Post: #26

Deiss is either loved or hated. I don't know much about him, and I think it is probably difficult to know if he's legit or not by reading reviews online because so many people give his products crazy good reviews because his affiliates get around 1k commission for each sale on his large products. Then you have the opposite end with SaltyDroid which reminds me of Jezebel slamming Roosh.

For $500 I think I'd go to check it out if I was in the area. A lot of gurus do just repackage other peoples stuff, but if you can find all of the best stuff laid out in a very thorough and well thought out system, that is worth money. It may take you hundreds of hours to find all the info yourself, so getting it all laid out in a digestible format is a huge benefit, assuming the material is top notch.

Could we get a thorough review when you guys end up going?

Post: #27

(10-23-2013 10:36 PM)puckman Wrote:  wasn't Frank Kern already fined massively by the FTC? I am in the internet industry, but not an IM'r.

Yeah, Frank got nabbed a long time ago. Belcher got hit as well and he is suppose to stay out of a market because of it. I don't remember which market.

Quote:The guys I know and have worked that are extremely successful dont sell info products. Running conferences and selling these products from what I know is far easier than actually doing IM.

That gave me a chuckle. What do you consider IM if it doesn't have to deal with selling stuff? We are all trying to sell stuff in one way or the other. Why is selling conferences and info products easier than selling other things? You got to get traffic and convert them into sales no matter what you are selling online.

Conferences and info products is a huge business.

I believe Amazon's sells more ebooks than paper books now.

Conferences have always been huge even before the age of info products.

What is successful?

David Deangelo does millions with info products and conferences in the dating niche (crossed over into the im niche).

Look at Tony Robinson, I would say he is pretty successful.

Is a million a month selling info products successful?
http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/201...ike-geary/

Post: #28

I want to go to ASW 2015 for sure(I'll turn 21 2014 summer).

If anyone is attending any conferences in Toronto let me know, I'd be interested in coming along.

Post: #29

(10-23-2013 10:45 PM)RioNomad Wrote:  For $500 I think I'd go to check it out if I was in the area. A lot of gurus do just repackage other peoples stuff, but if you can find all of the best stuff laid out in a very thorough and well thought out system, that is worth money. It may take you hundreds of hours to find all the info yourself, so getting it all laid out in a digestible format is a huge benefit, assuming the material is top notch.

The whole rehash argument is funny. People try to make it out as if the information never changes. In reality, we all take information and build upon it. Sure, there may be some lazy scammers out there trying to pass off their information as their own but many are tweaking it to the point where I would pay to see those changes.

Post: #30

Here's a free 67 page pdf of notes from their 2013 T&C event (I skipped that year... scanned over these notes and didn't really get anything good out of them)... https://s3.amazonaws.com/tcsnotes/TCS2013+Notes.pdf

Post: #31

(10-23-2013 11:06 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

(10-23-2013 10:36 PM)puckman Wrote:  wasn't Frank Kern already fined massively by the FTC? I am in the internet industry, but not an IM'r.

Yeah, Frank got nabbed a long time ago. Belcher got hit as well and he is suppose to stay out of a market because of it. I don't remember which market.

Quote:The guys I know and have worked that are extremely successful dont sell info products. Running conferences and selling these products from what I know is far easier than actually doing IM.

That gave me a chuckle. What do you consider IM if it doesn't have to deal with selling stuff? We are all trying to sell stuff in one way or the other. Why is selling conferences and info products easier than selling other things? You got to get traffic and convert them into sales no matter what you are selling online.

no, my experience is with large web publishers, not internet marketers/product marketers, etc etc. Most of whom started as sole proprietors, i.e. guys that started websites which blew up. I have a big respect for actual product marketers, but if Ryan is such an expert what actual products did he create and sell before he started coaching? Or ironically, is the experience he is selling just gained from selling his conferences and products about learning IM??

Post: #32

They sell plenty of physical products that have nothing to do with IM. They even say some of the types of products/markets, but obviously won't give specific brand names.

