Post: #1

Lately I've been wondering if I've been going too far with my asshole game.
It's actually gotten more towards outright arrogance, and I think it is turning girls off.

Girls look at me with starry eyes when they first meet me until they realize how steep the buy-in is.

Has anyone else hit that point?

I think it's time to add some charisma back into the mix.

Post: #2

(04-27-2014 03:52 PM)General Mayhem Wrote:  Girls look at me with starry eyes when they first meet me until they realize how steep the buy-in is

Could you possibly give an example?

Having lived in a fraternity house last year I have quite a bit of experience and success with asshole game.

Post: #3

When you are significantly lower value than the girl, you have to close the gap. Arrogance, negs, not-giving a fuck, etc. are all ways to do that.

As you improve yourself and raise your value, you need those things less because she sees you as higher value than her.

I suspect you've gotten better with game since you started, and now don't need as much cockiness. It sounds like overgaming. I know, because I did the same thing.

If she is starry-eyed from the first moment, and into you, just run "don't fuck it up" game, make her comfortable, and try to bring her home. You don't have to build attraction if you're already attractive and she knows it..

Post: #4

(04-27-2014 04:31 PM)Hans Dix Wrote:  

(04-27-2014 03:52 PM)General Mayhem Wrote:  Girls look at me with starry eyes when they first meet me until they realize how steep the buy-in is

Could you possibly give an example?

Having lived in a fraternity house last year I have quite a bit of experience and success with asshole game.

I have just noticed that every time I meet a girl she is looking up at me with big eyes, pupils dilated, etc. That look usually dies out though after she starts talking and I am unimpressed by whatever she is saying.

(04-27-2014 04:36 PM)runsonmagic Wrote:  When you are significantly lower value than the girl, you have to close the gap. Arrogance, negs, not-giving a fuck, etc. are all ways to do that.

As you improve yourself and raise your value, you need those things less because she sees you as higher value than her.

I suspect you've gotten better with game since you started, and now don't need as much cockiness. It sounds like overgaming. I know, because I did the same thing.

If she is starry-eyed from the first moment, and into you, just run "don't fuck it up" game, make her comfortable, and try to bring her home. You don't have to build attraction if you're already attractive and she knows it..

I think that might be it. I'm starting to think I was better off 5 years ago when I didn't know what game was, but I had one girl that fucked me over so I got into it.

I think I am overgaming like you said. My value has always been high, maybe I don't need I need to run that kind of game. I've been told I'm good-looking since I can remember, maybe that style just doesn't fit.

Post: #5

Could you give an example? I believe there is a limit to aloof/asshole game, so depending on the context in which you display aloof/asshole game, she'll lose interest.

Post: #6

Quote:I think I am overgaming like you said. My value has always been high, maybe I don't need I need to run that kind of game. I've been told I'm good-looking since I can remember, maybe that style just doesn't fit.

You see that hot 7-8 who you know you can game but her bitch shield is set to stun?



Thats you.

Post: #7

Too much push. Not enough pull.

You have to learn how to show different sides of your personality. When you're alone with her be sweet, cocky and funny. Save asshole game for when hanging out in a group.

This is how it works. All her friends will trash you and be like "He's such an asshole. Why are you with this guy?"

She'll defend you saying "No he's so sweet to me. You just don't know him".

The more they hate on you the more she'll want you.

In the female world hate = jealousy. She'll read it as they're jealous of you. It's fucked up I know but it's true.

Post: #8

I do this shit all the time.

I think if you're halfway good-looking or have a natural charisma that's appealing to people, you really have to be careful with the cocky-funny vibe.

Either that or you just choose to not give a damn and take whatever rises to the top. That's kind of been my style but sometimes I think my quality would be better if I toned it down.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #9

(04-27-2014 06:55 PM)Parlay44 Wrote:  Too much push. Not enough pull.

You have to learn how to show different sides of your personality. When you're alone with her be sweet, cocky and funny. Save asshole game for when hanging out in a group.

That might be part of my problem, I just don't turn off the asshole game.

(04-27-2014 07:06 PM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  I do this shit all the time.

I think if you're halfway good-looking or have a natural charisma that's appealing to people, you really have to be careful with the cocky-funny vibe.

Either that or you just choose to not give a damn and take whatever rises to the top. That's kind of been my style but sometimes I think my quality would be better if I toned it down.

This is pretty much sums it up. I'm not complaining about not having success, I just think I would have more success if I toned it down.

Post: #10

Was actually about to make this exact thread.

(04-27-2014 07:06 PM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  I do this shit all the time.

I think if you're halfway good-looking or have a natural charisma that's appealing to people, you really have to be careful with the cocky-funny vibe.

Either that or you just choose to not give a damn and take whatever rises to the top. That's kind of been my style but sometimes I think my quality would be better if I toned it down.

This is where I am. I've always been a charismatic guy who could talk to anyone, but experience from doing night game exclusively and pretty much every game resource out there has taught me it's better to be a cocky asshole. I'm working on toning it down outside the bars. I still think you need to be cold and unapologetic at times (such as not complimenting her too much), but I'm also learning it's better to be friendly and interesting in most conversations rather than constantly negging or acting cocky.

For all you game writers out there, a resource that talks honestly about how to find this balance would be a great topic.

Post: #11

I had this specific problem starting off. I bet you are afraid to show even a little bit of beta/vulnerability, correct?

I still struggle with this problem. But if you are into the girl, let a few sweet moments slip through. Just don't let her have too much. When she earns it, give her a little bit of the good stuff. But keep your wits and your confidence about you. There's a balance in game between outright dismissal and cocky aloofness.

