Post: #1

Hello guys,

I was contacted by a recruitment agency and invited to a small sized recruitment event of an investment bank.
Since I’d like to work as a quant, I want to make an excellent first impression. I have two questions regarding how to dress for this opportunity.

-According to online advice, braces (suspenders) are a no go. Why? Suit pants drape far better when worn with braces. Yes my pants have belt loops, but they are not visible when I have my jacket on (just like my braces, which are in a neutral color by the way).

-Can I wear a pocket square or is it a no go as well? I will already be far better dressed than the other nerds at the event (it’s aimed at engineers and scientists). Will the pocket square be a nice finishing touch or is it likely to offend the recruiters?

So pocket squares and braces yes or no? (Btw it is not for a bank operating from the US or from London.)

Post: #2

A subtle pocket square is definitely a good idea. I'm not sure about braces, but if they are hidden under your jacket and they help your pants drape well, why not?

Post: #3

Braces are an ESSENTIAL part of getting the trousers of a nice suit to hang properly. If you wear a belt with a suit you should take the belt out the belt loops, and repeatedly flog yourself with it until you promise never to do something so ill-judged again. If your trousers are to hang properly, not pool on the top of your shoe, then you need to wear braces. Do not listen to what some idiot on the internet has told you (he said, tongue in cheek), the guy is wrong.

Pocket square is a good thing, but it should be white (as should your shirt), with only the top 1cm or so showing. Nothing fancy, nothing flashy, a simple square fold to provide a tiny bit of relief against the monotone of your suit.

If you want the full guide:

Black shoes, polished to within an inch of their life. Your shoes must shine.

Socks should match the suit as nearly as possible. No bright colours.

Demure suit, nothing gauche, nothing overly tailored with funky lapels or any of that other 'fashionable' crap pushed by subversive idiots who hate the idea of actually looking like a gentleman.

Your shirt should be white. Black shirts are for sex offenders, don't wear them with a suit (or ever).

Braces - essential in my view. Nothing too wide, shaped, or loud. Should either be generic dark colour, or pair passably with your tie.

White pocket square to match the shirt, only a cm or so showing.

Tie - this is the place to introduce some individual flair should you so wish. Again, something classic with a twist is ideal. I have a variety of dark navy blue ties, with small, discrete animals on, or with spots on. At first glance this is a classic tie with some interest, it is only on close examination that it shows a touch of humour and flair. Dark ties with medium sized pink or white spots look fantastic too. If you wear a black tie, or a skinny tie, you should use it to hang yourself before the interview.

Post: #4

(12-04-2015 06:18 AM)H1N1 Wrote:  Your shirt should be white. Black shirts are for sex offenders, don't wear them with a suit (or ever).

Two types of men wear black shirts:


and


Strictly white is a bit OOT, though. At least in Britain and her ex-colonies, some flair is followed in a button-down shirt:



I wouldn't knock yourself out, sky-blue is a pretty safe foray into colour.

I never cease to chuckle at the interview dress code advice that proliferates on the internet seeking to strip everything from a suit that makes it what it is. I wouldn't go nuts with the bow ties and waistcoats, but Americans in particular seem to get finicky over ribbons of silk that hold up your trousers or bits of linen that peek out of your breast pocket.

Wear your braces and pocket square with pride. Anyone petty enough to get uptight by their presence shouldn't be fit to be interviewing you in the first place.

You wouldn't take your jacket off at the interview anyway, unless the interview mafia would be popping by to inspect the inside of your jackets to ensure you are conforming to interview mode?
Your pocket square should be cotton or linen -- never silk or any satin weave. And they should never, ever match your tie.

Before you ask, cufflinks and French-cuff shirts can definitely be worn to an interview. In fact, the French cuff used to be the informal type on a shirt.

Post: #5

(12-04-2015 08:30 AM)JWLZG Wrote:  

(12-04-2015 06:18 AM)H1N1 Wrote:  Your shirt should be white. Black shirts are for sex offenders, don't wear them with a suit (or ever).

Two types of men wear black shirts:


and


Strictly white is a bit OOT, though. At least in Britain and her ex-colonies, some flair is followed in a button-down shirt:



I wouldn't knock yourself out, sky-blue is a pretty safe foray into colour.

