Post: #51

As a neckbeard stuck in his mom's basement, I just love it when Bosch starts sharing stories

Post: #52

(11-04-2015 06:16 AM)H1N1 Wrote:  The Chinese have a great phrase for big guys who can't back it up: they call them 'King Kong Barbies' (pinyin - JinGang Babi), blokes who have big muscles and look the business, but who can't back it up when the time comes.

You bring up a great point.

It's great to be big and jacked but if you don't know how to fight the puzzle is incomplete.

There's a quiet confidence that comes with knowing you can take down and choke the piss out of a guy 20kg heavier than you.

Women feel that shit too.

Finally, I spend a lot of time around amateur/pro fighters and crossfitters and bodybuilders and powerlifters.

And even though some of those guys can whoop your ass and bench press 3x your bodyweight, it never ceases to amaze me how awkward many of them look around a beautiful girl.

IMHO if you really want to be in the top fraction of a percentage point of players, you've got to have the whole package:

- money
- style
- physique
- fight know-how
- confidence
- experience

etc.

Post: #53

(11-04-2015 02:08 AM)AnonymousBosch Wrote:  This shit always sounds like Big Baller Trolling

I want to Big Ball Troll one day... one day...

Post: #54

If your into night game and the club scene then getting jacked will help you a lot. That being said I know some guys who aren't jacked but been going out 3-4 nights a week for 5+ years and kill it in night clubs and game in general but they also have other things going for them. Get everything in tuned and watch your results improve but without a doubt getting a physique will give you a lot more social freedom with women.

Post: #55

As others have pointed out here… Being big in the right circumstances can help. I have friends who are fairly large [And by that I mean 10% BF] at 100kg plus…

…They are hopeless with women. They cannot hold a decent conversation and facially they are actually very average BUT… size kills. Purely for the purposes of banging, they would never need to learn game. On a daily basis they get opportunities handed to them on a platter.

Of course without game you get destroyed in a relationship but the fact remains that size is very important. The one caveat as I mentioned previously is location.

There have been some countries where I've found that it doesn't really help all that much. I'm not a huge guy but at 6'1, 96kg I'm bigger than most.

Post: #56

I agree. Bodybuilding is a major coping mechanism in the Red Pill community, for two reasons. First - Face, Height, and Race are significantly more important than muscles. True incels are born lacking in these areas, not because they're 'too skinny'. Second - natural bodybuilding is a fucking joke. Contrary to muscle mags, natty muscle-building potential is extremely limited, and it is just as genetically based as those other features.

Men are attracted to the concept of bodybuilding for the control it appears to offer - one can 'compensate' and 'make it' via hard work. However for the above reasons, this is an illusion - nature offers no shortcuts. Modern science on the other hand begs to differ. If you're really serious your results and rising above your shortcomings with lifting - then go the enhanced route. That's the form that works. I wish I had started pinning test e from the very first day I started lifting 3 years ago, and that's exactly what I'll do starting next year. So much time wasted, but now no longer.

Post: #57

(11-05-2015 05:32 AM)civpro Wrote:  I agree. Bodybuilding is a major coping mechanism in the Red Pill community, for two reasons. First - Face, Height, and Race are significantly more important than muscles. True incels are born lacking in these areas, not because they're 'too skinny'. Second - natural bodybuilding is a fucking joke. Contrary to muscle mags, natty muscle-building potential is extremely limited, and it is just as genetically based as those other features.

Where I live it's Face,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Body,,,,,,,,,,Skin/Race (clear tan complexion),,,,,,Height (if you are under 5'7 then it becomes an issue).

Post: #58

(11-05-2015 05:32 AM)civpro Wrote:  I agree. Bodybuilding is a major coping mechanism in the Red Pill community, for two reasons. First - Face, Height, and Race are significantly more important than muscles. True incels are born lacking in these areas, not because they're 'too skinny'. Second - natural bodybuilding is a fucking joke. Contrary to muscle mags, natty muscle-building potential is extremely limited, and it is just as genetically based as those other features.

