Post: #1

For the past two months I met several girls. I have taken five of them out during that time. During these dates I managed to kino and kiss four of them.

When I meet them, I spit my game and do light kinoing like hand holding. I text them and we set up a day to go out. On day two we go to a park or lounge. They're FOB asian girls, by the way. I kino and kiss most of them on day two. Two of them went out with me on day three. Here's the problem...

For some fucking goddamn reason that's a big mystery, these girls stopped seeing me. One girl said it wouldn't be a good idea to see me again. Another girl who was very interested in me thanked me and said she doesn't want to see me. All of them flaked after going out with me.

I swear to god I didn't do ANYTHING wrong. I use the same game I used last year with good success. I'm clean, got good breath, shaved, confident, look like an actor, etc. So I shouldn't have such consistent bad luck.

Can someone tell me what the fuck I'm doing or not doing?? Could it be something that I'm not doing or should be doing during the date on day two's? I swear to god I'm completely lost!

Post: #2

(07-18-2014 10:16 PM)tboz Wrote:  Can someone tell me what the fuck I'm doing or not doing??

Actually, why don't YOU tell us what you're doing (as in facts) and we'll tell you why we didn't think it worked.

(07-18-2014 10:16 PM)tboz Wrote:  I swear to god I didn't do ANYTHING wrong. I use the same game I used last year with good success.

And we don't know your game from last year. Care to elaborate?

Since we're assuming, can I also assume is that you had a hockey mask on during these approaches and it worked last year because it was halloween?

I'm messing with you but MORE DETAIL NEXT TIME; my troll radar has gone off.

Post: #3

If you have had success previously then maybe you are getting entitled during the dates.

I have had this happen especially with some 6's that are just cute and don't rev me up. I just expect my prior success to translate into future success. Many times this may come off in the form of you rushing stages towards the bang or not being a good listener and skimming over things.

If this isn't it, then it probably means it is an inner game confidence issue you need to fix, something outside of girls is affecting your game.

Girls get turned off quickly when they know you are going through the motions. Your game has to be on point. You have to show up 100% for your best chances.

Post: #4

(07-18-2014 10:16 PM)tboz Wrote:  For the past two months I met several girls. I have taken five of them out during that time. During these dates I managed to kino and kiss four of them.

When I meet them, I spit my game and do light kinoing like hand holding. I text them and we set up a day to go out. On day two we go to a park or lounge. They're FOB asian girls, by the way. I kino and kiss most of them on day two. Two of them went out with me on day three. Here's the problem...

For some fucking goddamn reason that's a big mystery, these girls stopped seeing me. One girl said it wouldn't be a good idea to see me again. Another girl who was very interested in me thanked me and said she doesn't want to see me. All of them flaked after going out with me.

I swear to god I didn't do ANYTHING wrong. I use the same game I used last year with good success. I'm clean, got good breath, shaved, confident, look like an actor, etc. So I shouldn't have such consistent bad luck.

Can someone tell me what the fuck I'm doing or not doing?? Could it be something that I'm not doing or should be doing during the date on day two's? I swear to god I'm completely lost!

I don't know you and what game you usually do.

What I do know is that by losing your composure here on the forum you appear to be putting too much value into these women. Or maybe just yourself.

By the way you're reacting here on the forum. I'd say those girls made the right choice.

Take some time away and take care of yourself by focusing on other things that make you happy. Maybe you're having a dry spell. Maybe they're having their own issues. Whatever.

Don't blame yourself too much. Good luck.

Post: #5

you should video tape a part of one of your dates with girls. It's so hard to really see what's happening when it's your own personal experience, but if you understand what makes a guy attractive, then you can check out the video and see what kind of things you are doing wrong that you don't notice. If girls aren't wanting to see you again, there is an obvious mistake you are making plain and simple. My guess is that it has something to do with body language.

Post: #6

(07-18-2014 10:58 PM)Cobra Wrote:  

(07-18-2014 10:16 PM)tboz Wrote:  Can someone tell me what the fuck I'm doing or not doing??

Actually, why don't YOU tell us what you're doing (as in facts) and we'll tell you why we didn't think it worked.

(07-19-2014 04:12 AM)20Nation Wrote:  you should video tape a part of one of your dates with girls. My guess is that it has something to do with body language.

