Post: #1

A little something for those in the to-GMO or not-to-GMO debate. Personally, I do whatever I can to keep as many GMOs out of my diet as possible. I want nothing to do with them.

http://www.theecologist.org/News/news_an..._feed.html

Post: #2

This is a fight you Americans need to start focusing on. Rest of the world is banning this stuff, and you are not even allowed to label GMO food. Monsanto protection act. Same people working in FDA as Monsanto. Only research done on GMO are from Monsanto. Other people not even allowed to run science on this shit. Scientist in Monsanto getting fired for wanting to give out warnings about GMO. News reporters not allowed to present dangers on GMO in media.

This is just some of the stuff I came over while doing some casual research.

Stopped by a taco bell in Texas and people actually looked like they had been fed nuclear waste their entire life.

Post: #3

(12-11-2013 11:54 AM)pants Wrote:  This is a fight you Americans need to start focusing on. Rest of the world is banning this stuff, and you are not even allowed to label GMO food. Monsanto protection act. Same people working in FDA as Monsanto. Only research done on GMO are from Monsanto. Other people not even allowed to run science on this shit. Scientist in Monsanto getting fired for wanting to give out warnings about GMO. News reporters not allowed to present dangers on GMO in media.

This is just some of the stuff I came over while doing some casual research.

Stopped by a taco bell in Texas and people actually looked like they had been fed nuclear waste their entire life.

I agree. The Obama administration has given Monsanto virtual-immunity from litigation. The people saying there's nothing to show that GMOs are fucked up are bullshitting themselves. THERE IS PLENTY!!!

As you said, the rest of the world is way ahead of America on this.

Post: #4

Quote:GMOs May Be Linked to CRAZY Deformities in Piglets

Agreed. Here's one of the test piglets:



   

Post: #5

(12-11-2013 12:56 PM)Aliblahba Wrote:  

Quote:GMOs May Be Linked to CRAZY Deformities in Piglets

Agreed. Here's one of the test piglets:

HAHAHAHA!!! No doubt.

Post: #6

(12-11-2013 11:54 AM)pants Wrote:  This is a fight you Americans need to start focusing on. Rest of the world is banning this stuff, and you are not even allowed to label GMO food. Monsanto protection act. Same people working in FDA as Monsanto. Only research done on GMO are from Monsanto. Other people not even allowed to run science on this shit. Scientist in Monsanto getting fired for wanting to give out warnings about GMO. News reporters not allowed to present dangers on GMO in media.

This is just some of the stuff I came over while doing some casual research.

Stopped by a taco bell in Texas and people actually looked like they had been fed nuclear waste their entire life.

I stopped eating fast food a few years ago but went to a Taco Bell so a friend could get some food last week....... It was crazy the unhealthy fucked up looking people that were eating in there. A nasty ill proportioned couple sat beside us and looked and sounded awful. There was a young group in the corner booth that looked normal but everyone else in there looked sickly.... An the manager was sitting at a table with her short hair, neck tattoos, and 3 kids...
Murica

Post: #7

I've been researching GMO's for a separate project, and almost made a thread on then earlier. I'd be really curious what research everyone else has done. "The World According to Monsanto" is on my viewing list and I eat organic.

GMO's are one of the reasons I may move to Europe when my current projects are complete.

Post: #8

(12-11-2013 01:23 PM)runsonmagic Wrote:  I've been researching GMO's for a separate project, and almost made a thread on then earlier. I'd be really curious what research everyone else has done. "The World According to Monsanto" is on my viewing list and I eat organic.

GMO's are one of the reasons I may move to Europe when my current projects are complete.

Yeah... I do virtually all organically grown myself. I AM WELL-WORTH THE SLIGHTLY HIGHER PRICE. I've built a pretty decent relationship with small farms in my area and get damn-near all of my food from them.
Those fuckin Franken-foods are bad news.

Post: #9

Show me the science. I hear a lot of crying about GMOs but no specific details about why they are bad and mechanistic explanations for how they cause problems. Why aren't the THOUSANDS of other farmers raising livestock with the same feed seeing these same problems? Did this farmer accidentally contaminate the feed? Maybe the feed was contaminated before he got it. Either way, this looks like sensationalism, not objective journalism.

I eat organic and am no blind believer in GMOs but as a scientist and critical thinker, these types of articles piss me off.

