Post: #1

In this thread here,

/thread-29620.html

in post #24, PoosyWrecker made the mistake of asking me my opinion on a good program for humanistic education and leadership training. So, I’ll use the opening he gave me to pontificate on what I believe is a good way to compensate for the lack of humanities training in our educational system today. My guide has been the classical concept of the “nine muses”, where a well-rounded education should be composed of the arts, sciences, and humanities.

I’ve also been guided by the Renaissance educational treatises of Leonardo Bruni (The Study of Literature), Aeneas Silvius Piccolomini (Education of Boys), and Battista Guarino (A Program Of Teaching And Learning). I've studied these books with great care, and found them to be very useful. My suggestions are broken down into several constituent parts.

I. Books.

Will Durant was one of America’s best historians and philosophers of the 20th century. He drew up a list of the “100 Best Books For An Education”. Here it is:

http://www.listsofbests.com/list/52411-w...-education

I don’t think anyone has yet improved on that. Will Durant was an amazing writer, philosopher, and overall human being, and I have learned a lot from his books. Very few will be able to work through all these volumes. I know I have not. But if you can even digest a few of these titles, you’ll be far ahead of most people.

II. Languages

The scholar or man of letters should know one of the classical languages (Latin, Greek, Sanskrit, Hebrew), plus a couple modern ones. Which modern ones is the perennial question. There are many different schools of thought on this. But I think if you’re going to put the time in, pick ones that have a high payoff for you.

Each person will be different. I think a person should know one modern Romance language (Spanish, Portuguese, Italian, French, etc.), plus a major language of Eastern Europe or the Middle East or the Far East (e.g., Russian, Arabic, Japanese) to be totally well-rounded.

III. Leadership

From an early age, a boy needs to mix with his peers and learn those natural lessons of hard knocks, give-and-take, and interpersonal relations that are indispensable for leading others. Group athletics are key, as is physical conditioning. Some people are always going to be natural leaders, but that doesn’t mean that every man can’t improve himself. There’s no magic formula here, except learning by experience.

My list of traits and qualities: (1) Be totally proficient in your field, since competence inspires devotion. People will be forgiving of everything except not knowing one’s business. (2) Humility. There are too many braggarts around. Try to see things from the other guy’s perspective. (3) Be in good physical shape. Never underestimate personal appearance. (4) Pull the trigger. As a leader, you will have to make tough decisions. Don't be afraid to pull the trigger when you have to. At some point, debate has to stop, and a final decision has to be made. Be decisive and occasionally ruthless. He who hesitates is lost.

Like anything, leadership skills grow as you get older. When you're a young guy in your 20s, don't make the mistake of trying to be Patton or Napoleon. Just focus on the core traits: know your business well (technical competence), be physically fit as best you can, develop confidence with women, have good interpersonal skills, and practice pulling the trigger. Finally, a sense of humor can overcome a lot of obstacles.

IV. Travel

Travel is a critical part of education. The ability to go abroad, and to leave one’s prejudices at home, is an essential part of development. It doesn’t really much matter where you go. Just go somewhere and reflect on what you’ve seen and heard. You will find that your place in the universe is much different than what your ego led you to believe.

V. Rhetoric

This used to be a true field of study, but has fallen into disrepute in the past 100 years. It’s the art of writing and making speeches. Being able to speak in front of a group is a critical skill, in my opinion. Rhetoric is a true art, in that it teaches us how to construct an argument for maximum effect.

The best guides here are: (1) read the great speeches of history, (2) study the writings of Quintilian and Cicero, and the ancient historians Thucydides, Sallust, and pretty much any ancient historian, as well as the Renaissance Italian writers, who were steeped in the rhetorical tradition, and (3) seek out opportunities to speak in front of groups or debate others. It’s a great way to sharpen your skills.

VI. Athletics and Physical Fitness.

This goes without saying. If we were living 500 years ago, I would also say that horsemanship and swordsmanship were also important. But maybe that’s asking too much.

A good baseline guide for overall fitness (and a good preparation for officer training) is to try to master the Marine Corps PFT (physical fitness test). There have been many articles written on this, and you can easily find them by Googling the right terms. Running, upper body strength, and abdominal strength are the key parts here.

Post: #2

Great post Quintus. For III (Leadership), I would like to suggest starting an enterprise at least once. Even if it fails, one knows the effort and importance of good relations with others when it comes to accomplishing tasks. One also masters the arts of negotiation and understands the nature of men and women, much more so than sitting at a desk all day, working for orders.

Post: #3

(01-12-2014 12:10 AM)xpatplayer Wrote:  Great post Quintus. For III (Leadership), I would like to suggest starting an enterprise at least once. Even if it fails, one knows the effort and importance of good relations with others when it comes to accomplishing tasks. One also masters the arts of negotiation and understands the nature of men and women, much more so than sitting at a desk all day, working for orders.

Agreed on the business enterprise thing. Absolutely.