Post: #33

edited.. I need to stop wasting my time on this.

Post: #34

(10-23-2013 09:21 PM)Big Nilla Wrote:  Scandibro,
You say he's a fraud and don't prove it yet you want people to prove Deiss is the real deal. Geez man. How about this... he can get 2,000+ people to pay $500+ each to fill a conference room... and OBVIOUSLY sells millions of dollars worth of products year in, year out. Deiss doesn't even claim to be a great copywriter. Besides, Perry Belcher does all the copywriting for them. And they flat out say video sales letters almost always get better conversions than sales letters.

It's painfully obvious just by what you post and the questions you ask that if you're not trolling you're an amateur in IM.

Pyramid marketers can also fill a room full of gullible people and 'sell' their 'product'.

Lol please I am an amateur. What are your credentials?

You guys are beginning to sound cultish. I actually make money, quite a lot of money, from affiliate marketing selling established brands and services online.

Post: #35

(10-24-2013 04:39 AM)scandibro Wrote:  

(10-23-2013 09:21 PM)Big Nilla Wrote:  Scandibro,
You say he's a fraud and don't prove it yet you want people to prove Deiss is the real deal. Geez man. How about this... he can get 2,000+ people to pay $500+ each to fill a conference room... and OBVIOUSLY sells millions of dollars worth of products year in, year out. Deiss doesn't even claim to be a great copywriter. Besides, Perry Belcher does all the copywriting for them. And they flat out say video sales letters almost always get better conversions than sales letters.

It's painfully obvious just by what you post and the questions you ask that if you're not trolling you're an amateur in IM.

Pyramid marketers can also fill a room full of gullible people and 'sell' their 'product'.

Lol please I am an amateur. What are your credentials?

You guys are beginning to sound cultish. I actually make money, quite a lot of money, from affiliate marketing selling established brands and services online.

Scandibro, you're 100% right. And yes, it seems like some people here made some really weird choices and now are trying to stick to it like a cult.

I have a lot of friends who bank hard on people like worldwidetraveller, who invested a lot of money into these courses and now are too blinded to exit. It's like a religion, you don't want to get out because you actually start believing in that one, great, person who will give you all his great, amazing, ideas if you only pay him $59.99 before the time runs out and he's sold out all the 1000 limited copies. Sounds like a church/cult to me.

Yeah, his stuff may work. But you can find the same info in most industry blogs. Hell, there's even a site that you pay a $100 membership per year where you can find all these ebooks being sold on clickbank with re-sale rights. All these gurus do, is repackage those and re-hype them.

Its funny, because even Roosh warns you of the same type of person in the PUA industry, giving you this amazing magic bullet that will always work, and so on. All I've been reading here is some rationalizations of some guys, who will make fun of a girl rationalizing (oh, I was on vacation, it doesn't count) but then rationalize this kind of stuff themselves with pointless stuff like (oh, he might be just selling repackaged stuff. but isn't that IM is all about?)

Needless to say, I'm a self made affiliate millionaire myself. And yes, I would never ever share any kind of knowledge on what I'm currently doing because, well, I'm doing too much money to just blow it out there for a couple bucks and saturate the whole market. Thank god for people like this Ryan Deiss, it keeps most people away from actually doing something that would make them money.

Proceed with caution whenever you encounter someone that proclaims himself a "guru" of any sorts. Especially if he's charging you to teach you, too.

Post: #36

Just want to throw out an idea out there for those of you going to any of these summits.

How about printing out the sales letter with you and potentially taking notes on that?

The sales letter often has very convincing "bullet points" of what you will learn. However, I looked over the 2013 and 2012 notes, and they seem much more banal than the sales letter. I remember Andy Jenkins saying that your sales letter sequence has to be perfect, but your product creation steps could be a bit more relaxed, which I dislike to hear, but that's what happens.