Yes, I understand, I'll give details. Sorry I didn't respond earlier since I was busy gaming. By the way, I use gaming tactics from a guy named Justin Wayne from NYC. I don't know if you've heard of him but his in-field stuff is good. Here are examples of what happened on my last dates:

Example 1:
After I met a Korean girl on the street, we texted each other. At first she didnt want to go out with me because she has a boyfriend in Korea. But I managed to get her to see me. We went to a lounge and had drinks. She drank from my glass and I kinoed her in hugging her, she held my hand tightly. Although she didnt let me kiss her, I got very close. After the date she text me saying that she enjoyed it a lot.

The Problem:
Days after the date I text her to see her again. She said she doesnt think it would be a good idea to because she doesnt want a relationship and is only staying here for 5 months. I kept my cool and text her that she's looking too far into the future and to take it easy. I'll let you know what happens with this.

Example 2:
I met another Korean coming out of an art gallery. That same day, I took her to a museum were I held her hand and hugged her. No kissing though because I thought it would turn her off. We met 5 days later at a park where I kissed her. I took her to a lounger that day too. I talked about DHV qualities about myself like, being team captain of a soccer team, working out, traveling and having fun. A week after that, we met at another park where we played frisbee and she enjoyed the views there. I kissed her but she didn't reciprocate.

The Problem:
I text her out again. But she replied that she was in Mexico which she never mentioned before, which was VERY strange. Days later out of nowhere, she text asking about the address of the lounge I took her to before. She didn't even say, "Hi, I'm back!" As a result of this lack of respect, during the text I was cold to her like I was trying to ignore her. She then said that she got a gift for me from Mexico and asked if I could come pick it up. This felt like bait. I took the bait to see where it was leading and told her to meet me soon. When I text her to meet me, she didn't respond. She never text back.


I hope you guys can help diagnose these situations. 20Nation mentioned body language. Just to let you know, I don't have any approach anxiety and try to be alpha and relaxed in my body language. I wish I could video tape my interactions but I dont have anyone to help me with that.

I will appreciate any input whatsoever.

Post: #7

Example 1: She has a boyfriend and maybe she is really trying to be a good girl. Hard to imagine, but they are out there. Especially if she's FOB. Keep at it, she'll most likely break down eventually. If not you, then the next guy. 5 months is a long time, especially if she's hot enough that she's getting approached.

Example 2: It's hard to say. Not saying you were doing this, but it can be a turnoff when someone is promoting themselves. It comes across as egotism, and nobody like an ego. Men are ok with it to a certain point, but women don't like it whatsoever. They want a man who's accomplished, successful and all the things that come from being an ego (self-interested action) in the world, but they can't think that you did it out of self-interest. Sounds contradictory doesn't it?

It's better to let a woman "discover" your DHV qualities, and remain mysterious. The more mysterious you are, combined with her interest in you, she will start to dig around and discover these things on her own, through questions, friends stories, experiences in dating, etc. When they discover something (good) they didn't know, it makes them wonder what other good things they must not know about.

No one can say for sure why Girl 2 lost interest. It may have nothing to do with talking about yourself, but instead there is another guy in the picture, or she doesn't think she'll be able to accomplish what she wants to do with you.

Post: #8

Could you be putting these Asian girls on a pedestal?

You actually come across as a really nice guy OP; perhaps this is the problem?

Post: #9

Work your logistics more so you can escalate harder. Not in one of your dates did you isolate her to escalate toward sex. Go for the bang on the first or second date and make sure you get it by the third.

Post: #10

(07-20-2014 03:19 PM)Onto Wrote:  It's better to let a woman "discover" your DHV qualities, and remain mysterious. The more mysterious you are, combined with her interest in you, she will start to dig around and discover these things on her own, through questions, friends stories, experiences in dating, etc. When they discover something (good) they didn't know, it makes them wonder what other good things they must not know about.

I will definitely work on being more mysterious. But sometime when I'm more mysterious I can come across like an ass. So I need to find a way to come across as mysterious without seeming arrogant.

(07-20-2014 07:43 PM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  Could you be putting these Asian girls on a pedestal?

You actually come across as a really nice guy OP; perhaps this is the problem?

