Post: #1

Woman failed to protect her children from abuse, judge says

Quote:In December 2006, Tondalo Hall’s boyfriend pled guilty to breaking the ribs and femur of their 3-month-old daughter. For his crime, Robert Braxton Jr. servedtwo years in prison.

In court, prosecutors presented no evidence that Hall herself had harmed the child. But for failing to intervene against Braxton’s abuse, Hall was sentenced to 30 years behind bars.

Her tough sentence was meted out despite evidence that Braxton had also been violently abusing her. In statements to authorities in and out of court, and in a recent interview with BuzzFeed News, Hall described Braxton choking her, punching her, throwing things at her, and verbally assaulting her. Even the judge who sentenced her said that during her testimony, Hall seemed to fear her boyfriend.

Hall is one of 28 mothers in 11 states who a recent BuzzFeed News investigationfound were sentenced to 10 years or more for failing to protect their children. In every one of these cases, there was evidence the mother herself had been violently abused by the man. Hall is one of three cases BuzzFeed News found in which the mother got a longer sentencethan the man who actually abused the child.

Let me be on record saying that I DO NOT support domestic abuse in anyway, shape, or form, and that the boyfriends sentence should of have been longer. But it sends a powerful message the selfish nature of many women who go off of 'gina tingles choosing the father of their children and willingly put them in harms way and states are finally starting to hold them accountable for it. Hooray Oklahoma.

Post: #2

(07-25-2015 12:09 PM)MdWanderer Wrote:  Let me be on record saying that I DO NOT support domestic abuse in anyway, shape, or form, and that the boyfriends sentence should of have been longer. But it sends a powerful message the selfish nature of many women who go off of 'gina tingles choosing the father of their children and willingly put them in harms way and states are finally starting to hold them accountable for it. Hooray Oklahoma.

I support the idea that mothers need to protect their children, but I don't support a law that says, "If your husband / boyfriend abuses your children, you have to report him to the police."

Men and women are supposed to stand together without using the power of the state to bully each other into good behavior, and this law just further divides the sexes into a gender war.

Post: #3

@MmX

Elaborate? How does a man and woman stand togerher when one is abusing kids?

If your babies mama abused your kid would you NOT report her?

Post: #4

There are men out there with problems. They should not be in a room with kids nor should they become a father. If they abuse the kids, act violent against the women, they should be punished. And some men become like that after losing their job, become an alcoholic or some other issues. In this case I support the idea that the women leave the man.

On the other hand I've seen cases where you can tell the girl: This is not a good guy, he will do you no good. Will she listen? No. Because her mind is brainwashed. She think such a guy is manly and interesting. She make a bad choice. In the best case she will be a single mom, in the worst one, she go to jail like this case.
There are women out there that turn the life of a man into hell. And then there are women out their with a strange attitude for the wrong men. Still I don't support domestic violence or the abuse of kids. Some people do the wrong choices in life. Some will suffer a lot from this...

Post: #5

Isn't this just incentive to report men? A woman who hears this story thinking well he doesn't hit me or the children but he raises his voice. I better report him.

Post: #6

(07-25-2015 01:40 PM)Parzival Wrote:  There are men out there with problems. They should not be in a room with kids nor should they become a father. If they abuse the kids, act violent against the women, they should be punished. And some men become like that after losing their job, become an alcoholic or some other issues. In this case I support the idea that the women leave the man.

There are women out there who date known murderers and child molesters and willingly bring them around their children. Women are stubborn when it comes to who they are attracted to and thats their choice, but it becomes an issue when said boyfriend is abusing her kids. Children are innocent and have no control over who they surround themselves with. I do support the state intervening in this case. And granted there are things that government should not involve themselves with but there are some where it should. If that's not the case, then what's the point of having laws? Police? Military?

Post: #7

(07-25-2015 12:18 PM)MMX2010 Wrote:  

(07-25-2015 12:09 PM)MdWanderer Wrote:  Let me be on record saying that I DO NOT support domestic abuse in anyway, shape, or form, and that the boyfriends sentence should of have been longer. But it sends a powerful message the selfish nature of many women who go off of 'gina tingles choosing the father of their children and willingly put them in harms way and states are finally starting to hold them accountable for it. Hooray Oklahoma.

