was "full of shit," and adding that I wasn't even sure I wanted to fuck her to begin with. I went to the bathroom.

When I got out, she re-approached me and apologized. I rewarded her by rubbing her out a little around her panties for a little while, fired her up just enough, and then kicked her out abruptly because "oh, shit, I was running late to my event" (which was actually true). I knew I'd run into her that night and figured I'd have a back-up if I didn't land any talent at the thing I was going to. I actually met a couple of (actual) cuties that night, but couldn't isolate them from their deep groups, so I had to settle for numbers.

That night, as expected, I saw butterface, who came by my place and dropped off a little "apology" cake, intimating that she wanted to be invited in. I played dumb, like I didn't get it, just to get her worked up and frustrated. I finally said:

"I'd invite you in, but I'm pretty tired."

She jumped at the opportunity and put up zero resistance the second time.

Post: #11

(04-23-2011 08:48 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  

(04-23-2011 11:18 AM)Samseau Wrote:  What I've learned about LMR is that women just put on an act to build sexual tension. For a woman, sex is all about being overcome, so they need to resist your moves or else they won't experience much pleasure from sex.

I agree. This is why I'm strangely amused by LMR. I don't like it, but it tickles me a little to see girls--regardless of their many differences--do the exact same shit. It reminds me of when I first discovered the power of game. I love playing with it, and performing the dance more elaborately and cleverly than the last time. You don't win every time, but when you do: how sweet it is.

My most recent incident of LMR was with a middling butterface (body: 7; face: 5) who was ready to bone down, but then accused me of being a "womanizer" at the last minute and started getting obstructionist. I was pretty indifferent to her and her remarks, but I feigned being insulted, saying that would be like calling her a "slut," and strongly kicked her off of me (tits out, panties only). She rolled away off-balance and I got up, simultaneously fondling her some more, saying in a calm voice that she was "full of shit," and adding that I wasn't even sure I wanted to fuck her to begin with. I went to the bathroom.

When I got out, she re-approached me and apologized. I rewarded her by rubbing her out a little around her panties for a little while, fired her up just enough, and then kicked her out abruptly because "oh, shit, I was running late to my event" (which was actually true). I knew I'd run into her that night and figured I'd have a back-up if I didn't land any talent at the thing I was going to. I actually met a couple of (actual) cuties that night, but couldn't isolate them from their deep groups, so I had to settle for numbers.

That night, as expected, I saw butterface, who came by my place and dropped off a little "apology" cake, intimating that she wanted to be invited in. I played dumb, like I didn't get it, just to get her worked up and frustrated. I finally said:

"I'd invite you in, but I'm pretty tired."

She jumped at the opportunity and put up zero resistance the second time.

That sounds like you overdid it. I think you could have gotten the bang after you came back from the bathroom. If not, you had it for sure when she showed up with the cake.

Post: #12

(04-23-2011 08:58 PM)gringochileno Wrote:  That sounds like you overdid it. I think you could have gotten the bang after you came back from the bathroom. If not, you had it for sure when she showed up with the cake.

Yeah, probably. But, keep in mind: the event I had to get to was important to me, I had a good feeling that I could pull some better tail there (there were very favorable settings and numbers), and I knew that I'd get a second chance with butterface. That's the only reason I interrupted the second round of action. I always go for one bird in the hand over two in bush, under normal situations. This was just an abnormal setting.

But, when she showed up with the cake later that night is when I let her in. I just dragged it out for a few minutes to make her work for it. I didn't want to risk a repeat performance of the earlier resistance.

Post: #13

(04-23-2011 09:09 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  

(04-23-2011 08:58 PM)gringochileno Wrote:  That sounds like you overdid it. I think you could have gotten the bang after you came back from the bathroom. If not, you had it for sure when she showed up with the cake.

Yeah, probably. But, keep in mind: the event I had to get to was important to me, I had a good feeling that I could pull some better tail there (there were very favorable settings and numbers), and I knew that I'd get a second chance with butterface. That's the only reason I interrupted the second round of action. I always go for one bird in the hand over two in bush, under normal situations. This was just an abnormal setting.

