Post: #1

With a bit help from people here I'm trying to re-evaluate my situation. Which got me into thinking, if we all have to maximize our potential values, which ones are the most rewarding and has the best ROI?

There are basically two components: GAME and ATTRACTIVENESS

1. Obviously game is the great equalizer. Everybody has to work for it no matter who you are. Of course, how much you need game depends on your situation. If you look like Ryan Gosling then you can rock it with average or low game (this is when attractiveness come into play)

However, game requires work, a lot of work actually. Assuming you are not a natural and starts out like Roosh and me, getting good at game means approaching thousands of women, spending money on clubs, drinks, dates and tickets to the moon etc. Also requires lots of energy. Discounting intangible investment (depression, rejection, effect on self-esteem, putting a rope around your neck bc the first girl you approached thought ya ugly) game requires a lot of investment.

2. Attractiveness. Style, looks, body language, deep voice, 12' dick, gorilla biceps, job etc. Clothes cost $, training in gym and voice cost $ and discipline and energy. Everything cost $ and effort. Some of these are unchangeable, so we focus on the changeable factors.

If your average then obviously you need to work on both game and attractiveness. However, since most of us aren't rich and have to sleep, it's better to strategize our investment at any particular period.

My question is, which factors give you the best ROI or works best for you in the immediate future (long-term speaking both factors even out)? Does improving your style has a more pronounced effect than improving your game for ex?

Post: #2

If we're just talking night game

Passive Game - 2 hours @ the gym every night working out, stretching, cardio, (yoga and Zumba for some of y'all pervs) - 10 hours a week + meal prep and eating right. (and making more bank, getting better logistics, more world experience, more memories and stories to tell...)

versus

Active Game - Going out to bars and clubs on Thursday, Friday, Saturday (or if you're smart, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday) for 4 hours each outing, and focusing on approaching, stopping, opening, transitioning, and then pushing for the close (12 hours a week?)

For guys new to the game, i'd say Active game is more important in those first 3-6 months (or year)

For guys that have gotten their dicks wet already with a couple of one night stands or closes on day 2, i'd say Passive game is more important - because it augments what you do on any given night.

As you transition, and get "this part of your life handled", more experience in both arenas allows you access to more quantity, better quality, and more quality women.

For vets, well for me at least, in my late 30's, the game has spread out.

Still do both, with more emphasis on the passive aspects, but the hunger for temporary pleasure has changed to a search for a more stable mental and financial environment. I.E. the passion gets transferred to other things.

Which I think is the normal course for most guys.

I suddenly understand those dudes with massive Lionel Train sets in their basements. How guys will restore a Camaro just to do it. Et cetera. At some point the empire buliding/legacy leaving urge starts to kick in. Possibly because the day to day is disappointing in many ways.

Just pontificating..

WIA

Post: #3

IMO I would say game. While style may get an IOI and get your foot in the door w/o game her interest may quickly fade. I also find game is applicable outside of women...the dynamics of it can also applied (with tweaks) in the workplace.

Post: #4

(05-14-2014 06:49 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  Passive Game - 2 hours @ the gym every night working out, stretching, cardio, (yoga and Zumba for some of y'all pervs) - 10 hours a week + meal prep and eating right. (and making more bank, getting better logistics, more world experience, more memories and stories to tell...)

2 hours working out at the gym every night? That's overkill, I find it hard to believe anyone's actually doing that. One hour lifting sessions 3, max 4 times a week depending on your program and cardio on rest days is all most men need.

Post: #5

Personally I would say Active Game in the sense of becoming a personable man, and interacting with not only women, but within all social situations. What kickstarts the process is becoming confident in all facets of life, and translating that to women, business, and all relationships in life.

In my opinion, focusing on The Mind, The Body, and The Spirit leads to becoming the best man one can become, but not necessarily in the alley of "getting chicks". There is literally no downside to investing in these three focuses, and we should not neglect them while working on becoming a social creature.

To summarize: Return on getting girls? Going out and gaining confidence. Return on life in general? Focusing on oneself.

Post: #6

It really depends on the situation, but for the average man the most profitable investment is game, followed by bodybuilding. Exceptions exist, though. Here's an analogy that I like:

Imagine a successful seducer with good game and nice body who lives a "hippie" homeless lifestyle at the beach and bangs tourists all the time, but his reckless lifestyle has left him with only half of his teeth, and even they are rotting fast.

Would our sexy hippie with rotten teeth benefit from improving his game? Sure. But getting a job and saving for crowns, implants and caries/gum disease treatment would be far more profitable for him.

