Post: #1

Perusing the web I have just found this Arab forum, with a load of old Arab wisdom from the ages regarding women, marriage and females in general. Below some highlights, the link is at the bottom.

"Struggles Of A Muslim Man Living In The West"

Quote:IbnSina, on 15 Jun 2015 - 11:27 PM, said:

Salam Aleikum brothers and sisters.

I have an issue that I think the opinion and advice from you guys could help me with.

Basically I've reached a point where I want to get married but It seems to be a lot harder than I thought it would, now it is of course not an easy thing no matter what, but because of where I live it makes it further problematic.

I don't know where to start... but I think some background story is necessary.
I am currently a 26 year old muslim man, born and raised in a European country with parents from Iran. I've lived in this western country my entire life but alhamdullilah when I was around 20 years old I started to study my religion and make a intellectual choice to practice Islam seriously and not just because my parents were muslim... and alhamdullilah I never made anything super stupid when I was in my teens because I've always had patience and self-discipline.

Now since my parents and me never lived in like areas with a lot of immigrants, which in this particular country are muslim, we never got that network of muslim people around us. I grew up with" ethnically local" friends and they are if not all atheists/agnostics.

I guess normally when you as a muslim want to get married, it seems to be the word of mouth that gets muslims connected, but since I don't have any network of muslim friends and neither my parents it makes that way pretty much impossible since no one wants to meet some one when they and their family are total strangers.

Even when we tried thru the local mosque it didn't really give anything and I think it is because in general Iranian and Arab people don't like each other. Personally I really don't care about ethnicity, the way I see it is that when you are a muslim, you are primary a muslim and then everything ells, even before you are a man or a woman you are a muslim, even before being human.

Anyhow, I've meet like 4 different muslim women which were recommended to me by my mother which were in turn recommended to her by someone ells.
I talked to them and they do not seem to take their religion very seriously and unfortunately they have all had boyfriends in the past, like in a not halal kind of way.

Now for someone living in the west it might not be a big deal, but since I have alhamdulillah managed to keep my virginity I feel like it is unjust towards me to have to marry someone who did not manage to keep theirs. I really don't expect more from my future wife than I expect from myself.

But from my understanding the muslim sisters that takes their religion seriously here in this country are basically all Arab and they don't want to associate themselves with Iranians, thus the ones that are recommended to me and my mother are the ones that for whatever reason was "rejected" by the others.

From a like academical/work point of view I really have not given anyone any reason to why they should doubt me. Alhamdulillah I work as an engineer for a big multinational company where I get to travel the world and alhamdullilah it gives me a very good economy. I also weight lift a lot and train martial arts to stay in shape, especially since it is basically my only outlet of frustration and testosterone sadly enough. Basically I have my stuff together, I don't drink, smoke, gamble, fool around, eat non-halal, etc.
In some ways I feel almost betrayed and humiliated by the muslim community...

I really do not know what to do at this point, but for a man to maintain his virginity at this age living in a western country with western friends doing western stuff... it is very very very hard. Now I have reached a point where this situation is starting to affect my mood, I carry like a lot of built up frustration and generally becoming very bitter and angry at everything to the point where it is affecting my work and family.

In the past I could keep it in check but now It is going downhill and I knew this would eventually happen since living in a deeper emotional and physical solitude for too long renders you bitter, and when you are bitter for too long you start to become hateful and then it is just a matter of time before you become evil.. and I don't want to reach that point.

I mean I live in a country with like lowest age of sexual debut where the minimum legal age for sex is 15 years old. In this country I am constantly bombarded and provoked by things that makes men only think of one thing, no matter where I look, and even when I am with my friends some times women hit on me but... alhamdulillah I am patient and I have discipline.

At this point I don't really know what to do, I think the only option I have left is to actually make direct contact with muslim women myself.
I use to out of respect and out of fear try to avoid contacting women in general because I do not want my patience and discipline to waver in case the woman initiates some thing.

I really do not have any social problems or problems with my confidence. Normally when I tell some one that I am a virgin and I try to avoid like contacting woman they think that means I am socially handicapped or something, which is really not the case.

I dont really know if having contact directly with muslim women is a great idea but if I were to do it how do you contact someone you see and know is muslim, lets say she wears a hijab, without being disrespectful or acting "unmuslim-like"?

I really do not see any other option than that at this point where the "normal" ways to get to learn muslim women with intention to get married have more or less failed.