Men are attracted to the concept of bodybuilding for the control it appears to offer - one can 'compensate' and 'make it' via hard work. However for the above reasons, this is an illusion - nature offers no shortcuts. Modern science on the other hand begs to differ. If you're really serious your results and rising above your shortcomings with lifting - then go the enhanced route. That's the form that works. I wish I had started pinning test e from the very first day I started lifting 3 years ago, and that's exactly what I'll do starting next year. So much time wasted, but now no longer.

I partially agree with you on this one! It's true that we all have limitations that won't be overcome by lifting, but hitting the weights will tremendously help our self confidence. At the end of the day, you've got to be realistic with yourself as well. When it comes to women, the guys that's 5'8 will not pull as much as the guys that's 6'2, but he will still have success if he works hard. I know it's easy for me to write this sitting on my ass, but I truly believe it. With hard work, he'll be the best 5'8 guy around. Same with Race, money and etc.

I'm Black and living in Toronto, and it ain't easy. And keep in mind that it's difficult for every man in Toronto! But by being in shape, I'm at least eating something decent every month, and I accept that as my limitation. The I could get more if so so so... train of thoughts will simply make you paranoid, so I trained myself to let it go. That's where Inner Game is so important.

But the most important point that incited me to respond to your post in you Gear comment. If you wanna take Gear since you're a dedicated lifter and you love Bobyduilding with a passion, then go ahead with caution. But if you jump on gear with a negative mindset, then don't do it. If you take the heavy stuff, it will just enhanced your negative traits, and mess your life up.

Your last paragraph just had a negative connotation to me, but maybe I'm wrong . And nowdays, most women are straight up losers in life. This point is really starting to jump at me. You've got hot chicks that can't cook since you never see them in the lunchroom, can't manage to clean after themselves, and so on so forth.

I'm at a point where I'm simply not willing to cross a personal for pussy. When I got in the Game, I had the mindset of doing anything to get these fine Broads. Then when you get them, you start to realize that without their pussy, they'd be shit. Hope that you don't consider jumping on Gear for these chicks.

These losers are simply not worth it. Gear is nothing to play with and can have some serious side effects. A lot of my bodybuilding idols from the 90's have been dropping dead for the last few years, so that alone made me stay away from the heavy stuff. Hope that this makes you think about your motive to jump on gear and steer you away if you want to do it to attract these losers!

Post: #59

Some of you lot mention he needs to know how to fight..that's a good skill in life but is it necessary in game? Do you need to fight someone before you get to sex the lizard? The whole aim here is attracting a lizard not fighting. Besides, most Americans are armed with pistols and greater..

Post: #60

Rex, what is it that you want from game?

Are you looking for a long term relationship or a bunch of a one night stands? What type of quality girl are we looking for?

Define your goals for us, I think your problem isn't "attraction" but more a lack of social circle. Remember gents, Rex is based in Boston which is a hard place to score.

Post: #61

(11-05-2015 07:08 AM)Moma Wrote:  Some of you lot mention he needs to know how to fight..that's a good skill in life but is it necessary in game? Do you need to fight someone before you get to sex the lizard? The whole aim here is attracting a lizard not fighting. Besides, most Americans are armed with pistols and greater..

The only skill necessary in game is going out and running game. Everything else is supplementary.

Post: #62

There are no quick fixes in the game. Panacea should be struck from any serious cocksman's vocabulary (when it comes to game)

I'm with Bosch though. Being bigger is only going to help. You can never been too muscular, too rich, too handsome or too smart.

Post: #63

Civpro, you state that face, height and race are all more important than your body, but I refute this.

Firstly, getting to a low enough BF% means you face will be very defines, and depending from where you're starting from you can easily go up 3 points on facial attractiveness.

Lifting also (should) improve your posture, which can make you seem taller. And this isn't coming from a small guy, I'm 6'2 so this isn't a huge problem for me, but I can see that it improves other guys.