I support the idea that mothers need to protect their children, but I don't support a law that says, "If your husband / boyfriend abuses your children, you have to report him to the police."

Men and women are supposed to stand together without using the power of the state to bully each other into good behavior, and this law just further divides the sexes into a gender war.

I agree the state should not rule the home. But when it comes to "boyfriends" unrelated to children, the statistics point to trouble. When a woman brings a stranger into the home around kids, it should at least be something the state makes a note of when deciding a case.

This is because "husband" and "boyfriend" are two dramatically different things when it comes to child abuse. Kids of single parents are more likely to witness domestic violence (source) and child abuse is often linked to live-in (non-related) lovers (one of many sources here).

Also, I would recommend every do a Google search for "child abuse mom's boyfriend" (no quotes) and see the massive list of news articles that come up. Just last week in Baltimore we had the story about a boyfriend who killed a kid because he ate too much birthday cake. These stories are incredibly commonplace but -- golly gee! -- the media just never seems to recognize a pattern here.

If the reverse were happening -- if men were bringing women into their homes and letting them murder and beat the shit out of their kids -- the White House would be passing 50 different laws against this. I'll bet co-habitation with kids in the house would be illegal at this point if that was happening.

Anyway, what you see with this story is the recognition of these stats and stories. In other words, this judge is saying: You don't let your kids talk to strange men in the 7-Eleven -- why would you feel comfortable bringing one into the house? Although the sentencing disparity is unfair, I agree with his basic point. So do the numbers.

Post: #8

(07-25-2015 02:00 PM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:  Anyway, what you see with this story is the recognition of these stats and stories. In other words, this judge is saying: You don't let your kids talk to strange men in the 7-Eleven -- why would you feel comfortable bringing one into the house? Although the sentencing disparity is unfair, I agree with his basic point. So do the numbers.

I agree with this, but I also agree with eljeffster's point here, "Isn't this just incentive to report men? A woman who hears this story thinking well he doesn't hit me or the children but he raises his voice. I better report him."

In a small town of less than about 500 people, the entire neighborhood would know that he's an abusive asshole, and he would "mysteriously" disappear (not murder, just ostracism from the town) OR he would be beaten up and warned not to abuse his children again.

But in a large area, like a state or country, using laws to get women to protect their children is more likely to cause more harm than good. And I think doxxing the mother is a better solution, although I think many will disagree with me on that one.

Post: #9

(07-25-2015 12:09 PM)MdWanderer Wrote:  Woman failed to protect her children from abuse, judge says

Quote:In December 2006, Tondalo Hall’s boyfriend pled guilty to breaking the ribs and femur of their 3-month-old daughter. For his crime, Robert Braxton Jr. servedtwo years in prison.

In court, prosecutors presented no evidence that Hall herself had harmed the child. But for failing to intervene against Braxton’s abuse, Hall was sentenced to 30 years behind bars.

Her tough sentence was meted out despite evidence that Braxton had also been violently abusing her. In statements to authorities in and out of court, and in a recent interview with BuzzFeed News, Hall described Braxton choking her, punching her, throwing things at her, and verbally assaulting her. Even the judge who sentenced her said that during her testimony, Hall seemed to fear her boyfriend.

Hall is one of 28 mothers in 11 states who a recent BuzzFeed News investigationfound were sentenced to 10 years or more for failing to protect their children. In every one of these cases, there was evidence the mother herself had been violently abused by the man. Hall is one of three cases BuzzFeed News found in which the mother got a longer sentencethan the man who actually abused the child.

Let me be on record saying that I DO NOT support domestic abuse in anyway, shape, or form, and that the boyfriends sentence should of have been longer. But it sends a powerful message the selfish nature of many women who go off of 'gina tingles choosing the father of their children and willingly put them in harms way and states are finally starting to hold them accountable for it. Hooray Oklahoma.

I'm going to go way out on a limb here and say that SOMETHING they're not telling us in this story.

We know there is a massive sentencing disparity (huge enough to dwarf the whole black/white sentencing disparity). And it's not favor of men either. There is something more to the story.

