Post: #1

Got caught going... pretty fast in a 35 (52 I think) on the way home from the club. No DUI, I had 1-2 drinks.

I can pay it, that's not the issue. I have court in 2 months.

I'm really left with 2 options:

1. Fight it
2. Plead guilty and try to get it knocked down

Might be more options?

Anyone have any wisdom to share?

Post: #2

(12-13-2014 02:31 PM)jake1720 Wrote:  Got caught going... pretty fast in a 35 (52 I think) on the way home from the club. No DUI, I had 1-2 drinks.

I can pay it, that's not the issue. I have court in 2 months.

I'm really left with 2 options:

1. Fight it
2. Plead guilty and try to get it knocked down

Might be more options?

Anyone have any wisdom to share?

Did you get pulled over? I know that fighting photo radar is quite easy, but if you got pulled over, I'd have to say good luck.

Post: #3

I got pulled over. I wasn't going to fight it when I got stopped. I should have probably gotten worse than they gave me.

I was thinking pleading guilty and hoping they dropped the charges.

Post: #4

You do what everyone else does. Go to court, wait in line, talk to the prosecutor and he'll drop it down 1 degree and double the fine. This way the township gets your money instead of the insurance company. It's all one big scam.

Post: #5

I'm speaking from Canadian experience but here's my 2 cents

Fight it because:
1) It will delay the fine payment
2) If the cop doesn't show up you win
3) If the prosecutor chooses not to pursue your case it will be dropped
4) If it takes more than a year to bring you to court you can beat it by arguing your rights for a fair and speedy trial have been violated

If 2, 3 and 4 don't happen then you can choose to fight the evidence. If you choose to fight it:
1) Ask for disclosure. It might never come or they might give you insufficient disclosure which you can then use as an argument for violating your right to a fair and speedy trial.
2) Read disclosure and build a legal argument based on precedent (other similar cases). How does the cop know you were speeding? Radar?
3) Wait for trial and hope that either the prosecutor considers your case not worth his/her time because of the minor severity of the charges or by observing your veracity to fight the charges

FYI pleading guilty for a reduced charge is still pleading guilty and points do not matter to insurance companies only convictions. Your insurance will 100% go up if convicted regardless of lesser points because it is a moving violation. Points determine whether or not you keep your driver's license.

An example from a personal experience of mine. Had a 40km over charge, chose to fight it, on the day of court the entire court room had their charges stayed (put aside/benched) because the judge decided not to show up. It won't always happen this way but it can be that easy.

Post: #6

If it's not to late try and ask for a "Trial by Written Declaration". It's where both you and the officer submit written statements along with supporting evidence instead of appearing in person before a judge. A lot of cops hate this because 1) it's more paperwork, and 2) they don't get to go in to court which means they don't get overtime. Often they won't follow through with it and the court will dismiss it. That is unless you got nailed by a motor cop, then expect them to go through great lengths to win. If it was a patrol cop, then there's a chance. Look into it and see what your possibilities are. Good luck.

Post: #7

You can't win. You can only delay it. Eventually you'll have to go to court for it. Until then it's sitting there dwelling in your head.
You're not a lawyer and you will get intimidated trying to defend yourself in court. If you hire a lawyer he'll just have it dropped down 1 level
like you could have done in the first place plus now you have $1500 in lawyer fees. It's all a scam and the cops, courts, judges, insurance companies
and your lawyer are all in on it and they all get a cut of the action.

Do yourself a favor. Go to court and they'll drop it down from 4 to 2 points or from 2 to no points. Pay the fine and forget about it and go about
your life.

Post: #8

Parlay is right. Plead not guilty on the ticket, send it in, show up to court and schmooze the Prosecutor. He'll reduce it. If the cop doesn't show up you can ask for a dismissal, but they might just postpone it.

Like Parlay said, it's a big business designed to take as much money from you as possible to fund it's own existence. You will pay something, your charm and humbleness can help determine how much.

Post: #9

It's jurisdictional dependent, even within the same state. I know some towns/prosecutors who cut favorable deals and some who will still give you a 3 point violation, even with an attorney. If you have a family attorney, ask him how much it will be to handle it and go from there.

Post: #10

I'll pull the I'm an engineering student being dumb card and just be really nice at the court. Get it dropped to something less. Pay them the money.

Thanks guys. Lesson learned. Don't drive too fast.

