Post: #1

Definition of frenemy - person or group that is friendly toward another because the relationship brings benefits, but harbors feelings of resentment or rivalry.

I am usually quick to cut off unloyal people from my life. Since i was a kid, i hardly ever gave a second chance to people who were unloyal to me. I come from a family where we have strong principles such as: somebody lends you something, you must give it back, somebody lends you money, you must pay it back, what is not yours, its not yours, you dont steal from friends or family or whoever invited you into their homes. As i grew older i always made sure that i was surrounded by people who i could trust, i never saw the point of hanging out with people who were unloyal to me. The older i get, the more i notice that the majority of people are unloyal, and that it is very hard to find people who are loyal, specially with money.

I spend less time in London than ever before and i have noticed that i have less people to hang out with comparing to years ago and less parties to attend (before i was invited to a party every friday and saturday), i know part of that is because i am always travelling but i believe one of the main reason is that i cut off a LOT of people from my life.

Let me give a quick example: There was this dude that was my close friend for few years, he is probably the best player i have ever met and hanging out with him really got my game on some super level. We lived together for a year, fucked a lot of chicks, video recorded bitches, gangbanged house wives, we would back up each other whenever we got into a fight, he was very red pill about life and he brought a lot of value to my life. Then one day when i told him that i was going to travel for a while, i told him that he probably wants to go live back at his house. When he was packing his shit, he stole some stuff from my house (cd, shorts and some other shit). I noticed that after few days of his departure, i called him and told him that he had 2 days to bring my shit back or we would have a serious problem. He brought most of my shit back and one thing that was missing he told me it wasnt him, for me to look properly at my house. From that day i just thought "fuck this dude", he lived in my house for a year, i didnt even charge him rent (the rent i was paying was very minimal anyway, no more than 100 dollars a month) and this is the thank you i get, i am not hanging out with him again.

He tried to call me few times after that but i showed him that i had no interest in hanging out with him again.

I have this "friend" who challenged my approach last time we talked. He said that i shouldn't cut off somebody from my life just because they were unloyal to me, he told me i may need these people again in the future. He told me i could just keep them as friends but trust them less, so if for example i lent somebody money and he didn't pay it back, next time he needs money again, i just don't lend him anymore but we can still be friends. He also said"You know that a friend can steal something from your house? Well, dont allow them to come into your house but you guys can hang out in clubs and shit like that".

I wonder if my approach is somewhat distorted in relation to be quick to cut off people from my life. Many of you have more life experience than me, i would be glad if i could get some advice on this.

Is it better to hang out with a frenemy or get rid of them for good? Of course the majority of fake friends are not worth our time, but what about somebody that actually gives you value but fucked up some loyalty laws, is there an exception for that type of person?

Note: I am not bitching about this, i just want to find out if I am taking the best approach on this.

Mods: I am putting on this section because i believe this is part of lifestyle management but feel free to move it on the everything else section if you believe that is the right section.

Post: #2

I'm pretty ruthless about this type of thing. I have no patience for people I can't trust and don't make room for these type of people in my life. I can see your friend's point but it just seems like a political approach to life and I honestly wouldn't have the energy for it.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #3

I was taught ALL friend ships are based on using one another. Think about it?Except for those childhood friends, most people form relations with people they get something from. When you no longer get something from the relationship you move on. if you enjoy clubbing with him, you are getting something from the relationship. NO reason NOT to be friends. But don't consider him a trusted , like family friend.Pretty simple.
That being said , you obviously missed the term "friends shouldn't be lenders,nor borrowers". You really shouldn't lend people money. I am not talking about cab fare for a drunk friend who is short.
Most guys i know who have to lend money to family ,consider the money a gift.

