Post: #1

I've searched the forum and come up empty so far, or I've just been searching using the wrong keywords but here's my question. I've met a few women lately who tell me up front that they never have sex with a man unless they are in a committed relationship. I normally take this as a shit test and game on but I had one recently who even maintained this as LMR while on my bed with her panties off. In spite of my best efforts at defusing the LMR she held strong to demanding I "sign on the dotted line" so to speak or no pussy for me. I didn't take the bait and surprise surprise, I never saw her again.

I'm meeting a different woman tonight who has already told me the same thing. Is there a way to get around this obstacle or do I simply next all women who make this declaration?

Post: #2

Some women will foolishly throw out these ultimatums thinking that since most of us think with the little head, she will get the big head to comply

Being that you were able to get that far with the 1st tells me there was a shit load of last minute hamstering going on

Usually they arrive at this idea after a few hit and run encounters or after their latest Romeo denied them their dream

Most guys do one of two things: play along until she gives up the trim or next them

There is a way to break through (without alcohol) but it may require you to build more comfort (read: time intensive)

Post: #3

I had a similar experience just a few months ago - a girl who flatly stated out before coming over that we're not having sex unless we're going exclusive. I had two LMR sessions with her on two following occasions with the last one resulting in action and it went like this:

First date at my place, I was agressive and wouldn't take no for an answer, tried all my best to plow through LMR but anything wasn't happening. No alcohol was involved. I repeat, no drinking was going on.

In the mean time, I thought about what was wrong and had my heureka moment - alcohol!

Second date, started out by drinking wine, I intentionally gave her more and started light escalation. Pulled back way before she could object to anything, poured her more wine. As her glass got emptier, I went more aggressive each time. Escalation, pulling back, escalation, pulling back... So long, until she's begging you for some action herself.

If she says something along the lines of ''we won't have sex'' then you know sex is on the table if you can convert it. Oh and alcohol helps!

Post: #4

"OK".

Post: #5

(01-07-2015 02:36 PM)OregonToSoCal Wrote:  I've searched the forum and come up empty so far, or I've just been searching using the wrong keywords but here's my question. I've met a few women lately who tell me up front that they never have sex with a man unless they are in a committed relationship. I normally take this as a shit test and game on but I had one recently who even maintained this as LMR while on my bed with her panties off. In spite of my best efforts at defusing the LMR she held strong to demanding I "sign on the dotted line" so to speak or no pussy for me. I didn't take the bait and surprise surprise, I never saw her again.

I'm meeting a different woman tonight who has already told me the same thing. Is there a way to get around this obstacle or do I simply next all women who make this declaration?

If she had her panties off, you didn't navigate her LMR well enough.

"I don't know about that until I see what sex with a girl is like"

Then you could've whipped it out and started stroking it or rubbing it against her while touching her and kissing her. If she pulled some more of that you should've frozen her out or just driven her home, act like she fucked up.

*shrug* There's no 100% certain way, but if the panties are off and you didn't fuck it's likely you made a mistep. Panties off are usually the absolute last barrier a woman has before going for it.

Post: #6

Lie
WIA

Post: #7

Thanks all, the first one with the panties off I know I pushed too hard with and didn't pull back enough. That one was on me. However I've heard the ultimatum from other women I've dated and never quite had the right response.

@WIA do you mean lie as in agreeing to be exclusive?

Post: #8

Any woman that says this likely has been pumped and dumped before by a guy she really liked, and is now spiteful about it. She thinks that sex is the only thing that she has to offer, so she uses it as a bargaining chip to drag a quality guy into an LTR. She'll suck your dick, she'll let you finger her, but the second you try to put the condom on for fucking, you get the LMR. It's likely she doesn't have a lot of self esteem and is overly concerned with her "number." Maybe she's only had sex with 5 guys, but she has sucked a hell of a lot more dicks.

Ironically though, the quality guys don't stick around after date 2 or 3 without any sex. They will want to test drive the car before buying it. Any enlightened male realizes that an LTR is a complete waste of their important time if there is no good sex. Honestly, there's nothing that makes me lose interest faster in a woman than LMR. Sure, you can game her into having sex with you, and that's probably what you should do right in the moment. But I despise being a woman's show dog, being made to jump through a few extra hoops to get the prize (sex). Also, I'd argue that the "No sex until commitment" girls are likely to use sex as a bargaining chip later in the relationship if you happen to continue down that path.

I know I ranted a little bit, but with all of that being said, once the panties are off you need to go in for the kill. There are lots of good resources on dealing with LMR.

Post: #9

(01-07-2015 04:06 PM)tallandblonde Wrote:  Any woman that says this likely has been pumped and dumped before by a guy she really liked, and is now spiteful about it. She thinks that sex is the only thing that she has to offer, so she uses it as a bargaining chip to drag a quality guy into an LTR. She'll suck your dick, she'll let you finger her, but the second you try to put the condom on for fucking, you get the LMR. It's likely she doesn't have a lot of self esteem and is overly concerned with her "number." Maybe she's only had sex with 5 guys, but she has sucked a hell of a lot more dicks.

