Post: #226

I've been on 100mg test and .5 adex per DAY for six months now, have blood work in for processing right now. E2 was at 70-80 before the adex. everything i read says that this is a shitload of adex.

we shall see

anyone have any experience with too low e2 and what the symptoms are?

i'm going to ask get on HCG as well, want my nuts back.

Post: #227

(10-30-2014 07:59 AM)Thug Muffin Wrote:  Your E2 is at 4? What's the range?
Most TRT places recommend anywhere from 20-35.
Before I started TRT my e2 was 7 I believe. At that level I was pretty moody. It's not until I got my e2 levels higher that I actually felt a lot better.

(10-29-2014 03:31 AM)PHC19 Wrote:  E2 at 4. General bloodwork is spectacular. I've lost approximately 70lbs in 18 months.

3-70. I have my bloodwork review with the doc on Monday; I presume he's going to lower my anastrazole dosing.

Post: #228

(10-30-2014 01:23 PM)Downtown Wrote:  I've been on 100mg test and .5 adex per DAY for six months now, have blood work in for processing right now. E2 was at 70-80 before the adex. everything i read says that this is a shitload of adex.

we shall see

anyone have any experience with too low e2 and what the symptoms are?

i'm going to ask get on HCG as well, want my nuts back.

Me. Overall I feel OK; the most common complaint with low E2 is joint discomfort, which I've had but not unbearable.

Since upping my Test injections this week, I'm feeling better already; I presume my E2 has risen but it's impossible to confirm without bloodwork at this point.

Post: #229

Bumping this for great lab sources.

Of course privatemd has the great female panel that I've used many times.

I just found this E2 ultrasensitive from Quest for $40. That is about half any other best price I can find. They also have the full range of Labcorp and Quest tests. Most of the online lab places only have the Labcorp ones. You will have to switch between labs to view all the tests though. https://www.health-tests-direct.com/

Post: #230

So I'm in class and my professor assigns us this scholarly article about the evolution of cancer and how it was ultimately shaped by evolution. The article breaks down how we can study evolution from a macro perspective to better understand tumor genetics and shit like that.

One of the bullet points on the article relates cancer to testosterone. In summary, the point made was that higher standards of nutrition in modern culture increases mate competition and test levels. Also, men who've evolved to have greater physicality tend to have higher test levels and mating success... but the trade off is that they are more prone to prostate cancer.

I'd like to hear what men on this forum would have to say about this... I try and keep my diet high in protein and saturated fats, lift heavy, sprint, box, stay relatively lean (10-12%ish bf year round), and supplement with zinc and fish oil; as I feel like high levels of test = bad mothafucka, but I wanna get some opinions on this article.

Post: #231

(03-10-2015 03:04 PM)the chef Wrote:  So I'm in class and my professor assigns us this scholarly article about the evolution of cancer and how it was ultimately shaped by evolution. The article breaks down how we can study evolution from a macro perspective to better understand tumor genetics and shit like that.

One of the bullet points on the article relates cancer to testosterone. In summary, the point made was that higher standards of nutrition in modern culture increases mate competition and test levels. Also, men who've evolved to have greater physicality tend to have higher test levels and mating success... but the trade off is that they are more prone to prostate cancer.

I'd like to hear what men on this forum would have to say about this... I try and keep my diet high in protein and saturated fats, lift heavy, sprint, box, stay relatively lean (10-12%ish bf year round), and supplement with zinc and fish oil; as I feel like high levels of test = bad mothafucka, but I wanna get some opinions on this article.

My question would be what studies does the text site suggesting modern test levels are higher and would are they determining test levels from prior generations? Jamie Lewis wrote an article regarding testosterone that cited studies suggesting that testosterone levels in 35 year old males is lower than their parent's generation. http://chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2011/01...-much.html .

Post: #232

^ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3567477/

Post: #233

Isn't prostate cancer one of the easiest to treat? Does it put you at higher risk for all cancer or just prostate?

Post: #234

Holy TL ; DR gimme a minute I skimmed it and haven't found anything saying that prior generations had lower test. levels. I see a lot of stuff that we know to be true, intragender competition drives test levels higher and the assertion that westerners have higher test levels.

Post: #235

Chef, I wasn't able to find anything in the paper citing an increase in the testosterone levels for any population or human beings over time. From my interpretation the author is arguing that better nutrition and adoption of a western style "aggressive" culture will lead to increased risk of prostate Ca due to a relationship between high levels of androgens and prostate Ca If I'm missing something could you quote me a section so I can see it.

Post: #236

(03-10-2015 06:20 PM)Repo Wrote:  Isn't prostate cancer one of the easiest to treat? Does it put you at higher risk for all cancer or just prostate?

It's not that it's easy to treat (though it is), it's that most men who get are going to die from something else and it is probably not worth treating: the cancer rarely metastasizes and most men who have it also have heart problems and diabetes.

Post: #237

Guys, I have a question for those in the know on this: any help is really, really appreciated.