Post: #10

This is 30 years for being a loser. Many murderers don't get 30 years. I think this sentence is dumbfoundingly ridiculous.

(07-25-2015 02:00 PM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:  

(07-25-2015 12:18 PM)MMX2010 Wrote:  

(07-25-2015 12:09 PM)MdWanderer Wrote:  Let me be on record saying that I DO NOT support domestic abuse in anyway, shape, or form, and that the boyfriends sentence should of have been longer. But it sends a powerful message the selfish nature of many women who go off of 'gina tingles choosing the father of their children and willingly put them in harms way and states are finally starting to hold them accountable for it. Hooray Oklahoma.

I support the idea that mothers need to protect their children, but I don't support a law that says, "If your husband / boyfriend abuses your children, you have to report him to the police."

Men and women are supposed to stand together without using the power of the state to bully each other into good behavior, and this law just further divides the sexes into a gender war.

I agree the state should not rule the home. But when it comes to "boyfriends" unrelated to children, the statistics point to trouble. When a woman brings a stranger into the home around kids, it should at least be something the state makes a note of when deciding a case.

The state rules the home the minute it writes a welfare check for these dysfunctional people.

Post: #11

Yes, this story isn't adding up whatsoever. But it is in how the media chooses to portray this story. See here and any movie on Lifetime.

As usual, the story is being sold as: bad man v. woman and children. A bad man mercilessly beat his child and the mother. The two victims versus an abuser. A terribly Republican, misogynistic state government that refused to aid a battered woman and then had the patriarchal audacity to prosecute her -- the victim! -- for child abuse. Duh, she was the victim, right?

But it only looks that way when you look at it from the mother's perspective. When you look at it from the child's perspective -- the most important perspective -- there are two bad actors. At least one is an actual abuser, the other at best a passive onlooker -- a person who should know better. A person who should grab a can of WD40, a lighter and threaten Armageddon when somebody puts a hand on their child. The children know their mother allowed them to be beaten. Remind me, what was the name of the child, either one of them? Do these props get at least an @ mention, or a hashtag? The children don't even get mentioned until the end, when the article describes the relationship of the children to the woman.

The problem with articles like these is that they are framed in such a way that absolve women completely of the duty to change. They get us to accept the form of the argument: that society (men) fail these desperate women, who are trapped in abusive relationships that they don't want. Women instinctively believe this, because they believe, too, that they are victims of relationships they don't want -- if only they had a second chance, too, they would get it all right.

I wholeheartedly disagree -- with the facts presented -- of 30 years in prison for this particular situation, but it doesn't change the fact that irrespective of what society does, this woman still is a parent that failed her children: she allowed them to be beaten by a man. She failed. Not society, but her. We all know the man is a worthless scumbag, as is any man willfully breaks a child's leg. Lock him up, throw away the key -- this wouldn't be a Buzzfeed story if a man got 30 years for beating kid, regardless of how insanely disproportionate the sentence is for the crime.

But she isn't a passive victim here, life isn't woman/children v. men. Here, it is two bad actors and helpless victims, the children. She stuck around until the state started to intervene. Did she suddenly realize that child abuse was wrong then? Or did she start to worry that she might be held accountable for what is happening in the relationship? It is too easy to say she should have left, because relationships work until they don't. Yes, also saying she was a terrified victim waiting for help is also a cop out. Relationships are bi-directional, and this worked for both her and the man. This is why these sorts of situations are so terrible.

Anybody read the actual court documents of this situation? The article suggests prosecutorial malice as one of the reasons that the woman received such a harsh sentence, so it would interesting to see what actually happened.

Post: #12

(07-25-2015 02:00 PM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:  This is because "husband" father and "boyfriend" the guy the mother is fucking this week/month are two dramatically different things when it comes to child abuse.

FIFY.

Post: #13

(07-25-2015 12:09 PM)MdWanderer Wrote:  Hall described Braxton choking her, punching her, throwing things at her, and verbally assaulting her. Even the judge who sentenced her said that during her testimony, Hall seemed to fear her boyfriend.

Sounds like some good fucking sex.