Post: #1

I think we needed a master thread for people that want to discuss the intricacies of the books without bothering the show-only people.

Obviously discussions about the show are also welcome on this thread, especially when it comes to scenes in the show that could mean something for the future of the books.

All hail lord Preston Jacobs! The oracle of Planetos!

Post: #2

Well, for a start ... anyone think Bran's going to warg a dragon at some future point?

Incidentally, I've got a feeling his whole plotline might actually be a seduction to the Dark Side sort of thing - it's not even really clear whether the "fire" side is good, or whether the "ice" side is evil. Any thoughts?

Post: #3

Wild speculation on my part but I get the feeling with all the foreshadowing that the end ruler of the kingdoms will basically be Tyrion and someone on the throne as a symbol...maybe Arya?

It seems like the story will end up with the major power players annhilating each other and against the white walker threat.

All this is assuming George R.R. Martin doesn't keel over before he irons out the plotline.

Post: #4

Is the fourth book (Feast) worth the read?

I heard it's just boring politics and a filler/recovery period between the action of the third and fifth books.

Post: #5

How many books are there supposed to be total? What number book is this current season (season 5 I think?) supposed to correspond to?

Post: #6

^ The video I posted up there talks about just that. The 4th book seems like a really boring book when you first read it, but in fact if you read it carefully it has clues about some really masterful secret shit in the story.

On the subject of Bran, it has been made very obvious that he will warg a Dragon, and in the world of Ice and Fire I think that means that he WONT warg a dragon. I think that it is interesting though that apparently the whole series was supposed to be from just Bran's POV originally. I don't know how that would have worked out. Either way Bran is extremely important.

I don't think it will be Fire vs Ice necessarily. In fact I think that Fire and Ice need to be in balance and the real threat is actually from the Krakken/Drowned God.

But who knows..."What is dead may never die, but rises harder and stronger" sounds a lot like the Others' wights to me.

Post: #7

(04-13-2015 08:43 PM)Nascimento Wrote:  Is the fourth book (Feast) worth the read?

I heard it's just boring politics and a filler/recovery period between the action of the third and fifth books.

Well it depends on what you expect from the book. If you were comparing it to the third book which is very action packed then you may be disappointed as Feast For Crows has little action. That being said a lot of important or at least seemingly important events happen. If you are going to read the series then you cant really skip this book and then still know whats going on.
I liked most of the story character arcs in this book especially the Cersei chapters but the Brienne story arc is pretty pointless and doesn’t get interesting till her final chapter. Like all song of ice and fire books there is an immense amount of detail that you will probably miss the first time you read it. For example I didn’t notice the implications of Sam’s last conversation in the book till the second time I read it.
The annoying thing about these last two books George RR Martin has written is that they both end in cliffhangers for multiple characters. Things are really getting interesting by the end of Dance With Dragons but the book just finishes suddenly without really giving a satisfying end, at least till the next book.

Post: #8

I liked AFFC much better than ADWD because I loved every second of being inside Cersei's psychotic little head. That, and I am really big on the Greyjoys (it's a little like being a fan of the Seattle Supersonics if you're into the show).

I really do think AFFC was necessary to provide fallout and ramifications across the seven kingdoms after the war of the five kings. Also it has this bit of genius from Jaime's POV

"How much can a crown be worth when a crow can dine upon a King?"

Which one out of Jaime Lannister/Jon Snow would you guys rather see being Azor Ahai reborn? I've heard convincing arguments both ways and they're my two favorite characters so I don't mind one way or the other.

Post: #9

I hope it's true that Lady Stoneheart isn't going to be in the series.

I'd had enough of Catelyn as it was.

If it's true that Jon wasn't Ned's son but his nephew, that made her be a cunt to Jon Snow all those years for no reason.

Post: #10

I am at a turning point. I read the first three books, never watched the show. I have feast for crows, but now Im starting to realize that the show will finish much sooner than the books will end.

I can keep reading and not watch the show or drop the books (which may take forever to see book 6 and 7) and start the show from season 1, which gives me the benefit of not spoiling the new seasons of the show since I never read too far aheasd.

I dont think i can watch and read at the same time. It just wouldnt feel congruent and takes up a shitload of time. What to do...

Post: #11

Same here. Catelyn is the worst character in the series (and in all of fiction).

Post: #12

@iamdegaussed
The books show the story of Robb through catelyn's eyes. I wouldn't say she was very boring in the books, since she was a mirror to Robb. Also, she died as soon as Robb died so you never really have to focus on her individually.

By the way, Sansa probably takes the cake for being the most boring character in the books.

Post: #13

(04-14-2015 02:08 AM)Silver Wrote:  By the way, Sansa probably takes the cake for being the most boring character in the books.

