Post: #1

First off I know there are a lot of other threads on this, though as a recent undergraduate graduate after doing ample research I'm still unsure about where I want to put myself. I'm 22 have a B.A in International Relations with a minor in econ from a good school in Canada. English and Spanish are fluent and I've just taken on learning French. I do have money in the bank that I have saved 40,000 approx.

I`ve done a fair bit of travelling and I want to either live abroad, or have ample vacation time to travel abroad. So basically looking at a carrer path that will give me ample time to enjoy life...

I`ve thought of a number of different paths from here.

international teaching which seems to be the worst paying though best flexibility and vacations. Maybe even becoming a principal in international schools. Is anyone here doing this as a career?

I've also thought about degrees in Law getting my MBA or continuing with international relations at the masters level. I'm just cannot imagine the brutality of starting with 2 weeks vacation in any type of corporate job. Though the pay would be a lot better.

Ive thought about doing something on my own though think I need to gain experience in a relevant field if I'm to do that.

Im prepared to put a lot of work and suck it up if I can see the benefits in the medium term.

Just curious if anyone here has some experiences or regrets?

Post: #2

google cedo nulli. guy is in sea teaching paragliding n doing online ventures.

Post: #3

Your in a good position, I think moving to Europe is your best bet.

You might consider a few years work experience before you leave, it will help you in the long run.

I myself am looking to move back to the UK, can't beat the budget airlines and the month vacation to start.

Post: #4

With your money/language skills you could open a business in latin america outside of brazil. Parts of Asia are very business friendly and Africa also while more dificult to get something going is also an option.

For starting a business overseas I would find a mentor who might want to help someone like you out.

I would not recommend teaching in Latin America unless you have passive income coming in or are willing to bust you ass for low pay. However I believe teaching in Asia can provide a decent lifestyle with not too much work. You can check out eslcafe.com for more info pertaining to this.

Post: #5

I would go to Asia: Singapore, Hong Kong, maybe Bangkok

Post: #6

Canada has a few international youth mobility agreements with various countries around the world, Harper was over in France recently and signed some kind of youth work exchange thing (Canadians can go to France to work for 24 months and vice versa): http://www.pm.gc.ca/eng/media.asp?id=5357
Here's a list of all of the other countries: http://www.youth.gc.ca/eng/topics/jobs/abroad.shtml

You could always come out to Alberta and with me and all of the other RVF dudes in the oil patch, the oil biz has been known to take guys around the world, look at Seadog, he's working 100 hours a week in the Indonesian jungle, stacking paper and living the dream!

Post: #7

You're in good shape. Basically exactly where I was in 2006, except I was engineering instead of International Relations. First off a question, why did you do International Relations? Did you honestly have a plan, or just thought something along the lines of "I like International stuff, so International Relations sounds good"? With that sort of degree, you could probably get on with World Bank or one of those UN-ey type non-profits. But then that's more of a corporate job. I hang out with a few of them the odd time I get off in the big cities here in Indo. Pay isn't so hot, lots of work, but everything's provided and you do get to travel, just not really on your terms.

Since you have money I'd just travel for a while. I took 18 months off after school. A few nice trips, a few periods of doing nothing. Enjoyed it but got boring.

Exactly as I touched on in the thread from Scotian, if you go MBA/Law route, you will have access to int'l postings, but only after you have a few years experience, and then, if they are paying you well, they will want you to work, not take time off. And between more school/experience, that's likely 5 years out.

One thing you can consider is doing your law degree or Masters in a place like Australia. Although you're in school, it's still living abroad, and you have access to Asia easily. A friend did that, and with the Aussie school experience he was able to land a job there, and now that's he's been there 5 years between school/work is applying for his passport. Don't know if that's as exotic as you're hoping for tho. Yah it's Oz and it's nice, but forget it's on the other side of the world and 'exotic', and it's pretty similar to a normal 9-5 life with 2 weeks vacation. Or even just go do the working holiday program. Another friend did that, he has a master's of engineering, was hoping to use the right to work 6 months as a stepping stone into a real engineering job. Didn't work out that way, so he was making pizzas last time I talked to him. Good quality of life though.

