Post: #1

I've been doing starting strength for awhile now. my squats and deadlift has been steadily increasing whereas my bench press and dumbell exercises have barely increased 5-10lb. If I add another 5lb I fail at the 4th or 5th rep depending on the day.

I've finally realized my arms are way weaker than what they should be and I need them to catch up to the rest of my body first. Any recommendations on how I should go about it?

Only constraint is I go to the gym every other day. Don't have time for everyday workout. I'm at 25lb dumbells, i typically fail at 1st/2nd set for 30lb.
And I'm at 105lb bench press, I fail at 5th rep first set. I have friends spot.

Post: #2

(03-24-2015 01:12 PM)Blackliter Wrote:  I've been doing starting strength for awhile now. my squats and deadlift has been steadily increasing whereas my bench press and dumbell exercises have barely increased 5-10lb. If I add another 5lb I fail at the 4th or 5th rep depending on the day.

I've finally realized my arms are way weaker than what they should be and I need them to catch up to the rest of my body first. Any recommendations on how I should go about it?

Only constraint is I go to the gym every other day. Don't have time for everyday workout. I'm at 25lb dumbells, i typically fail at 1st/2nd set for 30lb.
And I'm at 105lb bench press, I fail at 5th rep first set. I have friends spot.

Upper body often progresses more slowly than lower body. What do you weigh currently, what are you eating on a typical day, how long have you been training?

Post: #3

I've always had a much stronger back and lower body. My upper body was always something i was ashamed of.

Are you really tall and have long arms? You might benefit from doing a wider grip bench. Another trick that might help are some pec isolation moves to build it up. Once you plateau however switch back to a wide grip bench.

Post: #4

Are you doing chin ups at all? I feel like chin-ups and dips did a lot for my arm development.

Post: #5

How many reps do you curl? I've been doing no more than 8 reps per set. This is supposed to be optimal for muscle growth.
If you can make it to 8 reps with good form, increase with the smallest amount of weight and build up to 8 reps again. I feel I'm growing again for the first time in years with this system. I use it for all exercises.

Fuck one rep maxes.

Post: #6

You're going to have to do more than 15 reps one and a half times a week if you want your bench to grow.

Put 60% of your one rep max on the bar and do at least two sets to failure at the end of your workout. If you don't have a spot. do dips instead and try to touch your thumbs to your armpits. Anything less is not a dip. If you can't do dips, do pushups. Increase your pulling volume a bit too (if you're doing chins, cleans or rows that means to do however many extra sets of them, too).

As far as arms, if you don't have a lot of time you could superset curls and tricep pushdowns, or do dumbbell hammer curl and press in a ladder format with little rest (I do five reps at a time, starting with the lightest weight and working my way up until I fail, then I go back down the ladder). This is my go-to arm builder, hits arms, shoulders, and forearms. Basically start at 5 lbs, do 5 reps, set them on the rack, do 10 lbs for 5 reps, put them back, then 15 etc etc. Let's say you fail at 40 lbs for 5 reps, then go back down the ladder to 35 lbs, do 5 reps until you get to the lightest dumbbell and you're done. It might take ten minutes depending on how strong you are. If you get up to 40 lbs in this ladder with five rep sets, then you just did 75 reps with an overall volume of 1600 lbs. You'll get a pump, trust me.

I know it says Starting Strength and everyone on their forum is going to tell you to "do the fucking program" and anything extra will overtrain you and you'll die of AIDS. I don't know about you, but I like to hit upper body a lot more than lower body because I'm never going to be a powerlifter and no one cares how much you squat. Don't be scared to throw a lot of volume at your arms.

Post: #7

If your genetics is lower body and back like me and others you have to ignore the "rah rah rah deadlift squat" cheer that most guys do.

I had 16.5in. calves and 24in. thighs in high school naturally never having done a squat or deadlift in my life.

My point being if your arms have weaker genetics for building focus on them. Always make them a priority and miss leg days to give much more energy to grow your arms.

Bench and military press both did jackshit for me.

Heavy weight dips
Reverse grip pulley curls (blow up your forearms)
Use a rowing machine with a high resistance setting (will blow up your shoulders and help your forearms and biceps as well not to mention your overall posture)

As someone that lack in arms (tall and long armed) compared to the rest it took me a long time to learn this.

Post: #8

But seriously, eat more and you will get stronger and bigger.

Post: #9

starting strength by design doesn't lead to a lot of upper body strength.