But, when she showed up with the cake later that night is when I let her in. I just dragged it out for a few minutes to make her work for it. I didn't want to risk a repeat performance of the earlier resistance.

Gotcha, the first time I read it I thought you didn't have her come in and banged the next time you saw her.

Post: #14

Sometimes girls give some resistance when you try to take off their pants.

One thing that has worked for me a few times is...

I say... "maybe I should get going". Then I start putting my clothes back on.

If she is horny and wants to bang you, she will ask you to stay and lay back down with her. If she doesn't want to bang you, she will just say "okay" and not try to stop you.

This is better then wasting your time laying around with a girl who is not gonna fuck. Plus, she will respect you for not playing by her rules.

Post: #15

(04-23-2011 08:58 PM)gringochileno Wrote:  That sounds like you overdid it. I think you could have gotten the bang after you came back from the bathroom. If not, you had it for sure when she showed up with the cake.

This is called "strategic retreat", which "shows" her you're really not needy, and not just playing games. I do it all the time I get the resistance, and typically if it ever gets to the bang again, there is no resistance at all. It leads to less overall bangs that I'd get otherwise, but the total time spent per bang is significantly less in my case.

Post: #16

(04-24-2011 08:12 PM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

(04-23-2011 08:58 PM)gringochileno Wrote:  That sounds like you overdid it. I think you could have gotten the bang after you came back from the bathroom. If not, you had it for sure when she showed up with the cake.

This is called "strategic retreat", which "shows" her you're really not needy, and not just playing games. I do it all the time I get the resistance, and typically if it ever gets to the bang again, there is no resistance at all. It leads to less overall bangs that I'd get otherwise, but the total time spent per bang is significantly less in my case.

This is risky. Often she'll whip out her phone and start texting and before you know it she's dressed and ready to leave. I think it's important to not have any breaks if possible.

Post: #17

(04-24-2011 08:12 PM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

(04-23-2011 08:58 PM)gringochileno Wrote:  That sounds like you overdid it. I think you could have gotten the bang after you came back from the bathroom. If not, you had it for sure when she showed up with the cake.

This is called "strategic retreat", which "shows" her you're really not needy, and not just playing games. I do it all the time I get the resistance, and typically if it ever gets to the bang again, there is no resistance at all. It leads to less overall bangs that I'd get otherwise, but the total time spent per bang is significantly less in my case.

Yeah I understand the idea of showing non-neediness by pushing her away. A lot of the time if I get resisted multiple times on the same move I'll a mini-one of these by turning on the lights, saying "I don't want to make you uncomfortable," and doing something else like go to the bathroom or check my email on my phone (think Style's freeze-out move from The Game). Usually they come back to me to re-initiate after a few minutes and I don't get nearly as much resistance from then on.

I still think it's too risky for my taste to do the all-in version where you say you should get going and start putting on clothes, though. The way I see it, getting to the point where I have a girl alone with her clothes starting to come off is going too far to risk the very real possibility that she'll call my bluff. I'd rather put in a little extra work if that's what I need to do to push across the finish line without unnecessary risk.

Post: #18

(04-24-2011 08:18 PM)Gmac Wrote:  This is risky. Often she'll whip out her phone and start texting and before you know it she's dressed and ready to leave. I think it's important to not have any breaks if possible.

This never happened to me. I don't even see it ever happening in EE/Russia - this would be considered a direct insult there, and a girl who did that would risk to get beaten up for that, so they know better. But even if it was, this wouldn't be a concern for me, as nowadays I became lazy, and I'd rather dump it than deal with resistance.

Now if I felt extremely bitchy, I'd call the high-priced escort right away in front of that girl, and told her to get out fast, but I don't think I'll ever meet a girl which would piss me off so much.