I was just like you too when I started looking for work, and the cold reality is, that if you want to work abroad, have a company go to the hassle of sponsorship, huge cost of relocating you, higher expat salary, extras for benefits like insurance, and then on top you want to only work half the time, well you better bring something huge to the table. I've worked hard, did well in school, had 3.5 years experience in North America, and I'm not at the point yet. I'm starting to think beyond work for a year or two, quit for a year or two and continue like that (but might get to a point where you have a bad reputation), there isn't really any way to integrate the "English teacher lifestyle" with great pay and professional work abroad.

Post: #8

With the 40k you have, I'd suggest you go to Shenzen and Guangzhou, spend a year there, learning Chinese (Mandarin), make as many contacts as possible while living it up nicely. That'll cost you about 15-20k for that year. During/after that one year, with your contacts and ever improving Mandarin skills and being in the ground 0 of world manufacturing, start your own business and within 6-12 months, (say 5-10k for your biz) you should have a decent business generating a nice semi residual income that will give you more options to both scale your existing biz and to explore other ventures. All this while living it up big time, having a great lifestyle, traveling on your terms around Asia and the world.

Check and get in touch with these guys to see how it's done: http://www.theelevatorlife.com

All the best!

Post: #9

Yes Seadog I took international relations for just that. I have thought about the diplomatic route but with cuts to the Canadian foreign service, it seems like it will be a harder route for less pay. I'm still considering it though.

You make a good point on why a foreign company is going to contract me when its so expensive to do so. For starting something entrepreneurial a mentor would be fantastic, someone to start to show me how things work. As realistically I have no idea, I could see myself working in exports or something along those lines.

How does one go about getting a really serious mentor?

Yeah well I just went to Colombia on my own for 5 months so Australia is not too foreign, though I`m sure you can get off the beaten track even there.

Post: #10

For import/export, product development, there's no better place than China. And when it comes to China, go with the experts who are reachable. Watch all the videos on theelevatorlife.com, get in touch with these guys, go live in Guangzhou and interact with them on a daily basis for a year. Plug into their network, watch them first hand how the get things done and before you know it, you'll have some of the best entrepreneurial minds in the world not only as your mentors but as your friends and potential partners.

Quote:You make a good point on why a foreign company is going to contract me when its so expensive to do so. For starting something entrepreneurial a mentor would be fantastic, someone to start to show me how things work. As realistically I have no idea, I could see myself working in exports or something along those lines.

How does one go about getting a really serious mentor?

Post: #11

I second what VP wrote. I'm right now in SH.
If you don't mind shitty weather (continuous rains from April till August, rest of the year cooold temp), can handle the vast language bareer, and after visiting some shops deciding that the food is bad (you don't see it when going to restaurants of course, but I cook by myself and the quality of basic ingredients is horrible - I mean meat and veggies. Ever seen a carrot bigger than your forearm? An onion as big as girls head? This is about it - all grown on chemicals - bigger size, bigger profit.
In terms of doing business however, you as a white are priviledged. I experience it almost everyday. And the pay is adecuate.
Once you tackle the obstacles, business opportunities are pretty much limited by your imagination and personal limits only.
Oh, the word about the costs. Sh is not cheap as it used to be. In fact, it gets more expensive than any major city in western europe if you want to live decent life (imported cheese, wine, good quality food, some parties)...
So 2K USD/month is good for some decent life, but rather forget any extravaganza in this budget.

Post: #12

AJ,
Would be awesome to see a datasheet about living in Shanghai!

Post: #13

VP, Sh=Shenzhen
Working on it.

Post: #14

Good work saving 40k. My thought is try to preserve most of that savings by working while you travel.

I started traveling two years ago with that amount of savings, but I blew it because I didn't work at ALL. I have a passive income of about 1250 USD/ month so I am never hopelessly broke ( next check is always round the bend) but now I'm down to 5K USD and have to look for a job just like a penniless bloke.

It's way more comfortable to look for a job when you've got a year+ living expenses in savings.

Post: #15

I third what Vacationer Permanent said. Getting into a developing economy like China and building a business that later on can become semi residual is in my mind the only sensible option for young internationally minded people these days. You can also get a small amount of higher paid teaching hours a week to keep your costs even lower. Definitely head over to theelevatorlife to learn from those guys, I did and it was so worthwhile for the business I'm starting.