I'm really sorry for this long post but at this point I feel like living in this situation is like balancing on a sword, if I go to much to one side I will fall on it. On one side I have the option of going against my principles and on the other side I have the option of losing my sanity. Since I am a man of principles and I man of my word I cannot break my principles so for me I am currently tilting dangerously close to losing my sanity. InshaAllah this Ramadan will help me.

Anyways I would very much appreciate your opinion and advice on this subject/issue as I assume most of you are young muslims living in the west aswell.

Fi amanillah, with regards
IbnSina

He continues in the second page

Quote:Brother my expectations of my future wife is not that far fetched or unrealistic, in short:
She must be a practicing shia muslim, preferably with hijab.
She must be a person that makes her own intellectual decisions.
She must be virgin.
She must be younger than me.
She does not make me puke when I look at her.

Quote:Is it really unreasonable for me to ask for someone like me?
What kind of state have we come to when a virgin muslim man cannot ask for the hand of a virgin muslim woman...

Now some responses

A womyn:

Quote:You place too much emphasis on your wife being a virgin, there is nothing wrong with divorced women and you being a virgin while she not being one does not in and of itself make you better or more pious than her. MashaAllah it is wonderful that you have maintained yours, but that is not the one thing you should look at when looking for a wife... there are so many more important criteria to look at.

Arab men:

Quote:Go khalil! you go marry a non virgin. Go kiss her mouth an feel her skin ..... Then remember another man has put his parts there.

Quote:I will not marry someone who has given their body to someone else.

For me, it is a deal breaker and it will take A LOT of positive attributes to make up for it and even If I would marry her, It would always be on my mind when I am with her, like a cancer at the back of my head ruining all moments which would otherwise be good.

Quote:The poor man just desires a women like himself. Just because he chooses not to marry a non virgin or a divorce does not mean he condemns them or despises them. They are not his preference, it's simple as that. You start attacking the poor guy and interpreting him the wrong way. I don't want to marry a divorcee no matter how religious she is, it's my choice.

Quote:Brother, the only thing in life you will get for free is death.
Everything ells costs effort but all things cost time, so everything but time and death are in this life negotiable.

Quote:But bro in your frustration you might end up with a woman who is not as good as you deserve. And believe me after marriage there is no guarantee she will put out all the time either and in western countries u are trapped in a loveless marriage then. if it's a legally registered marriage the court lawyer battles will grind you down, don't assume just because she is ostentatiously pious she will automatically be a good wife too.btw be very careful who u marry as financially it can be a disaster if it leads to divorce consider prenup but even that is no guarantee, when I was younger I used to think like you brother but now at almost 36 I'm very jaded

Quote:I can tell you that what most brothers in your situation end up doing is going 'back home' to find someone.

This might be your best option at this point.

Quote:Brother I do pray for whatever happens to me will make me a better muslim and If that means marrying someone who has lost their virginity... then I pray for the stomach twisting I have from the thought of it to stop. To be with someone who at one point had given their love and body to another man, it makes my blood boil even from thinking of it...
It is like taking a plate from the end of the conveyor belt of sushi who is already partly eaten by someone and the reason for that is because the plate at one point decided to position itself on a conveyor belt.

Quote:Brother, in my opinion, the best option for you is to return to Iran or the country your family is from, and find a good woman related to your family, etc cousin, family friend. I myself live in a western country Australia and lived their since I was 3 years old till now, however when I chose to get married i flew back to my country which im currently still in got married to my cousin which turned out to be the best decision of my life ,and would never trade her for anything or anyone because she is the definition of beauty. And it has been 7 months now happily married.

The women in western countries have learnt the western culture and most of them have forgotten islam or dont practice it and those that practice islam is very hard to find them.

Quote:really, so muslim women in the West aren't good enough?

Quote:Many Western raised ones are more trouble than they are worth. It's just easier to find better people overseas.

Feminist:

Quote:Magma, I really hope you're being sarcastic, otherwise your opinion is offensive and stinks. I don't even know why I bother sometimes, I really don't.

Quote:I'm not really giving an opinion or accusation. It's an observation, and I have seen it before. People attempt to reach out to those also born/raised in the West, but struggle to find somebody suitable (for a variety of reasons), so most end up seeking a "local" person from the country of their ancestors, who usually fit the criteria better. That's not an opinion, that's a fact.

