Post: #1

I've been practising night game in bars and clubs on and off for over 3 years now. In that time I've had moderate success (55 lays, 20+ flags at 23 years old). I'm by no means perfect but I would say my night game would be at the higher end of intermediate.

I'm now at a stage where I care less about quantity and more about the quality of girls. This, in conjunction with night game being draining on the pocket (and soul), has made day game seem very appealing to me right now.

As I work part-time, setting aside an hour or two to day game is actually quite feasible. Just wanting to know it's not a waste of time.

I'm wanting to pick the brain of any guys here that have had good success in night game that have made the progression to day game.

Questions:

I feel like my game is mostly focused on sexual energy, but at the same time uses mostly backhanded compliments and negs: direct day game seems too complimentary and indirect too lame/ Woody Allen like (imagine him doing a pet-shop opener). I liked Krauser's method most thus far - http://www.rooshv.com/direct-day-game-for-beginners - thoughts?

How quickly to get to an intermediate/ advanced level? Are intermediate daygamers getting 20+ lays a year like competent nightgamers do?

Kino vs no kino? I touch on autopilot when I talk to any girl because I'm so used to initiating physical contact on dates and in bars. If it's congruent with my personality would kino scare the cat away on a day approach?

I like the idea of the instadate - how often do you push for it and what's your success rate?

Obviously none of this matters in comparison to action. I plan on going out and making a couple of approaches later today, but some tips from those with experience would be highly appreciated

Cheers

Post: #2

Before you make the switch.. Sit down and ask yourself "When I daygame, Who am I, and who I do I want to be?" Then mold your day-game around that.

You can be just as successful by showing up and saying " Hey, I like you, let's get coffee Friday." None of that other PUA lingo bullshit is needed unless its your personality type. I've never done any of that neg, kino stuff.

When you were 8 years old, you made other friends by showing up and saying, "Hey, I'm ____ , wanna be my friend?" Then somewhere along the way, ego kicked and people felt the need to act more "cool".

Since I made the switch from night-game/internet-game to only doing day-game, I've been acting like an 8 year old in a way, telling a woman exactly what I want and what I think, and it works great. I don't have any bullshit conversation.

I invite you to do the same and test it out yourself. Give it one month -- telling women exactly want you want and how you feel about them. If that doesn't work, then you can go the bullshit route. But I promise you, unless you straight up weird or socially awkward, this approach will work and work well. And then you come to the point where there is no more "game." You're just being yourself and telling her exactly what you want. None of the stuff you read on the forums apply to you. When you get to that point, you slowly do what it takes to increase your appearance, and then you just continue to get more successful and then one day you realize, "As long as you can tell a woman what you want, you'll never be alone."

Post: #3

(12-03-2015 10:13 PM)LINUX Wrote:  Since I made the switch from night-game/internet-game to only doing day-game

What made you switch?

Post: #4

(12-03-2015 10:13 PM)LINUX Wrote:  I invite you to do the same and test it out yourself. Give it one month -- telling women exactly want you want and how you feel about them.

I like the idea of this.

See a girl who is my type and just go: "Hey, I saw you walking from XXX and I wanted to come say hi. Something about your XXX (style, vibe, whatever etc) I find very attractive"

Then continue to have a conversation like a normal person then suggest we should grab a coffee/ exchange numbers.

Yeah?

Post: #5

(12-03-2015 10:37 PM)Prof. Ligate Wrote:  

(12-03-2015 10:13 PM)LINUX Wrote:  I invite you to do the same and test it out yourself. Give it one month -- telling women exactly want you want and how you feel about them.

I like the idea of this.

See a girl who is my type and just go: "Hey, I saw you walking from XXX and I wanted to come say hi. Something about your XXX (style, vibe, whatever etc) I find very attractive"

Then continue to have a conversation like a normal person then suggest we should grab a coffee/ exchange numbers.

Yeah?

That's it, that's all you have to do.

It's very elementary.

If she likes you, she'll say yes, if she doesn't, she will say no. Rambling on for twenty minutes about taking your dog to Petco isn't going to change anything.

Post: #6

(12-03-2015 10:20 PM)zoom Wrote:  

(12-03-2015 10:13 PM)LINUX Wrote:  Since I made the switch from night-game/internet-game to only doing day-game

What made you switch?

I changed because I like women more than most people do and I wanted the option to being able to get women whenever I wanted. Most guys give up night-game because they grow to hate it, but I never hated it and I was good at it, and I still revisit it from time to time. I just needed more options on the table instead of waiting for Friday night to roll around.