I had the same problem with my bench. I could barely hit 115 so I upped the volume

I was doing on my normal bench days: 5x5 regular bench then I'd do 3 sets of 8 with wide grip then the same with close grip. on deadlift days id do a light round of incline bench or dumbbell Bench etc. A few months later I was able to do a single of 225

starting strength is a good program, but if you keep stalling the best thing to do is to add more volume (at an appropriate weight) because you're never going to get anywhere maxing out every day

Post: #10

Post: #11

What are your height, age, ethnicity, and wrist circumference?

Post: #12

I'm the opposite of the majority of guys in this thread being chest/arm dominant and stuck with skinny white boy legs.

Several points:
-You don't need to workout every day to get jacked. But you might as well be doing something on your days off from the gym. I'd recommend bodyweight exercises as you can do them anywhere and they often give you a functional strength/tone that weights don't. Do several sets of push ups/bench dips/chin ups. Remember that your arms are 2/3 triceps by volume. Don't neglect them.
-EAT. You're doing yourself a disservice and slowing down gains by not consuming more calories.
-Forced reps. I know starting strength gives you a regiment of compound lifts (3x5, 1x5...) but why not do forced reps atleast on the auxiliary exercises. If you fail at the 5th rep, pause a few seconds and squeeze out a few more reps. Or just add more volume.

Post: #13

(03-24-2015 01:12 PM)Blackliter Wrote:  I've been doing starting strength for awhile now. my squats and deadlift has been steadily increasing whereas my bench press and dumbell exercises have barely increased 5-10lb. If I add another 5lb I fail at the 4th or 5th rep depending on the day.

I've finally realized my arms are way weaker than what they should be and I need them to catch up to the rest of my body first. Any recommendations on how I should go about it?

Only constraint is I go to the gym every other day. Don't have time for everyday workout. I'm at 25lb dumbells, i typically fail at 1st/2nd set for 30lb.
And I'm at 105lb bench press, I fail at 5th rep first set. I have friends spot.

If you are only repping a little over 100lbs on bench then you are not strong enough to be concerned about only repping 25lb dumbbells.
Get your bench up to 185lb for reps and I bet your arms will be stronger as well.

In addition smaller muscles progress slower than larger muscles. Biceps, tricepts, delts are tiny compared to your legs and back.

Post: #14

Thanks for the info guys. Background info, 5'9'' 135lbs vegetarian (been for life), been going to gym now for 2 months. I down double protein shakes, and weight gainer. Trying to up food intake. cereal for breakfast with whey protein in it, buffet lunch, and dinner at chipotle/moes/ homemade meal of beans.
I need to step up breakfast amount, what else would you add?

Getting bench up to 185lb is going to take forever, definitely need to hit arms more. wrist size is 6.7''.

Will doing pushups and chinups on off days affect my lifting days since im hitting the same muscle group?

Also row machine sounds good, ive been doing backrows on the weight machine. I like the ladder suggestion given though i'd prob start at a higher weight in interest of time, or decreasing ladder?

What are some routines you would use to hit Arms (tris, bis, forarms), shoulders, and chest? I've got dips, shoulder presses, reverse grip pulleys, tri pull downs.
I honestly feel like bench and squat (I do them first) are tiring me out with less gains so once I hit the volume stuff for arms my body is already spent. Would you say to completely knock the big lifts off or still do it?

Also do you guys recommend working out through Doms? I worked out Tues, rest wed, muscles still hurt thurs. Do I wait till Friday or push through today?

Post: #15

(03-26-2015 10:59 AM)Blackliter Wrote:  Thanks for the info guys. Background info, 5'9'' 135lbs vegetarian (been for life), been going to gym now for 2 months. I down double protein shakes, and weight gainer. Trying to up food intake. cereal for breakfast with whey protein in it, buffet lunch, and dinner at chipotle/moes/ homemade meal of beans.
I need to step up breakfast amount, what else would you add?

Getting bench up to 185lb is going to take forever, definitely need to hit arms more. wrist size is 6.7''.

Will doing pushups and chinups on off days affect my lifting days since im hitting the same muscle group?

Also row machine sounds good, ive been doing backrows on the weight machine. I like the ladder suggestion given though i'd prob start at a higher weight in interest of time, or decreasing ladder?

