Post: #1

Steve Horner is on a quest to eliminate one of the standbys of Vegas nightlife: charging less or no admission for women than for men.

Quote:That’s why Horner made sure to visit some bigger adversaries on his list: casino pool parties.

The 63-year-old showed up with a tape recorder and microphone to record information that’s common knowledge around town: While he had to pay $15 to $50 to get into pool parties, women got in free or at reduced rates.

Those efforts resulted in six complaints filed last month and this month against Hard Rock, Tropicana, MGM Grand, M Resort, Rio and Mirage — each seeking a minimum of $2,000 in damages plus attorney fees.

Horner said casino employees laughed when he asked whether he could get into the events free or at the reduced “women’s rate.” They seemed unconcerned, he said, when told they were being taped.

Until recently, casinos had reason to worry about such complaints. In 2008, the Nevada Equal Rights Commission determined that a promotion offering women free membership to Las Vegas Athletic Clubs while men paid membership dues was discriminatory. The commission — which has not ruled on the merits of any similar cases before or since — acknowledged that different pricing for men isn’t unusual, but it couldn’t allow the gym’s policy after it was presented as evidence.

Horner said he learned of the law change when a state attorney reviewing the complaints informed him they would soon be moot.

The commission will continue to accept and consider “sex-based pricing” complaints until Oct. 1, Nevada Equal Rights Commission Administrator Shelley Chinchilla said. After that date, the commission will dismiss them outright for lack of jurisdiction, she said. Chinchilla wouldn’t comment on Horner, as complaints are confidential by law unless they go to a hearing.

He does seem red pill:

Quote:Horner's mother raised Steve and his five brothers in Minneapolis in the '50s and '60s. She was the perfect matron, teaching her sons to be strong, responsible young men, he said. And she wasn't afraid to use a stiff hand to make her point.

"She spanked our ass if we misbehaved," Horner recalled.

But today's women are different.

"(Younger) women are arrogant, vindictive, drug-using, abortion-utilizing, angry bitches," he says. "The days of my mother … that style of parenting? That's gone. That responsibility, the in-the-trenches dedication you will need to succeed is gone."

It's hard to imagine Jesus calling a female prosecutor a dyke, as Horner once did. It's also hard to believe Martin Luther King Jr. would write a book about women titled "Can't Understand Normal Thinking," as Horner said he intends to do.

On the one hand, I am sympathetic - that we live in a feminist society, and we might as well live up to it by enforcing 'gender equality' and enforcing the law "even" when it favors men.

But this is just one little example of how 'men's rights' aka feminism, just makes it even harder to give people what they want. Men go to clubs, especially in Vegas, to meet women. By making it easier and cheaper for women to get in, you keep the supply of women higher, making the venue more attractive to men - and men are the source of the vast majority of the revenue, bottle service in particular. If too few women show up, the men stop showing up too, leading to an outcome no one is happy with, except a few feminists aka MRAs.

Here in LA, you have a similar system to Vegas, it's just not explicit so the club can't be sued for it - though it is technically illegal to charge different prices for men and women. It also makes it harder and pricier for men to get in in general, the opposite of Horner's intended effect. I hardly drink at bars, but I am content with paying to ensure a good sex ratio.

What's needed is not less freedom to discriminate, but more. More male-only cigar bars and schools. No more punishments for staffing your warehouse store with only men because women can't press a 40 lb box overhead. Instead, MRAs like Horner are fighting for more feminism, not less. And in case you think he is an outlier among MRAs, he isn't - http://ncfm.org/2013/01/activities/ncfm-...-westlake/

Sources:

http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/las-ve...s-feminism
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2011/aug...ntinue-af/

Post: #2

I get his point on some level, but this just isn't realistic nor is it helping anyone. Girls are reproductively more valuable, deal with it. This is why I always sympathize more with MGTOW than MRA. This guy is just an asshole.

Post: #3

I'm surprised they even let him into the pool parties.

I'm interested to see what he was wearing.

Post: #4

Man in 1920's:

I get women's voting rights advocates on some level, but it just isn't realistic, nor is it helping anyone. Guys are intellectually more rational and as only men die in combat defending the nation, only men shall be able to have full citizen privileges, deal with it. This is why I always sympathize more with women who just live their own lives in peace and happen to not want a man, than feminists, who actively seek to destroy the nation men worked so hard to build. Feminists are just assholes.

