Post: #26

(10-26-2013 05:28 PM)Aliblahba Wrote:  When applying to guv jobs they're only interested in duties and responsibilities. So if you were an armorer they want know how many small arms you had under your belt. It doesn't matter that you were in a non-deployment unit and they were only used once a year at rifle quals.

In the private your resume needs to curtail # of work orders opened, turnaround time on repairs, a low % deadline report, awards given for going above an beyond, ect.

It's true that if you are good at making money and fit into a preconceived role that people think of as "good worker" private sector can see you make a lot more money.

I've always been an obvious eccentric, book smart only, and gubmint work let me build up cred indirectly with degrees and licenses, such that they had no choice but to hire me. they could think I'm weird, but they need my license and can't fire me. I would have been treated worse in the private sector where my oddness would have been seen as icky--not one of the cool kids....

Aggressive guys with good sales skills will find them wasted in gubmint where procedure is central.

Post: #27

Why not do a combination of both and do government contracting?

You get the money (probably more) by not being totally government but get the job-security because you do all of their work. Is their an equivalent of government contracting supporting the INTEL agencies that require high-level clearances?

Yeah, you would have to give up freedoms like traveling to certain places without approval but the money would be damn good. I support the "No Such Agency" and the only drawback is that I would have to jump through hoops in order to travel to Columbia...which I why I goto Panama and Costa Rica...to at least get a shot at some Colombian chicks.

Post: #28

I honestly find it puzzling the degree of pragmatism so called 'red pill' people have. On the one hand you whine about how government has made feminism destroy women, on the other hand you are readily willing to join the very institutions which have made this mess in the first place. I believe it is called hypocrisy and none better at all than any hamster spinning woman. No government when it suits you, big government when it suits you.

Be a man and make your money in the free market. Haven't you even considered the moral aspects of being paid to slack off on the taxpayer dole?

Besides, government is only going to get smaller, fixed pensions and benefits for new employees will not be there, since they are simply not economically viable.

Make money in the private market, learn as much as you can, open your own business abroad, don't pay tax, move in with your money in 10-15 years when western countries are bankrupt.

Post: #29

(10-27-2013 02:12 AM)scandibro Wrote:  Be a man and make your money in the free market.

I'll start to "be a man" when you stop being naive enough to believe in a "free market" in a kleptocracy.

If you grew up in Denmark, where your profile says you are, you already massively benefitted from a heavily taxed, socialistic government system ( which I advocate) and your opinions are bizarrely disconnected from your situation.

Post: #30

(10-27-2013 02:14 AM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

(10-27-2013 02:12 AM)scandibro Wrote:  Be a man and make your money in the free market.

I'll start to "be a man" when you stop being naive enough to believe in a "free market" in a kleptocracy.

If you grew up in Denmark, where your profile says you are, you already massively benefitted from a heavily taxed, socialistic government system ( which I advocate) and your opinions are bizarrely disconnected from your situation.

Benefitted?

Don't get me started. I despise the socialist policies in Denmark.

People have no idea about the realities of socialist Scandinavia. The scandinavian wealth was created way before the welfare state model. In the 50s Denmark had lower tax rates than the US and some of the lowest taxes in Europe.

Since the late 60s the comparative wealth of Denmark has only declined from top 5 gdp/capita to low twenties.

Despite the biggest government sector in the world, Denmark is only 18th on the recent list of quality of life for elderly citizens. 400.000 danish citizens out of 5 million in total are on anti-depressant drugs. Cancer treatment is way below US standards. The survival rate for prostate cancer is 30% less than the US. Waiting times at hospitals in emergency rooms are often 8-12 hours with no food and drink provided. House break ins are in the top in Europe because police doesn't investigate due to spending their time writing out tickets for minor offences to fill the state coffers. Everything is massively taxed, cars have up to 250% tax, all VAT tax is 25% even on food. Cigarettes, chocolate, alchohol is massively taxed. 90% of your electricity bill is made up of taxes. Immigrant muslim ghettos are rampant where crime rates and radical islamism is massive. Legions of people telling you what to do and what not to do. Rampant feminism and favorable laws for women, laws against fathers and men. Indoctrination at all levels of the education system.

But sure, I know all of this doesn't matter for the socialist who is so scared of failing on the free market that he or she is willing to accept just about no freedom as long as there is (perceived) security.

