Post: #1

Do you guys get fatigued from staying in the FSU for 3 or more continuous months? I was ready to stay in Ukraine for maybe 6 months, but as I approach my third month in Odessa, I feel tired, and I can't exactly explain why.

Is it the constant labor for getting laid? The lack of ONS freebies where a girl just decides she wants to bang for the night? Learning Russian? Speaking Russian? Limited shopping opinions? Stoic and tight attitudes of the local populace? Horrible restaurant service?

I wonder if that's telling me all I need to know about whether Ukraine is a place I can live in long-term. Even though Odessa is no Kharkov, I'm aching for somewhere more in Central Europe, of a more "normal" place. I wonder if you need a specific personality to actually live here. I may not have it.

I'd definitely come back to Ukraine, but I just can't see myself doing more than short stints.

Post: #2

(08-20-2013 03:21 PM)Roosh Wrote:  Do you guys get fatigued from staying in the FSU for 3 or more continuous months? I was ready to stay in Ukraine for maybe 6 months, but as I approach my third month in Odessa, I feel tired, and I can't exactly explain why.

Is it the constant labor for getting laid? The lack of ONS freebies where a girl just decides she wants to bang for the night? Learning Russian? Speaking Russian? Limited shopping opinions? Stoic and tight attitudes of the local populace? Horrible restaurant service?

I wonder if that's telling me all I need to know about whether Ukraine is a place I can live in long-term. Even though Odessa is no Kharkov, I'm aching for somewhere more in Central Europe, of a more "normal" place. I wonder if you need a specific personality to actually live here. I may not have it.

I'd definitely come back to Ukraine, but I just can't see myself doing more than short stints.

I thought you are living there to improve your lifestyle, this sounds like a downgrade to me.

Post: #3

I could not comment about the length as all my visits are much shorter. I do agree that if the girls were not attractive in Ukraine then there is not much to do there.
But then again, girls are major factor in our decisions.

Post: #4

I am shocked you picked Odessa over Kiev,Lviv or anywhere to be frank...
Is the language learning coming along?
That being said most expats usually need to take a short getaway to Western Europe(Poland?) every few months.
Tired maybe from that un explained Smell they are experiencing? or the water.

Post: #5

The lack of english speakers puts you at a disadvantage. I can see that being difficult to get used to especially since learning Russian is a challenge. Im sure its been said on this forum before infact maybe even from you Roosh but going anywhere for the women alone is a recipe for disaster.

Post: #6

(08-20-2013 04:36 PM)bacon Wrote:  The lack of english speakers puts you at a disadvantage. I can see that being difficult to get used to especially since learning Russian is a challenge. Im sure its been said on this forum before infact maybe even from you Roosh but going anywhere for the women alone is a recipe for disaster.

"going anywhere for the women alone is a recipe for disaster"

Well said Bacon, that should be the golden rule of any International Playboy!

Post: #7

It always seems like guys who live in Ukraine/Russia really are just dealing with a whole host of negative things for nothing but chicks.

I think you've been too enthralled by some blonde ass. It seems like you're suffering for no good reason.

Post: #8

I am Russian, but I don't go to FSU to game because there's just not much else going on, and even the chicks are not that easy (compared to SouthEast Asia, for example).

Some people go to tourist destinations outside of Russia/FSU but popular among Russians to game Russian chicks: for example, Turkey, Thailand, Egypt. I have some experience doing that and hear a lot about these places from my friends, so I'll probably write a datasheet at some point.

Post: #9

(08-20-2013 03:21 PM)Roosh Wrote:  Odessa is no Kharkov

Is it better than Kharkov? Is Odessa more comfortable?

Post: #10

(08-20-2013 04:32 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  I am shocked you picked Odessa over Kiev,Lviv or anywhere to be frank...
Is the language learning coming along?
That being said most expats usually need to take a short getaway to Western Europe(Poland?) every few months.
Tired maybe from that un explained Smell they are experiencing? or the water.

I wanted a summer vibe, so I picked Odessa.

My Russian is getting decent. I run game mostly in Russian, along with dates, etc. My sentences are basic and my grammar sucks, but I'm being understood.

(08-20-2013 05:27 PM)The Duke Wrote:  

(08-20-2013 03:21 PM)Roosh Wrote:  Odessa is no Kharkov

Is it better than Kharkov? Is Odessa more comfortable?

Yes it's more comfortable. More cafes and restaurants, better architecture, and nicer people. Odessa has more foreigner fatigue, but it's easily workable once you show that you know Ukraine.

