Post: #1

I have some questions about tae kwon do and wanted to see if anyone hear might have some answers.

I started about almost three years ago going twice a week or so. I am up to Senior Green belt. I really started to enjoy it and really liked my teacher.

A few months ago, my teacher suddenly decided to leave town and shut down everything. He sold us out to another school, and I started to go there.

It seems that the new school basically makes up its own curriculum. The forms are totally different. It's almost like I"m starting over again. They have honored my belt level, but it still seems like starting over again.

Upon investigation, I have found that there are two "schools." There are the International Tae Kwon Do Federation and the World Tae Kwon Do Federation.

My old school had forms like Dan-Gun, Do-San, and Won-Hyo. These are ITF forms. My new school just calls them the "green belt" form, the "yellow belt" form, etc.

I don't want to continue with this school. I want to go to a school which uses the same forms as the ones I learned from my original coach. Does anyone have any suggestions on this?

Post: #2

Can't help you, but given the title will ask a longstanding question of my own:

Is tae kwon useful for real life street fighting?

My friend is an expert, and he admitted to me that once an opponent closes to a certain range, all you can do is knee to the balls or deadleg.

Post: #3

Your best bet are these forums http://www.bullshido.net/forums/

Post: #4

(07-22-2014 03:32 AM)Rutting Elephant Wrote:  Is tae kwon useful for real life street fighting?

No. I mean, it's better than nothing, being a complete couch potato. At the very least you will be better conditioned, and if you spar a lot you can pick up a sense for timing and angling.
But to actually use TKD kicks in a 'street fight'? No...

Post: #5

I have done tae kwon do for three years when I was in my late teens and looking back on it - I can say that tae kwon do is the blue pill of martial arts.

It looks cool to newbs because high kicks are glorified by Hollywood movies, but for anyone who knows anything about fighting it is clear that high kicks are rarely useful and always risky. I blame Hollywood for planting the idea that high kicks are good for fighting similar how I blame Holywood for planting an idea that being a nice guy underdog is the right way to get that girl despite "asshole jocks".

Forget whatever history taekwondo claims to have it's roots in. Modern taekwondo exists for only two reasons:

1)To be a politically correct (read: hardly applicable in real life) Olympic sport and provide an excuse for Olimpic comitee to say that it has enough combat sports already, therefore things like wrestling can be dropped out. This is WTF taekwondo.
2)To provide supply for the market demand of McDojo's for teenagers who want to learn how to high kick and look cool, like in movies. This is ITF taekwondo.

Taekwondo can be minimally useful for a noob in teaching things like basic stances which are more or less a common denominator in all martial arts and ITF also may teach some self defence holds, but generally 90% of time is wasted on drilling kicks (which are worth 5%) and katas (which are worth 0%)

Taekwonddo is an amazing cardio trough, I was super thin on a very bad diet when I did Taekwon do. But it is better to find a form of cardio that comes with more useful skills. I would pick up even skiing over Takewondo.

Post: #6

(07-22-2014 03:32 AM)Rutting Elephant Wrote:  Can't help you, but given the title will ask a longstanding question of my own:

Is tae kwon useful for real life street fighting?

My friend is an expert, and he admitted to me that once an opponent closes to a certain range, all you can do is knee to the balls or deadleg.

It's useful because it keeps you in shape, but it may very well be the least usable martial art (no offense OP) you can do.

If you want something that will work in a street fight, krav maga probably is the quickest way to become effective if you to manage to find a place with a good teacher and enough sparring, but good boxing or muay thai gyms are easier to find.

Post: #7

Taekwondo is useless?

It seems to have served Chuck Liddell pretty well.

I took taekwondo for a while growing up and I can attest that the things I learned served me in some fights before. Some of the kicks are showy and a bit dangerous if you don't land it and the guy gets a hold of your foot and pulls your leg out from under you (a move you learn to do well in taekwondo, by the way, and I've used it), but land a good side kick in someone's stomach and I can assure you they're not getting back up very fast. A head kick can be brutal and put someone out for sure, but much harder to land - midsection-level more doable for an intermediate in a real fight.

The sparring experience, punching and kicking techniques, blocking, evading, foot work, and overall conditioning can be useful too.

You can most certainly do better as far as a martial art that takes you from newbie to having some formidable skills, but I wouldn't say it's useless.

I also find the forms to be very good as a form of meditation and building self-discipline. The overall culture of taekowndo did wonders for me as young punk too, really mellowing me out and teaching me respect. I had to stop going after a while because my mom couldn't afford the lessons, but if she'd have had any sense in her, she'd have cut back on the vodka at the bars and kept me enrolled. I wouldn't have been so out of control if I'd have kept with it.