Also, if you think you need to take steroids to get a body that women want, you are past help. I'm not sure if I have good or bad genetics, but I have never even touched any protein supplement, let alone steroids, and I have defined abs and reasonably large muscles. I'm still a teen so if I carry on progressing, I will only get bigger.

This isn't the misc from bodybuilding.com where half the guys are doomed to be 'incels' (as much as I hate the word). I suspect a large amount of them have serious problems with communicating, talking and just having fun, and are most likely autistic.

tl;dr - just lift, eat clean, approach (you don't even have to 'cold approach', just make small talk) and improve yourself. Other than become a millionaire, bodybuilding is the best thing you can do for yourself to get more female attention.

Post: #64

I'll add my opinion, having a weightlifting physique is like having a ticket to play in the professional leagues of game. You get more attention, from better quality girls but you are also facing professional level female opponents.

I have seen guys with great physiques and feeble minds get destroyed emotionally and financially by hot women, master gold diggers and hypergamous whores. I watched in horror the other day at the gym where this super hot petite girl with an "I do squats ass", fake tits and booty shorts cucked her also in great shape boyfriend. They were having some sort of fight...I think about her booty shorts...and she proceeded to do ONLY squats, stiff legged deadlifts, hamstring curls etc and paw on other dudes brazenly while this guy just sort of hung his head. When he said something to her, she verbally abused him like a black lives matter woman on bernie sanders.

Having a great physique gets you into the big leagues, but you had best have the headspace and game to stay alive in the big leaques or you will end up like...Drake. Famous for banging industry whores, she-apes like Serena williams and getting raped by Madonna despite having a 'fame game' ticket to the big leagues.

Even 'big dick' game does not give you the same elite level attention access as a good physique. That just more of less helps you get fish in the boat once they are already hooked and then subsequently turn them into cult like followers and/or helps you bang all of a girl's slutty friends once she spreads the news haha.

The poison to one's mind is if they are jealous of, and subsequently in denial, good physique game. Everyone has their game path of least resistance. Hating on guys that have put in the work in the gym just turns you into a bitter hipster in skinny jeans.

Post: #65

(11-05-2015 01:09 PM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  Having a great physique gets you into the big leagues, but you had best have the headspace and game to stay alive in the big leaques or you will end up like...Drake. Famous for banging industry whores, she-apes like Serena williams and getting raped by Madonna despite having a 'fame game' ticket to the big leagues.

Quoted for truth, i'd give you another rep point just for that.

Post: #66

Plain and simple, Bosch nailed it.

OP confirmed that he is overweight and carrying too much "fat", which to be honest applies to most guys out there.

I hit 215 (steroid induced) and the results were staggering, girls simply became more touchy feely. To me this is an indication if you have a body girls like. Currently, I am just under 200 (natural) with visible abs.

Post: #67

Its been said by plenty of the other usual suspects in the thread (its funny how you start to recognise people's views from across multiple threads on similar topics, actually) but I also completely disagree with the OP. Lifting weights properly for 2/3 years will up ANY man's attractiveness by 2 points on a 10 point scale, guaranteed. This is aside from all the fringe benefits you also get from working out - respect from guys, better physical health, increased sporting ability etc.

Anyone who's gone from skinny to big, or had friends do similar, will vouch for this. The only people who ever seem to disagree are those who are in bad shape and are trying to justify not working out to themselves.

Post: #68

(11-05-2015 02:01 AM)N°6 Wrote:  In the UK, nearly ALL 8+ women are with men with fit physiques but not all men with good physiques are with hot women. We know the market in the UK is against men so body building is extremely important.

This isn't true in my experience. I've been going out in the UK for 16-17 years 3-5 nights per week and it's rare to see the finest girls with big guys. The majority are with normal weight facially handsome young guys, with confidence, and generally from their own age group.

Also, on the verbal game thing vs physical game - attraction can 100% happen at the personality level. I've had girls that I could see were indifferent towards me but when I got a chance to turn on the charm they were all over me. It is 100% possible to create attraction through the things you say, and anyone that says otherwise has never seen guys with great verbal game in action.

