Post: #26

German industry is currently ramping up a strategy called "Industry 4.0", it's about optimizing industrial production/automation for different batch sizes (making small batches profitable) and the according software to control and monitor all this stuff. The goal is something like an intelligent factory.
So if you are a software dev in the field of automation, a bright future will be ahead. Germany as a technology leader in automation will certainly kick-start the whole process. Never mind the production of cars in Germany is already >90%-95% automatized.

America has its own "Smart Manufacturing Leadership Coalition" aiming for something similar.
Further information:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industry_4.0

Post: #27

I don't think people who are learning to code right now are trying to compete with people who have ten years of experience. We are competing with other people who have no experience. Maybe it is too late, but I don't think anyone who is self-teaching should quit now because a couple people on the Internet started in the womb.

Post: #28

(06-27-2014 06:00 PM)CaptainCrazy Wrote:  

(06-25-2014 07:35 PM)nomansland Wrote:  There is a lot of talk about programming as a valuable skill for both being employed and going the self-employed route.

However, there were a lot of comp sci graduates that graduated during the tech bubble, switched careers, and are now regretting not pursuing it further because there is demand now. I wanted to see some discussion on this, either here or elsewhere.

Granted, there are many other factors to consider.

One, people really overvalued tech stocks, including venture capitalists and the general public. This is what created the bubble.

The other thing is that IT is a huge field, like anything else, so different niches have different demand.

I am trying to learn programming after work, but this was just something on my mind. Either way, I will continue because even if it becomes saturated or devalued, it would be a good skill to have to automate things and make my life easier, which could be potential products to sell and make some money.

A) We are in a bubble.

B) Programming skills will be more and more valuable as robots replace humans in the workplace and the amount of data need to be real-time processed grow exponentially.

C) If you do it because it is trendy or will be valuable in the future, quit now.

If you didn't start programming in high school, you are too late.

If you were actually into it you would be pretty good at it way before the topic of picking up chicks entered your consciousness.

Before I get flamed here, it is a "red pill" of software development. Take it or leave it. The best developers started programming very early in life, in high school and some millenias even in primary school.

D) It will never become saturated as though there are a lot of programmers, the majority of them are total shit because they are in the game for money or career or the "startup dream".

I have to disagree with this point. If you started earlier, sure, you'll have a lot more experience; the same applies to any other skill. But starting early doesn't necessarily mean you're going to be good at it, either. When I first started my intro class to CS, there were students who had prior experience(high school programming classes, self-taught programming, etc) with programming and I ran circles around them when we got to more advanced subjects like implementing sorting trees and writing algorithms that were efficient. Point is, on paper your experience will give you an upper hand over other people, but who is Google more likely to higher, the guy who had a summer internship at a previous company but couldn't write an efficient quicksort algorithm or the guy who has no prior experience but can write an efficient quicksort algorithm within 5 minutes?

Post: #29

(06-28-2014 10:54 AM)game_ethic Wrote:  I have to disagree with this point. If you started earlier, sure, you'll have a lot more experience; the same applies to any other skill. But starting early doesn't necessarily mean you're going to be good at it, either. When I first started my intro class to CS, there were students who had prior experience(high school programming classes, self-taught programming, etc) with programming and I ran circles around them when we got to more advanced subjects like implementing sorting trees and writing algorithms that were efficient. Point is, on paper your experience will give you an upper hand over other people, but who is Google more likely to higher, the guy who had a summer internship at a previous company but couldn't write an efficient quicksort algorithm or the guy who has no prior experience but can write an efficient quicksort algorithm within 5 minutes?

I know they won't hire someone who can't tell "hire" from "higher".

Post: #30

You dont need to be a programmer to get value from programming. Most of the corporate world has incredibly repetitive tasks. And with a little bit of basic programming, you can automate a good deal of it. Further, when you know just a bit of programming knowledge suddenly you become more qualified than everyone who cant program which is a massive group of people. And if you can program at a decent level AND have good business and communication skills, you can always be employed since most tech people (especially Indians and Chinese) are the missing business and communication side.

Also, the Big Data IT craze and analytics means programming skills are ever more sought after.