Post: #10

(12-11-2013 01:49 PM)ElBorrachoInfamoso Wrote:  Show me the science. I hear a lot of crying about GMOs but no specific details about why they are bad and mechanistic explanations for how they cause problems. Why aren't the THOUSANDS of other farmers raising livestock with the same feed seeing these same problems? Did this farmer accidentally contaminate the feed? Maybe the feed was contaminated before he got it. Either way, this looks like sensationalism, not objective journalism.

I eat organic and am no blind believer in GMOs but as a scientist and critical thinker, these types of articles piss me off.

Yeah I hear you but take a look around at your fellow incredibly obese and unhealthy Americans and then travel around the rest of the world and compare and contrast and get back to us. The food chain in the US is so effed up it's not even funny. Every time I come back I'm shocked. At first I thought the feminist, PC police-state culture would prevent me from ever coming back home permanently but now I fear its the food. And it's not just GMO it's all the antibiotic, hormone and preservative-laden foods too.

There have been plenty of studies done on how bad GMO is and there's a thread on this forum about it as well. But I know it's tough to know who to believe...for me I just think I can't trust the US and, specifically, Big Ag & Big Pharma anymore....

Post: #11

(12-11-2013 02:01 PM)Akula Wrote:  

(12-11-2013 01:49 PM)ElBorrachoInfamoso Wrote:  Show me the science. I hear a lot of crying about GMOs but no specific details about why they are bad and mechanistic explanations for how they cause problems. Why aren't the THOUSANDS of other farmers raising livestock with the same feed seeing these same problems? Did this farmer accidentally contaminate the feed? Maybe the feed was contaminated before he got it. Either way, this looks like sensationalism, not objective journalism.

I eat organic and am no blind believer in GMOs but as a scientist and critical thinker, these types of articles piss me off.

Yeah I hear you but take a look around at your fellow incredibly obese and unhealthy Americans and then travel around the rest of the world and compare and contrast and get back to us. The food chain in the US is so effed up it's not even funny. Every time I come back I'm shocked. At first I thought the feminist, PC police-state culture would prevent me from ever coming back home permanently but now I fear its the food. And it's not just GMO it's all the antibiotic, hormone and preservative-laden foods too.

There have been plenty of studies done on how bad GMO is and there's a thread on this forum about it as well. But I know it's tough to know who to believe...for me I just think I can't trust the US and, specifically, Big Ag & Big Pharma anymore....

I don't know if I agree that there is some sort of super conspiracy against the populace. I think its because the US allows for freedom of choice. Its not like you can only get Taco Bell and Organic food is banned. You can get either.

Cigarettes are also bad for people but its a personal choice if someone wants to buy them

I like that in America its my choice to get fat or not, to smoke or not, or in some states to wear a helmet when I ride a motorcycle or not.

I support making the information available so that people can make a choice not banning the poor choices like a parent of a child.

Post: #12

Even according to the linked article, the supposed deformities (for which the evidence is, at best, anecdotal) have nothing to do with GMOs as such, but only with the fact that a particular herbicide is sprayed on them more than on non-GM feed:

Quote:Pedersen believes these abnormalities, and the other problems, were caused - at least in part - by the presence of the herbicide glyphosate in his GM pig feed. Glyphosate is routinely sprayed on many soya and cereal crops to kill weeds and maximise yields.

Although it is used on conventional crops, its usage on GM soya and maize is particularly prevalent as the crops are engineered to be resistant to the chemical, killing the weeds but leaving the crop plants unaffected.

The introduction of GM crops resistant to glyphosate allowed crops to be sprayed with the herbicide to control weeds - often many times over a growing season - without killing the crop. But this also led to much higher levels of glyphosate in the plants and seeds.

After glyphosate-resistant strains of soy were introduced in 1996, EU regulators raised the allowed maximum residue limit (MRL) for glyphosate in imported soy 200-fold, from 0.1 mg/kg to 20 mg/kg.

Glyphosate use has become increasingly controversial in recent years, with a growing body of research, say campaigners, suggesting that exposure, even at low levels, can be harmful to animals and humans.

Studies have also suggested, claim critics, that the herbicide may disrupt the human endocrine system, which regulates the body's biological processes, meaning that any level of exposure could pose a significant risk to health.

Such claims are vigorously refuted by the agro-chemical industry, who state the herbicide is safe and who accuse campaigners of touting flawed research, or manipulating the findings to suit their own agenda.