Post: #4

I like where your head is at Pitt. Dont keep dishonest people around. But IF the guy brought everything back except 1 thing? What makes you reluctant to give him the benefit of the dobut? With close friends I give them the benefit of the doubt. IF he borrowed your laptotp and and its broken now, well Id expect him to pay up, but maybe he didnt take that 1 thing your talking about. Or he did take it and it was stolen/lost and he legitimately doesnt think he has/had it. Shit happens dude. If you can live with a guy for 1 year and be okay, thats a big deal. Most people cant stand others after 1 year living together...

Anyway, just food for thought. Thats like giving your friend the ultimate frienship test where he needs to rescue you "stranded at the side of the road" at 3am on a work night and cutting him off as a true friend because he didnt answer his phone. Battery could have been dead...

Post: #5

(07-14-2013 12:57 PM)defguy Wrote:  I like where your head is at Pitt. Dont keep dishonest people around. But IF the guy brought everything back except 1 thing? What makes you reluctant to give him the benefit of the dobut? With close friends I give them the benefit of the doubt. IF he borrowed your laptotp and and its broken now, well Id expect him to pay up, but maybe he didnt take that 1 thing your talking about. Or he did take it and it was stolen/lost and he legitimately doesnt think he has/had it. Shit happens dude. If you can live with a guy for 1 year and be okay, thats a big deal. Most people cant stand others after 1 year living together...

Anyway, just food for thought. Thats like giving your friend the ultimate frienship test where he needs to rescue you "stranded at the side of the road" at 3am on a work night and cutting him off as a true friend because he didnt answer his phone. Battery could have been dead...

yeah i see what you mean but it was not the only incident with this guy. Few years before that, i was fucking this girl and then i made her fuck him as well. But she wasnt feeling him much because she liked me a lot..he was trying to fuck her again..called her..snitched on her that i was fucking this other girl and then this girl didnt want to see me anymore (she called the other girl i was fucking and they had a big argument). This guy didnt get to fuck this girl again and literally his snitching got him nowhere. It was a blue pill move coming from a red pill guy, I stopped talking to him for a while and then when we became friends again we became tighter than before.

He also made a lot of calls from my house phone till i got this expensive phone bill at my house..I called him out on that and he paid off everything (this was the only serious incident we had when were living together).

I know i cant trust this dude around my house again but he brought a lot of value in my life during the time we were friends (not just in terms of game).

p.s. I dont like the fact that i am getting too personal on here but i think i get better advice this way.

Post: #6

(07-14-2013 01:53 PM)pitt Wrote:  yeah i see what you mean but it was not the only incident with this guy. Few years before that, i was fucking this girl and then i made her fuck him as well. But she wasnt feeling him much because she liked me a lot..he was trying to fuck her again..called her..snitched on her that i was fucking this other girl and then this girl didnt want to see me anymore (she called the other girl i was fucking and they had a big argument). This guy didnt get to fuck this girl again and literally his snitching got him nowhere. It was a blue pill move coming from a red pill guy, I stopped talking to him for a while and then when we became friends again we became tighter than before.

Pitt, do you really think people change? Of course he would fuck you over again if he had the chance. Deep down you really should have known that just from what you wrote above.

I had a great friend who ended up getting into business with me. I had the whole thing setup and even put some of my other real estate deals on hold in order to focus on our partnership.

The guy got greedy and he wasted my time. Not only that, but I lost a ton of money on the other deals that ended up falling apart because I didn't focus on them.

We are still friends. I still consider the guy a good friend. I just don't trust the dude when it comes to business. I know if I really needed his help with something like moving he would be there for me.

I think you need to set boundaries for your friendships. Very few friends will be relationships like family. That doesn't mean you can't have good friends, just know what type of relationship you have with them.

Your friend would be good for hanging out, banging women and having fun. Not for living together or relying on him for anything else. He proved that when he snitched on you only to prove it again and again. That is who he is.

Post: #7

worldwidetraveler Wrote:I think you need to set boundaries for your friendships. Very few friends will be relationships like family. That doesn't mean you can't have good friends, just know what type of relationship you have with them.

Your friend would be good for hanging out, banging women and having fun. Not for living together or relying on him for anything else. He proved that when he snitched on you only to prove it again and again. That is who he is.