Post: #7

In today's age, optimizing your online game is the best for massive results. You can go to a club and pull a 7, and not every time, with a fair amount of effort and stress. Or you can sit back in the comfort of your home and pull that same 7 with no effort whatsoever. Or even a hotter girl as approach anxiety doesn't get in the way. The consistency of results is also far greater.

The only caveat is that you need to optimize your pictures for them to be the best on the site. That may seem like a lot, but it really isn't that difficult if you know what you are doing.

Post: #8

(12-03-2015 10:48 PM)LINUX Wrote:  

(12-03-2015 10:37 PM)Prof. Ligate Wrote:  

(12-03-2015 10:13 PM)LINUX Wrote:  I invite you to do the same and test it out yourself. Give it one month -- telling women exactly want you want and how you feel about them.

I like the idea of this.

See a girl who is my type and just go: "Hey, I saw you walking from XXX and I wanted to come say hi. Something about your XXX (style, vibe, whatever etc) I find very attractive"

Then continue to have a conversation like a normal person then suggest we should grab a coffee/ exchange numbers.

Yeah?

That's it, that's all you have to do.

It's very elementary.

If she likes you, she'll say yes, if she doesn't, she will say no. Rambling on for twenty minutes about taking your dog to Petco isn't going to change anything.

Linux I like your straightforward approach. Have you posted any transcripts of your daygame approaches to the forum? If not would you post a few examples? Would really like to see the context and what you say.

Most of my game is online with a little bit of situational daygame sprinkled in but I'm getting to the point where I want to have more control over what I get. With online you have photos but it's always a gamble as to what will show up and what their vibe is. With direct daygame what you see is what you get and you can go right for what you want.

Post: #9

Where are you getting the night game density?

WIA

Post: #10

(12-04-2015 10:01 AM)Jesus Christ Wrote:  In today's age, optimizing your online game is the best for massive results

What are your results?

(12-04-2015 10:01 AM)Jesus Christ Wrote:  You can go to a club and pull a 7, and not every time, with a fair amount of effort and stress. Or you can sit back in the comfort of your home and pull that same 7 with no effort whatsoever

A non-classically handsome with game like myself can pull a 7 from a club with relative ease... but that same 7 is going to have a choice of 8s and 9s online. Your reply was anything but constructive.

(12-04-2015 11:01 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  Where are you getting the night game density?

As in location, venue type, or..?

Post: #11

(12-04-2015 10:01 AM)Jesus Christ Wrote:  In today's age, optimizing your online game is the best for massive results.

It depends on many variables, especially what part of the world you are in. In the Philippines, you can pipeline many prospects who will be of decent quality to what you could get at home. In the Anglosphere, every single man is flooding the inboxes of mentally ill 4s and 5s. If you're in a big city, with great logistics, and a tried and tested plan to bang on first date, you could get 4s, 5s, and 6s here and there. But you soon get tired of the lack of quality. Fucked up faces and bodies, fucked up minds. Unless you're happy with bottom of the barrel with the occasional "OK" chick, or unless you're a virgin or in a long dry spell desperate to get laid by anything with a pulse, internet "game" in the Anglosphere isn't a long term option. It will just rot your soul like loud night club game does.

When you go to a night club or bar, you can get a decent 7. Not every night, but if you're any way decent, often enough. Online, the 7 is like a 10, her inbox is flooded, she has so many options she doesn't know what to do with herself. Standing in front of her in a night club, talking to her in real life, you have a far greater chance. You can also go for 8s and 9s in clubs who would only really sign up for dating sites for attention. They already have so many options in real life they don't give a fuck about losers messaging them online. It doesn't matter how awesome you are. Stand in front of her in a night club or bar and spit game and if she is open in that moment, you stand a chance.

Then there is day game. Below social circle this is the source of the best quality. The most difficult, the most socially unconventional, but the source of the best quality cold approach prospects.

P.S. Use of internet dating sites only makes the problem of online internet attention whoring worse. Are we so desperate to get 4s and 5s in the sack such that we are willing to contribute to the problems we so vociferously claim to oppose? I feel disgusted with myself after fucking a 5 from the internet, I have felt much better getting ignored on the street by a 9, at least there is no shame in that.

Post: #12

(12-05-2015 12:20 AM)ChickenLover9T9 Wrote:  

(12-04-2015 10:01 AM)Jesus Christ Wrote:  In today's age, optimizing your online game is the best for massive results.