I have no idea whether this herbicide really is harmful or not. But the belief that there is something inherently wrong with GMOs is just a superstition (which this article is more than happy to encourage with its misleading title). The genetic modification is perfectly harmless in itself and simply makes the crops more resistant to the herbicide; and it's the herbicide use that is (possibly) a problem.

Post: #13

Fuck GMOs.

Taleb made a good argument against GMOs in his book. We simply don't know the long term effects of GMOs and we won't know for a few dozen decades. Mother nature is an extremely complex system so a statement that "GMOs are safe", even based on short term studies are incredibly brash.

Post: #14

"The burden of evidence is not on nature but on humans disrupting anything top-down to prove their errors don’t spread and don’t carry consequences. Absence of evidence is vastly more nonlinear than evidence of absence. So if someone asks “do you have evidence that I am harming the planet?”, ignore him: he should be the one producing evidence, not you. It is shocking how people can put the burden of evidence the wrong way."

http://longplayer.org/what/whatelse/letters.php#02

Post: #15

(12-11-2013 02:28 PM)wiscanada Wrote:  I don't know if I agree that there is some sort of super conspiracy against the populace. I think its because the US allows for freedom of choice. Its not like you can only get Taco Bell and Organic food is banned. You can get either.

Cigarettes are also bad for people but its a personal choice if someone wants to buy them

I like that in America its my choice to get fat or not, to smoke or not, or in some states to wear a helmet when I ride a motorcycle or not.

I support making the information available so that people can make a choice not banning the poor choices like a parent of a child.

It's not really a choice when the whole game is rigged to benefit certain corporations in detriment of everyone else.

Post: #16

Quote:Pedersen believes these abnormalities, and the other problems, were caused - at least in part - by the presence of the herbicide glyphosate in his GM pig feed.

Croatian
peder (noun) = gay
Synonyms: queer, faggot, homosexual

That said, I wish this article would provide numbers, as in "55 piglets compared to the 12 in the control group". Just "we've been seeing" is not convincing and makes me dismiss the thing as hysteria.

Post: #17

(12-11-2013 10:57 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  Even according to the linked article, the supposed deformities (for which the evidence is, at best, anecdotal) have nothing to do with GMOs as such, but only with the fact that a particular herbicide is sprayed on them more than on non-GM feed: ...

Exactly. I don't understand the hysteria over genetic modification itself (aside from moral arguments). People lose their shit over stem cell research. Everyone thinks scientists chop up babies. Despite all the setbacks in funding scientists are working on using stem cells from skin and from bone marrow for example.


People freak out thinking the act of genetically modifying the organism will kill you. They think a small strand of DNA is going to somehow magically kill you. When an animal is dead DNA doesn't do shit.

That being said you have to look at the gene products of the inserted DNA. From what I've read some are natural pesticides/herbicides (which have not been studied). Some genes make a plant less susceptible to herbicides. The problem is not that gene, but the fact that they douse the plants in herbicides. That coupled with the morally shady business practices are why GMO foods are bad.

Don't go hating on genetically modification, it is the greatest discovery of humankind.

Post: #18

delete

Post: #19

(12-12-2013 02:12 AM)Teutatis Wrote:  

(12-11-2013 02:28 PM)wiscanada Wrote:  I don't know if I agree that there is some sort of super conspiracy against the populace. I think its because the US allows for freedom of choice. Its not like you can only get Taco Bell and Organic food is banned. You can get either.

Cigarettes are also bad for people but its a personal choice if someone wants to buy them

I like that in America its my choice to get fat or not, to smoke or not, or in some states to wear a helmet when I ride a motorcycle or not.

I support making the information available so that people can make a choice not banning the poor choices like a parent of a child.

It's not really a choice when the whole game is rigged to benefit certain corporations in detriment of everyone else.

Last time I checked an american is also free to buy land, go 'off the grid' with their home and even grow their own organic food and livestock. Its not easy to achieve but its also not illegal.

When they round up the Mennonites in the hills of the Appalachians and Wisconsin and tell them they have to eat taco bell and GMO tomatoes then I'll get a bit paranoid that the 'game is rigged'

That being said, the cards are stacked against those who choose to play the game. You are right there.

Post: #20

'You are what you eat.'

Is there a chance that these abnormalities in our food cycle - hermaphrodite fish, deformed pigs, sterile corn - then contribute to sexual issues in new births? That is, the rise of feminine men, masculine women, and transgenders in between, have nothing to do with society being more accepting of different behaviors, but it strictly a cause-and-effect.