Post: #5

Quote:Horner's mother raised Steve and his five brothers in Minneapolis in the '50s and '60s. She was the perfect matron, teaching her sons to be strong, responsible young men, he said. And she wasn't afraid to use a stiff hand to make her point.

"She spanked our ass if we misbehaved," Horner recalled.

But today's women are different.

"(Younger) women are arrogant, vindictive, drug-using, abortion-utilizing, angry bitches," he says. "The days of my mother … that style of parenting? That's gone. That responsibility, the in-the-trenches dedication you will need to succeed is gone."

Nothing wrong with having a strong mother, and some of his views are somewhat red pill, but he doesn't mention a father.
There's something deep-seated that's out of balance/equilibrium. If you're gonna go on a crusade, there are much more worthy hills to die on.
But then again, it's Vegas. Everything is frivolous.

Post: #6

His doing this is useless in real terms. But it's symbolically important.

Because it puts a spotlight on one of the perks of being female in America.

There are a lot of these fringe benefits women get, but you never hear about them with all the whining about the alleged pay gap, #yesallwomen, etc.

So now when women start up with the online dramatics about how they have it soooo hard, this gives men a link to show the privileges they get.

Add this to your link favorites about boys falling behind in school, men dying earlier and on the job more, etc. and you can shut a feminist down with a handful of links and no words at all.

Post: #7

Hopefully his crusade isn't successful at a national level. If ratios nationally got messed up cause some dude doesn't like sexual economics...
I'd be pretty disappointed.

He isn't red pill in my eyes, red pill is seeing life as it is and capitalizing on it. Changing your behavior to succeed in the circumstances you have.
He's just a feminist of dudes... noticed how the world works, and decided the best route to deal was bitching and trying to force everyone else to change for his benefit instead of working on himself.

Don't like the club policy? Start/buy one and prove your method is better.

Post: #8

Now there are less of those old-school-MRAs around but that is one of the reasons they overshoot the target and open themselves up for ridicule.

It is not that they are wrong about the ills of feminism and male discrimination, but instead of focusing on matters which really are worthy they completely ignore the natural sexual market place. They deny Game, they fight for men's rights to wear female skirts and cry against any men hitting on girls, because that is "pussy-pedestalization" to them and you "empower" women more by trying to fuck them.

Post: #9

This person isn't an ally. His argument is that the sexes should be treated identically, presumably because we are the same, or are interchangeable. But we are different, and this means everything.

Post: #10

My sense is that mras, like feminists want to believe that men and women are equal and that the difference in genders doesn't really exist. Am I wrong?

Post: #11

I always thought one major part of MRAs were beta-dads who got the short end of the stick in the family court system. This guy just seems to lack the foresight with what he's doing.

I love the idea of ladies' night. It's unfortunate that California had to get rid of it, although I've seen a few bars around LA that haven't gotten the memo, which is fine by me. The idea that there is a night where girls drink for cheap/free, is the most amazing thing for men. Although, at least in my experience, the majority of dolled up attractive girls seem to prefer more expensive "in" bars/clubs, to the bars that have good deals. I'm sure that changes post-breakup.

Post: #12

(07-28-2014 09:32 AM)soup Wrote:  My sense is that mras, like feminists want to believe that men and women are equal and that the difference in genders doesn't really exist. Am I wrong?

It does seem like they want to try to force society to live up to the lie and treat men and women as equals. Either that or they're trolling the establishment, but I don't get the sense most are.

Post: #13

If you could christen one American city as red pill, it would be Vegas. When people are given freedom and sovereignty from government intrusion, they can't help but recognize red pill realities.

Case in point: a journalist who would be a hardcore blue pill type in any other context - but Vegas' discriminatory policies force him to confront and accept the iron law of nightlife, where men pay for access to attractive women. Even before I saw these articles, I noted that it's impossible to be a Vegas promoter and NOT be cognizant of red pill realities.

He also correctly acknowledges that Vegas style discrimination is far far more egalitarian in effect than its rivals - getting into a top notch club for $30 on a weeekend night as a man is NOTHING, compared to any other top American city. Also, Vegas has a stricter sexual division of labor, though nightlife everywhere generally does - male doormen and bouncers, female waitresses, etc.

You can tell by this dude's disdain for mild fattie bashing that he'd be straight up blue pill if he were say, working in LA or NY.

