Post: #1

I am and always have been a skinny guy. My immediate family is skinny, but much of my extended family represents the average American weight. My family has ALWAYS eaten lots of grains. Pasta, bread, cereals, etc.

Overall growing up, we ate pretty well. Lots of veggies, not a lot of processed junk. But we eat tons of carbs. And everyone is in good shape.

For a while I tried gluten free/paleo, and I did not notice any real difference besides being very hungry all the time. I did not sleep better, feel more alert, or anything like that.

The premise of Paleo is that we are evolved to eat certain things, but my ancestry is basically dead on the people who first began farming wheat and eating it. My ancestors have had 10,000 years to evolve to use wheat. Indeed, scientists have shown that the rate of human evolution has accelerated in the last 10,000 years, as human life has changed drastically from hunter-gatherers to modern life.

You see evidence of this in lactose tolerance. The ability to digest lactose was not widespread before approx. 10,000 years ago, but it spread quickly through some parts of the world and now most Europeans are lactose tolerant. Why wheat should be any different seems puzzling to me.

Certainly some people have celiac disease and that is no joke, but for me I have not noticed any difference on/off of gluten.

One thing commonly stated is that gluten causes inflammation, as well as a quick blood sugar -> insulin spike which quickly leaves you with low energy. I just ate 3 eggs and fresh cheese on a big hunk of fresh wheat bread. We will see if I start feeling sluggish but this is not something that I have experienced.

Just my 2 Cents.

Post: #2

You're right in that humans continued to evolve after the invention of agriculture as they adapted to specific niches around the world. The Dutch, for example, are something like 97% lactose-tolerant, as their ancestors were quick to domesticate cows and sheep, while most Asians still have trouble processing dairy.

It just depends on the person. After discovering paleo about 18 months ago, I stripped my diet of everything but meat/fish/fowl/eggs/fruits/vegetables, and then slowly started adding things back in to see how my body reacted to them.

I found that while fermented dairy and cheese is no problem, more than a small glass of milk gives me gas, bloating and diarrhea. I can handle small amounts of gluten, but anything more than a piece of bread and I get stomach cramps, gas, and occasionally even blood in my stool.

My step-brother, however, can down cookies and milk like it's his job and feel just fine. It all depends on the person and their biological lineage.

Post: #3

I am about to go on a 2-4 week gluten free diet as an experiment. I definitely do not have celiacs disease, or a severe intolerance of gluten, but am interested in seeing if it has any effects. My one health issue is sinus issues/blocked nose which is usually associated with lactose, but I'm not prepared to give up dairy products. Rather just take lactase if I really have to. But am interested if avoiding gluten has any effects on sinus and mucous problems.

I already tend to eat very little gluten since I think any meal with a high gluten content, actually even just a high carb content, is a rip off. You see lots of smaller restaurants here offering various versions of pizza, pasta or sandwiches and pretending this is some sort of main dish. They're just serving cheap and nasty carbs to fill people up at low cost to themselves.

Anyway, I'll report back on any effects. I trust the OP is Middle Eastern. I'm Northern European, so am probably a bit more likely to gain something from this experiment.

Post: #4

"My one health issue is sinus issues/blocked nose which is usually associated with lactose, but I'm not prepared to give up dairy products. "

This is like saying "I want to be lied to because the truth is too terrible."

When you go without a food to which you're allergic, and notice a marked improvement in health or symptoms, you go from saying "I can't live without this" to "how do I replace it?"

Post: #5

(06-10-2014 12:32 PM)Basil Ransom Wrote:  "My one health issue is sinus issues/blocked nose which is usually associated with lactose, but I'm not prepared to give up dairy products. "

This is like saying "I want to be lied to because the truth is too terrible."

When you go without a food to which you're allergic, and notice a marked improvement in health or symptoms, you go from saying "I can't live without this" to "how do I replace it?"

Haha. Maybe I'm a bit like that. Many years ago I went without dairy for at least a month and experienced some benefit, but not all that much. It is not only for reasons of taste and lifestyle that I don't want to give it up. I am also a naturally skinny guy and have only been able to put on healthy weight in recent years by working out and using wheight gain protein powders that are invariably dairy based. Though the powders are apparently low in lactose itself I always use milk when mixing them to add calories/nutrition.

Basically gluten is easier to give up than dairy. In the sense that I can easily see a way to consume the nutrients and calories I want without gluten, whereas dairy will be very difficult to substitute. You're right that if you have a food intolerance you have a food intolerance. Just that in that case I'd probably rather take lactase before a meal, rather than give up dairy.

Post: #6

"Basically gluten is easier to give up than dairy. "



You drew a conclusion before doing any research or investigation.