Post: #31

(06-28-2014 11:24 AM)roid Wrote:  

(06-28-2014 10:54 AM)game_ethic Wrote:  I have to disagree with this point. If you started earlier, sure, you'll have a lot more experience; the same applies to any other skill. But starting early doesn't necessarily mean you're going to be good at it, either. When I first started my intro class to CS, there were students who had prior experience(high school programming classes, self-taught programming, etc) with programming and I ran circles around them when we got to more advanced subjects like implementing sorting trees and writing algorithms that were efficient. Point is, on paper your experience will give you an upper hand over other people, but who is Google more likely to higher, the guy who had a summer internship at a previous company but couldn't write an efficient quicksort algorithm or the guy who has no prior experience but can write an efficient quicksort algorithm within 5 minutes?

I know they won't hire someone who can't tell "hire" from "higher".

Yes, because there is no way that he sent this from his phone and the word was auto-completed. Take your attitude to reddit or 4chan where it will be more appreciated.

Post: #32

(06-25-2014 07:35 PM)nomansland Wrote:  There is a lot of talk about programming as a valuable skill for both being employed and going the self-employed route.

However, there were a lot of comp sci graduates that graduated during the tech bubble, switched careers, and are now regretting not pursuing it further because there is demand now. I wanted to see some discussion on this, either here or elsewhere.

Granted, there are many other factors to consider.

One, people really overvalued tech stocks, including venture capitalists and the general public. This is what created the bubble.

The other thing is that IT is a huge field, like anything else, so different niches have different demand.

I am trying to learn programming after work, but this was just something on my mind. Either way, I will continue because even if it becomes saturated or devalued, it would be a good skill to have to automate things and make my life easier, which could be potential products to sell and make some money.

It depends what you mean by 'programming'.

Today, there is just a cluster fuck of higher level languages that don't take advantage of the hardware they are running on at all.

And languages will keep getting higher level, and more inefficient. The day of people being able to program by connecting blocks together is a long way off, but what we have right now is a nightmare.

And don't forget that CPU technology has pretty much hit the wall. Processors are not getting faster. They are getting wider. But that means being able to program for concurrency. Not easy at all.

But, you probably don't worry about the beauty of code. Its efficiency. You probably mean: what do I need to know to make it in the market place?

That is another matter.

You have to fall in line anyway, because the APIs that exist for current OS and hardware will bind you.

There needs to be a revolution, but it won't come from you. All the time more and more lowest common denominator.

As a case in point, you can probably make as much money, if not more, by being competent in html and javascript and php, and able to use a bit of photoshop, and therefore being a web designer, than you are by being a pretty good C++ programmer.

It is a lot more difficult to be a good C++ programmer than all of those other things, but it is not rewarded. Then again, don't listen to me, this is just my take, and I might be very wrong.

My point is, if anything, it is not just about being clever, it is about being multi-faceted and versatile. And PHP and Javascript can be damn hard and involved when you get going. Most people that can code Javascript could not code a Renderer in it. But some can.

There isn't really money in coding any more.

Too many people doing it coz they love it and will work for peanuts. Not just talking about the Indians here, some of them are very good, but most of them very bad. It's supply and demand. Too many coders. Not very good and the quality goes down of course, and the better ones will earn even more.

To get that good, you need to be supremely talented and work very very hard for many years.

Do it if you love it, work on pet projects, little apps for android or what not that might earn you a little side line. But work for a big corporate in a cubicle?

Just my thoughts. Don't listen to me.

Edit:
If you are really interested in this subject then check out The Register - http://www.theregister.co.uk/
Dominic Connor especially - he goes into detail about the market place and what is needed and what you have to do to get hired, and how much you can expect to earn, once you do.

Post: #33

I work as a programmer in the Phil and more foreign countries are sending work over here. Labor here is cheap and the people speak better English than their other Asian counterparts or than programmers from India. But companies here are also having trouble filling up IT positions so I guess it's the same around the world. There are lots of work all over the world (and programming is one profession that you can work remotely) but not enough talents to fill the demand.

Post: #34

Software engineer / developer / programmer / whatever the hell you want to call me here.

It's absolutely a valuable skill. Both people and companies are always looking for new ways to improve their business processes and in turn need folks to create the software that allows them to gain more efficiency. Programming will always be in demand since new tools are always in demand.

Post: #35

(06-28-2014 12:47 PM)Rigsby Wrote:  There isn't really money in coding any more.

In the other coding thread I gave a link for average salaries for coders in Python and Ruby. There is definitely money in coding. What there isn't money in is basic webdesign in PHP. Who needs PHP these days, when content management systems like Wordpress can do pretty much anything 90% of users want it to do. Then again, when one door closes another door opens, because now you can write premium plugins for Wordpress which is a huge market.