Maybe the art has been watered down but don't forget that it was developed as a military fighting style. If it really had no use in the field, it would have disappeared ages ago. But yeah, if you really want something you can take to the streets, go with the staples - muay thai, boxing, and bjj (or wrestling).

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #8

I don't think it's useless at all, but you wouldn't want to be a 'pure' tkd fighter.

I grew up with muay thai and progressed to MMA, and since that was what I was training against regularly, I got used to fighting kickboxers and MMA. So when a guy who had previously earned a black belt in TKD came and worked his way up in in MMA, he brought with him a whole lot of moves that I was unprepared for. It's one thing getting a shock in sparring, and then working out a way to defend against and counter the unusual style, but if you're unprepared for a lightning fast kick to the head on the street, you don't get a second chance - it's lights out.

Post: #9

Tae Kwon Do learned in South Korea...good.

Tae Kwon Do learned in America...bad.

Post: #10

^ Perhaps you're right. But I'm sure there are plenty of Korean immigrants in the U.S. who teach it the proper way, so it probably depends on the school.

Then again, there are only so many Korean immigrants in the U.S. and any with some knowledge will probably want to teach, whereas in Korea you'll be sure to get the cream of the crop. So there's that.

One thing I would imagine more likely to find in the U.S. is a school that combines taekwondo with other fighting styles, since MMA is so big there.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #11

(07-22-2014 07:03 AM)Vroom Wrote:  I don't think it's useless at all, but you wouldn't want to be a 'pure' tkd fighter.

TKD can do well as an accessory to other striking martial arts - you either train in other art the normal 2-3 times a week and then take TKD kick lessons once a month or you train TKD for a year or so until your kicks are decent and then start learning something else.

Post: #12

It was bound to happen that this thread would have this.

Everything I need to know about TKD

Post: #13

(07-22-2014 06:45 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  Taekwondo is useless?

It seems to have served Chuck Liddell pretty well.

At least the few top google responses reveal no TKD background for him.

Post: #14

^ I didn't Google it, but that's where Chuck got his start. That's where his deadly kicks come from.

To be sure, I'm not recommending taekwondo or suggesting it's a good choice if you want to go up against MMA guys. I just think calling it completely useless is a bit of a stretch.

EDIT: I may very well be confused on Chuck. Looks like he did Kenpo and kickboxing. If so, I stand corrected - I always thought he was a taekwondo guy. I remembered some announcers were spouting about it in a few UFC matches when he was big, and I was pretty confident on that, but my bad. Anyone have info on this?

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #15

I think there's a misunderstanding here. TKD is not "useless". There are many useful things that you can learn from any martial art. And as the saying goes, it's not the system/art, it's the man.

The original question was if it's "useful for real life street fighting", in other words, useful when the stakes are high and you can get seriously hurt or killed. And in that context, I stand by my answer.

In that context, you don't need to "fight", you need to disable and/or kill as fast as you can. And all due respect to Chuck Liddell and his kicks, TKD cannot teach you to do that. The mechanics just aren't there.

Post: #16

Peyton Quinn had some interesting things to say about the development of tkd which make sense.

Real Fighting: Adrenaline Stress Conditioning Through Scenario-Based Training Paperback - by Peyton Quinn

'baller

Post: #17

People talk shit about TKD because it is watered down when it comes to America. There is a contradiction between what traditional martial arts teach, and the American ideals of capitalism combined with instant gratification. If you want real training, you need to get a FOB Korean. They will kick the shit out of you, then laugh when you get hurt.

I don't understand why anyone here would think that all someone who does TKD knows how to do is throw flashy kicks. While it is a big part of training, it's not all of it. At my former school, we used to call those kicks candy. It's what attracts people to the art, but too much candy makes people ill.

Here's a photo of Muhammad Ali training with his master, Jhoon Rhee (father of American TKD). Bruce Lee learned his high kicks from Jhoon Rhee as well.



Mr. Rhee taught me Tae Kwon Do Accu-Punch; it is so fast, you can hardly see it.”
- Muhammad Ali

There's no such thing as a bad martial art, just bad teachers.

Source: Trained and taught TKD for close to a decade.

Post: #18

So, I've been living an an MA desert for a few years. I'm a long-experienced grappler and couldn't bring myself to take tae kwon do, even though the instructor was skilled and friendly. In reality, I was holding myself back. I now take the cardio kickboxing class (essentially tkd without the forms), and I'm getting world class physical training and with proper diet, am in great shape.

Admittedly, I'm not improving my judo or aikido, but I have lots of experience in those arts already.

'baller

Post: #19

Tae Kwon do emphasis high kicks, whereas Karate is about 50 percent kicks and 50 percent hand strikes, which in my opinion makes it more practical for street fighting. I have a black belt in Karate, but one of my first instructors was a Tae Kwon Do black belt was learned it while he was in the army stationed in Korea. He was an effective fighter. The problem is that every martial art gets watered down and turned into girl fighting once it gets to America.