Post: #16

Not to hijak the thread, but how exactly does it work? Everything I've heard about foreigners working in an entrepreneurial capacity in developing countries has been horror stories. Being white everyone thinks your rich, so they try and take you for a ride. Everythings more expensive, quality is worse, cops hit you up for more frequent and bigger bribes etc.

Post: #17

Yes Seadog those are my exact thoughts. How much are you taken for a ride?

I will check out the website. Chinadawg what business are you starting?

And do you think learning Chinese is necessary if your planning on starting up a business?

Post: #18

With 40k in the bank you could move to SEA and survive 2+ years easily. Use the time to build up some online income, maybe supplement yourself with teaching.

Or get a regular job and convince your boss to work from home. Thats what I did and next year Ill move to Asia and work from there (assuming theres enough work that they still need me).

Post: #19

Road_less_taken I'm starting an import business, bringing over high end products from back home.

Learning Chinese is not 100% necessary, but I'd say you would be crazy not to. People will have a lot more respect for you and take you much more seriously. You will be able to network with the 99.9% of Chinese people who don't speak good English or are embarrassed to use it.

Although I see the best opportunities in this kind of environment, it is definitely not going to be an overnight thing and envision spending years here. One of the great things about this avenue is spending time immersed in another culture and all the learning that comes with it, the language is a big part of that. I love chatting to the guy who sells me noodles, the man has seen an experienced things I will probably never understand!

Also, whatever your thoughts on the future of China (I'm really not certain, and anyone who claims to be is a charlatan), its likely to be a major force in the world in some way. Having Chinese language skills will be an asset for life. Its not as hard as some people make out, but does require a larger commitment than other languages.

Currently my Chinese is nowhere near the level I would like it to be (been a bit lazy with it this year), so when I return after my trip home this summer I'm enrolling in classes, will study for three hours every morning, then spend the rest of the day trying to get my business off the ground.

(06-17-2013 04:06 AM)Seadog Wrote:  Not to hijak the thread, but how exactly does it work? Everything I've heard about foreigners working in an entrepreneurial capacity in developing countries has been horror stories. Being white everyone thinks your rich, so they try and take you for a ride. Everythings more expensive, quality is worse, cops hit you up for more frequent and bigger bribes etc.

Theres quite a young guys over here in China doing really well. I've also heard the horror stories, but from what I can see so far is that if the local government think you are adding value (eg not sure there to make a load of money to repatriate out the country) they tend to support you. For example where I live (a major city, but not at Beijing/Shanghai level) the government is really keen to get more foreign companies and brands operating in the city and is thus supportive if you have a solid business plan. Its kind of like a little brother syndrome, the municipality wants to be seen as having higher status and more being cosmopolitan, and there is a serious under supply of graduate jobs here, which foreign companies can help to address.

There is also a lot of support available from your home countries via the embassy/consulates. Mine has set up a meeting for me to pitch to the largest upmarket supermarket in the region, and has helped a lot with finding an import agent and distributors. Other entrepreneurs are also generally really helpful and most will sit down with you to talk you through what they have learnt.

Getting shafted is definitely a big concern here, as I imagine it is in any developing country. However treading careful and with caution, and using the support available, you should be able to avoid it.

I'm just at the start of my entrepreneurial adventures though so may be back here with my tail between my legs!

Post: #20

(06-16-2013 06:12 PM)Road_Less_Taken Wrote:  I'm 22 have a B.A in International Relations with a minor in econ from a good school in Canada. English and Spanish are fluent and I've just taken on learning French. I do have money in the bank that I have saved 40,000 approx.

So basically looking at a carrer path that will give me ample time to enjoy life...

international teaching which seems to be the worst paying though best flexibility and vacations.

I've also thought about degrees in Law getting my MBA or continuing with international relations at the masters level. I'm just cannot imagine the brutality of starting with 2 weeks vacation in any type of corporate job.

Im prepared to put a lot of work and suck it up if I can see the benefits in the medium term.

I'm liking your thinking here. Sounds like you've got a lot of strengths including your education and out-of-the-box thinking.

I've tried the English-teaching route, and while it can be an entry-level approach to living abroad, there are better ways.

I took the opportunity to apprentice with an entrepreneur in SEA, and it's been a great experience learning and working. Our website is www.Made-Men.com, so have a look to see if you think you might be a fit for our crew. Good luck!