I've left Denmark and I am not coming back until the country has bankrupted itself or cut tax rates in half. One of which WILL happen becuase of simple economics.

Btw, I grew up in a leftist household, even voted far left twice, until I figured out what socialism is actually about when you put emotion aside.

Post: #31

(10-24-2013 07:35 PM)Tornado Wrote:  I recently received two job offers. One from a private company and another from the federal government.

Although you are asking for advice, I won't try to pontificate to you and don't have a predisposition one way or the other, having worked solely in the private sector my entire professional career. I commend you though for the analysis you are doing and wish you luck with whatever choice you make. In this economy, it's good to hear about folks that have options like you do.

Post: #32

(10-27-2013 02:12 AM)scandibro Wrote:  I honestly find it puzzling the degree of pragmatism so called 'red pill' people have. On the one hand you whine about how government has made feminism destroy women, on the other hand you are readily willing to join the very institutions which have made this mess in the first place. I believe it is called hypocrisy and none better at all than any hamster spinning woman. No government when it suits you, big government when it suits you.

Be a man and make your money in the free market. Haven't you even considered the moral aspects of being paid to slack off on the taxpayer dole?

Besides, government is only going to get smaller, fixed pensions and benefits for new employees will not be there, since they are simply not economically viable.

Make money in the private market, learn as much as you can, open your own business abroad, don't pay tax, move in with your money in 10-15 years when western countries are bankrupt.

Ummm....

I never claimed "red pill" or "alpha". What I DO claim is adapting to the set of rules and options within your nation getting the best net results while minimizing risk. I don't know about Denmark, but here in the USA, they pay contractors a pretty nice amount to do government workers "dirty work". In many cases, government contractors are paid much more for the same job done in the private sector (with the extra coming from holding certain clearances).

Yes, it would be nice to make all of your income in the free market BUT with a country as big as the USA, there are 200 million others trying to do the same thing.

The USA is also a "bottom-line" type of nation, so folks don't really look at HOW you found a way or niche to make money, they just see the net result.

Post: #33

(10-27-2013 02:12 AM)scandibro Wrote:  I honestly find it puzzling the degree of pragmatism so called 'red pill' people have. On the one hand you whine about how government has made feminism destroy women, on the other hand you are readily willing to join the very institutions which have made this mess in the first place. I believe it is called hypocrisy and none better at all than any hamster spinning woman. No government when it suits you, big government when it suits you.

Be a man and make your money in the free market. Haven't you even considered the moral aspects of being paid to slack off on the taxpayer dole?

Besides, government is only going to get smaller, fixed pensions and benefits for new employees will not be there, since they are simply not economically viable.

Make money in the private market, learn as much as you can, open your own business abroad, don't pay tax, move in with your money in 10-15 years when western countries are bankrupt.

Red pill and morality have nothing to do with each other. Some would argue pumping and dumping women to be in the grey area of the morality index(I am not one of them). As for manning up, what is possibly more manly than power? Politicians are at the top of the pecking order. There is a reason they are hated so much, its called jealousy. I am not a government employee but I would take up a good position in a heart beat for a very capitalist reason: greed.

Post: #34

(10-27-2013 04:54 AM)Magyarphile Wrote:  

(10-27-2013 02:12 AM)scandibro Wrote:  I honestly find it puzzling the degree of pragmatism so called 'red pill' people have. On the one hand you whine about how government has made feminism destroy women, on the other hand you are readily willing to join the very institutions which have made this mess in the first place. I believe it is called hypocrisy and none better at all than any hamster spinning woman. No government when it suits you, big government when it suits you.

Be a man and make your money in the free market. Haven't you even considered the moral aspects of being paid to slack off on the taxpayer dole?

Besides, government is only going to get smaller, fixed pensions and benefits for new employees will not be there, since they are simply not economically viable.

Make money in the private market, learn as much as you can, open your own business abroad, don't pay tax, move in with your money in 10-15 years when western countries are bankrupt.

Red pill and morality have nothing to do with each other. Some would argue pumping and dumping women to be in the grey area of the morality index(I am not one of them). As for manning up, what is possibly more manly than power? Politicians are at the top of the pecking order. There is a reason they are hated so much, its called jealousy. I am not a government employee but I would take up a good position in a heart beat for a very capitalist reason: greed.