Good question. With finer Asian girls, I think I may be more available to them than with less fine girls. So in that sense I may be putting them on a pedestal. About me coming off as a nice guy, I really don't know. I'll give you an example and hope this can answer that question:

Example:
I met a girl last night coming out of a gallery. She stopped at the bus and I approached her. This is what went down:

Me: I never seen anyone so hypnotized in a gallery like you.
Her: HA HA. It was so interesting. I loved it.
(At this point, the bus comes and we take it. But I can't speak with her since it was crowded. So I wait until she gets off at a stop and follow her to continue talking).
Me: Hey I remember you from the gallery.
Her: Hey! (She was surprised because she didn't know I was in the bus. And she looks at a map on her phone).
Me: What you looking for? Maybe I can help.
Her: I'm looking for the bus terminal.
Me: I know where it is. Follow me, I'll show you.
(We now walk to the terminal).
Me: You look like you come from korea.
Her: Yes I am.
Me: Cool. I went to korea when I was small with my family. And I remember eating kimchi.
Her: Why did your family go there?
Me: My father worked for a company that had many korean friends who invited him there... You look like you study something creative.
Her: Yeah I study graphic design.
Me: Thats cool. Do you go to Parsons?
Her: I do. My friend says FIT is better.
Me: Your friend is crazy. Everyone knows Parsons is better than FIT.
Her: Why do you say that?
Me: Because the best designers graduated from there.
Her: What do you do?
Me: I'm a researcher for a finance company... Have you ever been to a so-so lounge in NY?
Her: Yes I have.

(We talked about other stuff but she was eager to get to her bus. It was leaving for Jersey and she didn't want to be late since that would mean waiting an hour to catch the next one).

Me: Lets stay in touch.
Her: I leave for korea in a month.
Me: So what?
Her: Ha Ha.

She gives me her number. But when I text her, she never responds. This happened on another occasion 2 weeks ago with another chick on the street. What's similar with both these cases is that I didn't get to spend time building comfort since they quickly needed to get to their destination. Maybe thats why I never got responses.

I really need to know based on this above example if I'm being too nice. If I am, what steps should I take to be less nice? If you can give some examples, I'd appreciate it.

Post: #11

(07-21-2014 12:00 AM)Donkey_Riding Wrote:  Work your logistics more so you can escalate harder. Not in one of your dates did you isolate her to escalate toward sex. Go for the bang on the first or second date and make sure you get it by the third.

I did isolate for sex. But they resisted my advances. When I tried to kiss the asian girl at the lounge, she didnt let me, although I was getting very close. Maybe I should've freezed her out. Not all girls go for sex the first or second date, especially asians.

It could be my frame. Maybe I should be more like Tony Montana confident. But, after hearing my explanation and given they're asian, if you still think I should escalate harder, let me know. Please provide great examples on how to do this.

Post: #12

Do you think you manage to give off a sexual vibe with these conversations/dates?

Post: #13

(07-21-2014 12:35 AM)tboz Wrote:  I did isolate for sex. But they resisted my advances. When I tried to kiss the asian girl at the lounge, she didnt let me, although I was getting very close. Maybe I should've freezed her out. Not all girls go for sex the first or second date, especially asians.

Going for a kiss in a lounge is not isolating for sex. I've also read people comment that some Asians aren't comfortable kissing in public (might be relevant since you say they are FOBs).

You should structure the date so that it ends with both of you back in your place of residence. Put on some music, pour some drinks, thengo for the makeout and escalate as far as she will let you (if she gives resistance at a certain step, back off for a bit, and try again later; be persistent). Yes, she won't necessarily fuck you on the first or the second date, but you must still try to get as far as you can, so you aim for the bang. If you assume she's a "good girl" and try to take it slow you're putting her on a pedestal and sabotaging yourself.

For more info see these:
/thread-8681.html
http://www.thumotic.com/the-guaranteed-second-date-ban/

Post: #14

^^^^The truth. Escalating for sex on the first and second date has paid dividends for me. I kept getting "you're a nice guy but..." shtick until I fixed that error in my game.

Post: #15

(07-21-2014 11:52 AM)MdWanderer Wrote:  ^^^^The truth. Escalating for sex on the first and second date has paid dividends for me. I kept getting "you're a nice guy but..." shtick until I fixed that error in my game.

Exactly.

Even if it doesn't happen, she knows you're a sexual motherfucker now and probably wants you more.

My attitude is treat every day as if it's your last.

Post: #16

(07-21-2014 03:12 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  Do you think you manage to give off a sexual vibe with these conversations/dates?

Excellent question. The answer is, no. So thats something I need to work on. When I converse with these girls on day 2s, I talk about interesting and funny topics. But not enough to stimulate them sexually. Again, I need big help here. Maybe I need more sexual topics or tactics to stimulate her sexually?