I have two fighters who are looking to do a cycle of test. I had them do bloodwork test checks and they came out at:

10 & 17 nmol/l

Which for guys in their early 20s I thought pretty damned low.

I can get hold of some test through bodybuilding connections but want to keep them at the top level of the normal range rather than go crazy on the stuff.

How much should they be taking and how regularly?

Post: #238

Most of your question can be answered by earlier posts in this thread. What you should also check out is this thread by LINUX /thread-44354.html

(03-14-2015 05:06 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  I can get hold of some test through bodybuilding connections but want to keep them at the top level of the normal range rather than go crazy on the stuff.

Post: #239

I am about to go on clomid as an alternative to test, will report back in a couple of months.

Post: #240

^^^ I'd like to hear about that...Did you get a prescription for off-label use? (Don't have to answer if you prefer not to.)

Post: #241

(03-14-2015 11:01 AM)RexImperator Wrote:  ^^^ I'd like to hear about that...Did you get a prescription for off-label use? (Don't have to answer if you prefer not to.)

No prescription. It seems very safe, with a number of studies on men up to three years in duration with almost zero side effects, and typically a doubling of testosterone levels (from a low base). Thing is it actually increases sperm production and health so I'll have to be extra careful not to make too many offspring.

Post: #242

(03-14-2015 08:51 AM)RawGod Wrote:  I am about to go on clomid as an alternative to test, will report back in a couple of months.

Pay attention to your mood, particularly after 2 months on clomid. Clomiphene is actually two active chemicals in one, enclomiphene and zuclomiphene.

Enclomiphene is the good one. It acts to increase testosterone levels just like you would want out of TRT or test injections, except it does not repress the HPTA system and does increases sperm counts.

Zuclomiphene is the bad one, as it is highly estrogenic and acts on the receptors in your brain and hypothalmus. As your serum estradiol increases, possibly to unhealthy levels, your brain chemistry gets affected by the upregulation/downregulation processes of having a SERM act on your receptors. This is a lot like having high exposure to xenoestrogens - similar effects.

I took clomid for 6 months. While it doubled my testosterone levels, my estradiol levels tripled and I became depressed and irritable. The worst part is you can't stop clomid cold turkey, you have to taper down the dosage over time as you'd do with any SERM. AND zuclomiphene stays in your system for at least 6 weeks because it has a much longer half life than enclomiphene. So I had to suffer through the emotional effects and estrogenic side effects for 2 additional months before I started to feel better.

Be careful.

Post: #243

(09-22-2014 02:21 PM)Cr33pin Wrote:  I am having a hard time finding a place to fill my 200mg/ml 10ml testosterone prescriptions. Last time I got it filled at CVS they said they could no longer get 10ml bottles and gave me ten 1ml bottles. Now they say they can not get it at all. So I went to Kmart the only other pharmacy in my city and they can't get injectable testosterone. Is something going on that I don't know about? I tried googling it an couldn't find anything.

Also I got my blood work back today and it goes as follows
(I injected .5ml on Monday morning and drew blood for this blood work Thursday morning)

Testosterone serum: 1041
Free Testosterone: 24.5
Estradiol: 32.8
Cortisol: 21.6 (This is in the above normal range)

I got my Thyroid checked to
TSH: 1.420
t4: 7.5
t3: 33
Free Thyroxine: 2.5

This is the first time I have checked my free testosterone, estradiol, and cortisol. If anyone know much about these or has any info on if some are to high or low feel free to post.

cortisol is not good that is #1 reason for low T in my opinion everyone should fix and search for root cause for low T before injecting T.
I have also big problems with cortisol all time it's around this level and so also T is low, one time when cortisol went down for 20% immediately T went up for 20%

Post: #244

Rikardo, how did you lower your cortisol levels?

Post: #245

(03-14-2015 11:32 AM)CleanSlate Wrote:  

(03-14-2015 08:51 AM)RawGod Wrote:  I am about to go on clomid as an alternative to test, will report back in a couple of months.

Pay attention to your mood, particularly after 2 months on clomid. Clomiphene is actually two active chemicals in one, enclomiphene and zuclomiphene.

Enclomiphene is the good one. It acts to increase testosterone levels just like you would want out of TRT or test injections, except it does not repress the HPTA system and does increases sperm counts.

Zuclomiphene is the bad one, as it is highly estrogenic and acts on the receptors in your brain and hypothalmus. As your serum estradiol increases, possibly to unhealthy levels, your brain chemistry gets affected by the upregulation/downregulation processes of having a SERM act on your receptors. This is a lot like having high exposure to xenoestrogens - similar effects.

I took clomid for 6 months. While it doubled my testosterone levels, my estradiol levels tripled and I became depressed and irritable. The worst part is you can't stop clomid cold turkey, you have to taper down the dosage over time as you'd do with any SERM. AND zuclomiphene stays in your system for at least 6 weeks because it has a much longer half life than enclomiphene. So I had to suffer through the emotional effects and estrogenic side effects for 2 additional months before I started to feel better.