On the OP, I agree in some ways because the importance of 'lifting' is way overblown on the forum. But it's a no-brainer to do the best one can with their body as it can only help, and as shown from AB's posts, at the top levels you can have some insane experiences. Can the average natural have those kind of experiences though? I doubt it, but it can still only improve one's results.

On fighting ability, it doesn't mean alot with women. You can have the nicest boxing skills around but you're still just another face in the crowd when it comes to nightlife. I have spit-roasted girls in camps before with other fighters, so there are girls that like it, but knowing how to fight is overrated for women imo.

Post: #69

^ Only thing I'd say Kieran is that there is a sliding scale.

As you age especially into your 40-50's, unless you have an unusually handsome face and age extremely well, being huge is a key to looking like a silver back gorilla instead of "old guy" starting to become "old man". It also defends against women wanting more money and things out of you.

Being bigger is more important for every year you age.

Post: #70

Very motivating thread. I'm 5'10 at 175 lbs and I'm regularly at juuuust visible abs without flexing. One week of running and a few squats and ab ripper x, and I'm conceivably at 'model' physique, lookin like a less-white version of this dude:



and 4 inches shorter. Most girls I've been with say I have the best body they've ever had. One said it looked like I was photoshopped. It helps to be in a town full of manginas that would rather run marathons than barbell squat.

I've only had one experience at a club where a girl was on me purely because of body. She 'discovered it' by putting her hand under my shirt and feeling up. This is pre-RVF, I had no game, logistics were dog shit, etc etc, so I didn't close. That shit about having the right mentality and having your game-knife nice and sharp is true as hell.

But what matters is I got a little taste, and I believe that shit about hitting a certain threshold. Once you hit 200+ lbs with a serious physique, the game has to change.

My question is, given my current state of being in relatively good shape, is it realistic to get to 200+ lbs naturally? For a long time I've just wanted to get to 190 at least and it's just hard as fuck. If it helps any, I'm naturally a leaner dude. If I were a boxer, I'd proooobably be fighting at 160, getting knocked the fuck out by GGG (who I also have a similar build to).



Can a homeless-mans version of GGG, who's also 5'10, get to 200+ naturally?

Post: #71

(11-05-2015 01:01 PM)britchard Wrote:  Civpro, you state that face, height and race are all more important than your body, but I refute this.

Firstly, getting to a low enough BF% means you face will be very defines, and depending from where you're starting from you can easily go up 3 points on facial attractiveness.

Lifting also (should) improve your posture, which can make you seem taller. And this isn't coming from a small guy, I'm 6'2 so this isn't a huge problem for me, but I can see that it improves other guys.

Also, if you think you need to take steroids to get a body that women want, you are past help. I'm not sure if I have good or bad genetics, but I have never even touched any protein supplement, let alone steroids, and I have defined abs and reasonably large muscles. I'm still a teen so if I carry on progressing, I will only get bigger.

This isn't the misc from bodybuilding.com where half the guys are doomed to be 'incels' (as much as I hate the word). I suspect a large amount of them have serious problems with communicating, talking and just having fun, and are most likely autistic.

tl;dr - just lift, eat clean, approach (you don't even have to 'cold approach', just make small talk) and improve yourself. Other than become a millionaire, bodybuilding is the best thing you can do for yourself to get more female attention.

Tall white kid with good frame/hormones 'refutes' me and says everything is 'OK'.



It never ceases to amaze me the complete lack of self-awareness in some people.

Post: #72

Kamikaze - you can get to 200 naturally, it will take time and consistency in the gym.

Post: #73

(11-05-2015 02:57 PM)civpro Wrote:  

(11-05-2015 01:01 PM)britchard Wrote:  Civpro, you state that face, height and race are all more important than your body, but I refute this.

Firstly, getting to a low enough BF% means you face will be very defines, and depending from where you're starting from you can easily go up 3 points on facial attractiveness.