I kind of get where Martin is going with having a Sansa like character in his book. He has a habit of turning tropes on their head. If Sansa were written by a lesser author she'd be grrl power'ing her way out of everything through her sass and smarts.

Instead Sansa's portrayal is more realistic as this helpless and whiny teenage girl in way over her head and threatened with death at every turn until a master manipulator exerts his will that saves her. She's just another piece to be moved around by others. Helpless and confused.

Martin is actually pretty red pill about a lot.

Post: #14

I always thought Martin was red pill. Probably because of his historic knowledge.

Post: #15

Red pill-ism aside, I'm holding out for Arya to be the real winner.

A nine year old with a disturbingly high kill count - she's taken fencing lessons from fucking Afro Thunder, gets her first kill while escaping a massacre in which dozens of trained, experienced soldiers get killed, survived walking through a war zone, conned an assassin into taking out a number of armed guards, teamed up with her most hated rival, killed the guy who tortured and killed her friends, then left the Hound to die a slow painful death, traveled halfway around the world by scaring the shit out of a ship full of sailors, became the apprentice to an assassin, then proceeded to participate in the mockery of her own sisters rape and murder before taking another name off her list by seducing a pedophile (for those of you who haven't read the preview chapter from the next book), and at night she wargs into a direwolf that's hunting Lannister and Frey soldiers for sport with a wolfpack hundreds strong.

She's creatin' murders to kill haters on two continents. Fuck your dragons and your dwarves, this bitch is in it to win it just so she can watch everyone else get fucked up.

Post: #16

(04-13-2015 08:43 PM)Nascimento Wrote:  Is the fourth book (Feast) worth the read?

I heard it's just boring politics and a filler/recovery period between the action of the third and fifth books.

Not in my opinion. It's the book that made me give up on the books.

I thought the first book was the best. Since then it's gone steadily downhill. I think he is drawing it out as long as possible to maximize his profits. Good for his bottom line but it hurts the quality of the books.

Post: #17

Yeah Osiris, she's my favorite little Psychopath.

My favorite character is still Petyr Baelish, mainly because he is the true young beta to Machiavellian alpha story a lot of the guys on here can relate to. He also reminds me of one of my best mates, especially the way Aiden Gillen portrays him on the show. A sneaky little fucker with some deep, dark goals.

In terms of POV characters though, I think that Jaime and Theon are the best/ have the best arc.

Have you guys gone through all the videos from the channel I posted in my OP? A few of the guys theories are out there, but they are all very entertaining and he seems like a guy feminists don't like very much, and so I like him.

I find his theories on the relation between dragons/maesters/septons/the ironborn [Harrenhall] very interesting.

Post: #18

(04-13-2015 08:43 PM)Nascimento Wrote:  Is the fourth book (Feast) worth the read?

I heard it's just boring politics and a filler/recovery period between the action of the third and fifth books.

Personally Feast was my favorite book. I liked all the lying backroom dealing politics. I also like how certain people's plans just blew up in their faces in it.

Post: #19

(04-14-2015 09:44 PM)Osiris Wrote:  Red pill-ism aside, I'm holding out for Arya to be the real winner.

A nine year old with a disturbingly high kill count - she's taken fencing lessons from fucking Afro Thunder, gets her first kill while escaping a massacre in which dozens of trained, experienced soldiers get killed, survived walking through a war zone, conned an assassin into taking out a number of armed guards, teamed up with her most hated rival, killed the guy who tortured and killed her friends, then left the Hound to die a slow painful death,

The hound is not dead. I am guessing he comes back to put down his undead brother.

Quote: traveled halfway around the world by scaring the shit out of a ship full of sailors, became the apprentice to an assassin, then proceeded to participate in the mockery of her own sisters rape and murder before taking another name off her list by seducing a pedophile (for those of you who haven't read the preview chapter from the next book), and at night she wargs into a direwolf that's hunting Lannister and Frey soldiers for sport with a wolfpack hundreds strong.

She's creatin' murders to kill haters on two continents. Fuck your dragons and your dwarves, this bitch is in it to win it just so she can watch everyone else get fucked up.

I haven't read all of the preview chapters, but yeah that doesn't really surprise me. I am guessing she is all over the last 2 books given how much of the first 5 books focused on her.

I really need to reread the first five books because I have forgotten so much of everything

Post: #20

I just watched all of the dornish plan videos in the first post. I believe a lot of it. Quentyn martel is definitely still alive and likely stole a dragon, he is not the burned man, he never smiles, the burned man at the end of book 5 smiled when he died because the deception was complete with his death and he succeeded. The rest of it, I am not so sure. It is essentially saying that illirio and doran martell are the 2 people playing the game of thrones, I always pictured littlefinger and varys playing the game of thrones.