Post: #11

Perhaps this is a good place to drop the "avoid a ticket" datasheet, although most of you probably already know this stuff anyway. A Federal police officer friend once explained to me that your demeanor when you get pulled over can go a long way to whether the police officer decides to give you a ticket or not. This is what he said to do:

1. When the police lights come on behind you, pull over quickly but in a place where the police officer will feel safe getting out of his car, i.e. in a vehicle turnout or gas station with a big parking lot.

2. As soon as you stop, reach up and turn on the interior light if it is in any way dark outside

3. Then, immediately put your hands on top of the steering wheel and sit there without fidgeting around. Don't open your window or start groping around for your wallet or registration papers.

4. When the police comes to your window, wait for him to tell you what to do. If he says to open the window, crank it down and then put your hands back on the top of the wheel. If he asks you to get out and go sit in the front seat of the patrol car with him, quietly do it. Don't try to start a conversation. Just answer his questions quickly and succinctly.

5. It helps if you already have your registration paperwork set up in a folder or booklet that looks neat and presentable and makes it easy for the police to see your information when you hand it to him.

6. If you are a military reservist, hand him your military ID along with your drivers license (I've heard that this sometimes backfires, but it worked for me on at least two occasions)

7. If he asks you how fast you were going, say "I'm not sure, I was just trying to follow traffic." If he asks you if you know what you did wrong, say "I'm not sure." Don't elaborate.

That's it. After telling me that, I was pulled over three times. I was not cited on any of those occasions. One time I was even driving an unregistered car without a license plate on the freeway in California (long story). He let me go.

Post: #12

If you have the time it is always worth it to go to court. The more people scheduled for that day means it could take several hours for the judge to get through all of the cases and the officer is less likely to want to sit there so he doesn't show. Or the officer may have family affairs, vacation, or be coming off a night shift and not feel like showing up. If he doesn't show then your ticket is likely to get dismissed.

If he does show then you can make a case that you have a clean driving record and ask for deferment or a reduced ticket and less points on your license.

The only problem is you have to sit in court with a room full of degenerates for an hour or two and listen to them talk nonsense and make excuses to the judge.

Make sure to suit up and sit next to the most attractive girl in the room. Report back with a data sheet on Courtroom Game.

Post: #13

I've done this before successfully. Write a letter to delay the court date as many times as possible until they say they can't delay it anymore. Use any excuse that sounds good.

Show up a year + later and there is a higher likelihood that the cop may not be there.

Case dismissed.

Post: #14

(12-14-2014 08:40 AM)Cobra Wrote:  I've done this before successfully. Write a letter to delay the court date as many times as possible until they say they can't delay it anymore. Use any excuse that sounds good.

Show up a year + later and there is a higher likelihood that the cop may not be there.

Case dismissed.

Sure you can play the waiting game and drag it out and possibly* win. But is it worth it being on your head for that amount of time

The problem is that tactic becomes a lifestyle for some people. Then you'll have 10 tickets pending in multiple towns and you spend all your time and energy ducking the law. Then it carries over into bills, utilities, rent. They know all the little loopholes to avoid paying and delay eviction. Then move to a new place. I know plenty of people like that.

Post: #15

" I'm an engineering student being dumb "

Not sure how this is supposed to work but I'm sure it wont. Why? Students get ticketed all the time, not sure how engineering comes into play.

Stick to the broke student approach.

Post: #16

I don't know what's the bullshit with "If the cop doesn't show up, you win". This is random crap that has probably been repeated to people over and over and led some people to believe it.
If the cop doesn't show up (which happens in over 50% of cases), he will be represented by the prosecutor, whose goal is to make you guilty. You negociate with the prosecutor, because he's the one "sueing" you, so only him (or a judge) can lower the charges.

So plead non guilty. No need to postpone the trial, you will just pay more fees. Show up in court, ask to speak to the prosecutor, and try to negotiate something. That's how it works. I pleaded over 25 tickets and lost my licence several times so I know what I'm talking about.

Post: #17

I would plead Not Guilty and show up for court. Most Courts are so under staffed and have a back log of cases that they will most likely offer you a plea deal rather than going to trial. Most courts will offer a reduced speed or a lesser moving violation, but you should request a reduction to a violation with NO points/or a NON moving violation(depending on your location).

The sweeter the deal you get, the higher the fines may be. Don't be bummed about the higher fine, because you don't want a violation on your driving record that's going to raise your insurance rate. You will end up paying more money over time in Insurance premiums, than what the fine cost you. Courts can care less about your driving record, they just want your $$$.

As Alex mentioned, delaying/postponing the court date will not necessarily get your ticket dismissed. It will only put off the inevitable. If you keep postponing your court date for no legitimate(school/health/encarceration) reason, Prosecutors will be more likely to shove it up your ass when you finally do show up for court.