I don't know man, I work in a field which is ripe with opportunity for those willing to compromise their morals (affiliate marketing). I could have made a lot more money if I sold these bs 'trial' fraud products which steal money out of innocent peoples bank account. I might even have been able to forget about it for some time, but I believe it will do the damage and eventually you will be 'pot committed' to it and begin rationalizing something you know is wrong and that is when you become a real douchebag.

So yeah, the money may be good in the government, the power may be there, but you're doing the wrong thing and it will turn you bad.

Ethics is what I'm getting at. I can't do things which directly conflict with my ethics.

Post: #35

(10-25-2013 12:19 PM)Tornado Wrote:  What kind of information do you need? It is in mechanical and will deal with designing mechanical systems. Its in the DMV. I leaning towards government because I dont want to work more than 40 hours a week and want to travel. I also am considering getting my masters(which I know the government will pay for).

I dont want to do mindless work and just be a paper pusher. I want to be able to work as hard as I want and be reward for it, which is why I cant get private sector out of my head.

You are in the DC area? 5 k is not enough of a pay gap to justify even an extra 5 hours work per week. Life is too short for that noise.

My advice, go Gov. for 1-2 years make some connections and work on some good projects. When you are ready to make more money in say 18-36 months out reach out to private sector for much more than the 5k.

Post: #36

I agree with the others saying it's partly a personality fit. I've had experience on both sides, and have friends who've done it -- sometimes going from government to private contractor on exactly the same project.

If you don't like bureaucracy, skip the gov't job. For example, you may find that $100 to upgrade your computer with more memory/whatever will massively improve your productivity. That may take months in the government for procurement, but in private industry, just go out and buy it and submit the receipt.

As for job security, if you're in a field that in general is in high demand (sounds like you are), then that's probably not an issue. It would be different if you had some obscure skill where there are limited opportunities. I had a friend working in gov't and in a very narrow field -- they'd get people with PhDs applying for _internships_ because there were so few jobs in the field.

Gov't will give you a bit more free time since you only work the clock. Many people do compressed workweek, so 9 hours/day and every 2nd Friday is off because you put in the extra hour the previous 8 days (the alternating Friday is an 8-hour day). When the clock strikes 5 or whatever, if the work isn't done, that's fine. Shut down, and resume tomorrow.

Private industry is more flexible, and I think works better for people who like no hassles and really getting things done.

Post: #37

Thanks guys. I decided to take the government job. They will pay for a masters, which is something I am interested in. Also it is in a general area my friends are in too. I will probably reevaluate if I want to stay after a year or two.

Post: #38

(10-28-2013 05:57 PM)Tornado Wrote:  Thanks guys. I decided to take the government job. They will pay for a masters, which is something I am interested in. Also it is in a general area my friends are in too. I will probably reevaluate if I want to stay after a year or two.

A lot of people have taken this to a conversation about what career is better, but this was about a job. Sometimes a government job is a shitty place to be, but a good place to be from. Sometimes it is exactly the opposite. You have to evaluate your particular situation as you go.

Post: #39

Good luck, mate. Just remember : the lessons learned about men, women , feminists , white knights, manginas and all the other quirks of human nature here will serve you well. Have no fear: 90% of the world does not have Manosphere knowledge and will fail. Control the frame, develop yourself, run a work game (not to fuck but to be interesting and in control), and you will always go far in your career.

Post: #40

(10-27-2013 02:28 AM)scandibro Wrote:  

(10-27-2013 02:14 AM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

(10-27-2013 02:12 AM)scandibro Wrote:  Be a man and make your money in the free market.

I'll start to "be a man" when you stop being naive enough to believe in a "free market" in a kleptocracy.

If you grew up in Denmark, where your profile says you are, you already massively benefitted from a heavily taxed, socialistic government system ( which I advocate) and your opinions are bizarrely disconnected from your situation.

Benefitted?

Don't get me started. I despise the socialist policies in Denmark.

It doesn't matter what you say you "despise", the taxpayers of Denmark spent a fuckload on your education and health care and on a highly developed safe environment. You can be ungrateful if you want, your opinion doesn't change the economic facts. Money talks, bullshit walks.