Ironically though, the quality guys don't stick around after date 2 or 3 without any sex. They will want to test drive the car before buying it. Any enlightened male realizes that an LTR is a complete waste of their important time if there is no good sex. Honestly, there's nothing that makes me lose interest faster in a woman than LMR. Sure, you can game her into having sex with you, and that's probably what you should do right in the moment. But I despise being a woman's show dog, being made to jump through a few extra hoops to get the prize (sex). Also, I'd argue that the "No sex until commitment" girls are likely to use sex as a bargaining chip later in the relationship if you happen to continue down that path.

I know I ranted a little bit, but with all of that being said, once the panties are off you need to go in for the kill. There are lots of good resources on dealing with LMR.

Great advice! The next time a woman tells me this outside of the bedroom I'm going to smirk and say there's not a guy alive who doesn't want to test drive the car before buying it. Treat it like the absurd remark it is...

Post: #10

Yeah I'm of the same mind with WIA. Why don't you just lie? Shit you can even tell her all the "I'll love you forever and ever" stuff. What's the big deal?

Casanova if his accounts are to be true, lie extensively and was a very sweet seducer. He promised all the fancy things to his girls.

A DJ and dance instructor I know scream sex and red-pill just by looking at him, yet he has multiple girlfriends and promises them babies and marriages. I ran into one of his ex and she was still so mad. I chuckled in my head "bitch you REALLY believe a DJ/dance teacher could be the commitment type? Seriously?"

Girls lie to us all the time. I see no reason to not do the same. Morals about lying have no place in the realm of love.

Post: #11

It's obvious, she's using sex as bait to trap you into a relationship god knows how it will develop.
You have to remain vigilant with such types.

Post: #12

I run into this alot.
The way you can tell if this girl is actually a good girl or just a slut who's been pumped and dumped too many times is where she will let you take her.
I dated a genuine good girl about 7 years ago. We were never alone together for the 1st month. Always in public. She would drive herself there and a back home. Never consumed booze in my company. Would only allow kisses on the cheek at first. Whenever i tried to push for more i got slapped in the face or on the hand if it was mild.
After 3 months we became officially a couple...
She was congruent from day 1 till the end of the relationship.
She said she only been with 2 guys before me...which seemed very likely considering i could barely get one finger inside her at first.

That is what i expect to see when a girl is denying me sex. Anything less than this, she is jsut tired of being pumped and dumped.

Post: #13

Next time lie, then bang.

Post: #14

Generally she lies, but who knows - might be a hard carousel rider who now takes Millionaire Matchmaker advice: "No sex before monogamy!"

Most often women past their prime are usually attempting that - 28+ who are attempting to let you run through hoops that previous Alphas did not have to.

Either you lie, use a soft lie by saying that all you can promise her is to have sex only with her if the sex is mind-shattering and you fit perfectly. You can even tell her that you think that a woman has to have sex with a man in order to show her real personality - before sex you are just a friendzoned-chump or get shit-tested non-stop. After sex you open up more and find out how well you fit in a potential LTR.

In a way it's a soft lie and bullshit, because any woman saying that line is instantly disqualified for a LTR unless she does it just as a shit-test.

And who knows - the soft lie may not be untrue if the sex is fantastic and she becomes the perfect girl for you.

It's either that, you ignore what she says and push on (no rape though) or you next her.

Post: #15

Next time, dont ask.

As long as she brings the subject up without you asking, u know what shes thinking of, just like when a woman says "we are not having sex tonight" when she comes to your place means you are having sex tonight.

Post: #16

you will probably hate my answer but here's what's up.

the best solution is to scare away girls by being more polarizing/edgy from the get go. I can be very edgy and and it determines how girls respond to me. the end result is that nice boring prudish types either can't stomach me. this is the reason why my GFs were sexy, slightly bitchy/sassy and quite confident girls knowing their worth. more like "ride or die" types than "fragile ladies".

to me it's all about the image and your interest in the girl. it's possible to express that interest in genuine way, not only subcommunicating it but even verbally. you can tell her how she turns you on and that she shouldn't let you be alone with her because you will not hold back your feelings towards her etc.

if your relationship with her is more casual like you're a guy from her social circle she's into but doesn't show that publicly then you can flirt by telling her what you both should NOT be doing. it's a great fucking trick. you simple tell her that you should not be alone for more than 10 minutes cause you get carried away. or that you should not do homework together because you will not learn shit. or you should not be sitting together in a bus cause by the time you arrive you will be in love. etc etc. it's more casual and less romantic but still gets the message across.

Post: #17

Any of you guys try the "freeze out" technique where you ignore her?

A lot of stuff I read from David D (he must've gotten it from Mystery) 10 years ago I've forgotten. The strategy on this forum often seems to be aggressive as hell - at least it comes that way to me - when what I really need to do is to stop and get her to chase me more by pulling back, teasing and making it a silly game.