From Las Vegas Weekly:

"People are still weighing in on the July 16 Jezebel story involving “Zoe,” whose prospective Hakkasan promoter, Peter—who has since been suspended by the club—refused to comp her bachelorette party of 15 unless she surrendered every girl’s photo or Instagram account. (She didn’t, and went elsewhere.) You can imagine the comments that followed the story, and the broad brush with which they painted Vegas nightlife. Some needed perspective:

Many have been quick to compare the transgression to the infamous velvet-rope policies established by New York City’s Studio 54, where the doorman’s once-over usually meant granting the pretty and the rich entrance and dismissing everyone else. But that’s not how Las Vegas clubs work. Unlike certain hotspots in New York, Miami and LA, anyone can pay a venue’s cover and get in here (to say nothing of presale tickets). And women often get expedited, if not free entry via a separate line. Good luck accomplishing the same thing at AV Nightclub in Hollywood or LIV in Miami.

Those out-of-state spots take superficiality to new heights—as would Hakkasan (or any other club, for that matter) if it, in fact, has mandated a photo policy with female group comps, as Peter’s texts to Zoe suggest. But let’s drop the pretense that there isn’t an institutionalized—and highly profitable—caste system at major nightclubs. They are inextricably attached to sex and money, and as long as people go there and spend billions of the latter to find the former, clubs will show deference to gorgeous women and wealthy men, and continue to enable nightlife’s version of natural selection. Why aren’t there more blogs on the shenanigans happening at fraternities?"

http://www.lasvegasweekly.com/as-we-see-...-promoter/

Soup, you're technically wrong - MRAs don't actually claim that men and women are identical in reality. But MRAs do campaign for equal treatment of men and women. It's kind of ironic, because while MRAs are more honest, their philosophy makes less sense than the typical feminist approach - why treat non-identical identities, i.e. men and women, identically? MRAs often have a 'bite off your nose to spite your face' mentality - that because they're hurting from something, they want to make others feel their pain instead of actually resolving the situation.

Post: #14

The entire profit margin on nightclubs is based on beta males paying through the nose for cover and bottle service so they can pretend to be a big shot for the evening. If you take away the club sluts then there's no one drinking the beta male's $500 Monarch vodka poured into a Grey Goose bottle and eventually no more nightclub.

Post: #15

Hmmm.

Quote:"(Younger) women are arrogant, vindictive, drug-using, abortion-utilizing, angry bitches," he says. "The days of my mother … that style of parenting? That's gone. That responsibility, the in-the-trenches dedication you will need to succeed is gone."

It's hard to imagine Jesus calling a female prosecutor a dyke, as Horner once did. It's also hard to believe Martin Luther King Jr. would write a book about women titled "Can't Understand Normal Thinking," as Horner said he intends to do.

...

Horner claims his only mission has been equal rights, no matter how small the issue. He believes ladies' night conditions young women to expect favors throughout their lives.

"If you pay attention to the small things, the big things take care of themselves. I think this is the infrastructural element of excellence," he says. "I don't think women have any business being in the money handout business, period."

...

Horner's views changed after his divorce in 1984. He thought the family should stay together for the sake of the kids, but his wife wanted to leave.

"That was the liberation attitude. Go out and find yourself," he said.

...

Horner felt people paid little attention to the plight of single fathers, but clamored in­cessantly about brave single mothers and deadbeat dads.

This man is red pill as hell.

I'm shocked he doesn't have a regular column over at AVfM. I wonder if he even knows of the Manosphere.

Anyway, God Bless him, he's fighting the good fight, and has been willing to travel, get his hands dirty, and sacrifice a lot for his beliefs.

Post: #16

He is in the wrong place to start shouting about equal payment. I have never been to vegas nor do I intend to but the law over there is that pussy is lube which makes the cash flow.

Women there are out to chase the cash. Whilst high value men get in for free or reduced rates which brings the women, the average guy is still paying and the clubs need to do that. As do the parties.

Vegas plays on two things.

The whore mentality and a man's need to fuck top shelf pussy.

Post: #17

Vegas is nice because you have all the escorts walking around. Those betas won't be as annoying or try to ruin your set as much as they will in other cities.

Post: #18

Any way you slice it, the guy has a point.

Women pay less to get into the same spots. It's not an equal system.

Post: #19

Quote:This man is red pill as hell.

I'm shocked he doesn't have a regular column over at AVfM. I wonder if he even knows of the Manosphere.

A wise man would avoid any association with AVfM. Those guys have no perception of how play the politics and public relations game.