In the end, it is about problem solving and creativity. Some coders seem to think the tool is the product, they are the tool maker, not the craftsman and that is fine, but there are a million business opportunities out there.

Augmented reality with cloud computing running big data is the next big thing, just read a Wired magazine and see how our physical reality is going to become hooked to the cloud really soon. Sprinkler systems who will turn on and adjust according to weather forecasts etc. What does that take to make? Not a lot probably, a hookup to Weather.com api, but 90% of codemonkeys don't have an imaginative bone in their body, so they won't do anything about it.

Java and Android are apparently what most of these smart devices are going to run on, so that would be a good stack to get into.

Post: #36

(06-27-2014 06:00 PM)CaptainCrazy Wrote:  If you didn't start programming in high school, you are too late.

....

D) It will never become saturated as though there are a lot of programmers, the majority of them are total shit because they are in the game for money or career or the "startup dream".

This post is so full of programmer nerd elitism it is absurd.

I didn't program a fucking thing until I was 24. I have had endless career opportunities. As my previous examples in this thread I have a friend that didn't program a thing until he was 26. Was a biologist lab worker before. He will probably be make $150k+ in the next few years. Not bad for 2 years professional experience so far.

And what is wrong going and making $ at something that suits you well without it being your obsessive passion? $ is $.

My god.

To respond to all the fear of low barrier to entry and skill is everything posts and there is no $ in coding...

You cannot be serious, business kids are starting to head to Silicon Valley over Wall Street. If you get stock options as an engineer you can make serious bank. Even without that it isn't hard to make $120k+ with limited experience if you are a go-getter.

Yes it is for aspie guys. Which most programmers are. I failed to mention my 3 examples are all guys that could have gone into client relationship businesses and done well including myself. If you have skill and can communicate you are considered pretty valuable. There are many guys that can't speak English well, smell, or can't socialize. These guys have skills, but most people don't want them to move up very far.

Post: #37

(07-07-2014 08:18 PM)Travesty444 Wrote:  [quote='CaptainCrazy' pid='766306' dateline='1403910008']

As my previous examples in this thread I have a friend that didn't program a thing until he was 26. Was a biologist lab worker before. He will probably be make $150k+ in the next few years. Not bad for 2 years professional experience so far.

My god.

Which languages is your friend coding in?

Post: #38

(07-07-2014 08:23 PM)Ice Wrote:  

(07-07-2014 08:18 PM)Travesty444 Wrote:  [quote='CaptainCrazy' pid='766306' dateline='1403910008']

As my previous examples in this thread I have a friend that didn't program a thing until he was 26. Was a biologist lab worker before. He will probably be make $150k+ in the next few years. Not bad for 2 years professional experience so far.

My god.

Which languages is your friend coding in?

C# .NET, his latest job was migrating a Python codebase to .NET, now he is an architect/manager of a domestic and overseas team.

Post: #39

(07-07-2014 01:05 AM)berserk Wrote:  

(06-28-2014 12:47 PM)Rigsby Wrote:  There isn't really money in coding any more.

In the other coding thread I gave a link for average salaries for coders in Python and Ruby. There is definitely money in coding. What there isn't money in is basic webdesign in PHP. Who needs PHP these days, when content management systems like Wordpress can do pretty much anything 90% of users want it to do. Then again, when one door closes another door opens, because now you can write premium plugins for Wordpress which is a huge market.

In the end, it is about problem solving and creativity. Some coders seem to think the tool is the product, they are the tool maker, not the craftsman and that is fine, but there are a million business opportunities out there.

Augmented reality with cloud computing running big data is the next big thing, just read a Wired magazine and see how our physical reality is going to become hooked to the cloud really soon. Sprinkler systems who will turn on and adjust according to weather forecasts etc. What does that take to make? Not a lot probably, a hookup to Weather.com api, but 90% of codemonkeys don't have an imaginative bone in their body, so they won't do anything about it.

Java and Android are apparently what most of these smart devices are going to run on, so that would be a good stack to get into.

Ah sure. I was just generalising. I don't really know much about it. I know lots of people that do well. Whether I would want to encourage someone to get into the game and make them think they are going to do alright for themselves?

I defer to your greater experience. Maybe it depends what part of the world you are in as well. I don't know.