It depends on many variables, especially what part of the world you are in. In the Philippines, you can pipeline many prospects who will be of decent quality to what you could get at home. In the Anglosphere, every single man is flooding the inboxes of mentally ill 4s and 5s. If you're in a big city, with great logistics, and a tried and tested plan to bang on first date, you could get 4s, 5s, and 6s here and there. But you soon get tired of the lack of quality. Fucked up faces and bodies, fucked up minds. Unless you're happy with bottom of the barrel with the occasional "OK" chick, or unless you're a virgin or in a long dry spell desperate to get laid by anything with a pulse, internet "game" in the Anglosphere isn't a long term option. It will just rot your soul like loud night club game does.

When you go to a night club or bar, you can get a decent 7. Not every night, but if you're any way decent, often enough. Online, the 7 is like a 10, her inbox is flooded, she has so many options she doesn't know what to do with herself. Standing in front of her in a night club, talking to her in real life, you have a far greater chance. You can also go for 8s and 9s in clubs who would only really sign up for dating sites for attention. They already have so many options in real life they don't give a fuck about losers messaging them online. It doesn't matter how awesome you are. Stand in front of her in a night club or bar and spit game and if she is open in that moment, you stand a chance.

Then there is day game. Below social circle this is the source of the best quality. The most difficult, the most socially unconventional, but the source of the best quality cold approach prospects.

P.S. Use of internet dating sites only makes the problem of online internet attention whoring worse. Are we so desperate to get 4s and 5s in the sack such that we are willing to contribute to the problems we so vociferously claim to oppose? I feel disgusted with myself after fucking a 5 from the internet, I have felt much better getting ignored on the street by a 9, at least there is no shame in that.

You must be doing something wrong. I can get 7s consistently and even ocasional 8s from online. There was even a poster here who testified to getting a 9 out on a date from online.

Post: #13

(12-05-2015 12:33 AM)Jesus Christ Wrote:  You must be doing something wrong. I can get 7s consistently and even ocasional 8s from online. There was even a poster here who testified to getting a 9 out on a date from online.

Cool. What is your point? Of course there are guys getting 9s online. Just like there are guys getting 9s from night-game. Please stop spamming the thread

Post: #14

(12-05-2015 12:54 AM)Prof. Ligate Wrote:  

(12-05-2015 12:33 AM)Jesus Christ Wrote:  You must be doing something wrong. I can get 7s consistently and even ocasional 8s from online. There was even a poster here who testified to getting a 9 out on a date from online.

Cool. What is your point? Of course there are guys getting 9s online. Just like there are guys getting 9s from night-game. Please stop spamming the thread

My point is that it is incorrect to dismiss online dating just because a particular man, with a particular SMV, cannot get results off it. Don't make the discussion personal.

Post: #15

Like I said, it depends on many variables. Also I suspect your definition of a "7" or "8" may be very, very different from mine. One anecdotal report of a "9" from the internet is not worth much, even if it did happen, and even if it is a true 9. Again too many variables. There are always exceptions to rules. If you're getting better results online than in bars, then I would counter you're either being lazy or are doing something wrong, or you have an exceptionally good set of variables going on, which I already addressed:

Quote:If you're in a big city, with great logistics, and a tried and tested plan to bang on first date, you could get 4s, 5s, and 6s here and there. But you soon get tired of the lack of quality. Fucked up faces and bodies, fucked up minds.

In the Anglosphere, average quality wise, night game beats online game. There is no disputing that, online really is the gutter as far as quality goes. You go to the right clubs and bars and 7s 8s and 9s are there for the taking. Not easy but they are there and if you're anywhere decent you have a chance.

If you are getting great success online with truly quality girls, true 7/8/9s with minimal mental issues and pleasant personalities, it would be beneficial to others for you to outline your specific circumstances and what has made this possible for you, so that any others on this forum who wish to try their hand at the whole internet thing can benefit from your wisdom. There may be some variables vital to your success that you're not consciously aware of, so try to list everything. I suppose this would be a separate thread though.