Post: #7

(06-10-2014 01:27 PM)Basil Ransom Wrote:  "Basically gluten is easier to give up than dairy. "



You drew a conclusion before doing any research or investigation.

OK. I PREDICT giving up gluten will be easier than giving up dairy. I've already experienced being dairy free for more than a month, though this was years back. Like I said I already eat much less gluten than is typical, but after my experiment I'll write up about my experiences. 2-4 weeks. No gluten at all in that time, with the exception of really tiny amounts in foods where it is near impossible to identify e.g. like in sushi vinegar, which apparently contains a tiny amount of wheat.

PS: I mean "easier" in the sense of fewer cravings and ability to substitute other products or just go without it without ill effect. From a PRACTICAL point of view I think avoiding gluten 100% is probably slightly more difficult than avoiding dairy 100% because so many foods have "wheat gluten" in them. Foods you wouldn't think contained it. This is an issue for people who have a genuine and serious wheat allergy. I knew a girl who could quite literally die if she consumed a small amount of wheat (and I think gluten from other grains as well).It was a nightmare. She had to pretty much walk around everywhere with her epipen on her person.

Post: #8

I've been eating less and less dairy. Coconut milk, clarified butter, coconut oil, lots of meat and eggs. It's like taking the bus - if you've never done it, you may imagine it to be impossible and unbearable, whereas if you actually have done it, you can weigh the costs and benefits more fairly, and gauge whether it's worth doing. People always underestimate how easily and quickly they'll adapt, for good or bad.

The nice thing about cheese is that it tastes good with little extra preparation, and is a ready source of protein and fat.

I still use whey frequently.

Post: #9

It's been documented recently that basically less then 5% of the population has gluten intolerances. The majority of people are just buying into the hype or have other gastric issues which they mistake is gluten intolerance.

If you come from a linage or grain farmers then glueten should be no problem. I recognize and admit that today's wheat is a hybrid with far more gluten content then older ancient wheats but many of the people whom cry intolerance are just jumping on the fad and retailers have responded with pricy gluten-free products to gouge money. Further cemented proof of this is the prevalence of women whom claim gluten allergies. It's mostly them, as women are notorious for jumping on baseless trends....

Post: #10

(06-10-2014 04:46 PM)kosko Wrote:  It's been documented recently that basically less then 5% of the population has gluten intolerances. The majority of people are just buying into the hype or have other gastric issues which they mistake is gluten intolerance.

If you come from a linage or grain farmers then glueten should be no problem. I recognize and admit that today's wheat is a hybrid with far more gluten content then older ancient wheats but many of the people whom cry intolerance are just jumping on the fad and retailers have responded with pricy gluten-free products to gouge money. Further cemented proof of this is the prevalence of women whom claim gluten allergies. It's mostly them, as women are notorious for jumping on baseless trends....

I mostly agree with you, despite the fact that I've decided to conduct a short gluten free experiment myself. Since right now I hardly ever eat bread, cookies, cakes and the like anyway my feeling is all I really have to do is be a little more vigilant with sauces and other products with gluten containing grains. To me it seems like a cheap experiment, though obviously in practice it may be harder than I anticipate.

Even if I feel a little better without gluten during the experiment there's no way I'll become a no-gluten Nazi in the long term. Unless you really do have serious issues that just seems like a waste of energy. Just avoid the big gluten containing foods and don't worry too much about small amounts in various products.

Post: #11

I've tried the low carb and gluten free thing a couple times and I've never noticed any difference in how I feel. I think that it's something that people should strive to limit but a couple sandwiches or a bowl of pasta once a week isn't going to hurt anyone. I try to be quite strict with my own cooking and a lot more relaxed when I go out to eat.

Post: #12

Giving up dairy was much easier than giving up gluten. I am gluten intolerant so I gave that up and it was very hard making it through the first month. I am not lactose intolerant but I recently gave up dairy as a little experiment to see if I notice any health benefits after a month. Only the first few days were hard and now I'm fine without it.

While only a fraction of the population is gluten intolerant - a medical condition - the vast majority of the population would be better off limiting their grain intake.

Post: #13

(06-10-2014 04:46 PM)kosko Wrote:  It's been documented recently that basically less then 5% of the population has gluten intolerances. The majority of people are just buying into the hype or have other gastric issues which they mistake is gluten intolerance.

That's not true. Few people test positive for Celiac disease. Gluten intolerance is different. Many people have intolerance to gluten, to what extent varies.

Gluten is not natural to digest. It's wheat which has been altered at the molecular level and American wheat products now have four times the chromosomes of the wheat our ancestors ate.

It's not hype at all. I know many people who cut out gluten and noticed positive difference. I suggest reading the book "Wheat Belly".