Post: #11

(08-20-2013 03:21 PM)Roosh Wrote:  Do you guys get fatigued from staying in the FSU for 3 or more continuous months? I was ready to stay in Ukraine for maybe 6 months, but as I approach my third month in Odessa, I feel tired, and I can't exactly explain why.

Besides being assaulted by my landlord's whole family in Lviv so they could force me to move out in favor of a higher-paying tenant, I suffered from the same thing. I think it's a combination of factors, which vary in importance.

Of course if your youngish, have game, you get way more model-type chicks there.

BUT:

There are subtle things that we are probably only aware of subliminally, such what I saw as the pervasive mistrust there.

I never really realized how much the economy of 1st world countries depends on a basic level of trust between strangers. Of course there are pockets in ghettos where there is high crime, but--

I am in a very good university town-- so was Lviv. It's totally different here. I don't even know who my landlord is. It's a faceless corporation, but the guys who come and fix stuff that goes wrong are totally polite. The office workers where I sign my lease are college grads and also friendly and polite.

Everyone I deal with living in the building and in management seems actually pretty aware to quite a high degree of making their interactions with you pleasant and are quite attuned to your mood and how you react to their communications.

In Lviv, I met an older man who was a neighbor, an older man seemingly ravaged by alcohol teetering around and I said "Hi" to him.
He just glanced at me and made no response. Everyone is suspect.

Most Ukraine shopkeepers, etc, are fairly calm and try to be helpful, but the level of carefully veiled suspicion (behind a stone face) is much higher, and friendliness much lower.

The stoicism Roosh mentions is not bad in itself, but inevitably raises the question "There's some reason that they are stoic.-- what is it? "


I've been the first to bitch about the narcissism of Americans, but after seeing the FSU alternative, I see there's a positive side to the pride of Americans.

The value system of the USA is basically a liberal ( in the good sense, meaning wanting people to be able to get along even though they're different) Protestantism. In Protestantism, you are "saved" by works, by what you do for others. This contrasts to older forms of Christianity where you are saved by grace. It is a more real-world oriented form of Christianity. This is best seen in the Midwest. When I worked with the poor there, the Lutherans there built a temporary residence house--tradesmen donating skilled labor-- for runaways there that was like a 500K middle class home in California. It was nicer than any place I ever lived.

So the narcissism of Americans includes doing a good job and part of that is keeping the customer happy. It means having the basic psychological sophistication to realize win-win is a far more efficient and better long term general means of getting along than ( I win- you lose)as shown by my illegal eviction by my landlord. they made $100 extra that month!! It seems bizarre to me they risked violent retribution for this.

Ukraine has been traumatized all the way through the 20th century. Traumatizing someone does not make them nice. It makes them suspicious bullies when they see a chance.

Yes the women are deferential out of necessity, but there is a basic and superior understanding of the benefits of cooperation in the USA. It's why -- despite the howling that we're circling the drain-- I'm still here-- and so are the vast majority of the howlers.

Actions speak louder than words.

First World countries are smarter than most other people in the world. That's why they're a lot richer. Invent vaccines, the internet, airplanes, telephones, the internal combustion engine, the light bulb, before you disagree. It has had negative sequelae-- obesity, bitchy girls-- but smart people understand: You get more flies with honey than you do with vinegar.

And I believe-- Against stupidity the gods themselves struggle in vain. (Goethe)

The only way to deal with stupid is to get away from it. And it's what a large part of the best Ukrainians have been doing for decades.

And all this has a feedback effect, at both ends of the immigration-emigration pathway. The girl who was in my apartment when I was assaulted was from a fine family--everyone a college graduate-the kind of people that leave Ukraine. Her sister already has. My charming, long-legged 19 year old Ukrainian tutor left for Canada- and says she is never going back. After I caused a distraction allowing me to flee my assaulters, my cute young friend stayed there and argued with the monkey family about their brutality. I kept calling to her to leave as I was afraid they would assault her.

Later I saw her post on Facebook a meme they pass around there: "Will the last person to leave Ukraine please turn the lights off ?"

Often, the finest, brightest people get out. And come here, or somewhere like it.

Post: #12

Living for over a year in Odessa made me happy when I left. I could do months but would need to get out of there after two to three months.

It is just a daily grind that wears on you. Even what would be simple back home is a bitch there that can be drawn out for weeks.

Post: #13

'Besides being assaulted by my landlord'
what did they do?

Post: #14

Go to Romania Roosh.

Post: #15

(08-20-2013 07:02 PM)fernandes Wrote:  'Besides being assaulted by my landlord'
what did they do?

Basically father, son, mother ( the instigator) , and the daughter all came to my apartment while I still had a weeks more rent paid, shoved me around, pushed me to the floor, forcing me to leave while refusing to let me take a lot of my valuables. They basically robbed me in my apartment.