In any case, when taking notes, you can possibly match up what you're learning with which "bullet point" that the sales letter excites (or hypes) you as a benefit.

For example, on Session Eight, one of the bullet points is

Quote:"Strategic Graphics Placements" One graphic should be placed to the left of your text and all others to the right for highest conversions. Do you know which one?

When you're on session eight, keep your eyes peeled as to when this point is covered. If the stuff does match up, then you may have more valuable notes since you know what to focus on.

Then, again, there might be some problems: I used the Wayback machine and saw the sales letter for the 2013 summit. However, the "sessions" listed on the notes don't match up with the "sessions" as listed on the sales letter. If this is the case, then the sales letter could be construed as misleading (regardless of how good the summit itself is).

Just observations, anyhow.

Post: #37

I hope some day I will grow up to be like you cool cats.

Post: #38

(10-24-2013 05:06 AM)trainwreck Wrote:  

(10-24-2013 04:39 AM)scandibro Wrote:  

(10-23-2013 09:21 PM)Big Nilla Wrote:  Scandibro,
You say he's a fraud and don't prove it yet you want people to prove Deiss is the real deal. Geez man. How about this... he can get 2,000+ people to pay $500+ each to fill a conference room... and OBVIOUSLY sells millions of dollars worth of products year in, year out. Deiss doesn't even claim to be a great copywriter. Besides, Perry Belcher does all the copywriting for them. And they flat out say video sales letters almost always get better conversions than sales letters.

It's painfully obvious just by what you post and the questions you ask that if you're not trolling you're an amateur in IM.

Pyramid marketers can also fill a room full of gullible people and 'sell' their 'product'.

Lol please I am an amateur. What are your credentials?

You guys are beginning to sound cultish. I actually make money, quite a lot of money, from affiliate marketing selling established brands and services online.

Scandibro, you're 100% right. And yes, it seems like some people here made some really weird choices and now are trying to stick to it like a cult.

I have a lot of friends who bank hard on people like worldwidetraveller, who invested a lot of money into these courses and now are too blinded to exit.

After you spend a lot of money and invest the time and resources to learn their programs, I think people fall hard for this stuff. Its the modern equivalent of Amway, which was my parents generation version of info products. Another one out there is this guy Brendan Burchard. What a joke. A friend of mine worked with him when he was at Accenture, and he was a run of the mill annoying consultant. People dont realize, selling their info products about how to sell info products, IS HOW THEY MADE THEIR MONEY. Show me otherwise. I watched the Brendan Burchard program for free, that a poor guy bought for $4000 and gave me access too (he also has 5 kids and works like a dog to make ends meat and saw this as a lottery ticket). The program was good in that it showed you how to create and market an info product, but this is all found for free across the web. He suggests all of these tech products to use to make it happen, kajabi, clickbank, mail chimp etc etc, and he takes a referral fee from them as well for all of the new users he sends their way. I guess its good for complete and utter newbs who are incapable of google searching. David D become Eben Pagan, and it was a smart move for him to make more money and create a new business. He is one of the only guys in this business I think legitimately created value. Everyone I have ever met with millions in the bank is private and guarded, unless they sell cars or social media services.

Post: #39

redacted

Post: #40

(10-24-2013 10:15 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  I like how you change the goal posts.

There's a guy in the real estate space. His name is Alan Cowgill.

I'm a real estate lawyer by trade, and I found myself at a RE investor club meeting trying to hustle up some clients.

Cowgill was speaking to the club that night. He was promising the crowd, cheap money to invest with.

If you are into real estate, one of the biggest issues you have is getting cheap (and dumb or silent) financing.

He has a system that teaches you how to pool money from people who want to invest in real estate. They're called private placements, and it's not a secret concept to professionals.