(07-21-2014 11:40 AM)Donkey_Riding Wrote:  

(07-21-2014 12:35 AM)tboz Wrote:  I did isolate for sex. But they resisted my advances. When I tried to kiss the asian girl at the lounge, she didnt let me, although I was getting very close. Maybe I should've freezed her out. Not all girls go for sex the first or second date, especially asians.

Going for a kiss in a lounge is not isolating for sex. I've also read people comment that some Asians aren't comfortable kissing in public (might be relevant since you say they are FOBs).

You should structure the date so that it ends with both of you back in your place of residence. Put on some music, pour some drinks, then go for the makeout and escalate as far as she will let you (if she gives resistance at a certain step, back off for a bit, and try again later; be persistent). Yes, she won't necessarily fuck you on the first or the second date, but you must still try to get as far as you can, so you aim for the bang. If you assume she's a "good girl" and try to take it slow you're putting her on a pedestal and sabotaging yourself.

For more info see these:
/thread-8681.html
http://www.thumotic.com/the-guaranteed-second-date-ban/

Very true. But I must say that in order to up your chances for a girl to come home with you for sex, you may need to escalate physically enough. So, if you're both at the bar and theres no kino or sexual stimulation before you take her home, I don't think sex will happen when you get home. Its happened to me. But there was an occasion when I met a girl and we went to a bar. We didn't kiss. We ended up having sex that same night at my house. Maybe this was an exception to the rule?

One of the links you provided said not to kiss the girl before bringing her home. I don't think that would be wise based on what I mentioned above. Trust me, I've taken them home without any kino or kissing at the lounge before taking them home. At my house, we watched TV and talked. I did makeout with them. But I didnt get sex. After that, they stopped going out with me.

(07-21-2014 11:52 AM)MdWanderer Wrote:  ^^^^The truth. Escalating for sex on the first and second date has paid dividends for me. I kept getting "you're a nice guy but..." shtick until I fixed that error in my game.

I would agree with that because I remember 2 years ago I would take girls to lounges on day 2s and would let my fingers do most of the talking (if you know what I mean). I was more sexual then. Maybe I must be more aggressive again like before. If there are some sexual tactics out there that you know of, maybe I can give them a shot.

I will tell you this though.. I promise to escalate more sexually next time on day 2s and 3s. But, like I said before in my first response on this post, I do fail to give of a sexual vibe, at least enough to where I get her stimulated. I need to give off a sexual vibe. If there's any material out there that you guys think will help me with this, please post it! Thanks.

Post: #17

There is material literally all over this forum buddy.

If I were you, seriously, I'd try and find a whole day to just sit, read and absorb.

Post: #18

(07-21-2014 05:47 PM)tboz Wrote:  Very true. But I must say that in order to up your chances for a girl to come home with you for sex, you may need to escalate physically enough. So, if you're both at the bar and theres no kino or sexual stimulation before you take her home, I don't think sex will happen when you get home. Its happened to me. But there was an occasion when I met a girl and we went to a bar. We didn't kiss. We ended up having sex that same night at my house. Maybe this was an exception to the rule?

One of the links you provided said not to kiss the girl before bringing her home. I don't think that would be wise based on what I mentioned above. Trust me, I've taken them home without any kino or kissing at the lounge before taking them home. At my house, we watched TV and talked. I did makeout with them. But I didnt get sex. After that, they stopped going out with me.

Perhaps you misunderstand. You have to kino a lot throughout all your dates. The reason why you don't kiss her before bringing her home is so that she can rationalize that she is going home with you "only for a makeout," whereas if you had already made out with her, she would infer that she is going home with you for sex.

(07-21-2014 05:47 PM)tboz Wrote:  I promise to escalate more sexually next time on day 2s and 3s.

You need to escalate hard from day 1 so she knows what's up. If you don't bust moves from the start you're going to bore her or end up friendzoned.
Remember:

Sixteen Commandments of Poon Wrote:XIII. Err on the side of too much boldness, rather than too little

Push as far as you can sexually on every date and you will get much further.

If you want details on escalating you can try:
http://www.vindicarlo.com/DiCarlo%20Esca...lo.com.pdf

Post: #19

As your game progresses., you will understand why it is so important to always escalate and try to get laid with her within 1-3 dates. No matter what you think, what other people say, etc., you must always escalate.