Post: #19

Gmac's right about the Iphone thing. Those old LMR tactics from 10 years ago don't take into consideration the massive cockblock opportunity presented by an Iphone.


I think there are two types of LMR.

There's the bullshit LMR where the girl is really turned on- her pussy is wet and you know that, despite her verbal protests, she wants to fuck. This is where game tactics for LMR can turn things around.

There's also the LMR where the girl really isn't turned. You can tell because her pussy is dry. Intellectually, she may want to be turned on, but there's something getting in the way. Maybe I'm spoiled because most of the girls I hit it with are easy to arouse, but this is a huge turn-off for me. If her heart/pussy isn't into it, then my dick does want to have anything to do with her. Either that or I get suspicious that she may be crazy if she let's me get that far but her pussy is dry.

I don't think there's a last minute way of turning things around for the second one.

Post: #20

^
   

Post: #21

(09-10-2012 12:49 AM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  ^

Ha- I did a search for LMR and this is what came up.

Post: #22

I think the best defense against LMR is to simply convince yourself that you don't need her sex. When the last girl I fucked started to give me LMR, I calmly got up and put my pants on. I said I was leaving and, as I was buckling my belt, she pounced on me. Sex was had a few moments later.

That type of nonchalance will fry all her hamster circuitry. It's almost a guarantee that every other guy she's ever been with probably pleaded and begged for her pussy when she ran her LMR routine.

I don't think LMR is that big of a deal, though. Chances are you'll fuck her in the next day or two anyway if she actually likes you.

Post: #23

(09-10-2012 12:26 AM)soup Wrote:  Gmac's right about the Iphone thing. Those old LMR tactics from 10 years ago don't take into consideration the massive cockblock opportunity presented by an Iphone.


I think there are two types of LMR.

There's the bullshit LMR where the girl is really turned on- her pussy is wet and you know that, despite her verbal protests, she wants to fuck. This is where game tactics for LMR can turn things around.

There's also the LMR where the girl really isn't turned. You can tell because her pussy is dry. Intellectually, she may want to be turned on, but there's something getting in the way. Maybe I'm spoiled because most of the girls I hit it with are easy to arouse, but this is a huge turn-off for me. If her heart/pussy isn't into it, then my dick does want to have anything to do with her. Either that or I get suspicious that she may be crazy if she let's me get that far but her pussy is dry.

I don't think there's a last minute way of turning things around for the second one.

Hmm, I've had a different experience. I've definitely had the first type of LMR, but if I'm not arousing a girl, I'm not getting anywhere close to sex. Instead, she's turned on but doesn't feel comfortable yet having sex.

As for the walk-away method to addressing LMR, I can't recall it ever working for me. It's hard for me to fake being nonchalant about it, to the point that girls have commented on it. I suspect that the chicks it would work on are horny freaks who would fuck you if you just kept trying anyway. And there are plenty of skittish girls who won't devour your cock just because you suddenly go cold on her.

There are also girls who say no to sex, but if they start feeling like sex is a foregone conclusion, that if it's happening, it's okay. They just don't want the burden of saying yes and allowing it to happen. One girl told me, after squirting several times, 'We're not having sex, but you can try if you want.'

Tuth, I think the resurrection of old threads is a sign of a well-operating forum. People get to see what's been written before, and there's less duplication of efforts. Compare with the bigger lower quality forums where the same topics pop up weekly in new threads.

Post: #24

Just me that cavemans? I force an absolute rejection or lay. Actually forcing girls to reject or get with me is one of the greatest lessons I took from Roosh, that and the binary system.

Post: #25

(09-10-2012 08:24 AM)basilransom Wrote:  Tuth, I think the resurrection of old threads is a sign of a well-operating forum. People get to see what's been written before, and there's less duplication of efforts. Compare with the bigger lower quality forums where the same topics pop up weekly in new threads.

I agree. I just like that little cartoon. It's hilarious. I was going to write "soup" on the necromancer's chest and "LMR Thread" on the tombstone, but it was too late and I was tired.