People who've never done anything financial in their lives only think of 3 money sources.
1) their own pockets
2) friends and family
3) the bank

Alan travels around the country teaching newb real estate investors how to do a private placement. (aside from the legal aspects, you have to do a fair bit of marketing to bring in people, and then a bang up job on conversion)

His scheme is to run classifed ads, or send direct mail to seniors and average workers with CD's, 401k's, and IRA's. Convince them to move money into a trust account, and then he finds properties to invest in.

Keep in mind the real estate game is in the 100's of billions of dollars, if not trillions. If you've got a proven system to gather up money, and invest in real estate at a profit - you can making millions if not billions.

Indeed, if your system works, you're not showing up to Real Estate Investor Club meetings in some shitty off brand hotel conference room.

When you're in the real version of the business, you actually see the guys who gather money from pension funds, mutual funds, hedge funds, insurance companies. For Ex., the professionals investing in Tax liens have Wall Street money and a team of analysts with the best information to find the best deals.

So having seen this REIT guys before, knowing that they don't really mix with the riff raff like this, it made me wonder.

I know that you can make a lot of money doing this.

Why isn't he using his own knowledge to make 10X whatever he might make on selling DVD's and personal coaching?

1 good real estate deal at the multi-family level can net you millions. At the single family level, you can make 100's of thousands.

So why would someone who wants money and says he can make 10x spend the bulk of his time running seminars?

It doesn't make sense logically.

Now i'm not saying that's the case with Ryan or anyone mentioned.

But you have to intuitively understand the argument against gurus who got rich by telling other people how to get rich.

This isn't Donald Trump writing the "Art of the Deal". Where a few million in book sales is chump change compared to his real estate developments.

It's like Robert Kiyosaki getting rich off of Rich Dad, Poor Dad, when he hadn't followed and profited from Dad's advice.

WIA

WIA, the only reason I am responding is because I like a lot of your posts. I have no interest in debating what I tested with what people think they know.

How do you know they didn't get rich doing what they are teaching?

I am sure a lot of guys are making more money teaching than doing but that doesn't necessarily mean their info is bad just because of it.

Donald Trump sells his name for anything. Didn't he have Trump water at one time? hah Hell, the guy is in a lawsuit over business expos or "conferences" that was done with his name on it. Why do that if he is already making a lot of money in real estate?

Kiosaki was able to present information in a way that many people could relate too. Even if it wasn't new it inspired a lot. I know I can read the same stuff many times before it sets in. Sometimes, it is just presented to me in a way it just clicks. Hate on the guy all you want, he did something most people can't.

As for Alan Cowgill, I imagine people were interested in buying his system instead of trying to piece together everything themselves. You are talking ads, post cards, what to ask them, how to structure the deals, paperwork, etc... I don't really know anything about him but most of those courses have all of that stuff and that is why people purchase them. They can test their own ads, test their own postcards, find out through trial and error to see what works or get a course to jump start them.

Probably the same reason people would rather purchase a McDonalds franchise rather then create their own restaurant (besides name recognition).

I see the same type of logic to denounce Roosh. If he isn't banging 9's and 10's every night he must be fake.

Here is what I know. I tested several stuff taught by Belcher and Diess and it helped my business. Do you really think I care if they learned this from selling info products, or selling free weight loss trials that were scams like many affiliate marketers?

I can't say I really care if it helps my bottom line.

You guys can continue to argue about this other nonsense while I would rather test the information out and see if it works. If it doesn't, then no problem, I am out some money. If it does, I make more money. In the end, I make more money than I lose on this type of education.

As for the rehash argument, I see we have a lot of Einsteins and Da Vincis on here. Most people have never had an original idea which is why when it happens it is something pretty spectacular. Sure, there was info that I already knew in the videos I saw of a workshop done earlier. There was also a lot of new twists to old concepts that got me brainstorming even more.

We all can't be special snowflakes with completely original ideas.

Post: #41

(10-24-2013 10:34 AM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  Here is what I know. I tested several stuff taught by Belcher and Diess and it helped my business. Do you really think I care if they learned this from selling info products, or selling free weight loss trials that were scams like many affiliate marketers?

