Post: #1

Parents let their kids walk home alone from a park. Now Child Protection Services is coming after the parents for neglect.

I see more and more stories popping up like this these days where the government is here to tell us how to parent our children.

Parents investigated for neglect after letting kids walk home alone

Quote:It was a one-mile walk home from a Silver Spring park on Georgia Avenue on a Saturday afternoon. But what the parents saw as a moment of independence for their 10-year-old son and 6-year-old daughter, they say authorities viewed much differently.

Danielle and Alexander Meitiv say they are being investigated for neglect for the Dec. 20 trek — in a case they say reflects a clash of ideas about how safe the world is and whether parents are free to make their own choices about raising their children.

“We wouldn’t have let them do it if we didn’t think they were ready for it,” Danielle said.

She said her son and daughter have previously paired up for walks around the block, to a nearby 7-Eleven and to a library about three-quarters of a mile away. “They have proven they are responsible,” she said. “They’ve developed these skills.”

The Meitivs say they believe in “free-range” parenting, a movement that has been a counterpoint to the hyper-vigilance of “helicopter” parenting, with the idea that children learn self-reliance by being allowed to progressively test limits, make choices and venture out in the world.

“The world is actually even safer than when I was a child, and I just want to give them the same freedom and independence that I had — basically an old-fashioned childhood,” she said. “I think it’s absolutely critical for their development — to learn responsibility, to experience the world, to gain confidence and competency.”

On Dec. 20, Alexander agreed to let the children, Rafi and Dvora, walk from Woodside Park to their home, a mile south, in an area the family says the children know well.

The children made it about halfway.

Police picked up the children near the Discovery building, the family said, after someone reported seeing them.

Police on Wednesday did not immediately have information on the case. But a spokeswoman said that when concerns are reported, “we have a responsibility as part of our duty to check on people’s welfare.”

The Meitivs say their son told police that he and his sister were not doing anything illegal and are allowed to walk. Usually, their mother said, the children carry a laminated card with parent contact information that says: “I am not lost. I am a free-range kid.” The kids didn’t have the card that day.

Danielle said she and her husband give parenting a lot of thought.

“Parenthood is an exercise in risk management,” she said. “Every day, we decide: Are we going to let our kids play football? Are we going to let them do a sleep­over? Are we going to let them climb a tree? We’re not saying parents should abandon all caution. We’re saying parents should pay attention to risks that are dangerous and likely to happen.”

She added: “Abductions are extremely rare. Car accidents are not. The number one cause of death for children of their age is a car accident.”

Danielle is a climate-science consultant, and Alexander is a physicist at the National Institutes of Health.

Alexander said he had a tense time with police on Dec. 20 when officers returned his children, asked for his identification and told him about the dangers of the world.

The more lasting issue has been with Montgomery County Child Protective Services, he said, which showed up a couple of hours after the police left.

Mary Anderson, a spokeswoman for CPS, said she could not comment on cases but that neglect investigations typically focus on questions of whether there has been a failure to provide proper care and supervision.

In such investigations, she said, CPS may look for guidance to a state law about leaving children unattended, which says children younger than 8 must be left with a reliable person who is at least 13 years old. The law covers dwellings, enclosures and vehicles.

The Meitivs say that on Dec. 20, a CPS worker required Alexander to sign a safety plan pledging he would not leave his children unsupervised until the following Monday, when CPS would follow up. At first he refused, saying he needed to talk to a lawyer, his wife said, but changed his mind when he was told his children would be removed if he did not comply.

You either sign the document CPS tells you to sign or they'll take your children away from you!

And from the rest of the article, it appears that once the government starts shining its nanny-state light on you, it's hard to get them to stop...

Quote:Following the holidays, the family said, CPS called again, saying the agency needed to inquire further and visit the family’s home. Danielle said she resisted.

“It seemed such a huge violation of privacy to examine my house because my kids were walking home,” she said.

This week, a CPS social worker showed up at her door, she said. She did not let him in. She said she was stunned to later learn from the principal that her children were interviewed at school.

The family has a meeting set for next week at CPS offices in Rockville.

“I think what CPS considered neglect, we felt was an essential part of growing up and maturing,” Alexander said. “We feel we’re being bullied into a point of view about child-rearing that we strongly disagree with.”

Post: #2

This isn't the first time a case like this happened and I agree the government is insane with this stuff.

But I've brushed elbows with Danielle, the mother, in DC book circles and know of her as an author. I wonder if this might not have been set up (or blown out of proportion) to get her name in the press which will help her with name recognition and future book sales.

This is, after all, how the woman who wrote "Free-Range Kids" became famous -- only in her case, it was people's outrage, not the cops that got her an audience.