These are relatively wealthy people there-- the apartment is worth about 100K --it would be very rare for a landlord in the USA to pull stuff like this outside of a hellish ghetto. I've mentioned elsewhere that at least half of the expats I've dealt with faced thuggish behavior from their Ukrainian landlords, including one getting in a fistfight with one.

People don't crow about this stuff because it doesn't make you look real Alpha.

I strongly recommend getting a Western ( Brit, American, etc) landlord if you rent in Ukraine, a lot of cities have investors from the West who own apartments and you are far
less likely to have problems. Ukrainians are very prone to trying to change the deal after they make it.

Behind some of those stone faces there are a dangerous minority of dim, angry bulbs waiting for a chance to push someone around and take something-- as the oligarchs do.

Post: #16

I don't know Odessa as well as you, but there's a lack of variety there it seems. Routine is great for production and efficiency, but hurtful for excitement. There's something to be said about big cities, such as Kiev or Moscow. At least there is something going on every night, there are various areas of the city to explore, etc.

I don't think it is necessarily the FSU, but moreso the city you are in? For me personally, the lack of ONS opportunity is hurtful to me. The ability to meet a girl, game her to the point where she submits to you for the night, is like a drug for me. That is where Kiev shines as opposed to other cities.

Post: #17

(08-20-2013 06:44 PM)iknowexactly Wrote:  I am in a very good university town

Care to share with us what you consider a very good university town?

Post: #18

Quote:I don't think it is necessarily the FSU, but moreso the city you are in?

Definitely could be, but right now after Odessa, I don't think I could continue in Kiev without an intermission.

Keep in mind you have a wingman. In Ukraine, rolling solo to clubs is death. In Poland, for example, I could roll solo without difficulty.

I do agree that going out knowing you definitely won't get a ONS makes you not want to go out at all. Odessa nightlife has been disappointing.

Post: #19

^^ disappointing in what way? you mean HOT chicks that want to be looked at and not touched!

Post: #20

(08-20-2013 08:09 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  ^^ disappointing in what way? you mean HOT chicks that want to be looked at and not touched!

- Nightlife is dead until the weekend
- Arkadia has lots of people, but snob factor can be off the charts. Mostly tourists (from other parts of Ukraine).
- Center bars have friendlier locals, but more hipsters. Poorer quality, horrible ratios

Post: #21

Go to kiev after you have recharged. Once chix notice that you're not one of the many weekend warriors, you'll be golden. There's also a handful successful non shady expats to link up with (just a handful), can put you in touch once you get there

Post: #22

I thought in Kharkiv rolling solO worked? Maybe for duke. To be honest in clubs most of my Kiev meetings were solo. My wing split up. Used dance game anyhow.
Have you tried day game? Some guy wrote how malls were good but not sure.
I am surprised about Arcadia. I remember a few years ago everynight almost was happening. More poorer chicks during the week and cheaper to get in. On weekends always loads of rich tourists.
Did you go to luzanovka? It's like Arcadia but cheaper clubs. It's the area north of the center. Probably little amount of tourists there.
Have you tried finding a wingman?
In summer everyone is there forca week or two so it can be hard to make friends.
Yeah Odessa is filled with hipsters, after all that's what odessans are.
You should take a short trip to nikoliev but ofcourse it be dead during the week.
Moscow seems to be your perfect environment.

Post: #23

(08-20-2013 08:58 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  I thought in Kharkiv rolling solO worked? Maybe for duke.

I didn't roll solo in Kharkiv. I had expat buddies with me. One time at Plazma, I befriended a local who opened a set for me. The girls were smiley but it didn't go anywhere because they didn't speak any English. If I were to roll solo, I might try opening local guys first, then progressing to girls (with the help of my new local friend). This tactic worked great in Uzbekistan but then maybe any tactic works in Uzbekistan.

Post: #24

(08-20-2013 08:20 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

(08-20-2013 08:09 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  ^^ disappointing in what way? you mean HOT chicks that want to be looked at and not touched!

- Nightlife is dead until the weekend
- Arkadia has lots of people, but snob factor can be off the charts. Mostly tourists (from other parts of Ukraine).
- Center bars have friendlier locals, but more hipsters. Poorer quality, horrible ratios

Have you tried the Crimea peninsula (Alushta, Yalta, etc)? I think it should be filled with tourists from all FSU and there would be something else to do apart of girls.

Post: #25

^^^there is not much too do in Ukraine except girls lol. Seriously I remind my wife of this everytime she mentions a visit.
Bad food
Bad service
Bad English ability
Bad techno, all techno is bad IMHO
Bad prices
Think yOu see where this is gOing.