Arab Red Piller:

Quote:I've experienced many of the same issues. I've run into many girls with similar mindsets. Their focus is themselves, their education, their job, their friends, their family, their community, their interests, and their life. And being uncompromising on virtually all of them.

We need to be honest with ourselves. In this modern age, especially in developed nations, women need men less and less. More are self-sufficient than ever before, and they no longer need men for the total support, protection, or financial security that man has given his wife for millennia. In that sense, men have almost become a burden, and relationships today form only out of ease or convenience, and not through struggling conviction.

In that sense, marriage becomes unappealing. It is perceived as an end to the beautiful single life they've created, a halt on their life's work, and servitude into a patriarchal and restrictive arrangement. Had it not been for the innate desire to have children, many women would be perfectly fine not seeking out men whatsoever. In that sense, we have to thank God that women don't hold all the cards, and that men still have their chromosomes as leverage.

To non-Muslims, marriage has virtually no value or meaning whatsoever. To most Muslims, by the chains of culture, still grudgingly maintain it, but will make it as late, as painful, and as unrewarding as possible. Many (especially women), see it as a far-distant thing, are not serious about it, and have no urgency whatsoever. Until the biological clock starts ticking and they reach 30.

And as for your self-alienation, that's to be expected. Life today feels overly casual and loose, and you feel uncomfortable with that. Instead of walking the tightrope (which only you see), you have felt it safer to not go on it all. But perhaps tightropes are meant to be traversed, rather than avoided in certain situations.

So I empathize.

Link: http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/2350...-the-west/

Post: #2

From another thread:

Why Are Young Women Like This?

Quote:they are girls(mostly teenagers)
they live in western society. They have accepted the norm that it is fine and probably cool for girls to go mad

Quote:I just lost all my faith in young Muslim women.

Quote:Okay never marry a girl from the west. Got it.

Quote:Be on your guard now.

Quote:They dont deserve to wear a beautiful thing (hijab)...cheap girl , when will they learn to have some class *sigh*

Quote:As a woman this is so emberassing. this generation is truly lost but the good part is that they are teenage girls, hope the elders girls, and I mean 20+, are not behaving like this. And heeey, dont bash us "western" girls, not all of us is like that.

Quote:OMG what on Earth did i just see.. what is this world heading for?
Those girls are badly in need of a good lecture!!! It's like breaking my heart to see them screaming around like a bunch of crazy chickens.. and their parents, oh God, did they allow them to even participate :o

Quote:You don't get it guys... there is nothing wrong with young western muslim girls, nothing wrong at all...

Quote:please tell me youre being sarcastic

Quote:i don't blame these girls. i really dont. i blame their parents. an eye opener for those of us raising children.

[img]PIC I dont want to live on this planet anymore [/img]

Link: http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/2350...like-this/

Post: #3

I hope someone recommended this guy go back to Iran and pick up a wife.

I know there is a party culture there, I still think he has a much better shot especially if he goes for a girl that does not have the money to be out partying in the underground.

I don't think a man this devoted would be happy to go around banging sluts, he wants to build something bigger.

Edit:

Well it may not turn out so well?

Quote:when I chose to get married i flew back to my country which im currently still in got married to my cousin which turned out to be the best decision of my life ,and would never trade her for anything or anyone because she is the definition of beauty. And it has been 7 months now happily married.

Post: #4

I've met, befriended and observed enough Muslim men in my country to know that they have serious ego problems thanks in no part to sunshine being blown up their arse from a young age.

Divorce exists within Islam and Islamic cultures and within those marriages a woman has been "soiled" as they describe it. There are surgeries in Manchester, London and Birmingham who specialise in Hymen surgery to make them a virgin once more because they're seen as nothing to men of their culture or they want to hide the fact they rode a carousel.

What this guy is realising is like any other man throughout the world. Very few women are out there who are worth your time. But being a precious snowflake wont change anything except lead you to a life of misery.

Post: #5

This guy would be pleased to meet and marry one of the Topless biking Sisters.

Quote:Tameera Mohamed and her sisters were riding their bikes topless this past Friday and were stopped twice by police.

This guy keep thinking that he'll find some serious virgin-wife-material women in the west without going paedo.

Good luck to him

Post: #6

Ah, the horrors of ethniceldom. Couldn't he just import a bride from Iran?

Post: #7

Poor guys, ground to dust by their respective cultures and environments

Post: #8

Interesting all of the sympathies from other men. Sheesh it takes that sorta conservatism to really see the horrors of western society.

