Post: #1

.there are alpha wolves...we all knows about alpha and beta..and omega...but some people do not know about loners...in the pack of wolves..there are some wolves called loners...they are independant,silent,and like to be seperated by the group...alpha wolves are often intimadated by loners because they are not easily controled...in the pack,they simply believe that they have the ability to be alpha but they like to be loners beacuse they believe the members of the pack might not understand the traits of their leadership.

there were many famous people in the world who aperead to be loners,they isolated themselve and allowed their anger to fester.

my question is,if alpha human male exists..why we dont describe loners when it comes to any PUA doctrine.???..as the rule of thumb...if alpha exists in animal packs as well as loners....then why not in human?

Post: #2

That's me to a T. I don't need anyone's approval or give a shit about what they think tbh, but I don't mind someone else controlling conversation, taking the lead etc. I guess I'm lazy, but v comfortable with myself, comfortable going out on my own and meeting people. Sometimes I take the lead, sometimes I don't.

Post: #3

Quote:there were many famous people in the world who aperead to be loners,they isolated themselve and allowed their anger to fester.

Yeah, and they're the guys who get their rocks off through rape and murder. Question answered.

I felt that way, before I got into seduction; when asked on surveys and assessments if I'm a leader or a follower, I always felt, "well, I lead and no one follows." Trouble is, if no one follows, no ass does either. And there's no one to witness your greatness either.

But dude, you're just bringing this up because your game sucks at the moment, you are inexperienced (judging by your other post). You want validation for your inadequacies, and you're trying to avoid the harsh reality of approaching lots of girls. Hey, if giving yourself a 'Stranger' every night works, great, fuck approaching. Otherwise...

Edit: I took the Myers-Briggs test for a class, and I'm officially an extrovert.

Post: #4

(10-22-2008 06:47 AM)charmer Wrote:  my question is,if alpha human male exists..why we dont describe loners when it comes to any PUA doctrine.???..as the rule of thumb...if alpha exists in animal packs as well as loners....then why not in human?

Please explain how a "loner" is able to pick up women, when he's alone?
Also, I've seen those lone wolves in wolf documentaries, they tend to be driven away by the pack, and since they're by themselves they don't get to reproduce and their dna is weeded out of the gene pool. This probably explains why they're not mentioned in PUA doctrines.

Post: #5

I think we need a better definition of loner. It's been my experience that young women see loners as weird, creepy, and basically losers. High school girls especially feel that way and college girls still carry some of that with them. I mean a guy that doesn't have friends what's wrong with him?

The only exception to that rule will be if you looked like Brad Pitt and then in their minds you become mysterious. If you don't look like that then you're just a creepy loser.

Post: #6

Loners v. Alphas

The Quarter Back vs the New Kid Bad Boy Motorcycle guy.

Both are valid options......if you're a chick.

Post: #7

I don't see a distinction between a loner and an Alpha in that case. Alpha is an archetype depicting behavioural traits which anyone can posses. Going with the pack is generally a sign of being Beta.

Post: #8

(10-23-2008 12:19 PM)Trotter Wrote:  I think we need a better definition of loner. It's been my experience that young women see loners as weird, creepy, and basically losers. High school girls especially feel that way and college girls still carry some of that with them. I mean a guy that doesn't have friends what's wrong with him?

The only exception to that rule will be if you looked like Brad Pitt and then in their minds you become mysterious. If you don't look like that then you're just a creepy loser.

loners are tend to be mysterious regardless you look like a brad pitt or not....if you are not looking like a godzilla....then you are giving mysterious stuff to women by being lonely and giving meaningfull eye contact....they want to know why you are alone,they want to know why you are not interested in them,they want to explore you...it shows them that you have an attitude of yourself....and talking with personal experience...girls cannot say 'NO' to the loners when asked out...its not about validation point....iam making sense here...its very logical....we tend to approach things which are diferent,isolated and mysterious.

Post: #9

(10-23-2008 01:17 PM)charmer Wrote:  [quote='Trotter' pid='2015' dateline='1224782349']
. It's been my experience that I mean a guy that doesn't have friends what's wrong with him?

yeah,if a girl thinks about a guy like 'whats wrong with him',isnt it a clear sign that she is getting interested ?,and wanna know him more?...if a girl thinks he is just a looser...then she would be 'i dont care whats wrong with him as he is a looser'

Post: #10

What's with that shotty quoting job? If you're going to quote someone make sure you get it right. The full quote and the right name.

And honestly, I think you're hoping for something to be true that isn't because you've identified a flaw within yourself. There are certain things that have to be true in order for a woman to believe that a loner is interesting enough to pursue. One of those I mentioned in terms of looks. But there just needs to be something interesting about the guy from the start. Maybe he's dressed like a rock star and that appeals to her, maybe he rides a hog everywhere he goes, maybe he drives a really hot car, maybe he does poetry at the beetnick cafe, maybe he performs during open mic nights and she really likes his music.

If you're just some average guy, wearing average clothes, then chances are you're not this desirable loner dude. If you're overweight, out of shape, bad haircut, or always seen playing D&D or going to the movies by yourself then they're going to think something is wrong with that guy and that he's a loser. I will say that the older women get the less picky they become, but you're less likely to find young women accepting of such traits.

Look what really attracts women is knowing that a guy is wanted and people like to be around him. That's a good first indicator and generally those are the guys that get picked out first. The loner guy doesn't get recognized as often and most people will probably stay away from them because they don't overtly socialize, or seem unapproachable. Or just maybe they give off the impression that they WANT to be alone so no one bothers them.