The final 2 books will clear up a lot of this.

Post: #21

I think Littlefinger is doing something bigger than just the Game of Thrones. It has to do with Harrenhall. That dude has videos on the "Littlefinger Debt Scheme" as well that you should look into.

I definitely think that Harrenhall is very important. Remember that the guy who built it was an Ironborn, who used to rule the Riverlands as well as the Iron Islands at that time. There was also some blood magic involved in building the place, and Lady Lothston who used to own it a few generations before our first book starts was known to bathe in blood in the baths there to stay young [sounds like an Other? or Roose Bolton?]

The famous Jaime-Brienne scene in the baths actually happens in those same baths. Roose Bolton, who is related to blood and leeching burns some old secret book in Harrenhall. The Lothsons seem to be related to the Whent's who gained Harrenhall after Lady Lothston went crazy and died. Catelyn Tully's mother was a Whent, and so Sansa carries that blood through the maternal line. So Littlefinger is interested in Sansa because of her connection to Harrenhall through the female line.

The female blood line seems to be very important everywhere. Look at House Baratheon for example. The House starts when Orys Baratheon, a bastard half-brother of Aegon the Conqueror kills the Storm King of House Durrandon and marries his daughter. House Durrandon apparently started when a guy from the age of heroes, Durran Godsgried, married the daughter of the Sea god and wind goddess. So Durrandons have divine blood from the female line, and the Baratheon's inherit that blood through the female line. Now the only existing Baratheon is Shireen, and so that blood will continue through the female line again. So SHireen isn't dying anytime soon.

Now realize that Aegon's conquest actually happened because this Storm King actually asked for his help to get rid of the scourge of the Ironborn at Harrenhall. So everything seems to come down to a battle between the Drowned God and the Storm/Wind God or the Drowned God and Fire/Dragon Magic. Do not underestimate the Krakken.

More on the female line: look at the story beyond the Wall.

First the Night's King: He was a fearless warrior named the thirteenth Lord Commander of the Night's Watch. Later, he fell in love with a woman "with skin as white as the moon and eyes like blue stars". He chased her and loved her though "her skin was cold as ice", and when he gave his seed to her he gave his soul as well.

Craster: He is the son of a man of the Night's Watch who is seduced by a wildling woman. Craster's sons make up either all or atleast some faction of the Others. So the Others seem to be related through the female line somehow, or have something to do with mysterious female seduction.

Finally look at Rheagar's connection to Harrenhall. He conspires with one of his kingsguard, Ser Oswell Whent, who is the brother of the then Lord Whent to host the Tourney of Harrenhall. Now there are 100 things going on at this tourney so I won't talk about all of them, but Rheagar is definitely trying to use some magic and fulfill some prophecy at Harrenhall. Oswell Whent is also one of the 3 Kingsguard who are present at the Tower of Joy.

Now I am 99% convinced that Oswell Whent is still alive! Who is he? Oswell Kettleblack, who is in the service of fucking Littlefinger. So more Harrenhall connections there.

I kind of rambled there but the videos are clearer.

Post: #22

What's the scoop on Benjen Stark?

Post: #23

I don't think he is some secret character. I think that Martin had said that in the new book we will go farther north than any book so far, so I was kind of hoping that meant we would get a Benjen Stark POV in the Lands of Always Winter. He has also said there would be no new POVs however. Now the prologue and epilogue don't count under this. We already know that the prologue is going to be a Jeyne Westerling chapter, and will include Brendyn Tully. I think the Epilogue of Winds of Winter seems too late to finally introduce us to the Others via Benjen. Maybe we will get a view of Benjen and the far North through Bran and the Weirwoods.

Post: #24

(04-13-2015 08:43 PM)Nascimento Wrote:  Is the fourth book (Feast) worth the read?

I heard it's just boring politics and a filler/recovery period between the action of the third and fifth books.

I won't try to convince you to read it or not, some people go for action in books, others like the political scheming and psychological windows opened in aFFC. However, to fully get the story, you don't want to leave out an entire book. You might find Dorne to be quite interesting (my handle notwithstanding).

I think a lot of the AFFC hate came during initial publication. All the fan favorites were omitted for a new cast of characters and POVs. When read in conjunction with ADWD, I believe AFFC would a much more favorable reputation.

The link is a reading order that allows you to follow the story throughout Westeros and Essos chronologically by reading AFFC and ADWD together. I suggest giving it a shot. chapter order

Post: #25

He rips apart the 2nd episode and tells you why changes could be fine, but these changes make no logical sense. Exactly what I had said. It's almost like this guy is actually me....hmmm