What are some routines you would use to hit Arms (tris, bis, forarms), shoulders, and chest? I've got dips, shoulder presses, reverse grip pulleys, tri pull downs.
I honestly feel like bench and squat (I do them first) are tiring me out with less gains so once I hit the volume stuff for arms my body is already spent. Would you say to completely knock the big lifts off or still do it?

As an unassisted (not on steroids) vegetarian you are going to struggle for any gains you make. You fundamentally need to accept that, and adjust your expectations accordingly. Protein powder, and vegetable proteins are less than ideal sources of protein. If you eat dairy, I'd stuff myself on cheese and drink a lot of milk. If you eat eggs, I'd hammer those. If you do fish, I'd smash that. All quality sources of protein. If you do none of those things, then I'd settle in to accepting that it will take you a very long time to make significant gains.

That is not to discourage you, but it is pretty clear that your lifestyle choice and optimal muscular/physical performance are not compatible, and if you are realistic about that, you can structure your training accordingly.

The first thing I'd add to what you list above is creatine. Red meat is a good source, but you're obviously not getting any of that, so you particularly will need to supplement.

Avoid eating any soy products. Although high in protein, and a tempting source for vegetarians, it is ball shrinking and manboob growing stuff. It will reduce your testosterone and impact your gains.

Finally, do not cut the big lifts. If anything, you may need to focus on them exclusively, hit one each training day HARD, and then go home. They are your money makers, and you should never swap them for assistance work, if your goals are size and or strength.

Post: #16

(03-26-2015 10:59 AM)Blackliter Wrote:  Thanks for the info guys. Background info, 5'9'' 135lbs vegetarian (been for life), been going to gym now for 2 months. I down double protein shakes, and weight gainer. Trying to up food intake. cereal for breakfast with whey protein in it, buffet lunch, and dinner at chipotle/moes/ homemade meal of beans.
I need to step up breakfast amount, what else would you add?

Getting bench up to 185lb is going to take forever, definitely need to hit arms more. wrist size is 6.7''.

Will doing pushups and chinups on off days affect my lifting days since im hitting the same muscle group?

Also row machine sounds good, ive been doing backrows on the weight machine. I like the ladder suggestion given though i'd prob start at a higher weight in interest of time, or decreasing ladder?

What are some routines you would use to hit Arms (tris, bis, forarms), shoulders, and chest? I've got dips, shoulder presses, reverse grip pulleys, tri pull downs.
I honestly feel like bench and squat (I do them first) are tiring me out with less gains so once I hit the volume stuff for arms my body is already spent. Would you say to completely knock the big lifts off or still do it?

Also do you guys recommend working out through Doms? I worked out Tues, rest wed, muscles still hurt thurs. Do I wait till Friday or push through today?

At 5' 9" 135 you shouldn't worry about arms. You are a good candidate for something like Starting Strength or another novice progression where you do heavy compound lifts 3x a week and hit those macros. Something that focuses on big compound lifts plus chin-ups or pull-ups. The solution to DOMS is to lift more often. Lift 1 day, rest 2nd day, lift 3rd day and you'll feel better on that 3rd day. Also make sure you're getting enough BCAAs in your diet via whey or whatever. Sounds like you just need to keep training hard, get your diet dialed in, eat more and plan on gaining at least 30lbs (not all at once!) over the next year.

Edit: just re-read OP. Go read the nutrition section of the SS forums and also read this:

http://www.barbellmedicine.com/potpourri/584/

Post: #17

(03-26-2015 10:59 AM)Blackliter Wrote:  Thanks for the info guys. Background info, 5'9'' 135lbs vegetarian (been for life), been going to gym now for 2 months. I down double protein shakes, and weight gainer. Trying to up food intake. cereal for breakfast with whey protein in it, buffet lunch, and dinner at chipotle/moes/ homemade meal of beans.
I need to step up breakfast amount, what else would you add?

Getting bench up to 185lb is going to take forever, definitely need to hit arms more. wrist size is 6.7''.

Double protein shakes? E.g. you're hitting 60g of protein at a time? I'd probably suggest that you space them out dude, especially if you're taking it with water. As a vegetarian, it will be very hard to hit your macros and you're already quite skinny. I'd suggest 4 shakes a day (To hit 120G of protein) and only take them with water after you lift. Supplement with Tofu and soy milk.

Lower body strength will quickly 'increase' as you do more training as your legs were strong as fuck to begin with you just need to get used to the actual form and you'll be lifting a lot more.