I also forgot to mention how important it is to practice some "fine art", like music, painting, sculpture, woodworking, or something along those lines.

It's really important to activate your entire brain for maximum creativity.

Post: #4

"Humanistic"

Is this for both men and women???

Post: #5

(01-12-2014 12:35 AM)Giovonny Wrote:  "Humanistic"

Is this is for both men and women???

Gio:

I used that word deliberately. It has a special meaning. Humanistic is defined by the Oxford English Dictionary as "pertaining to or characteristic of the humanists or classical scholars of the Renaissance; classical".

I know this because I have it opened in front of me as I type this.

So, when I say "humanistic" program for learning, I am trying to suggest a learning roadmap that would have the approval of the great scholars of old.

This thread is a spinoff of another thread on the decline of learning in the humanities field. Hence the connection.

Would women benefit from this kind of education? Yes. But I don't presume to give advice to women. Nor would they accept it from me if I did give it.

I suspect that if the modern feminist knew what was in the pages to some of those great old books, she would have a heart attack.

Post: #6

(01-12-2014 12:44 AM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  So, when I say "humanistic" program for learning, I am trying to suggest a learning roadmap that would have the approval of the great scholars of old.

I'm going to play "devils advocate" here:

Your program is designed so that it would "have the approval of the great scholars of old".

Those guys are dead. Who cares if they approve or not?

We live in a new world with a new set of problems. I feel that seeking the "approval" of dead men is limiting. They know nothing of the technology that is vital to our lives, they know nothing of the modern financial markets, they know nothing about the modern empowered woman, etc. I say we need a more modern program.

Also, your program is called "humanistic" but it seems to be only for men.

Do you have a program to develop women also? This is just as important since women raise the children and need to be instructed on how to raise boys vs raising girls.

My main point is this..

Everyone needs to learn different things based on their unique situation.

I don't think we can create one program for all men. I think each man needs a program that is custom designed for him.

I don't like the idea of educating every man in the exact same way. I think that would create a lot of "group think" and basically give everyone the same world view.

Just like every man must learn game in his own way, I think every man must learn about the world in his own way.

I'm not trying to challenge you on a personal level. I just like a little gentlemanly intellectual recreation on Sundays.

I feel like Robin Williams in the "Dead Poets Society"!

Post: #7

Gio:

I hear what you're saying.

But I think my thread here makes more sense when it is put into its specific context, and what it was intended for.

PoosyWrecker specifically asked me, in a related thread about the decline of humanities education, if I could "outline the great books and humanities ideas of old" that "we should have been studying all these years".

So, my thread here is in response to a specific question. It was never intended to be a suggestion for a modern, all-inclusive, well-rounded curriculum. My suggestions above are very narrowly-tailored, and are only applicable for one subject area (humanities).

In addition, I never intended to give advice to women. Although I personally think they would benefit as much as men would, giving advice to women is beyond the scope of my goal.

I can't be faulted for not doing something that I never set out to do, can I?

And yes, the world has changed. Absolutely. But PoosyWrecker was asking me specifically what I think he should gotten out of a humanities education. And the list of books given above, and the list of disciplines given above, are one response.

Also, as I said above, the word "humanistic" is not used here in the sense of "human being". It is not a word that is intended to convey gender constructs. "Humanistic" means here "relating to classical humanism and its philosophy". "Humanism" is a specific philosophy, a way of life, a true intellectual movement from the Renaissance. That's what I mean here. It's got nothing to do with men/women. It is a philosophy that transcends gender. There were both great male and female humanists.

Is it a complete, well rounded educational program? Absolutely not. But it does have some useful suggestions on books to read, and on ways to cultivate leadership skills.

Post: #8

Thanks for the thorough explanation.

Your program does make a lot more sense in the context that it was designed for. I just read the other "humanities" thread and I see that you were basically answering a specific request for a "program".

It is all much more clear to me now.

I was going to ask you about a "developmental program" for the modern man and how the developmental needs of a peasant in India differs from the developmental needs of a rich kid in Manhattan; and how the educational needs of a farmer in China differ from the educational needs of my little brother but... I will save that topic for another day.

Enjoy your Sunday.

Post: #9

You're a true gentleman, Giovonny. Thanks for the urbane response.

I'll confess my weakness for pontificating on various and sundry subjects. But I try to base my rantings, as much as possible, on precedents grounded in experience or history, seen through my own imperfect eyes.

Post: #10

(01-12-2014 03:49 PM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  gentleman

I think one of the most important things we can teach our children is How To Treat Other People.

Not just girls we want to bang, but People in general.

I think this is undervalued and underrated in education.

(01-12-2014 03:49 PM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  urbane

I learned a new word.

(01-12-2014 03:49 PM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  I'll confess my weakness for pontificating on various and sundry subjects. But I try to base my rantings, as much as possible, on precedents grounded in experience or history, seen through my own imperfect eyes.

Lol! Well said. I do the same