Maybe I'm just a cynic and see publicity angles in everything. Whatever the case, the government is overstepping here and if she can write about it and change that, it's a positive step.

Post: #3

(01-15-2015 10:21 PM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:  This isn't the first time a case like this happened and I agree the government is insane with this stuff.

"Da guvment" is just a concept. It's a nice word for describe a governing body composed of people who are typically flawed.

Without checks and balances, people who are given power will do a lot of stupid things.

Let's call this what it is:

In this case, a woman with a social work degree (and certification) from a liberal, man-hating, anti-family post-secondary degree "is just following policy" and "is just doing her job."

Friends of my family's used to deal with these types back when we were part of a homeschooling organization.

You wouldn't believe the harassment you can face for engaging in the completely legal activity of educating your children privately or because the neighbour said that they heard noise coming from your house.

These "social worker" types will insist on setting up a meeting to come over, strip your kids naked and check them for bruises.

The solution is usually found in "not being home" at the appointed time of the meeting and having a good lawyer you specializes in these situations.

Post: #4

It could be the case that they are indeed doing this for publicity reasons, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if this really happened. The US has one of the most invasive governments I've ever heard of and I'm not even talking about espionage or secret things.

It's definitely one of the last places I would choose to raise my child if I had one.

Post: #5

They give a couple of PC psychologists the power to separate children from their loving&caring parents and they call it "child protection services". Oh, the irony...

Post: #6

They're doing everything that they can to foster dependence. Kids can't even develop normally in the States anymore. When I was a kid we made up our own games, made up rules to follow, and when there was a problem we mediated. But now kids are just shuttled from organized activity to another. You can't expect them to be confident individuals if they're not allowed to think, and do for themselves. Our current system is a incubator for SJW's.

Post: #7

I guess I have/had neglecting parents. I used to walk a whole 3/4 of a mile to and from school. There was also a set of railroad tracks I would walk along from time to time to skip the hill.

Post: #8

One more reason, if there were any more needed, not to:
- getting married in the US/Canada and the Anglophone countries in general.
- having and raising your kids in such a toxic and unnatural environment.

If it wasn't enough risky to get married in this so called advanced and progressive environment of the western world, now you have this added risk of getting your kids taken away for no reason? To hell with that! I know I won't be raising my kids in an Anglophone country for damn sure! I'd much rather raise them in a so called developing country where the laws are sane, the women are feminine and where the environment is sane to raise healthy both in mind and body, strong, masculine boys and sweet feminine girls.

Post: #9

(01-16-2015 05:42 PM)Vacancier Permanent Wrote:  One more reason, if there were any more needed, not to:
- getting married in the US/Canada and the Anglophone countries in general.
- having and raising your kids in such a toxic and unnatural environment.

If it wasn't enough risky to get married in this so called advanced and progressive environment of the western world, now you have this added risk of getting your kids taken away for no reason? To hell with that! I know I won't be raising my kids in an Anglophone country for damn sure! I'd much rather raise them in a so called developing country where the laws are sane, the women are feminine and where the environment is sane to raise healthy both in mind and body, strong, masculine boys and sweet feminine girls.

Have you any idea which country fits this criteria? Its like this in the UK too. The more I hear about Russia these days the more I think they have got it sorted with regard to these issues. There are no 'womans rights' or feminism. 'Human rights' is not the scam licence to print money and let criminals off scot free there. File sharing is not blocked. I have gone very off the USA since Obama got into office.

Post: #10

Fmman,
Russia, countries in SEA as well as Brasil come to mind from personal experience. I Would imagine EE would also be a good candidate. As a rule of thumb, look for non english speaking countries as it would be a great place to start.

Post: #11

This kind of shit makes me so angry I almost see red.

CPS is using a law that covers:

Quote:In such investigations, she said, CPS may look for guidance to a state law about leaving children unattended, which says children younger than 8 must be left with a reliable person who is at least 13 years old. The law covers dwellings, enclosures and vehicles.

Bold mine. Fucking nanny state assholes. You guys do realize that depending on jurisdiction (state, province, country etc), CPS or CPS like agencies get more funding based on the # of kids they seize? What kind of fucking nutjob bureaucrat thought that was a good idea?

Post: #12

So a ten year old boy isn't old enough or mature enough to lead his six year old sister on a simple walk home, but an eleven year old boy is old enough and mature enough to make a life altering decision to begin hormone therapy and become a girl?

Post: #13

Reason Magazine has a whole saga of reports of this. Apparently this was just the start of the harassment the family experienced, including a police office showing up at their door and threatening to shoot them if they "bring any suspicious objects" while talking to her.