In a bizarre way of thinking, I considered: if I was a frog that, due to pesticides in the rivers, was born with both testicles and ovaries, then I demand that frog society accept me as a 'third sex'...the idea was laughable. But that is what is happening in human society. And I can see where they are coming from - who would want to admit they are simply a deformation?

So is it...
-these chemically/genetically altered foods COULD do damage to us IF we are not careful
-these altered foods already HAVE been affecting us for decades
-these foods are no dangerous than before, and this is media sensationalism

Post: #21

(12-13-2013 09:30 AM)wiscanada Wrote:  

(12-12-2013 02:12 AM)Teutatis Wrote:  

(12-11-2013 02:28 PM)wiscanada Wrote:  I don't know if I agree that there is some sort of super conspiracy against the populace. I think its because the US allows for freedom of choice. Its not like you can only get Taco Bell and Organic food is banned. You can get either.

Cigarettes are also bad for people but its a personal choice if someone wants to buy them

I like that in America its my choice to get fat or not, to smoke or not, or in some states to wear a helmet when I ride a motorcycle or not.

I support making the information available so that people can make a choice not banning the poor choices like a parent of a child.

It's not really a choice when the whole game is rigged to benefit certain corporations in detriment of everyone else.

Last time I checked an american is also free to buy land, go 'off the grid' with their home and even grow their own organic food and livestock. Its not easy to achieve but its also not illegal.

When they round up the Mennonites in the hills of the Appalachians and Wisconsin and tell them they have to eat taco bell and GMO tomatoes then I'll get a bit paranoid that the 'game is rigged'

That being said, the cards are stacked against those who choose to play the game. You are right there.

America is far from free, money go from generation to generation. Sure there are a few people who comes from nothing and make it big time, but that´s a rare case. But "the American" dream is more marketing.

Just wanna repeat, I am pro GMO when it comes to research, but there needs to be much better testing. In the land of the free people are not allowed to test the food they are about to eat? Huge corporation like Monsanto can have protections acts to protect them from lawsuits?
You really want to put your trust in a company that said PCB and agent orange was safe? If GMO turns out to be safe, its more about luck then good research.

If your not sure what Agent Orange dose to humans, here are some examples.






Most scary part is when the cat is out of the bag, its impossible to regain past ecosystem as the GMO products are cross breathing into all the other plants.

Monsanto is working on a terminator seed, this way farmers will have to come back and buy their seeds year after year as they produce sterile offspring. A scary though is; What if these terminator seeds instead of producing sterile seeds, produce fertile children, but sterile second generation and this DNA starts cross breathing into non GMO organisms.

I can see Monsanto has everything to gain on claiming their products are safe, I can´t really see what the independent research has to gain to come with anything but objective information.

Post: #22

(12-11-2013 02:28 PM)wiscanada Wrote:  I support making the information available so that people can make a choice not banning the poor choices like a parent of a child.

And yet here we all are complaining about the downfall of American society. We're fat, stupid, vapid, etc.

People take the path of least resistance generally. Look at the average American and you can see what "freedom of choice" gets you. McDonald's and Wal Mart and iPhone addicts.

The reality is that in the United States we put LOTS of limits on things. You can't drive without a seatbelt. You can't do harmless drugs without risking prison time. You can't have raw unpasteurized milk and cheese. Real natural cheese is illegal but McDonald's double cheeseburgers are OK.

Europe chooses to spend public money on Universities, making them free or very low-cost. America chooses not to, and chooses to allow Universities to scam students into incredible debt.

You probably grew up in this society, so you don't miss the things you don't have access to, you think the choices we have are normal. But the options available in every society are necessarily a political choice. The E.U. allows less choice in guns but more choice in cheese. Europe denies many companies the "choice" to provide unhealthy food. It seems like a totally reasonable and responsible choice for a government to make, especially after seeing what has happened in the U.S.

If you were leading a country, wouldn't you want to steer it in a healthy direction? Or would you be happy looking at 2/3 people obese and overweight, thinking "Ahhh, liberty is beautiful".

Post: #23

Yet another reason to not consume pork.

Having witnessed the industry first-hand, it's bloody difficult to keep pigs from getting sick in a factory farm - requires an ungodly amount of antibiotics, it's the one meat I'd never touch.