If she rejects you when you escalated, it may be because a multitude of factors of which you can't be sure. Maybe she didn't liked you, you fucked up, she is a prude and you scared her, she is a slut but didn't liked you, logistics weren't optimal, etc. Never waste time with a woman you will not be able to fuck. Learn, move on and approach other women.

Post: #20

(07-22-2014 05:03 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  There is material literally all over this forum buddy.

If I were you, seriously, I'd try and find a whole day to just sit, read and absorb.

Thank you for your suggestion. I will start doing that today, as a matter of fact.

(07-22-2014 11:35 AM)Donkey_Riding Wrote:  

(07-21-2014 05:47 PM)tboz Wrote:  Very true. But I must say that in order to up your chances for a girl to come home with you for sex, you may need to escalate physically enough. So, if you're both at the bar and theres no kino or sexual stimulation before you take her home, I don't think sex will happen when you get home. Its happened to me. But there was an occasion when I met a girl and we went to a bar. We didn't kiss. We ended up having sex that same night at my house. Maybe this was an exception to the rule?

One of the links you provided said not to kiss the girl before bringing her home. I don't think that would be wise based on what I mentioned above. Trust me, I've taken them home without any kino or kissing at the lounge before taking them home. At my house, we watched TV and talked. I did makeout with them. But I didnt get sex. After that, they stopped going out with me.

Perhaps you misunderstand. You have to kino a lot throughout all your dates. The reason why you don't kiss her before bringing her home is so that she can rationalize that she is going home with you "only for a makeout," whereas if you had already made out with her, she would infer that she is going home with you for sex.

(07-21-2014 05:47 PM)tboz Wrote:  I promise to escalate more sexually next time on day 2s and 3s.

You need to escalate hard from day 1 so she knows what's up. If you don't bust moves from the start you're going to bore her or end up friendzoned.
Remember:

Sixteen Commandments of Poon Wrote:XIII. Err on the side of too much boldness, rather than too little

Push as far as you can sexually on every date and you will get much further.

If you want details on escalating you can try:
http://www.vindicarlo.com/DiCarlo%20Esca...lo.com.pdf

Hey, thank you for the heads up. I will definitely stop playing it "safe" and be more physical and kino from day 1. I hate it when I come home and get numbers that I know weren't solid enough just because I didn't apply myself enough to be more physical. From now on, I won't give a shit how fine a girl is or how fine she thinks she is. I'm going to be physical with the finest girls I see out there.

Thanks for the link. I'll be reading up and going out there and apply myself. I'll let you know of my progress.

(07-22-2014 01:11 PM)Ternarydemonite Wrote:  As your game progresses., you will understand why it is so important to always escalate and try to get laid with her within 1-3 dates. No matter what you think, what other people say, etc., you must always escalate.

If she rejects you when you escalated, it may be because a multitude of factors of which you can't be sure. Maybe she didn't liked you, you fucked up, she is a prude and you scared her, she is a slut but didn't liked you, logistics weren't optimal, etc. Never waste time with a woman you will not be able to fuck. Learn, move on and approach other women.

I could't agree with you more. I'm really tired of this shit where I get rejected just because I didn't escalate or escalate enough. I promise myself that I'm a changed man now. I highly appreciate your last piece of advice to never waste time with a female that won't give it up.

Thanks for everything guys! I feel reborn.

Post: #21

(07-18-2014 10:16 PM)tboz Wrote:  For some fucking goddamn reason that's a big mystery, these girls stopped seeing me. One girl said it wouldn't be a good idea to see me again. Another girl who was very interested in me thanked me and said she doesn't want to see me. All of them flaked after going out with me.

I swear to god I didn't do ANYTHING wrong. I use the same game I used last year with good success. I'm clean, got good breath, shaved, confident, look like an actor, etc.

You sound pretty angry and entitled in your post. My guess is that this is seeping out in your vibe, and the girls are picking up on this. Girls are really good at reading very subtle cues about your inner state.

Post: #22

echoing what everyone is saying that you need to escalate faster. just my opinion, but what it sounds like is you're running very solid game in the beginning to get the girls attracted and out with you, but then when you don't escalate toward sex on your day twos they are left confused because the confident man they were attracted to should have done that.

also, while being physical early is great, make sure you're not doing it in an over the top way as a beginner. always frame each step of kino as a compliance test like first you hold out your hand, if she takes it, move to step two which is putting your arm around her, if she doesn't move away, proceed.