Remember, the game is made in comfort. Once you have the attraction, she has to see you making some connection, or she will feel like you will just leave. Girls have to have some promise of security, even if it is false.

Post: #12

(04-27-2014 10:08 PM)ryanf Wrote:  I had this specific problem starting off. I bet you are afraid to show even a little bit of beta/vulnerability, correct?

I still struggle with this problem. But if you are into the girl, let a few sweet moments slip through. Just don't let her have too much. When she earns it, give her a little bit of the good stuff. But keep your wits and your confidence about you. There's a balance in game between outright dismissal and cocky aloofness.

Remember, the game is made in comfort. Once you have the attraction, she has to see you making some connection, or she will feel like you will just leave. Girls have to have some promise of security, even if it is false.

Not quite. I have no issues with the whole vulnerability thing, I've been gaming long enough where I'm not afraid of a beta moment. The problem is more with my attitude than with my game. I think I've actually just become an asshole through and through.

It's not exclusive to game either, it's all encompassing.

Post: #13

I have a question on this topic, but not exactly what the OP was about.

What about players who are extremely smooth with little asshole game? You know, guys who play it charming like Ryan Gosling. Very charming and sweet with women, certainly has a cocky attitude but as far as you know, no explicit "asshole" behavior.

I'm sure we all know some guys like this in real life, those who charm with honeyed-words and class. How are they different/similar to the asshole game?

Post: #14

(04-28-2014 08:10 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  I have a question on this topic, but not exactly what the OP was about.

What about players who are extremely smooth with little asshole game? You know, guys who play it charming like Ryan Gosling. Very charming and sweet with women, certainly has a cocky attitude but as far as you know, no explicit "asshole" behavior.

I'm sure we all know some guys like this in real life, those who charm with honeyed-words and class. How are they different/similar to the asshole game?

That's all about getting an emotional connection. Then pulling away and giving your attention to another girl. You give them a little taste then deny them. It's the same way strippers tease use then deny us until we fess up the cash. We tease them then deny them attention until they fess up the poosy.

Post: #15

If you're high value in her eyes, just be charming. Anything that makes you too much of an asshole can be overkill.

Are you familiar with Hank Moody? Notice how he isn't really a dick or an asshole to girls? It's because he's already high value to the girls or sets that frame from the beginning and from that point on he just relies on charisma and charm. He's still cocky, but a charming and playful type, not an asshole type.

Post: #16

Tsk tsk. The problem is obvious. You're caught in the robotic, structural interaction models of a game you over practiced.

Add more natural, warm blooded fluidity into you existing system. You think you were better five years ago because you allowed more variety in your choice of behaviors within an interaction. As the eye contact and pupil dilation study providing a background for my argument, attraction is founded in novelty, bonding and excitement.

A cold blooded aura serves its purpose, but you have to feel your crowd. Women and people in general aren't always receptive to constant dominance posturing. Think of your most emulated friend in high school or the undergraduate years. This person always carried an air of subjugation, but remember the times out when the group made toasts or performed celebrations? You may have felt lower ranking than your boss/manager/team captain any given day, but that inviting charisma they allowed to display is key to locking loyalty down, group or individual. This is why untrained sociopaths have their limitations. You want to be the carrot that dangles, but not the precipice of Everest.

Post: #17

These last three posts are what I wanted to steer the conversation towards.

I understand that asshole game may be the way to go for some, but I don't want to be that guy. My value is high, and I think girls and even people in general would be drawn to me more if I was more down to earth.

Ryan Gosling is a good example. Hank Moody is a good example.

At least I am aware of it now so I can turn it around.

Post: #18

Mayhem, sell the golden egg that you are. Do it in a way that appears you slipped self flattery unconsciously or by mistake. A smirk should be ever present. Your actions should say, "life is good and it's good to me every day."

Post: #19

(04-28-2014 10:05 AM)TonySandos Wrote:  Mayhem, sell the golden egg that you are. Do it in a way that appears you slipped self flattery unconsciously or by mistake. A smirk should be ever present. Your actions should say, "life is good and it's good to me every day."

Thanks man. I might have to write that one down somewhere.

Post: #20

I can relate to this thread. I run 100% asshole game all the time. It comes easy to me cuz I'm naturally an asshole. I have had times when it backfired and I regretted it for sure, but it's not that easy to change.

Post: #21

I'm glad you made this thread as I have been ruining into the same issue. I've fucked up with 3 different girls because I kept on running asshole game. Is it just me or is asshole game the funnest?

Post: #22

^ It can be. My mind has been blown as to some of the shit I have been able to get away with.

There is a point though where everything you learn on here meets reality and you have to make adjustments.

You have to consider your lifestyle too. My end game has always been to have charisma and class through the roof. Of course you still need a cutthroat dark side to balance, but I'd rather go down as a George Clooney than a Tucker Max when it's all said and done.

Time to man up and reinvent myself.

Post: #23

In my experience, girls respond to a charismatic/witty game much better than the old-fashioned asshole game, they seem to be over it. Key is to stand out and to be good company.

Post: #24

I found this http://donlak.com/2012/03/12/being-good-...successes/

If anyone searches this topic again it's a pretty helpful article.

Post: #25

For some reason my game has unnaturally swung towards "huge asshole" way too hard, to the point where me and the women almost become adversaries but not in a serious manner. I imagine this breaks rapport somewhat.

I've always had a silver tongue especially when it comes to trolling women.

I am close to just insulting some women I'm flirting with. while some laugh it off. im sure it's had bad effects.