One must always consider the diminishing returns.

Post: #7

(05-14-2014 06:25 PM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  With a bit help from people here I'm trying to re-evaluate my situation. Which got me into thinking, if we all have to maximize our potential values, which ones are the most rewarding and has the best ROI?

There are basically two components: GAME and ATTRACTIVENESS

1. Obviously game is the great equalizer. Everybody has to work for it no matter who you are. Of course, how much you need game depends on your situation. If you look like Ryan Gosling then you can rock it with average or low game (this is when attractiveness come into play)

However, game requires work, a lot of work actually. Assuming you are not a natural and starts out like Roosh and me, getting good at game means approaching thousands of women, spending money on clubs, drinks, dates and tickets to the moon etc. Also requires lots of energy. Discounting intangible investment (depression, rejection, effect on self-esteem, putting a rope around your neck bc the first girl you approached thought ya ugly) game requires a lot of investment.

2. Attractiveness. Style, looks, body language, deep voice, 12' dick, gorilla biceps, job etc. Clothes cost $, training in gym and voice cost $ and discipline and energy. Everything cost $ and effort. Some of these are unchangeable, so we focus on the changeable factors.

If your average then obviously you need to work on both game and attractiveness. However, since most of us aren't rich and have to sleep, it's better to strategize our investment at any particular period.

My question is, which factors give you the best ROI or works best for you in the immediate future (long-term speaking both factors even out)? Does improving your style has a more pronounced effect than improving your game for ex?

Improving your style has great effect but improving your income has even greater effect.
Most of the game is naturally instilled to you by genetic predisposition what usually is lacking is time and money.

Post: #8

Social status.

Social status not only gets you chicks, it gets you friends and acquaintances who can help you out in other areas of life. The minimum investment required to achieve significant social status is high but the return is huge. Becoming social chair for some large organization and organizing bar crawls will do a lot to raise your status in your community. It sounds stupid but student government positions can do a lot to get you laid. If you are the guy going around and talking to bar/restaurant managers and you are the guy tipping them $500 (on someone else's card of course) at the end of the night your status rises quickly and people will get to know you. You bring a new girl into a fancy bar and the owner already knows you by name, maybe even offers you a coupe of drinks on the house. You might as well be the fucking president in the eyes of most chicks. You will get laid.

Post: #9

As El Boarracho said:

social status--->most easily obtained by--->
Being in a 2nd/3rd world country long term--->most easily obtained by--->
having a passive/location independent income over $X ( where X=the lifestyle you want for de bitches you want)

So bottom line is passive/location independent income. Game is required everywhere.

Post: #10

(05-18-2014 04:22 AM)iknowexactly Wrote:  As El Boarracho said:

social status--->most easily obtained by--->
Being in a 2nd/3rd world country long term--->most easily obtained by--->
having a passive/location independent income over $X ( where X=the lifestyle you want for de bitches you want)

So bottom line is passive/location independent income. Game is required everywhere.

I don't think being a foreigner in a 3rd world country automatically makes you high social status. What it does allow you to do is network with local high status people and through that become part of the "crew".

Passive income is essential for that. Best bang for your buck is to get that passive income stream going.

Post: #11

Working on being a better human being and connecting with others based on common humanity and genuine empathy instead of sociopathic status games.

Not being afraid to show her that I find her attractive.

Thinking less, feeling more.

Focusing on more self-acceptance and self-approval and being more comfortable in my own skin.

Spending more time in a relaxed state of arousal.

Sleeping, exercising and eating well.

Improving my subcommunications.

Having fun and being at ease.

Undoing the mental/emotional baggage and conditioning that has accumulated over the years, in order to realign myself with my authentic self--being natural.

Post: #12

1. Logistics.

2. Qualification.

To be able to accomplish either of these things you have to have your act together.

"Having your act together" means different things to different people.

To me it means having a solid frame of mind - to the point where you are cognizant of the fact that you create your own reality, which is why I love the red pill metaphor.

Post: #13

P4P

Post: #14

1. Basic game and social skills
-your not getting laid if your social outcast

2. Logistics
-water tight logistics will get you laid. You need strong game to overcome bad logistics.

3. Inner Game
-If you don't love yourself, you wont convince a quality chick to love you. Gym and excelling at work.

4. Advanced game
-You have basic game, logistics, and inner game down. You should be getting laid. Advanced game will get you laid even more.

5. Yourself
-Youve handled the basics, got logistics tight, and your game is solid. Continue self improvement and try to avoid pregnancy and STDs