Lifting also (should) improve your posture, which can make you seem taller. And this isn't coming from a small guy, I'm 6'2 so this isn't a huge problem for me, but I can see that it improves other guys.

Also, if you think you need to take steroids to get a body that women want, you are past help. I'm not sure if I have good or bad genetics, but I have never even touched any protein supplement, let alone steroids, and I have defined abs and reasonably large muscles. I'm still a teen so if I carry on progressing, I will only get bigger.

This isn't the misc from bodybuilding.com where half the guys are doomed to be 'incels' (as much as I hate the word). I suspect a large amount of them have serious problems with communicating, talking and just having fun, and are most likely autistic.

tl;dr - just lift, eat clean, approach (you don't even have to 'cold approach', just make small talk) and improve yourself. Other than become a millionaire, bodybuilding is the best thing you can do for yourself to get more female attention.

Tall white kid with good frame/hormones 'refutes' me and says everything is 'OK'.



It never ceases to amaze me the complete lack of self-awareness in some people.

My main gripe with what you said was your comment on the limits of natty bodybuilding.

And yes I understand that being tall and white gives an advantage, but that doesn't mean it's not tough for me.

Post: #74

(11-05-2015 07:08 AM)Moma Wrote:  Some of you lot mention he needs to know how to fight..that's a good skill in life but is it necessary in game? Do you need to fight someone before you get to sex the lizard? The whole aim here is attracting a lizard not fighting. Besides, most Americans are armed with pistols and greater..

Part of female attraction to size is not only knowing you're big enough to protect her, but big enough to enact her will.

I've mentioned my four-step model for predicting Female Behaviour. Step #4 is about evading any negative consequences for bad behaviour. Usually they do this by floating a variety of excuses and seeing what sticks. With a Big Man protecting them, they don't need excuses. Even Leftist women expect other men to enact violence on their behalf to enact their will: note the women trying to get their White Knights to beat up Roosh for them in Canada.

You'll need to know how to fight because once she's on your arm, there's a good chance any inner cuntiness is going to be amped up, and she'll start mouthing off and throwing her weight around, knowing they have to go through you to get to her.

The best tactic for nipping this in the bud is initially laughing at her when she suggests you fight for her. You don't look scared about fighting - more that you're the father and she's the misbehaving little girl and you're not going to do everything she wants when she wants it.

Eventually you'll have to step up and protect her - the fatherly "I'd better take control of the situation from you misbehaving kids" - but you're implanting the idea that she can't ever be entirely sure you'll do this for her: you might just leave her to the wolves one day if she doesn't start behaving.

It's effin' tedious but that's how most chicks seem to be wired when they see you enact violence in her name. The defining female fantasy is the idea of two men fighting over her - that's all Twilight is. Stand triumphant fighting for her and you'll never feel a wetter pussy. This tendency is why I dislike women who chase power: they are never respectful of it, always abusive.

Post: #75

Anonymous Bosch, how long did it take you to get to that physique.... Right now I'm 5'8 and south side of 180 lbs and 15% body fat, I have pretty big arms and a big chest, still working on the abs though.... The attention I get when I'm at the club is insane and I'm staying in Toronto right now.. Last week during Halloween I went to a club and some of the girls would go out of their ways to touch my arms , back and chest. Approaching girls was very easy. I would just go caveman on the girls on the dance floor.... Since I started making serious gains in the gym , I have been getting significant attention from women


And regarding the Ideal Weight to Height for a muscular physique at 5-10% body fat

the amount of weight increases by five to 10 pounds per inch. If you're 5 feet, 5 inches, then your ideal weight is 160 pounds. If you're 5 feet, 6 inches it is 165 pounds. The ideal weight for someone 5 feet, 7 inches is 170 pounds and for 5 feet, 8 inches it is 175 pounds. Ideal weight increases by five pounds per inch until you get to 5 feet, 11 inches. From an ideal weight of 190 pounds for someone 5 feet, 11 inches, the ideal weight jumps 10 pounds to 200 pounds for someone six feet tall. It then increases by 10 pounds per inch.