All I know is, from my own experience in the UK, I go online in most cities and I see without a shadow of a doubt the worst quality women, women you never see in the day because they barely leave the house. I haven't looked in years because it's just repulsive. On the other hand in the very same city I can go out to local bars and see hot, hot women. Even if a large % of them are dumb bar/club sluts, they are still hot as hell. Internet dating is where women who wouldn't get attention in real life hang out, so that they can get the attention they miss in real life. This is because the attention in real life goes to the girls who are actually hot, not the fat grenade you want to get rid of so you can take your cute girl home. There's also a huge proportion of women online with mental illness, warning signs being tattoos, piercings, odd haircuts, odd hair colors, interests such as "Pokemon" and so on. I personally would use the internet in certain other countries in conjunction with day game, but I would not and do not use it in the Anglosphere. I would also NEVER use the internet as my only way of meeting women. That's like going to McDonalds drive-thru every day and concluding that Big Mac and fries constitutes the entire culinary diversity of humanity.

The OP's original desire to transition from night game to day game is just another step in the increased quality direction. You find women who are not only naturally more beautiful, but also more pleasant and feminine. At night, you might get top tier club sluts who are extremely hot, but they lack feminine decorum which is very unpleasant and difficult to deal with. I would say day game is the "hardest" but if you don't want to labor to build a huge social circle it's the best way to get quality mLTRs.

P.S. OP, in response to your original question, as above, there is no sugar coating it, day game is hard. There are pros and cons of it vs night game. I've given one pro already, higher quality girls in every respect. If you go to a main shopping mall or street with high foot traffic, you can see hundreds of hot girls walk by that you never would have got to meet in a bar or night club. There is some overlap of course because some of these girls may be in bars occasionally (or a lot), a few of them even may have profiles online (lol)... but generally, you will be putting yourself ahead of most men who only approach when drunk at night or "approach" online.

The main cons I see in daygame are related to its pros. Higher quality girls may be more pleasant to talk to generally than drunk club sluts, but many of them have genuine LTRs and without alcohol, music etc. are less susceptible to being led astray, even if their foot is half out the door. You have lots of pleasant, interesting conversations, which unfortunately lead nowhere, even if you get the number. Take from this what you will but "top" daygamers say they "only" get 1 in 10 bangs from numbers collected, and if you get a good 1 in 3 numbers from approaches, you see that there is maybe 1 in 30 chance of a bang from an approach. That's if you're doing well. There are approach machines who have done ridiculous daytime cold approaches, like 200, 300, 500 or even 1000 and got only 1 or even 0 lays. Most of this is the RSD nutters who advocate spamming without any kind of appraisal of results plus some pseudo-Buddhist ramblings to get over the emotional steamrolling that 1000 daytime approaches will lead to. (Most of them burn out and quit.)

So if you're asking guys who are successful as per your OP, you have to get a realistic ballpark figure of what successful in day game actually is. If you look at the "expert" numbers above, they don't look all that tempting. Either you go to a place in the world where the market will increase your numbers with the same efforts, or you are happy with those numbers and shoot for those.

If you take out your personal level of game, and assume it's decent enough with a few adjustments for slower/lower energy day vs faster/clown level energy night, then I think the reason why day game has such apparently low success rates is because of logistics. Most girls are going somewhere, on errands, and if they are not, it's still hard to pull them directly to your place in the cold light of day, no alcohol. A girl who allows that would be more likely to be promiscuous, maybe that's what you want, but if it's a quality girl, the sad part about it is that she is less likely to cheat on her BF even if she likes you. Girls get nervous in the day and in the cold light of day their interest is subtle but through experience becomes obvious. I don't think the whole direct thing is necessary, girls genuinely do get scared, situational indirect has worked best for me. It becomes irrelevant what you started with when you start to ask personal questions, she won't even remember.

Day game is for me the most beautiful and thrilling way to meet women but also very sad at the same time. I've lost count of the beautiful, feminine girls that are just not accessible. PUA companies will tell you that you can get every girl, bullshit. Roosh said it well, something along the lines of, at any given time most girls will not be open to meeting someone new, and there's nothing you can do that can change that. At some other time in the future, if you caught them, they might be open. But not at the time you approached. Developing ways to cut off the interactions which (from experience) you sense are going to lead to nothing as early as possible is key in minimizing your efforts to get results because burnout is a big problem in day game. Also running game in certain niches of day game which you find easier helps as well, for instance if you hate game on the subway, but you feel more free on the streets and malls, or festivals or coffee shops, whatever it is, as long as there are plenty of quality girls, go for the path of least resistance. Play to your strengths. Pick your battle fields wisely. Pick your battles wisely. Know when to run, know when to persist. If you're fortunate enough to get some bangs from beautiful girls from daygame, I find it's best to put them in a harem/rotation/keep them as mLTRs because these are more the type of girls you wouldn't mind your family meeting.