I mean this in the most sincere non-judgmental way...no wonder ISIS can recruit guys to hate the West. It wouldn't take much to convince a younger and/or less intelligent dude from over there to blame the West for ruining their women, albeit indirectly.

Post: #9

(07-28-2015 02:08 PM)blck Wrote:  This guy would be pleased to meet and marry one of the Topless biking Sisters.

Quote:Tameera Mohamed and her sisters were riding their bikes topless this past Friday and were stopped twice by police.

This guy keep thinking that he'll find some serious virgin-wife-material women in the west without going paedo.

Good luck to him

One on the left. Her gums! They are purple. That is not a good sign.

Post: #10

That video of TeamASA was like watching an old video of London White girls chasing down the Beatles. Goes to show how our culture just consumes whoever is here. I remember reading the USA is a place where culture comes to die, and it is no exception for these Muslim women. Even if Muslims become the majority in a place like England, it won't be anything like Saudi Islam.

Post: #11

So, without sex, he'll become a terrorist?

Quote:In the past I could keep it in check but now It is going downhill and I knew this would eventually happen since living in a deeper emotional and physical solitude for too long renders you bitter, and when you are bitter for too long you start to become hateful and then it is just a matter of time before you become evil.. and I don't want to reach that point.

Post: #12

(07-28-2015 02:53 PM)Captainstabbin Wrote:  So, without sex, he'll become a terrorist?

Quote:In the past I could keep it in check but now It is going downhill and I knew this would eventually happen since living in a deeper emotional and physical solitude for too long renders you bitter, and when you are bitter for too long you start to become hateful and then it is just a matter of time before you become evil.. and I don't want to reach that point.

Sounds like it.

Post: #13

(07-28-2015 03:00 PM)thedarkknight Wrote:  

(07-28-2015 02:53 PM)Captainstabbin Wrote:  So, without sex, he'll become a terrorist?

Quote:In the past I could keep it in check but now It is going downhill and I knew this would eventually happen since living in a deeper emotional and physical solitude for too long renders you bitter, and when you are bitter for too long you start to become hateful and then it is just a matter of time before you become evil.. and I don't want to reach that point.

Sounds like it.

I think that their are several threads on the board, which discuss the surplus of young men in areas in the world + sexual frustration => terrorism and revolution. there are books about it, so nothing special.

Post: #14

No pity for him. He's rejecting his own masculinity and sex drive.

People who grow up in strict Islamic families are always the most fucked up mentally.

Post: #15

The guys in here being down on him for wanting a stable family life instead of giving up his religious values and pursuing hedonism don't really seem to understand where he's coming from.

And we recently saw the dangers of what happens when a conservative Muslim abandons his principles in Chattanooga. Dude embraced hedonism for a time, got called on it and felt guilty, so then to compensate for that he swings back into full blown fundamentalism and ISIS shit. He came out worse than he ever originally was.

So yeah, these guys that feel this way should be encouraged to go back home, marry there and stay there. The culture here isn't friendly toward the conservatively religious and those wanting a traditional marriage and family. Degeneracy is on the march. Even honest atheists can see that.

Post: #16

This guy seems to have western friends and be fairly well adjusted, despite not getting a girl, so he doesn't seem like he'd hop the first flight to Syria. But how many Muslim youth in similar situations who AREN'T so well adjusted, aren't accepted by society, and don't bond with their parents because they are stuck between two worlds basically, would jump the first flight to join ISIS at the promise of young, virgin pussy?

I can imagine ISIS recruiters are all over the forums PMing these guys with promises of a virginal wife, power, status (because they come from western countries), leadership roles due to their education, and the honor to fight and die for their religion.

Then ISIS gets one of their teenage virgins to declare her undying love and affection for him over Skype every night and the dude loses his mind and is on the first train out of town.

Post: #17

Two things: First, if he's living in the west, he should understand that the way of life is going to be different. Some aspects will be better, and some aspects will be worse. If the mental anguish he feels would be lessened in his home country, then he should move there. I'm not advocating he embrace all the negative aspects in the west when it comes to women, but rather, he needs to recognize there is a difference between recognizing a negative aspect of society and letting it negatively affect your life. He seems to be in the latter category. I would recommend that he decides where he wants to live, and then he not get so worked up about things that he cannot change.