Post: #20

I think TKD (in its American forms) is great for kids. You want to teach them some fundamentals but not really give them the tools to kill each other very easily.

I got my (junior) blackbelt when I was 10. Then for middle school and most of high school I did wrestling. Then I did Kung Fu, which is my specialty. I occasionally train MMA, as I'll admit if I want some good fighting/sparring partners I'm more likely to find them in a serious MMA or Muay Thai place than the typical Kung Fu school. Plus, there I can just show up and fight. No one is going to try to make me a "white belt" again.

I did an Open Martial arts tournament a few years back. It was most TKD guys, some Karate, and just myself and one other school representing Kung Fu. I got last at the Olympic Sparring (I was totally unprepared, didn't know what to expect) and then I annihilated everyone in the less restricted Points Sparring, and took 1st in that event in the most advanced category. The TKD guys were helpless at close range, and couldn't use their hands at all. I just needed to duck under/slip/sidestep their high kick, then instantly be on them like flies on shit and pound the crap out of them.

The Olympic sparring was like playing tiddly-winks, and resembles actual combat about as much as a game of grab-ass.

In all, TKD is good for kids and to learn some fundamentals and fitness. Don't get too attached to one art just because of the friends you made or loyalty to one particular instructor. You, and only you, are responsible for your martial ability.

Post: #21

(07-22-2014 03:32 AM)Rutting Elephant Wrote:  Can't help you, but given the title will ask a longstanding question of my own:

Is tae kwon useful for real life street fighting?

My friend is an expert, and he admitted to me that once an opponent closes to a certain range, all you can do is knee to the balls or deadleg.

It all depends on the teacher and the student.

I have a close friend who has a TKD base and he is a monster, and then I know other guys who have bases in much more "useful" bases who aren't even worth an after thought once you spare them.

Post: #22

Dunno about American TKD but in my area, TKD is catergorized as an offensive Martial arts; You use it in self defence situations, you will get sued for "over use of force for self defense"
Cant get more blue pill than Taiwan law.
I used it for self defence a week after I got my yellow belt in the University TKD club (Its free! no DOJO fees or whatever.)
... TLDR the moron who pickled the fight didnt even know whats TKD so I got off easy...

Post: #23

I have practiced TKD since I was 7 years old and am a Third Dan Black belt. I trained in many countries, and learned from a Korean Grand Master as well as a bunch of hardcore Iranian dudes. Apparently after Korea, Iran is the TKD hotbed.

If you're good enough at TKD, and learned from a legit place that teaches real sparring as opposed to just BS you can catch much bigger and stronger guys off guard and knock them out with a good kick to the face. You have to be truly fast, flexible, and technically sound though.

It is highly advisable to also learn a style on the side that helps you with punching and grappling in case your surprise blitz assault goes awry and you end up on the ground.

I never got the hate for TKD. People say it is hyped because Hollywood fights are TKD, but it isn't hype if you can actually fight like those guys in real life [alpha smirk]. If you are mediocre at any sport, it is not worth it. Don't go to a kids belt factory. If you see a woman instructor or a woman leading the class, run.

With regards to different forms at different schools, there are the official WTF Kukkiwon "Poomse" forms that all TKD people should know, and then each TKD "family/school" will have their own modified techniques or forms in addition to that. Perhaps you changed "schools". I personally come from the Jidokwan school of TKD mainly, though I have trained in other schools.

There is also the North Korean ITF which is apparently more intense and involves punching. It will be tough to find an ITF school though.

Post: #24

I love TKD as a martial art; the kicking techniques have been copied and utilised in pretty much every modern martial art. They are beautiful to watch and show immense dedication and skill on behalf of the practitioner.

My issue with it is as a self defence system, which it is often described and sold as.

Out in the real world there are just too many limitations to anything based around kicking.

A couple of examples:

I live in England. It's always raining. Try throwing a kick when the ground is always wet.

I don't wear trousers suitable for kicking on a day to day basis. Try kicking to the head in work shoes or jeans or a suit!

Kicking accurately and powerfully to the head requires a degree of accuracy under pressure that 99% of those casually training any martial art won't have.

It's a shame that TKD hasn't evolved like Muay Thai to incorporate more boxing.

Post: #25

(07-24-2015 01:18 PM)Slim Shady Wrote:  It is highly advisable to also learn a style on the side that helps you with punching and grappling in case your surprise blitz assault goes awry and you end up on the ground.

Aint TKD only a part of a system ?
Hapkido is the other style include in korean teaching TKD for real situation





If you train both you got a complete self defense system like judo and jiu jutsu