@worldwidetraveler That is precisely the problem! Us young up and coming guys with little to no experience read things like this and get the wrong idea. You arent friends with that guy who fucked you over. Yall are maybe associates or drinking buddies. But that guy isnt your friend.

Friends is a term looseley thrown around with lots of implied meaning. And a result of that is people learn bad habits and come onto these forums for help to unlearn those bad habits. If you cant trust someone 100% they arent your friend. We cant choose our family, but generally speaking we trust them. Friends are the family we choose for ourselves, the ones we choose to trust 100% and help and be helped by.

@Pitt if you choose not to trust this guy 100% based on his actions then cutting him out of your life may be the best course of action. You can keep him as a "friend" (read associate) whom you go gaming with and maybe some social activities but like Worldwidetraveler says, clearly define your relationship with that person.

Post: #8

(07-14-2013 02:37 PM)defguy Wrote:  

worldwidetraveler Wrote:I think you need to set boundaries for your friendships. Very few friends will be relationships like family. That doesn't mean you can't have good friends, just know what type of relationship you have with them.

Your friend would be good for hanging out, banging women and having fun. Not for living together or relying on him for anything else. He proved that when he snitched on you only to prove it again and again. That is who he is.

@worldwidetraveler That is precisely the problem! Us young up and coming guys with little to no experience read things like this and get the wrong idea. You arent friends with that guy who fucked you over. Yall are maybe associates or drinking buddies. But that guy isnt your friend.

Friends is a term looseley thrown around with lots of implied meaning. And a result of that is people learn bad habits and come onto these forums for help to unlearn those bad habits. If you cant trust someone 100% they arent your friend. We cant choose our family, but generally speaking we trust them. Friends are the family we choose for ourselves, the ones we choose to trust 100% and help and be helped by.

@Pitt if you choose not to trust this guy 100% based on his actions then cutting him out of your life may be the best course of action. You can keep him as a "friend" (read associate) whom you go gaming with and maybe some social activities but like Worldwidetraveler says, clearly define your relationship with that person.

The world isn't black and white yet some of you guys try to paint it as such. We have our own definition of friendship and it isn't a universal one.

My friend has helped me in many ways. Like I said, you are just seeing black and white much like most of society. I help people all the time I am not friends with. I do it because I want too not because I am their friend. I don't expect anything from anyone unless they want to do it. That is why I don't define my friendship based on what people do for me. I just sounds so narcissistic to look at a friendship that way. I just accept it for what it is and life is much easier because of it.

Post: #9

Once a thief, always a thief. Worthless group of people. I was taught to never lie, cheat or steal. Cheat as in ripping people off, not as in on your girlfriend. You also never snitch.

Loyalty and honesty are a man's two most important virtues. If a man is loyal and honest, he has worth. Even if he is a drunk, drug addict, cant hold a job, whatever his flaws may be, if he is honest and loyal he may still make a great brother.

I would rather have a jobless drunk who is loyal and honest as a friend than a rich liar who has lots of connections and women. I will respect the jobless drunk 1000x more, even if he can be a royal pain in the ass.

My dad always told me if you can count your true brothers on one hand, that you are a lucky man. I have a lot of acquaintances, and people who are friends that I bullshit with at the bar, but very few brothers. The kind of person you can call on when you are really in trouble.

Another one of the most important things my dad taught me is that your brother isn't always right, but he's always your brother. You have to back him up no matter what, and handle your personal issue with what he did at a later time. Very important code that everyone should live by, imo.

Post: #10

Ive always thought that if i acted correctly, like admiting when i fucked up and asking forgiveness, never talking behind someones back, never putting people down and all those codes of honor that all "men" should, i would be very popular among people or at least respected and admired. Unfortunately the most popular guys i know act like straight up bitches, no honor, backstabbing, talking shit about someone who was just there 5 minutes ago. I only have one true friend right now and i have cut out dozens of people of my life, it gets lonely sometimes but i wouldnt have any other way. Maybe its just lack of maturity on their part since most of them are in their 20s cause older guys ive known dont give a fuck about such things anymore.