Post: #41

(10-27-2013 12:04 PM)scandibro Wrote:  

(10-27-2013 04:54 AM)Magyarphile Wrote:  

(10-27-2013 02:12 AM)scandibro Wrote:  I honestly find it puzzling the degree of pragmatism so called 'red pill' people have. On the one hand you whine about how government has made feminism destroy women, on the other hand you are readily willing to join the very institutions which have made this mess in the first place. I believe it is called hypocrisy and none better at all than any hamster spinning woman. No government when it suits you, big government when it suits you.

Be a man and make your money in the free market. Haven't you even considered the moral aspects of being paid to slack off on the taxpayer dole?

Besides, government is only going to get smaller, fixed pensions and benefits for new employees will not be there, since they are simply not economically viable.

Make money in the private market, learn as much as you can, open your own business abroad, don't pay tax, move in with your money in 10-15 years when western countries are bankrupt.

Red pill and morality have nothing to do with each other. Some would argue pumping and dumping women to be in the grey area of the morality index(I am not one of them). As for manning up, what is possibly more manly than power? Politicians are at the top of the pecking order. There is a reason they are hated so much, its called jealousy. I am not a government employee but I would take up a good position in a heart beat for a very capitalist reason: greed.

I don't know man, I work in a field which is ripe with opportunity for those willing to compromise their morals (affiliate marketing). I could have made a lot more money if I sold these bs 'trial' fraud products which steal money out of innocent peoples bank account. I might even have been able to forget about it for some time, but I believe it will do the damage and eventually you will be 'pot committed' to it and begin rationalizing something you know is wrong and that is when you become a real douchebag.

So yeah, the money may be good in the government, the power may be there, but you're doing the wrong thing and it will turn you bad.

Ethics is what I'm getting at. I can't do things which directly conflict with my ethics.

What is so unethical about working for the government? It is an entity sanctioned and funded by the people. Would you rather work for an MNC that has sweatshops in Bangladesh? Truth be told, I am no fan of big government. I just don't understand this perspective that the private sector can do no wrong. Just look at BP, they practically destroyed the coast line in the Gulf where I grew up. Ethics has no place on a corporate balance sheet...

Post: #42

(10-29-2013 06:22 AM)Magyarphile Wrote:  

(10-27-2013 12:04 PM)scandibro Wrote:  

(10-27-2013 04:54 AM)Magyarphile Wrote:  

(10-27-2013 02:12 AM)scandibro Wrote:  I honestly find it puzzling the degree of pragmatism so called 'red pill' people have. On the one hand you whine about how government has made feminism destroy women, on the other hand you are readily willing to join the very institutions which have made this mess in the first place. I believe it is called hypocrisy and none better at all than any hamster spinning woman. No government when it suits you, big government when it suits you.

Be a man and make your money in the free market. Haven't you even considered the moral aspects of being paid to slack off on the taxpayer dole?

Besides, government is only going to get smaller, fixed pensions and benefits for new employees will not be there, since they are simply not economically viable.

Make money in the private market, learn as much as you can, open your own business abroad, don't pay tax, move in with your money in 10-15 years when western countries are bankrupt.

Red pill and morality have nothing to do with each other. Some would argue pumping and dumping women to be in the grey area of the morality index(I am not one of them). As for manning up, what is possibly more manly than power? Politicians are at the top of the pecking order. There is a reason they are hated so much, its called jealousy. I am not a government employee but I would take up a good position in a heart beat for a very capitalist reason: greed.

I don't know man, I work in a field which is ripe with opportunity for those willing to compromise their morals (affiliate marketing). I could have made a lot more money if I sold these bs 'trial' fraud products which steal money out of innocent peoples bank account. I might even have been able to forget about it for some time, but I believe it will do the damage and eventually you will be 'pot committed' to it and begin rationalizing something you know is wrong and that is when you become a real douchebag.

So yeah, the money may be good in the government, the power may be there, but you're doing the wrong thing and it will turn you bad.

Ethics is what I'm getting at. I can't do things which directly conflict with my ethics.

What is so unethical about working for the government? It is an entity sanctioned and funded by the people. Would you rather work for an MNC that has sweatshops in Bangladesh? Truth be told, I am no fan of big government. I just don't understand this perspective that the private sector can do no wrong. Just look at BP, they practically destroyed the coast line in the Gulf where I grew up. Ethics has no place on a corporate balance sheet...