Post: #18

Freezing out an uncooperative girl is a great technique, but only works if you know she will chase

You have to have your hooks in her deep enough that when you withdraw that attention, she will be thirsty enough to chase knowing the only way she can get it back is starting playing by your rules.

Works just like a dealer turning out a feign, here's a taste - now I'm taking it away.

It's essentially a power grab

Post: #19

Call her bluff. Maybe something along the lines of "I don't buy a car without test driving it."

Post: #20

(01-08-2015 12:42 PM)ElJefe Wrote:  Any of you guys try the "freeze out" technique where you ignore her?

A lot of stuff I read from David D (he must've gotten it from Mystery) 10 years ago I've forgotten. The strategy on this forum often seems to be aggressive as hell - at least it comes that way to me - when what I really need to do is to stop and get her to chase me more by pulling back, teasing and making it a silly game.

I think this is really undervalued advice by many people on here. I've shared a lot of my failed attempts at overcoming LMR and from what I can determine post mortem the majority of my problems have been from me pushing too hard. As a result the woman gets on the defensive, digs her heels in and it becomes a battle of wills. The times where I successfully negotiated the LMR I would tease, pull back, move in a little more, pull back until finally the woman uttered the magical words all of us love to hear "do you have a condom?"

In spite of my knowing this I still get caught up in the moment and go balls to the wall only to crash and burn...

Post: #21

Interesting question. I tried several times saying "well, if I'm doing that, it's because I want to go exclusive with you, because I don't have sex with any random girl too", and it worked most of the time. It can hurt the girl in the long term, but that's what she gets for shit testing you.

However LMR really turns me off. Even if I finally get the lay, all that LMR made me have a halfer for the sex part.

Post: #22

Lots of great advice; I've had this a couple times lately but I usually go with the "ok" or "I know" and then keep kissing but with a kind of push / pull mindset as well. I keep the kisses unpredictable and all over the place as my hands are scanning. It may take some time but enough making out, light caressing, and a little hair pull at the right time has lead to her saying something like "just put it in" more times than not. I learned that here, so thanks to everyone on here. Before if a girl said "we're not having sex tonight" I would've just stopped trying...fuck what they say and go with what they do or what their body language says.

The other great advice I read was to lie... Who knows; this chick would likely lie to you in a heart beat to get what she wants. Now here you are and you want that pussy so lie if you have to...

Post: #23

(01-08-2015 12:54 PM)MY DETROIT PLAYAS Wrote:  Freezing out an uncooperative girl is a great technique, but only works if you know she will chase

You have to have your hooks in her deep enough that when you withdraw that attention, she will be thirsty enough to chase knowing the only way she can get it back is starting playing by your rules.

Works just like a dealer turning out a feign, here's a taste - now I'm taking it away.

It's essentially a power grab

Pretty much.

I think if all cards are played correctly, this is usually the case.

A good line to use early on if a girl pulls out that bullshit is "it's ok, you're not my type anyway" and retreat. This will usually cause a girl to bang her head on the wall. Eventually she'll play by your rules

Or you can just lie.

Post: #24

(01-08-2015 12:42 PM)ElJefe Wrote:  Any of you guys try the "freeze out" technique where you ignore her?

A lot of stuff I read from David D (he must've gotten it from Mystery) 10 years ago I've forgotten. The strategy on this forum often seems to be aggressive as hell - at least it comes that way to me - when what I really need to do is to stop and get her to chase me more by pulling back, teasing and making it a silly game.

Freeze Out is what the 2nd thing you do when you run into this situation.

The 1st thing you do is seduce properly - 2 steps forward, 1 step back. Tease her to death until she can't think straight. You want a chick grabbing your dick and pulling it into her.

The way I read his issue was more general than the specifics he mentioned.

Could be wrong.

Lying is one option, one of many. But I sense that OP would hesitate when it comes to doing the most logical thing.

Chicks lie to us all the time, trying to fool our eyes and definitely playing games with our affections. This is done w/o provocation and not because they've been "damaged by players" Chicks lie as much as they breath. She lies to us, she lies to her friends and family, her coworkers and teachers and most of all to herself.

Perhaps lying is the wrong word, but chicks find truth to be malleable. They'll use it when it's to their advantage and discard it when it's not.

Truthbetold, half the verbal game, half of attracting a woman with your words is using her "logic" to charm her.

Backhanded compliments, ignoring the target, being unpredictable - those are all lessons out of the How Women Communicate with Each other handbook. (1972 edition, Vol II, MacMillian publishing co.)

WIA

Post: #25

This is great advice and I definitely have more tools to handle this shit test the next time it comes up.

@WIA you're right, I was just asking in general terms and was wondering how to handle it when she brings the topic up while out on a date (not in the place where i'm escalating towards sex). I also know I need to be more liberal with the truth and not be afraid to tell a woman what she wants to hear because yes, I've been lied to by women more times than I can count and they have no trouble sleeping at night.