The fact they made money is not what I have an issue with. Its that they present their product as if they have 'some other business' that benefitted as a result of what they are selling. Its disingenuous if not fraudulent, at least the feds thought so when they fined Kern. I mean, what have they actually created other than a system to take money from ignorant desperate people? I am not in this business or spent any money on it, but I have always had an interest in it. Robert Kiyosaki filed for bankruptcy last year, I guess hes the Poor Dad now.

Post: #42

(10-24-2013 10:46 AM)puckman Wrote:  

(10-24-2013 10:34 AM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  Here is what I know. I tested several stuff taught by Belcher and Diess and it helped my business. Do you really think I care if they learned this from selling info products, or selling free weight loss trials that were scams like many affiliate marketers?

The fact they made money is not what I have an issue with. Its that they present their product as if they have 'some other business' that benefitted as a result of what they are selling. Its disingenuous if not fraudulent, at least the feds thought so when they fined Kern. I mean, what have they actually created other than a system to take money from ignorant desperate people. I am not in this business or spent any money on it, but I have always had an interest in it. I mean Robert Kiyosaki filed for bankruptcy last year, I guess hes the Poor Dad now.

Donald Trump filed bankruptcy as well. Kiosaki didn't file bankruptcy, one of his companies did.

If a rich person files bankruptcy that means they have nothing of value to teach, eh?

Do you have proof Diess and Belcher don't sell products outside of the IM space? If you don't, you are simply talking out of your ass.

Yours truly, the cult.

Post: #43

(10-24-2013 10:51 AM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  Do you have proof Diess and Belcher don't sell products outside of the IM space? If you don't, you are simply talking out of your ass.

Yours truly, the cult.

still waiting for proof they did.

hold on, have to go buy my lottery tickets.............

Post: #44

(10-24-2013 10:55 AM)puckman Wrote:  

(10-24-2013 10:51 AM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  Do you have proof Diess and Belcher don't sell products outside of the IM space? If you don't, you are simply talking out of your ass.

Yours truly, the cult.

still waiting for proof they did.

hold on, have to go buy my lottery tickets.............

hah Same logic used in false rape charges. Prove you didn't rape her otherwise you are guilty.

Post: #45

I dunno what's going on in this thread, but I'm interested to read more about some of Deiss stuff and this conference. I don't trust his product reviews on the internet due to people trying to make affiliate sales, but for you guys who have implemented his stuff, what kind of stuff does he teach? Any tips or techniques you could share I'd love to hear about.

And no, I'm not being sarcastic. I actually am interested in his stuff. ***figured I should put this because with all the back and forth in here it may be taken as sarcasm, and it isn't.****

Post: #46

I have no problem with people criticizing and railing against them and I'm not here to defend them. But the problem here is most of the criticism/skepticism is generic, weak, and pathetic. It's insulting and obvious to people who actually ARE successful in IM. On top of that, the criticism comes from guys who haven't been to one of the events and haven't bought/used any of their products/info.

Here's some better ammo if you're going to criticize them...

1. They put out a lot of crappy, overpriced products (specifically pre-2012). T&C isn't one of them.

2. Even though they've been churning $10+ million a year in revenues, prior to 2012 they weren't making a huge net profit. But that doesn't mean what they teach doesn't work, it just means they're bad at running their business (or were).

3. They rip off info from other people who are experts. They aren't the top experts in any one field, but they know a lot (more than 98% of the people doing the stuff) in many different IM fields compared to the average person. If you're looking for the top SEO people, they are not it, but they're better than almost everyone who does SEO. They're the jack of all trades IM'ers. They're really good at a lot of different aspects, but not the best in the world at any one of them. They actively go out and find the best and steal/learn as much from them as possible. Then they repackage the info and sell/present it to others. Obviously the top 2% in any 1 aspect of an IM field aren't going to actively sell how they do it and create competition for themselves.