Post: #11

their loss

Post: #12

(07-15-2013 02:00 AM)dog24 Wrote:  Ive always thought that if i acted correctly, like admiting when i fucked up and asking forgiveness, never talking behind someones back, never putting people down and all those codes of honor that all "men" should, i would be very popular among people or at least respected and admired. Unfortunately the most popular guys i know act like straight up bitches, no honor, backstabbing, talking shit about someone who was just there 5 minutes ago. I only have one true friend right now and i have cut out dozens of people of my life, it gets lonely sometimes but i wouldnt have any other way. Maybe its just lack of maturity on their part since most of them are in their 20s cause older guys ive known dont give a fuck about such things anymore.

I don't think age matters as much as character. I've had friends in their 40s that acted like this.

Post: #13

I don't know, maybe I'm a little bitch, but most of that stuff you said I would probably let slide. CDs and shorts? Especially for something like that I think I would be inclined to give someone the benefit of the doubt. Why wouldn't he take good stuff like money or electronics? An otherwise honorable guy decides to start taking stuff from you in the capacity of CDs with music/software you can just download and second hand shorts? I have stuff from my friends from years ago, they have my things, honestly I'm not going to start go making threats and cutting people out of my life for stuff that is frankly immaterial in the big picture. It isn't a sign of disrespect, it's a sign that people live busy lives, and a few obsolete CDs frankly isn't even worth the half hour it would take to find, let alone the time and gas to take them back. Maybe clothes get mixed up in the laundry. You went on a trip, they got mingled and then never found their correct spot. Basically there are plenty of reasonable explanations as to why he ended up with a few or your (particularly low ticket) items, but you go jumping off the gun and making threats. Maybe getting a bit side tracked, but are you really gonna go try and kick someones ass over something like that? This is the kind of thing where even if you win, you lose.

The fact you even brought up that you weren't charging him rent makes it sounds like you feel he owes you for letting him piggy back on your good housing deal. But you conveniently don't feel you owe him for him getting your game to a super level? People pay thousands of dollars for advice like that.

I kind of take the opposite tact. Generally believe people are honest, and give them the benefit of the doubt. It works good for me.

While I think there comes a time and place to cut people out of your life, I'd suggest that you are jumping to conclusions way too quickly and people's true intentions.

When I left room mates houses before its very possible that I took some of their DVDs or left some of mine there, or a pair of gym shorts, or the steak knives or whatever else. For small stuff like that I'm operating on a best guess system. To me it's just not that big of a deal, and I'm not going to put that much effort into it for what amounts to $50-$100 over a couple year relationship. Now if these guys called me up, started demanding petty things back, and making threats, I would give them back, and then probably cut them out of my life. Because they'd have shown *them* selves as petty, whiney, and quick to make threats (short fuse). Those are qualities in people I don't need in my life.

Post: #14

I have a problem like this as well. In my friendship group of about 10 people there this one really tall, lanky guy (6ft 4 and very skinny) who constantly gives me shit. I don't want to sound whiny, but he always tries to mock me for going to the gym, being stupid etc (even though I'm definitely smarter than him). It wouldn't matter, but he has a really nice house where we go for pre drinks and he always tries to either say theres no room or insult me. Its reasons like this that make me look forward to university where you dont have to put upnwith people who piss you off. Anyway. Any advice?

Post: #15

(07-15-2013 01:35 AM)RioNomad Wrote:  Another one of the most important things my dad taught me is that your brother isn't always right, but he's always your brother. You have to back him up no matter what, and handle your personal issue with what he did at a later time. Very important code that everyone should live by, imo.

What if your brother was this guy? Would you still have his back?

Post: #16

You can't trust every person with everything. Some guys I trust with money but not girls. And vice versa. Everyone is different. I trust no one with my car though.