I never cease to chuckle at the interview dress code advice that proliferates on the internet seeking to strip everything from a suit that makes it what it is. I wouldn't go nuts with the bow ties and waistcoats, but Americans in particular seem to get finicky over ribbons of silk that hold up your trousers or bits of linen that peek out of your breast pocket.

Wear your braces and pocket square with pride. Anyone petty enough to get uptight by their presence shouldn't be fit to be interviewing you in the first place.

You wouldn't take your jacket off at the interview anyway, unless the interview mafia would be popping by to inspect the inside of your jackets to ensure you are conforming to interview mode?
Your pocket square should be cotton or linen -- never silk or any satin weave. And they should never, ever match your tie.

Before you ask, cufflinks and French-cuff shirts can definitely be worn to an interview. In fact, the French cuff used to be the informal type on a shirt.

There's a degree more leeway that the strict white shirt, but loud striped shirts as some of the above, cut away collars, or striped ties should, in my view, be avoided with a suit. If you have a stripe in your suit you should never wear a striped shirt. Stripes in the shirt tend to distract from the cloth and subtle patterning of a well tailored suit. Stripes in a tie are regimental or club colours. If your tie is off the shelf and doesn't 'mean' something, it should not be striped.

I'd agree that pale blue, or pale pink shirts are acceptable, if inadvisable for the most serious occasions.

Post: #6

Wait a minute!? Obviously you wouldn't wear a black shirt with a suit to an interview, but your saying not ever? I disagree. I've had several long sleeve button up black shirts over the years, and I think they look sharp. I googled images for black men's shirts, and I think they look good generally.

Perhaps this advice is only targeted at people in the investment banking crowd?

Post: #7

The striped shirts posted might work for a regular work day at the office but in my opinion should be avoided for the interview. Stay with solid colors that don't stand out.

Post: #8

There is a book on this subject you can buy for a cent.

It is a suberb, raw, totally politically incorrect and honest book about clothing for men. It is a great book generally speaking in the non-fiction self-improvement / business success category, not just on the matter of clothing.

http://www.amazon.com/Dress-Success-John...0446382639

Make sure you buy the old version used not the new watered down one.

Post: #9

Standard USA Business Uniform:

http://www.amazon.com/John-T.-Molloy/e/B000APIT0I/

http://www.amazon.com/John-Molloys-New-D...bc?ie=UTF8

These are not some women or fag designers idea of what to wear - John T. Malloy did his work based upon many case studies how different styles and colors had differing effects and outcomes in life and in business...

Summary of the ideal Conservative USA Business Uniform:

Suit - quality Dark Navy Blue with Thin Pin Stripes or Charcoal Grey wool suit - winter weight wool in winter summer weight wools in summer or a really fine wool poly blend - fabric test grab the fabric in your fist and crush it - it the fabric falls back with no wrinkles than that is good enough for an entry level suit. For Senior Executive Positions all your suits should be tailored with sewn in backing versus factory off the rack bonded backing. For junior level positions Hart Shaffner and Marx is a quality brand. I also like the K&G Men's Stores in New England as they buy direct from the Italian brands Romanian factories. High Quality Italian wool fabrics with Cheap Romanian labor - off the Rack will be $300 to $700 for a fine 2 piece OTS suit versus $2K to $4K for a custom tailored hand Sewn and perfectly fitted 2 Piece Suit... always order a second pair of tailored trousers as mens trousers always wear out long before suit jackets. I still like a 1.25" trouser cuff but chack around your local financial district watering holes to see how many trouser cuffs versus striaght leg suits - cuffs more conservative. I have only seen lawyers and pimps wearing vests or when wearing a Tux at benefit galas. Black suits are only worn at funerals. A Tux is always straight legged.

Shirts and Ties go to Neiman Marcus or Thomas Pink for quality french cuff or Jos. A Banks shirts and matching high quality silk ties solid Red, Gold or Royal blue ties can never go wrong - once you have some FU money then wear whatever you like club rep, floral, paisley, pin dot all fine if a conservative look. Charvet at Neiman Marcus are fine 100% silk ties. Braces - conservative and best quality you can afford - leather button loops matched to trouser buttons never the brass fabric clips - like wearing a clip on tie WTF.

Get a box of white linen kerchiefs and fold to the width of a suit chest pocket and fold over on one end so that 1 cm remains above the pocket... if you are more senior learn how to fold the top four corners and fold bottom to the depth of your suit pocket so that only the four fold triangles appear - takes some practice - save the silk pocket squares for after work or with a tux when you want to attract the sexy buzzing banglers with some rich sex silk red colour.