Post: #21

Balboa,

Looked at the website, definitely sounds desirable and I'm confident I have the fundamentals. Can you explain to me a little more how your apprenticeship works, or PM me?

Chinadawg,

I know Chinese takes a much larger time commitment to learn, but how long does it take to become conversational assuming your immersed?

Post: #22

(06-18-2013 10:32 AM)Road_Less_Taken Wrote:  Balboa,
Looked at the website, definitely sounds desirable and I'm confident I have the fundamentals. Can you explain to me a little more how your apprenticeship works, or PM me?

PM sent.

Post: #23

Chinadog,
Agreed with you that the local governments in China, specially in the 2nd and 3rd tier city will do everything they can to support you. What makes China such a monster of opportunity is the fact that there are over 100 cities with a population of over a million. That is a staggering fact which spells humoungous opportunities! I'm even seriously thinking of not making GZ my base when I return there but rather a 2nd tier city, be a pionner there, learn as much Chinese as possible and then get into importing products from overseas, specially luxury products into that 2nd tier city. The domestic market in China is the biggest in the world and with the ever exploding purchasing power of the middle class in China, the biggest opportunities are into selling to them.

You need to start a blog man and document your thoughts and experiences there as I'm sure a LOT of people would be highly interested in what you have to say about your experiences living and doing business in China. Which city in China are you located? If you don't want to disclose it publically, pm me as I'd like to set up a kind of mastermind with people currently in China.

RLT,
from my understanding and having spoken to people in China when I was there, it can take anywhere from 1 to 2 years depending on how much you commit to it.

Balboa,
Cool site and premise! Your apprenticeship looks similar to what xsplat is doing. Are you guys partners? Either way, PM and tell me more about it as it sounds interesting.

Post: #24

(06-18-2013 10:32 AM)Road_Less_Taken Wrote:  Balboa,

I know Chinese takes a much larger time commitment to learn, but how long does it take to become conversational assuming your immersed?

I'd say a year to a year and a half. It really depends on how much time you can devote to studying. First couple of months are really tough pronunciation wise, then you start getting it. I'm not at that stage despite being here since September last year (except a 5 week break) due to aforementioned laziness with studying. Bit annoyed with myself. You are in a good position as you already have learnt another language and have developed learning strategies.

If your not to sure about what to do with yourself, I would recommend getting out there and trying a bunch of stuff and seeing what suits you. Thats what I've been doing for the last 3 or 4 years (I'm in my mid-twenties) and I've now reached a stage where I have focus and solid goals. You are young, educated, internationally minded and have money in the bank. The world is your oyster

Post: #25

(06-18-2013 03:06 PM)Vacancier Permanent Wrote:  Chinadog,
Agreed with you that the local governments in China, specially in the 2nd and 3rd tier city will do everything they can to support you. What makes China such a monster of opportunity is the fact that there are over 100 cities with a population of over a million. That is a staggering fact which spells humoungous opportunities! I'm even seriously thinking of not making GZ my base when I return there but rather a 2nd tier city, be a pionner there, learn as much Chinese as possible and then get into importing products from overseas, specially luxury products into that 2nd tier city. The domestic market in China is the biggest in the world and with the ever exploding purchasing power of the middle class in China, the biggest opportunities are into selling to them.

You need to start a blog man and document your thoughts and experiences there as I'm sure a LOT of people would be highly interested in what you have to say about your experiences living and doing business in China. Which city in China are you located? If you don't want to disclose it publically, pm me as I'd like to set up a kind of mastermind with people currently in China.

I think that would be a wise move. I'm based in Chongqing municipality, have been living in a smaller city but moving to the main city in September. I think there are huge opportunities here. For such a major city there is a surprisingly small foreign population and influence. The city is really underdeveloped in that respect. With the local GDP what it is (almost twice the national average last year) I think that is going to change soon. I expect the first year to two years to be tough, but if I play my cards right and build a good network it should be boomtimes after that. We also a sub two hour train ride from Chengdu, another rapidly developing city (more developed in the foreign influence side).

Agree the amount of large cities is staggering. Most of those still are fairly undeveloped. So much opportunity, just got to pick the right one.

Will be setting up a blog as soon as I get back to the UK and make formal agreements with my suppliers.

Don't want to completely hijack the thread so will PM you more details/questions!