Second, it seems he's focusing an awful lot on what other people are doing. Women are focusing on their education, job, social life, sex life etc. and whatever they want to. So what? They can do whatever they want. It's up to him to put himself in the best possible place to live a happy life. If women want to whore out let them, he can have a fantastic time pumping and dumping if he so choosed. The thing is I'm all for women being virtuous, nurturing and raising a family, but I have no real influence on that. The most I can do is agree with the guys here on how a woman should live - even offline, vote and lend support where I can to support the cause, and most importantly pump and dump whores who aren't worty of a relationship. I don't let the way some women act bother me on a day to day basis like this guy because it would do nothing to help me. In short, he would live a better life if he put himself in the best possible place and then chill out, playing the cards he's dealt.

Post: #18

PTSD

I was a muslim - I becamse a agnostic/I don't care/I don't have time for religion guy.

Alot of these teachings were taught to me about what to expect out of a woman, of course I never dated "our" women.

Our family of female cousins are pretty much in 2 groups libs and cons.

Libs as in a lesbian, a feminist, an attention whore.

Cons as in born again muslims, secular muslims, and neo conservatives.

All the muslim women here (Southern California) were undercover sluts, super thirsty attention whores, or radicalized fems, of course a few legitimate muslims.

The guys need to realized what they want to find.....it isn't in the western world, it's a needle in a haystack.

Marrying foreign has it's benefits...unless you're marrying your first cousin

Post: #19

The fact that he is a Muslim, an immigrant in the west, etc, is immaterial. His plight is the plight of every blue pill beta provider living today.

I myself have been, and shall continue to fuck the decline. To that end, I deploy all I have, game, money, style, accent ... etc. Be that as it may, I do hate this toxic environment, and make no mistake about it, it's toxic. For unless you are a psychopath, you can't even enjoy it. I sometimes feel like a monster who sits down to enjoy a large roast beef sub in front a bunch of poor hungry men while telling them how well the spicy mustered works with the roast beef. That's why I stopped talking with the younger engineers about women because I know some of them are not getting any.

At least the man in the OP had the safety valve of returning to the old country for a wife. A choice that is not on offer to everyone.

Post: #20

(07-28-2015 03:05 PM)void Wrote:  

(07-28-2015 03:00 PM)thedarkknight Wrote:  

(07-28-2015 02:53 PM)Captainstabbin Wrote:  So, without sex, he'll become a terrorist?

Quote:In the past I could keep it in check but now It is going downhill and I knew this would eventually happen since living in a deeper emotional and physical solitude for too long renders you bitter, and when you are bitter for too long you start to become hateful and then it is just a matter of time before you become evil.. and I don't want to reach that point.

Sounds like it.

I think that their are several threads on the board, which discuss the surplus of young men in areas in the world + sexual frustration => terrorism and revolution. there are books about it, so nothing special.

Don't forget, there's more than a handful of guys who have explicitly given their incel status as the main motive for going postal and shooting up the mall.

Post: #21

I totally get his gripe, if I was a muslim and I had to put up with all the temperance and constant religious bullcrap everyday, the very least I'm expecting to get out of that is what he just described.

Post: #22

In France, there have been stories (reported by right wing sites so there is an agenda) of North African men not only being mad at their women having absolutely haram relationships, but also dating outside the faith/ethnic group.

Post: #23

And you wonder why they hate the west and want to blow it up. You have to ask why his parents brought him to such a shithole of a country(relatively speaking). Where women are all walking dripping cum dumpsters.

If had to guess its because they wanted some kind of life slightly better than goat herder or dirt merchant. You can't move up socio-economically in the west and be a devout Muslim. It doesn't work.

I feel his pain. I'm having a hard time connecting with these trashy whores. They're all the same. For a long time I thought it was me but no matter which way you try it you end up in the same place.

He needs to make a pilgrimage to his home country and find a nice 14 year old virgin bride. Then move her here when she's 18 and has 3 kids. Career will still be a bitch. Muslims aren't too popular these days.

Post: #24

His request of wanting a virgin seems insane - but in 100 years will guys be saying, "I don't want to be with a woman who has 2 kids and an ex-husband" and be ridiculed in similar fashion?

Post: #25

(07-28-2015 09:35 PM)CH-Toronto Wrote:  His request of wanting a virgin seems insane - but in 100 years will guys be saying, "I don't want to be with a woman who has 2 kids and an ex-husband" and be ridiculed in similar fashion?

They already are.