Since you brough up ethics, consider this:

You need money to pay for your childs schooling, maybe you spent it on binge drinking, maybe you are unemployed, maybe you spent your youth partying and not getting an education so now you don't make enough. Your neighbor has more money than you do. Is it ok - and ethical - for you to go over to your neighbor and threathen him or rob him to give you money?

Now, you probably don't think that is ok, at least you wouldn't do it. Is it then ok for you to hire some goons to go to your neighbor and shake him down for money? Maybe you don't pay the goons directly put give them a cut of what ever money they can extort. Would that be ok?

Probably not right, I don't know many people who'd do that, because that is essentially mafia behavior.

Now, maybe you and a bunch of other people on your road decide that this neighbor should give you money, so you call a homeowner meeting and vote that this neighbor should give you his money. If he doesn't agree, goons are going to come to his home and put him in a cage. Is that ok?

Last, maybe a whole bunch of you decide that you will vote yourself that all the rich neighbors in a country should pay to those neighbors with less money. If they don't agree, they are thrown behind bars. You call this taxation and government. Is this ok?

Post: #43

Firstly, I didn't bring up ethics, you did. It is not something I enjoy talking about because there is no agreed upon definition. Morality is relative, the world is grey. As for your example, I think we all dislike coercion. Government is as you say a coercive force given legitimacy but the concept of majority rule. We can whine and gripe about it but it remains a necessary evil. When said rich man agrees to build the roads, charter schools for poor children and defend the country against foreign threats than I will entertain your notion that we don't need a government.

Post: #44

Unless there is a big, big difference in wages I don't see why anyone would ever take private sector over government work in their 20s. In my industry my choice was work 60 hours a week for $55k a year or work 40 hours a week for $40k a year when I was fresh out of college. Plus a big difference in allocated holiday days.

The difference in free time allows you to stay in good shape, maintain your friendships, develop yourself intellectually, go on dates during the work week and travel the world. And you shouldn't need the extra cash in your 20s anyway - you don't need the nice BMW or the penthouse at that age, it's still socially acceptable to be somewhat studenty.

If after a couple years your career isn't moving fast enough (as it likely won't be) for your liking, and you want both promotions and money, then you can always switch to private sector once youre 30+. You'll probably be 2/3 years behind someone who went in at 25 years old but you'll have a hell of a lot more (and better) life experience.

Post: #45

(10-29-2013 02:52 PM)Magyarphile Wrote:  Firstly, I didn't bring up ethics, you did. It is not something I enjoy talking about because there is no agreed upon definition. Morality is relative, the world is grey. As for your example, I think we all dislike coercion. Government is as you say a coercive force given legitimacy but the concept of majority rule. We can whine and gripe about it but it remains a necessary evil. When said rich man agrees to build the roads, charter schools for poor children and defend the country against foreign threats than I will entertain your notion that we don't need a government.

Morality and ethics are not the same.

Ethics are not 'grey', that is the whole point of ethics, to figure out morality based on rationality, not random custom.

You're a moral relativist fine. Not very interesting but ok.

Then why, if you feel the world is grey and there is no true morality, do you think there is such a concept as a nation or that anyone should build school for children or protect against anyone? After all, if morality is relative, why does your definition of morality take superiority over any other kind of morality?

Sorry, those two standpoints are completely opposed. Really, your argument isn't sound at all.

My standpoint is pretty simple. I consider taxation theft and I do not believe outsourcing your robbery and violence makes it any more legitimate. I do not believe the majority should rule the minority. It's like the 3 wolves and the lamb voting what to have for dinner.

Post: #46

Impossible question w/o specifics. In general a govt job will pay slightly less and offer more work/life and flexibilty and better benefits.

It really depends on the type of job. In the engineering and legal fields, Id say govt all the way. This is because the pay is already high and the work force is selective. Because of this the govt has to compete and raise the salaries if too many quality employees get leached to the private sector. The difference between $75k working your ass off may be worth it vs. $50k. However, Making $210k and working your ass off versus $140k and a plumb job is a different story. At the higher end, the extra money (50% more in both cases) doesnt mean as much (lowering marginal value).

Some govt jobs are also implementing work from home and even more have completely flexible hours.