Post: #14

So I watch the news report on this. The only reason I think this is a questionable idea at this age is simply this:

There is more traffic, considerably more, then when I learned to drive 20 years ago. Every road, we're overpopulating this planet folks.

Secondly, attention span deficit driving due to the actual condition itself (ADD), people on pills for all sorts of shit, and above all, cell phone crashes.

My parents tried to keep me away from heavy traffic alone until I was closer to 12. But by 10 I was crossing large busy 5 lane roads sneaking away with neighborhood kids anyways.

edit: actually come to think of it, on bikes we were all over the place, when I was 10. I think my parents actually trusted me more on a bike (bigger obstacle) than just walking around that age.

Post: #15

(01-16-2015 08:03 PM)Only One Man Wrote:  So a ten year old boy isn't old enough or mature enough to lead his six year old sister on a simple walk home, but an eleven year old boy is old enough and mature enough to make a life altering decision to begin hormone therapy and become a girl?

This is our country now. it's almost unimaginable isn't it?

Post: #16

(01-16-2015 05:05 PM)teh_skeeze Wrote:  I guess I have/had neglecting parents. I used to walk a whole 3/4 of a mile to and from school. There was also a set of railroad tracks I would walk along from time to time to skip the hill.

Me too. I used to walk to and from school by myself, along with every other kid in our neighborhood. And during the summers we spent the all day outside making our own fun, without our parents hovering protectively over us every minute.

The younger generations are going to grow up never knowing that it used to be different.

Post: #17

There is a special place in hell for CPS workers. 8th circle Bolgia 5, 6, or 7 take your pick. Even if you found a good woman to have kids with, even if she resisted the current political landscape and stayed thin and feminine and knew how to cook; It might not matter because the state will come and question your common sense parenting.

My parents were the free range of free range. All the neighborhood kids were out every weekend day playing. We came home for meals and at dusk. We handled our own shit when there were fights or disagreements. We were all under 10 years old. My parents got that time you need to be away from your kids. They were probably screwing and I would say that is a good thing - never got divorced even through some rough times and my mother never got fat.

Post: #18

I really don't want to get into too much detail here, and if anyone has any specific questions, feel free to a P.M. me. Here's my take on this. The police probably took the children home and waited for one or both of the parents to show up at their home. The police probably had every intention of either issuing one or both parents citations for confining an unattended child or maybe even letting them go with a warning. The police may very well have had no intention of involving protective services, especially if there was no history of abuse or neglect. My guess is that eventually one or both parents arrived at the home and were completely uncooperative, argumentative, and/or disrespectful to the police and the police then decided to involve protective services. Once protective services got involved, it is clear that the parents were uncooperative with them, pissed them off, and now it's a whole thing. If a safety plan is put into place and the parents follow it, which is a big if, that may be the end of it, except maybe for some review hearings. If they had simply read my posts about how to behave when confronted with police, I really believe they could have avoided much of this problem.

Post: #19

(01-16-2015 11:26 PM)Merenguero Wrote:  I really don't want to get into too much detail here, and if anyone has any specific questions, feel free to a P.M. me. Here's my take on this. The police probably took the children home and waited for one or both of the parents to show up at their home. The police probably had every intention of either issuing one or both parents citations for confining an unattended child or maybe even letting them go with a warning. The police may very well have had no intention of involving protective services, especially if there was no history of abuse or neglect. My guess is that eventually one or both parents arrived at the home and were completely uncooperative, argumentative, and/or disrespectful to the police and the police then decided to involve protective services. Once protective services got involved, it is clear that the parents were uncooperative with them, pissed them off, and now it's a whole thing. If a safety plan is put into place and the parents follow it, which is a big if, that may be the end of it, except maybe for some review hearings. If they had simply read my posts about how to behave when confronted with police, I really believe they could have avoided much of this problem.

^Obviously, we can't know (unless you have some special knowledge of the case), but its probably safe to assume that there may be more to a story like this.

On the other hand, we don't know that there is more to the story.

Your perspective is appreciately, however.

Post: #20

(01-16-2015 11:39 PM)Suits Wrote:  

(01-16-2015 11:26 PM)Merenguero Wrote:  I really don't want to get into too much detail here, and if anyone has any specific questions, feel free to a P.M. me. Here's my take on this. The police probably took the children home and waited for one or both of the parents to show up at their home. The police probably had every intention of either issuing one or both parents citations for confining an unattended child or maybe even letting them go with a warning. The police may very well have had no intention of involving protective services, especially if there was no history of abuse or neglect. My guess is that eventually one or both parents arrived at the home and were completely uncooperative, argumentative, and/or disrespectful to the police and the police then decided to involve protective services. Once protective services got involved, it is clear that the parents were uncooperative with them, pissed them off, and now it's a whole thing. If a safety plan is put into place and the parents follow it, which is a big if, that may be the end of it, except maybe for some review hearings. If they had simply read my posts about how to behave when confronted with police, I really believe they could have avoided much of this problem.