Dress serious for business and a bit more flashy for sex.

Socks should be black and held up by garters and never sag ever...

Shoes should always look military spit shined cap toed or rolled cap toed - classic wingtips if older gent with straight laced and I mean sharp straight laced not lazy crisscross lacing - google it..

Watches and jewelry - who wears a watch these days when everyone has an accurate atomic clock updated clock in their smart phones. Leave the flashy Rolex or Breitlings solid platinum watch to when you close your first $10M commission and have plenty of Fuck You money available. Cufflinks should be discreet and of quality - but do not upstage the hiring director - save the giant Curved Silver or Golden Eagle coin cufflinks till you are the hiring Director. Mont Blanc has some nice gold and black onyx cufflinks.

Only acceptable men's jewelry is a gold wedding band with now diamonds or other feminine accouterments.

Overcoat - Burberry Trench Coat - with liner for cold weather - However if you live in cities that hit 40F below in winter with 10 feet of salty slushy snow a full length heavy duty parka that covers your lower suit hem... and Hood to protect you from frostbite... pack your dress shoes and wear LL Bean classic winter/salt/slush proof medium high boots you can fold and tuck your suit trousers into... Fashion gives sway to function when faced with Frostbite.

FYI Look at the typical financial Billionaire in a Suit and their hair style - clean cut business cut around the ears block in back rounded corners and 3 to 5 inches on top with strong gel control.

Ponytails are reserved for Silicon Valley tech cowboys, balding old car dealership owners or Colombian drugs dealers.

Dentition - perfect Hollywood Fibonacci Golden Ratio white smile... or never smile.

The idea is to look solid, reliable, professional and subtly prosperous.

Leave flamboyance to the gay pride parades.

EDIT - Great minds think alike - OTR posted his JT Malloy link just before I finished typing my write up - I bought all the JT Malloy Books and surprisingly cheap on Amazon for good used copies... even bought the Dress for Success for Women so I would know how to turn out my women since they have created an economy based on two income households - can't beat them then turn them out best you can and turn them into earners to take the heat and pressure off of yourself.

Post: #10

This is one of the better threads on SF. Lots of I-Bankers and even more Clothes Horses.

http://www.styleforum.net/t/96920/i-bank...uggestions

Here's the level of advice that you should be getting on this question.

"Back when I was in college and I interviewed for an investing summer job in NYC, I went out and bought a new OTR suit at Sterns at Roosevelt Field Mall (now closed -> Macys) on sale. Dark Charcoal, thin pinstripe. At my interview, one of my interviewers, the one deciding whether or not to hire me, commented in a positive manner that she liked that I wore a suit to the interview. I was a college student then. No cufflinks. No pocket square. No black suit. When I was interviewing for dermatology residency, I had a few suits in my stable. I usually wore a navy blue with grey pinstripes to my interviews - 42r with 36 x 32 pants - again, no links, black shoes (polished), and no square. I got a few comments - nice suit, etc. You want to look good at interviews, but not too good. You dont want to show up interviewers/superiors."

You basically have to use external game for these sorts of things.

WIA

Post: #11

(12-04-2015 04:40 PM)RoastBeefCurtains4Me Wrote:  Wait a minute!? Obviously you wouldn't wear a black shirt with a suit to an interview, but your saying not ever? I disagree. I've had several long sleeve button up black shirts over the years, and I think they look sharp. I googled images for black men's shirts, and I think they look good generally.

Perhaps this advice is only targeted at people in the investment banking crowd?

Absolutely categorically never.

If you want to impress barmaids and single mothers, or convince some tired old hooker that you once appeared alongside Leonardo di Caprio in a B movie at the start of his career and 'taught him everything he knows', or even if you want to lure small children into the back of your rusted old van, then the black shirt should be your go to garment of choice. Paired with a nice, gold or silver lame (insert appropriate inflection) tie to really complete the look.

Seriously, the people that think you look sharp in a black shirt will never find themselves within 10 floors of the boardroom of any major public company, or indeed any established private company that isn't a startup, unless they are there to sweep the floors.