Be careful.

I've been on clomid for about two weeks now and am experiencing effects exactly as you say. Feel energised, but also kind of "emotional". And it seems to have reduced my libido.

I will taper off it, my experiences seem to fit with what I've read - while it does increase T, it's not a good substitute for T injections.

Post: #246

Got my blood work done to check test levels, and also convinced my doctor that it was worth checking my estrogen levels (thanks MikeCF and this thread, it gave me some important info).

Symptoms: General negative/bummer mood, OK but not great erections, not great libido, incredible difficulty gaining 'next level' strength or muscle mass.

Stats: 27 years old, 5'9"/180lb, pretty lean, eat a mostly high fat/high protein/low carb diet, and have lifted hard 2-3x per week for many years.

I won't have the full results in my hand until Monday, but here's a very basic summary based on a phone call with my doc today:

-Testosterone levels were at 593 (from what I've read this is OK, but probably the lower end of OK)
-Estrogen levels were above the normal range. He didn't tell me the exact number, but he was concerned enough to ask if I am currently taking any hormones (I'm not) and suggested I get "treatment" if the estrogen levels don't come down after my next round of blood work.
-Thyroid, Mineral levels, everything else looked great.

Since my test levels aren't super low, I would guess that too much of my test is getting converted to estrogen (high levels of aromatase?) This could make sense; I remember that I had some mild breast development when I was going through puberty (it has since resolved itself).

From my research, these hormone levels seem to be associated with obese dudes, which I definitely am not. I take 50mg of Zinc, 5000IU vitamin D, and eat 3 Brazil Nuts every day.

Would TRT be enough to help me, or should I just focus on reducing my estrogen levels? Or both?

Post: #247

IMO you need to work on your head.

Negative/bummer mood is not necessarily hormonal.

OK but not great erections are improved with kegel.

Incredible difficulty gaining 'next level' strength or muscle mass could mean that you just hit the plateau and need to change things around.

BTW, total test is cool but what's you free test level?

Post: #248

(03-27-2015 08:12 PM)CaptainCrazy Wrote:  IMO you need to work on your head.

Negative/bummer mood is not necessarily hormonal.

OK but not great erections are improved with kegel.

Incredible difficulty gaining 'next level' strength or muscle mass could mean that you just hit the plateau and need to change things around.

BTW, total test is cool but what's you free test level?

Testosterone 593.2 (249-836 ng/dL)
Free Testosterone 109.23 (30-150 pg/mL)
Estradiol 45.49 (7.63-42.60 pg/mL)
DHEA 10.5 (1.8-12.5 ng/mL)

I read that a solid testosterone to estrogen ratio is 30-40. Mine is at about 13.5

I do as much as reasonably possible to keep my natural estrogen levels low: no soy, tons of broccoli, exercise plenty...I feel like this has always been an issue for me.

Since my testosterone production in general seems to be OK, I'm going to ask my doctor today about generic Aremidex. It inhibits the enzyme that converts testosterone to estrogen (aromatase). Anyone have any information on this?

Post: #249

(03-31-2015 11:51 AM)Eddie Winslow Wrote:  Testosterone 593.2 (249-836 ng/dL)
Free Testosterone 109.23 (30-150 pg/mL)
Estradiol 45.49 (7.63-42.60 pg/mL)
DHEA 10.5 (1.8-12.5 ng/mL)

You're 27, right? Note that these ranges are age-adjusted. You used Quest labs, right? They are using ranges for 50-80 year old men, and these ranges cover 95% of all men, many of which aren't healthy at those ages.

Your testosterone levels should be at or over the top of these ranges. But before you try to raise your test levels, you should look at lowering your estradiol first. Talk to your doctor about an aromatase inhibitor, as these things are the only things that really work to reduce E2. Cutting out soy and losing weight may shave your E2 by a few points, but it won't bring you down from 45 to 25.

Post: #250

(03-31-2015 12:21 PM)CleanSlate Wrote:  

(03-31-2015 11:51 AM)Eddie Winslow Wrote:  Testosterone 593.2 (249-836 ng/dL)
Free Testosterone 109.23 (30-150 pg/mL)
Estradiol 45.49 (7.63-42.60 pg/mL)
DHEA 10.5 (1.8-12.5 ng/mL)

You're 27, right? Note that these ranges are age-adjusted. You used Quest labs, right? They are using ranges for 50-80 year old men, and these ranges cover 95% of all men, many of which aren't healthy at those ages.

Your testosterone levels should be at or over the top of these ranges. But before you try to raise your test levels, you should look at lowering your estradiol first. Talk to your doctor about an aromatase inhibitor, as these things are the only things that really work to reduce E2. Cutting out soy and losing weight may shave your E2 by a few points, but it won't bring you down from 45 to 25.

I spoke with him and he wants me to go to an endocrinologist and/or wait 3 months to do more blood work

Hopefully it won't be hard to find.