My example was that first time I did a leg press I was doing 80KG, the trainer of the gym saw my legs and told me I should be able to do 200KG with that leg mass (played basketball, rugby). Sure enough, within 2 weeks and no obvious gains I was pressing 200kg.

Upper body is a bit different and you're more likely to hit your max quicker.

So.. keep doing what you're doing. I'm not proponent of doing muscle exercises every day. Rest builds muscle, so if you're smashing your upper body and then doing chinups up the next day then you might not be making your best possible gains.

Further, if you can, get a spotter and work on mixing up your weight routine with some heavy as fuck reps especially on the bench press. Even if you need a hand getting the weight up, when you're coming down slowly and steadily you will build your stabilisers and they will help immensely.

Good luck man.

Post: #18

(03-24-2015 01:12 PM)Blackliter Wrote:  I've been doing starting strength for awhile now. my squats and deadlift has been steadily increasing whereas my bench press and dumbell exercises have barely increased 5-10lb. If I add another 5lb I fail at the 4th or 5th rep depending on the day.

I've finally realized my arms are way weaker than what they should be and I need them to catch up to the rest of my body first. Any recommendations on how I should go about it?

Only constraint is I go to the gym every other day. Don't have time for everyday workout. I'm at 25lb dumbells, i typically fail at 1st/2nd set for 30lb.
And I'm at 105lb bench press, I fail at 5th rep first set. I have friends spot.

Maybe just try decreasing the weight and doing 3 sets of 8-10 reps for a while until you build up some more basic strength. Then go back down to the 5-rep schemes. I imagine the problem is you need to build some basic structural strength before you can really take on those 5X5s.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #19

I agree with what's been said above. SS isn't designed to bring up your arms, at 5'9" 135 you should focus on eating and gaining strength in the big basic lifts, etc.

If you do want to throw in some dedicated bicep training, I like this method: https://www.t-nation.com/training/revers...ypertrophy

My feeling is you can do a couple of sets of curls at the end of your workout without hindering your recovery or detracting from the primary lifts. If you are used to heavy squats and deadlifts, bicep curls just don't seem hard--you get a little burn in your arms, that's all.

Finally, I've never liked to them, but I have to admit that friends who have built bigger arms than me have done a lot of preacher curls.

Post: #20

Arms were meant to translate the strength from the Torso's main muscles. At 6'4", I completely cut out arms until I got over 225.. why waste the energy when the rest of you isn't strong yet? Arms will be forced to get stronger when your torso does. When you do hit arms, hit them hard... total exhaustion, drop sets, super sets, etc....

I've had arm days that were as exhausting as leg days.

Post: #21

I would stick to the 6 to 10 rep range for upper body (to start out with) occasionally doing 20 rep sets of certain exercises, such as snatch grip behind the neck strict press, and make a pet lift out of the handstand pushup to hit at home.

I think it's more important to be consistent (and frequent) with upper body lifts as opposed to lower body lifts, because getting a decent bench or overhead press takes way more time than getting a decent deadlift or squat.

Post: #22

the gaining process is slow for me being a vegetarian. Just started using 30lb dumbells without failing. Bench hit 105 for 2 sets 5 reps no fail now.
I've added in a couple arm exercises after the squat and bench. dips, shoulder press, preacher curls, and calf raises.

squat is now at 155lb

Post: #23

(03-24-2015 02:50 PM)Spike Wrote:  How many reps do you curl? I've been doing no more than 8 reps per set. This is supposed to be optimal for muscle growth.
If you can make it to 8 reps with good form, increase with the smallest amount of weight and build up to 8 reps again. I feel I'm growing again for the first time in years with this system. I use it for all exercises.

Fuck one rep maxes.

When I was conditioning for my schools rugby team, we did something similar to starting strength. When I had trouble advancing with my arms, I started doing sets of 8 reps- then 4- then 2 at max weight and increasing each time.

Id agree that 888 is better overall- but lowering reps helped my arms and chest catch up to the rest

Post: #24

Liter, are you throwing in any chin ups, pull ups, dips or push ups? I think these are super underrated, but for a guy like you they can be very beneficial, especially if you are able to eventually add weight to the first three exercises I mentioned.

Post: #25

Dumb bell press.

I could do a 500 lb leg press and a 50 lb max dB press (two 25s)

I have a similar inclination for everything but arms and chest, you'll slightly catch up, just stick with it. I'm at a 120 lb DB press now and I still have a long way to go