To me the loner guy routine compared to the alpha guy with friends gets a heck of a lot less opportunities.

Post: #11

(10-23-2008 02:58 PM)Trotter Wrote:  The loner guy doesn't get recognized as often and most people will probably stay away from them because they don't overtly socialize, or seem unapproachable. Or just maybe they give off the impression that they WANT to be alone so no one bothers them.

I definately will agree with this and back it with experience.

I've been the 'loner' type for a long time when out. I'll catch women eyeballing me, but because I never had the balls to approach, opportunities were never taken. I've had many women tell me I just seemed 'unapproachable'.

After opening up - just a little bit too (I'm still learning lots), I have 2 really great prospects of just a couple hours in a bar... (prospects are not just #'s to me -- these are guaranteed lays if I take it that far).

the loner thing just doesn't work -- it might make women 'interested'.. but it would be rare for them to make the approach - thats the problem.

Post: #12

I am naturally a loner personality-wise, and I can assure you, being a loner has gotten me nowhere. If it works for you, great, but I doubt it will.

Just being able to approach also doesn't necessarily get you anywhere, I'm learning. A lot of my approaches completely fizzle. You've got to have the skills to keep things moving forward. Again, a challenge for me because I'm not necessarily the most social person, and while some girls will actively push a conversation forward with interesting comments/statements/questions, a lot won't -- they'll just barely acknowledge your existence, or reply with the smallest possible number of words to still be polite.

Post: #13

Ok children, let’s clear up a couple of things. Being an Alpha and Loner are NOT mutually exclusive because they are of two completely different concepts.

Alpha refers to a rank. Loner refers to a personality type.

Think of a badass cowboy of the old west, strong, independent, clearly a Loner but also an Alpha.

PUA doctrine goes on about not needing anyone’s approval, but I’ll tell you that only the Loner can truly go without someone’s approval. Because, ironically, the whole reason a lot of guys get into PUA doctrine is because they do in fact need approval. The Loner however doesn’t give a crap what others think by default.

Any dude can learn to be an Alpha but few can successfully pull off being a Loner. This is because the human population consists mostly of people that mindlessly go with the crowd, following fads and fashions; the Loner however is an eccentric, resourceful person who marches to the beat of his own drum.

Post: #14

A Marlon Brando independent loner bad boy wont get laid in college. I know that for sure.

That being said, there are groupies for every kind of alpha male.

Post: #15

I used to be somewhat of a loner (but not exactly) when I was younger at school. It's not that I was always alone, on the contrary. I was always with my circle, but according to other people outside the circle everyone said I was very quiet, I didn't understand.

It's funny because as I grew up I really never had any problem holding conversation and flirting, at some point in my life it just clicked. Of course I learned many more things as time went by and honed the skills I already possessed but never knew how to use them right and to the full potential when I was in school.

Thats why I never was able to get a girl when I was at school, even though I did manage to make some like me. I just sucked at it. Now It's completely a different story.

But to make things short, I still consider myself a lone wolf. I mean I really don't need company at all times and do fine just by myself. And this does not interfere with my interaction with women in any way.

But if you are a loner, suck at game, can't hold a conversation with a woman and build attraction... then you're pretty much shit out of luck until you do something about it.

Post: #16

http://www.rooshv.com/going-out-alone

That really sums it up, not sure why there's been any argument in this topic.

The guys saying "loners won't get laid" obviously don't get it. I've done it before, and as I've built confidence back-up, I prefer to go out alone, or be in a big enough venue where I can disappear and do my approaches without being interrupted by a dumbass friend trying to weasel his way in.

Post: #17

I think its more important to futher look at what Alpha means. Just because you are Alpha doesn't mean you need to be the center of attention, running conversations, running with "packs" or others, be it with men or women. Some people lazily confuse Alpha with straight up asshole. There are plenty of Alpha's with a calm confidence who certainly do not need validation from others. I personally have been saying that for a while when some PUA's talk about a 10 this and a 10 that...they are really juts seeking validation. A real Alpha gets what he wants to no matter what his peers or pack/followers think.

Anyhow, there is a fine line between insecure phony Alpha posturing and real Alphaness. You often will find guys with a Napolean complex who will look to boss and humiliate others in his "pack" but only if they are smaller, weaker, or just more reserved than the phony leader. In fact those kinds of wanna be Alphas usually will surround themselves with followers. Same with the insecure 5 girl that surrounds herself with fat or ugly girls to boost her ratings.

The real Alpha has the calm confidence and can show his true self with a couple friends or rolling solo. He ceratainly doesn't require a fan club of ego boosting tool bags to make him look cool.

Post: #18

My idea of the "alpha" is a person who simply has the courage to do what he wants. Hang with friends? Sure. Roll solo? Why not? Stays in at night on occasion because he's not missing anything he can't get any time. The loner doesn't have a choice, his social skills are undeveloped and his affinity to relate to others is sub par. The loner can get a girl that's got a mother hen complex or likes the damaged melodramatic type. In my experience, the loner isn't so much of a mysterious person as someone who lacks any depth and is angry or frustrated because other's aren't drawn to him or her. The loner however isn't necessarily a beta male. That has a whole other set of characteristics.

Post: #19

I wouldn't consider myself a loner, I can roll 5 deep or by myself to a club and still get numbers. However its been my experience that 1 night closes(straight from the bar/club to my place) are significantly easier solo. This usually works on a group of two girls, but the key is to projected confidence and indifference to their attention. Also arrive at the club early then you would if you were with your boys.