Post: #18

I'll show up and plead not guilty.

Thanks

Post: #19

(12-15-2014 10:23 AM)alex3948 Wrote:  I don't know what's the bullshit with "If the cop doesn't show up, you win". This is random crap that has probably been repeated to people over and over and led some people to believe it.

Maybe its not how it is in your country but in mine it is 100% the case. You are defending yourself against the evidence and the evidence is the cops testimony so if he/she isn't there, there is nothing the prosecutor can present.
What country are you in?

Btw I have gotten off all my charges with these techniques and without paying for a court representative. If more people actually fought their charges the courts would be forced to pursue only the very serious cases. I'm also not bothered by the fact that I have a ticket dragging on. Its not like its only my mind 24/7 for months. What's the worst case scenario? You pay the ticket that you already have?

Post: #20

In the US if the cop doesn't show up they'll dismiss. About 5 years ago a cop gave me a completely bogus ticket (80 in a 65, I knew it was an area with speed traps so I was doing 63 - and had the GPS log data to prove it). I went to court to contest, cop didn't show up, judge dismissed the ticket. Still had to pay a $50 court fee which I thought was BS but no hit on my insurance or record.

Post: #21

I never believed the "dismiss if the cop doesn't show" either until I went to court a few weeks ago. Two cops showed up and both of the drivers they ticketed had to pay something. About 20 of us were there and our officers were not, all of us had them dismissed. It was almost comical. And very eye opening, speeding tickets are nothing but a cash machine for the city and lawyers. I'm sure results may vary depending on the jurisdiction but it is definitely worth it to show up for court and hope your officer does not.

Post: #22

(12-15-2014 05:46 PM)Zauber Wrote:  What country are you in?

Quebec. And the prosecutor plays the role of the police officer whose goal is to bring money into the city's chests.

I agree with you on the fact that if everybody fought their tickets, or at least just pleaded non guilty, the courts would be overwhelmed and force to dismiss all minor offences in order to pursue only the major ones. It would make the systme collapse.

But the average Joe thinks, "too complicated, I will pay", hence the system is running well and generates cash.

Post: #23

Well. Found out I can pay 165 total and not have it go on my record. Not to bad.

Lesson learned, don't speed.

Post: #24

(12-13-2014 04:24 PM)Spectrumwalker Wrote:  If it's not to late try and ask for a "Trial by Written Declaration". It's where both you and the officer submit written statements along with supporting evidence instead of appearing in person before a judge. A lot of cops hate this because 1) it's more paperwork, and 2) they don't get to go in to court which means they don't get overtime. Often they won't follow through with it and the court will dismiss it. That is unless you got nailed by a motor cop, then expect them to go through great lengths to win. If it was a patrol cop, then there's a chance. Look into it and see what your possibilities are. Good luck.

For anybody else who finds themselves in this situation, this is the best strategy. Some states will even let you appear in person for a new trial if you lose a trial by written declaration.

I beat a speeding ticket. Here's how you do it:

1. RTFS. Lawyerspeak for "Read The Fucking Statute." You're being charged with a crime - generally an infraction. The state has to prove you committed that crime. The elements of the crime, or what they have to prove, are in the statute. The statute should be identified on the ticket.

2. Figure out if any of the elements are inapplicable to your situation. For instance, if the statute identified covers speeding in a school zone and you weren't in a school zone, or if it covers speeding on a one-lane undivided highway and you were on the interstate, your situation doesn't meet an element. If so, you win.

3. If your situation meets all the elements, you have to attack the evidence proving those elements. Find out how the cop determined your speed. Find out if the speed limit was correctly posted. Find out if the radar gun the cop used was correctly calibrated, or if he paced you correctly.

4. Write your argument attacking the elements or evidence and send it to the court.

5. If you show up in person instead, you get to cross-examine the officer. He has to go first and prove each element by competent evidence. If what he says doesn't match what's in the ticket, point that out to the judge. If he doesn't show up at all, he can't prove you did anything and the ticket gets dismissed.

6. If all else fails, cop a deal with the prosecutor.

Post: #25

(01-08-2015 12:26 PM)lurker Wrote:  3. If your situation meets all the elements, you have to attack the evidence proving those elements. Find out how the cop determined your speed. Find out if the speed limit was correctly posted. Find out if the radar gun the cop used was correctly calibrated, or if he paced you correctly.

How do you find out if the radar gun was correctly calibrated that day or if he paced you correctly? And, how much time and effort does it take to get this information from the police?