See that boys? That is how to intelligently argue your points against them. For everyone else, I'll be at T&C. If you want to hang out you can pm me. Some of these guys posting remind me why I do my best to avoid most other IM'ers.

theArbiter... I've actually done that...matching up bullet points to actual info.

Post: #47

(10-24-2013 02:16 PM)Big Nilla Wrote:  If you're looking for the top SEO people, they are not it,

Who's the top person in SEO, besides Matt Cuts?

WIA

Post: #48

Good stuff WWT. I was just jumping in to say that I know why people are looking for "proof".

I think a guy like Ryan Deiss, Cowgill, Kiyosaki
- learn from what they teach

and

- learn from HOW they teach.

I've found that most people want a step by step, with pictures, and hand holding, recipe on how to make 100 bucks a day with an adsense site.

And even when they get that, there's still questions about plug ins, and Class C Ip hosting, et cetera.

I digress.

Good discussion. I definitely want to attend these things when I've got more time.

WIA

(10-24-2013 10:34 AM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

(10-24-2013 10:15 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  I like how you change the goal posts.

There's a guy in the real estate space. His name is Alan Cowgill.

I'm a real estate lawyer by trade, and I found myself at a RE investor club meeting trying to hustle up some clients.

Cowgill was speaking to the club that night. He was promising the crowd, cheap money to invest with.

If you are into real estate, one of the biggest issues you have is getting cheap (and dumb or silent) financing.

He has a system that teaches you how to pool money from people who want to invest in real estate. They're called private placements, and it's not a secret concept to professionals.

People who've never done anything financial in their lives only think of 3 money sources.
1) their own pockets
2) friends and family
3) the bank

Alan travels around the country teaching newb real estate investors how to do a private placement. (aside from the legal aspects, you have to do a fair bit of marketing to bring in people, and then a bang up job on conversion)

His scheme is to run classifed ads, or send direct mail to seniors and average workers with CD's, 401k's, and IRA's. Convince them to move money into a trust account, and then he finds properties to invest in.

Keep in mind the real estate game is in the 100's of billions of dollars, if not trillions. If you've got a proven system to gather up money, and invest in real estate at a profit - you can making millions if not billions.

Indeed, if your system works, you're not showing up to Real Estate Investor Club meetings in some shitty off brand hotel conference room.

When you're in the real version of the business, you actually see the guys who gather money from pension funds, mutual funds, hedge funds, insurance companies. For Ex., the professionals investing in Tax liens have Wall Street money and a team of analysts with the best information to find the best deals.

So having seen this REIT guys before, knowing that they don't really mix with the riff raff like this, it made me wonder.

I know that you can make a lot of money doing this.

Why isn't he using his own knowledge to make 10X whatever he might make on selling DVD's and personal coaching?

1 good real estate deal at the multi-family level can net you millions. At the single family level, you can make 100's of thousands.

So why would someone who wants money and says he can make 10x spend the bulk of his time running seminars?

It doesn't make sense logically.

Now i'm not saying that's the case with Ryan or anyone mentioned.

But you have to intuitively understand the argument against gurus who got rich by telling other people how to get rich.

This isn't Donald Trump writing the "Art of the Deal". Where a few million in book sales is chump change compared to his real estate developments.

It's like Robert Kiyosaki getting rich off of Rich Dad, Poor Dad, when he hadn't followed and profited from Dad's advice.

WIA

WIA, the only reason I am responding is because I like a lot of your posts. I have no interest in debating what I tested with what people think they know.

How do you know they didn't get rich doing what they are teaching?

I am sure a lot of guys are making more money teaching than doing but that doesn't necessarily mean their info is bad just because of it.

Donald Trump sells his name for anything. Didn't he have Trump water at one time? hah Hell, the guy is in a lawsuit over business expos or "conferences" that was done with his name on it. Why do that if he is already making a lot of money in real estate?