Post: #16

If you want results from online you have to be the best option on the whole site. That means a deep understanding of how online works and what pictures work. There are plenty of 7s online, few 8s in the West but they still exist. You speak of 7s as if they were Victoria's Secret Models. Unless you are in Russia there won't be any 9s, and even there it will be extremely rare.

But naturally, these women want the best they can get. So you must be the best on the site. My theory is that most of the men here are somewhere in the middle, hence they are only getting the grotty girls who believe the top options are out of their reach.

Post: #17

'He doesn't look a thing like Jeeesussss'

Post: #18

(12-05-2015 01:24 AM)Prof. Ligate Wrote:  'He doesn't look a thing like Jeeesussss'

Post: #19

(12-05-2015 01:14 AM)ChickenLover9T9 Wrote:  Higher quality girls may be more pleasant to talk to generally than drunk club sluts.

This is a common misconception. I have been daygaming my whole life and the girls you meet in the street are exactly the same girls that are in the clubs. In the West there is cultural homogeneity, which means that there really aren't any girls who live model lives. They are all sluts or have been sluts at some point in their life.

Post: #20

(12-05-2015 02:00 AM)Jesus Christ Wrote:  

(12-05-2015 01:14 AM)ChickenLover9T9 Wrote:  Higher quality girls may be more pleasant to talk to generally than drunk club sluts.

This is a common misconception. I have been daygaming my whole life and the girls you meet in the street are exactly the same girls that are in the clubs. In the West there is cultural homogeneity, which means that there really aren't any girls who live model lives. They are all sluts or have been sluts at some point in their life.

Please stop trolling threads

Post: #21

(12-05-2015 06:24 AM)Prof. Ligate Wrote:  Please stop trolling threads

Post: #22

(12-05-2015 06:25 AM)Jesus Christ Wrote:  

(12-05-2015 06:24 AM)Prof. Ligate Wrote:  Please stop trolling threads

Post: #23

(12-03-2015 10:13 PM)LINUX Wrote:  Before you make the switch.. Sit down and ask yourself "When I daygame, Who am I, and who I do I want to be?" Then mold your day-game around that.

You can be just as successful by showing up and saying " Hey, I like you, let's get coffee Friday." None of that other PUA lingo bullshit is needed unless its your personality type. I've never done any of that neg, kino stuff.

When you were 8 years old, you made other friends by showing up and saying, "Hey, I'm ____ , wanna be my friend?" Then somewhere along the way, ego kicked and people felt the need to act more "cool".

Since I made the switch from night-game/internet-game to only doing day-game, I've been acting like an 8 year old in a way, telling a woman exactly what I want and what I think, and it works great. I don't have any bullshit conversation.

I invite you to do the same and test it out yourself. Give it one month -- telling women exactly want you want and how you feel about them. If that doesn't work, then you can go the bullshit route. But I promise you, unless you straight up weird or socially awkward, this approach will work and work well. And then you come to the point where there is no more "game." You're just being yourself and telling her exactly what you want. None of the stuff you read on the forums apply to you. When you get to that point, you slowly do what it takes to increase your appearance, and then you just continue to get more successful and then one day you realize, "As long as you can tell a woman what you want, you'll never be alone."

Really good stuff

Post: #24

(12-03-2015 09:26 PM)Prof. Ligate Wrote:  As I work part-time, setting aside an hour or two to day game is actually quite feasible. Just wanting to know it's not a waste of time.

An hour is plenty.

(12-03-2015 09:26 PM)Prof. Ligate Wrote:  Questions:
[i]
I feel like my game is mostly focused on sexual energy, but at the same time uses mostly backhanded compliments and negs: direct day game seems too complimentary and indirect too lame/ Woody Allen like (imagine him doing a pet-shop opener). I liked Krauser's method most thus far - http://www.rooshv.com/direct-day-game-for-beginners - thoughts?

Just get Roosh's day bang and start there. And indirect is not lame as I and others get laid doing it.

Krauser and the "yad" stop they preach is unnecessary and is more of a gimmick that doesn't work on certain girls. There's better ways, that don't result in you looking like an idiot when she's an ice queen.

Post: #25

(12-04-2015 10:26 PM)Prof. Ligate Wrote:  

(12-04-2015 11:01 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  Where are you getting the night game density?

As in location, venue type, or..?

Yeah.

WIA