^Obviously, we can't know (unless you have some special knowledge of the case), but its probably safe to assume that there may be more to a story like this.

On the other hand, we don't know that there is more to the story.

Your perspective is appreciately, however.

I'll stay out of the rest of this thread. If anyone has any questions, P.M. me.

Post: #21

Quote:someone reported seeing them

Some busybody wasting everyone's time. Imagine if the father had been walking them home, her hysterical call would have gotten him tased or worse.

Post: #22

(01-16-2015 11:26 PM)Merenguero Wrote:  I really don't want to get into too much detail here, and if anyone has any specific questions, feel free to a P.M. me. Here's my take on this. The police probably took the children home and waited for one or both of the parents to show up at their home. The police probably had every intention of either issuing one or both parents citations for confining an unattended child or maybe even letting them go with a warning. The police may very well have had no intention of involving protective services, especially if there was no history of abuse or neglect. My guess is that eventually one or both parents arrived at the home and were completely uncooperative, argumentative, and/or disrespectful to the police and the police then decided to involve protective services. Once protective services got involved, it is clear that the parents were uncooperative with them, pissed them off, and now it's a whole thing. If a safety plan is put into place and the parents follow it, which is a big if, that may be the end of it, except maybe for some review hearings. If they had simply read my posts about how to behave when confronted with police, I really believe they could have avoided much of this problem.

Even if this is how it went down, the cops still way overstepped their bounds by picking up a 10 year old boy who was walking his little sister home, one mile away. If those were my children I'd bite the fucking cops head off also.

A ten year old is more than capable of walking his sister home one mile. This is a decision for the parents to make and the police and CPS should keep their nose out of it.

Post: #23

(01-15-2015 10:10 PM)Renzy Wrote:  The Meitivs say that on Dec. 20, a CPS worker required Alexander to sign a safety plan pledging he would not leave his children unsupervised until the following Monday, when CPS would follow up. At first he refused, saying he needed to talk to a lawyer, his wife said, but changed his mind when he was told his children would be removed if he did not comply.

They acknowledge so-called rights, but they ignore personal liberty.
Order a man to hand over his child to the state - if I ever became a father, over my dead body.

Post: #24

(01-15-2015 10:10 PM)Renzy Wrote:  On Dec. 20, Alexander agreed to let the children, Rafi and Dvora, walk from Woodside Park to their home, a mile south, in an area the family says the children know well.

The children made it about halfway.
...
In such investigations, she said, CPS may look for guidance to a state law about leaving children unattended, which says children younger than 8 must be left with a reliable person who is at least 13 years old. The law covers dwellings, enclosures and vehicles.

The Meitivs say that on Dec. 20, a CPS worker required Alexander to sign a safety plan pledging he would not leave his children unsupervised until the following Monday, when CPS would follow up. At first he refused, saying he needed to talk to a lawyer, his wife said, but changed his mind when he was told his children would be removed if he did not comply.

This is the law: http://law.justia.com/codes/maryland/200...5-801.html

Don't see anything in there about outdoors.

If I were the father, my response to that threat would have been as follows:
"[writes down officers name]. Can I confirm you are [name]? If you kidnap my child, I will petition for a writ of habeous corpus and writ of mandamus at [name of closest court]. Have you understood what I have said?". I would then leave.

That wouldn't necessarily be legally sound, but they would step back and more carefully consider their actions, giving you enough time to prepare and take action (temporarily getting your children out of the state if necessary).

Post: #25

I'd be interested to learn more about this. I think people being paranoid is on the rise. I was a kid in the 80s and rode my bike probably a mile to a friend's house and played in the woods. Cops would stop and talk to us if we were near the road, it was more like "hey, what are you boys up to?"

As an adult, I have had the cops called on my in a typical suburban neighborhood, while out for a walk by myself because I was 'suspicious'...beard, black hoodie and basebal cap and tattoos. Again, the cops pull up and run my name and then apologize that they had to follow up on the call. Guess how many times I've been stopped when I'm wearing 'workout' clothes and walking or running though?

I think that people are just way more nosy and paranoid than they were before because no one knows their neighbours, and if you aren't their 'facebook friend' they are concerned about who you are. People shit themselves when someone besides UPS knocks on their door nowadays.