Kiosaki was able to present information in a way that many people could relate too. Even if it wasn't new it inspired a lot. I know I can read the same stuff many times before it sets in. Sometimes, it is just presented to me in a way it just clicks. Hate on the guy all you want, he did something most people can't.

As for Alan Cowgill, I imagine people were interested in buying his system instead of trying to piece together everything themselves. You are talking ads, post cards, what to ask them, how to structure the deals, paperwork, etc... I don't really know anything about him but most of those courses have all of that stuff and that is why people purchase them. They can test their own ads, test their own postcards, find out through trial and error to see what works or get a course to jump start them.

Probably the same reason people would rather purchase a McDonalds franchise rather then create their own restaurant (besides name recognition).

I see the same type of logic to denounce Roosh. If he isn't banging 9's and 10's every night he must be fake.

Here is what I know. I tested several stuff taught by Belcher and Diess and it helped my business. Do you really think I care if they learned this from selling info products, or selling free weight loss trials that were scams like many affiliate marketers?

I can't say I really care if it helps my bottom line.

You guys can continue to argue about this other nonsense while I would rather test the information out and see if it works. If it doesn't, then no problem, I am out some money. If it does, I make more money. In the end, I make more money than I lose on this type of education.

As for the rehash argument, I see we have a lot of Einsteins and Da Vincis on here. Most people have never had an original idea which is why when it happens it is something pretty spectacular. Sure, there was info that I already knew in the videos I saw of a workshop done earlier. There was also a lot of new twists to old concepts that got me brainstorming even more.

We all can't be special snowflakes with completely original ideas.

Post: #49

(10-24-2013 11:00 AM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

(10-24-2013 10:55 AM)puckman Wrote:  

(10-24-2013 10:51 AM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  Do you have proof Diess and Belcher don't sell products outside of the IM space? If you don't, you are simply talking out of your ass.

Yours truly, the cult.

still waiting for proof they did.

hold on, have to go buy my lottery tickets.............

hah Same logic used in false rape charges. Prove you didn't rape her otherwise you are guilty.

ok one more time, what other business/products have these awesome guys built, aside from taking money from uninformed desperate people? Crickets..............

I guess I view it from a different place. My business/life/career is all based on the money I have made from the internet. And none of it has been from arbitrage or IM or whatever its calling itself these days. Personally, I view these guys as spammers who contribute nothing of value, only extracting small transactions from naive people to make lower middle class incomes. Thats fine, I dont disparage anyone for earning money legally, but I sure as hell dont get so butthurt when I face a little criticism to throw out the word rape.

Post: #50

(10-24-2013 02:43 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  Good stuff WWT. I was just jumping in to say that I know why people are looking for "proof".

I think a guy like Ryan Deiss, Cowgill, Kiyosaki
- learn from what they teach

and

- learn from HOW they teach.

Yeah, I understand where it is coming from myself. I don't necessarily agree with the logic behind it.

You definitely can learn a lot just by watching how they sell. Even if you don't purchase anything you should be watching how your competition is selling in your marketplace.

Quote:I've found that most people want a step by step, with pictures, and hand holding, recipe on how to make 100 bucks a day with an adsense site.

I understand the skepticism. I don't have a problem with it as long as they have some basis for their accusations.

People are strange, they are afraid to fail so much they don't really try. I am bad with instructions so I sometimes have to go back and reread something until I do everything that was written. Most people give up after the first time saying it doesn't work.

Hell, there is a pretty good percentage of people who purchase this stuff and never open it/ read it.

I know a guy who is paying for a gym membership he never went too. He was and is planning on using it but not right now. That has been over a year of monthly membership dues.

I guess I am just different with the way I think. If a guy is making 100k in real estate using his own system but makes millions selling the system, it doesn't bother me. I just need to decide if I would be happy making 50k, 70k, or 100k using his information. To not buy it because he is making millions selling it would just be screwing myself over.

I rarely buy stuff anymore. It would have to be an immediate need for something I am working on. I would go to this conference if I had the time to digest the info.