A suit is a uniform, and how you wear it signals to those who call the shots whether you belong in their club one day or not. I can tell you the moment someone walks through the door whether he has the potential to rise to the very top of a major company based on how his suit fits, how his shoes look, the colour of his shirt, the cut of its collar, choice of tie, etc. There is a right way to wear a suit, and there is a right way to add individual flare. There are also a thousand wrong ways to do it, and if you do get it wrong you will not make it into the major leagues. It sounds trivial but impressions count, particularly at the highest levels, and having a jacket tailored too short because you thought it looked good on David Beckham, or similar fashion faux pas, are the death knell of your aspirations.

Post: #12

Light blue shirt.

A simple tie. Red or orange maybe. Not skinny.

Don't wear a pocket square, it's rarely done among finance types in the US.

A navy or charcoal suit. Definitely not a black suit.


Do you know what types of quants they're looking for? I work at an asset management firm that uses quantitative models to invest but within the firm we don't call ourselves quants.

Post: #13

Post: #14

(12-04-2015 07:50 PM)H1N1 Wrote:  

(12-04-2015 04:40 PM)RoastBeefCurtains4Me Wrote:  Wait a minute!? Obviously you wouldn't wear a black shirt with a suit to an interview, but your saying not ever? I disagree. I've had several long sleeve button up black shirts over the years, and I think they look sharp. I googled images for black men's shirts, and I think they look good generally.

Perhaps this advice is only targeted at people in the investment banking crowd?

Absolutely categorically never.

If you want to impress barmaids and single mothers, or convince some tired old hooker that you once appeared alongside Leonardo di Caprio in a B movie at the start of his career and 'taught him everything he knows', or even if you want to lure small children into the back of your rusted old van, then the black shirt should be your go to garment of choice. Paired with a nice, gold or silver lame (insert appropriate inflection) tie to really complete the look.

Truth. Black shirts and a gold tie is what the DJ at some 40 year old skank's third wedding wears as he plays 'Living on a Prayer' and macks on the bridesmaids.

Post: #15

In certain IB circles, suspenders are reserved for higher level executives.

Post: #16

Thanks for the good advice.
I will be wearing this:

-suit (very classic): dark blue wool cashmere, single breasted, two buttons, double vent, notch lapel, regular lapel width, good jacket length, flat front pants, no trouser cuff, tailored, full canvas, horn buttons

-shirt: Thomas Mason light blue oxford cloth, point collar, tailored, very discreet silver cufflinks

-tie: brown, silk, 7-fold, good width, full windsor knot

-braces: brown, leather button loops

-shoes: brown cap-toe oxfords, mirror shine

-watch: none

-pocket square: subtle cotton or linen, square fold, 1-2 cm showing

I think this will be a bit classier than the standard banking outfit, while still looking professional.

Post: #17

You should be on WSO for this, not on RVF.

And the verdict there is don't wear a pocket square.

http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/pocket-square

You're in EU though so it might be different? Better to err on the side of caution. You're not going to get the job for having a pocket square.

Post: #18

Good call on discreet cufflinks. I have read that those are also usually reserved for senior members, so if you are going to wear them discreet is the way to go.

Post: #19

(12-05-2015 09:25 AM)Tokyo Joe Wrote:  

This

Post: #20

(12-04-2015 06:18 AM)H1N1 Wrote:  Braces are an ESSENTIAL part of getting the trousers of a nice suit to hang properly. If you wear a belt with a suit you should take the belt out the belt loops, and repeatedly flog yourself with it until you promise never to do something so ill-judged again. If your trousers are to hang properly, not pool on the top of your shoe, then you need to wear braces. Do not listen to what some idiot on the internet has told you (he said, tongue in cheek), the guy is wrong.

Pocket square is a good thing, but it should be white (as should your shirt), with only the top 1cm or so showing. Nothing fancy, nothing flashy, a simple square fold to provide a tiny bit of relief against the monotone of your suit.

If you want the full guide:

Black shoes, polished to within an inch of their life. Your shoes must shine.

Socks should match the suit as nearly as possible. No bright colours.

Demure suit, nothing gauche, nothing overly tailored with funky lapels or any of that other 'fashionable' crap pushed by subversive idiots who hate the idea of actually looking like a gentleman.

Your shirt should be white. Black shirts are for sex offenders, don't wear them with a suit (or ever).

Braces - essential in my view. Nothing too wide, shaped, or loud. Should either be generic dark colour, or pair passably with your tie.

White pocket square to match the shirt, only a cm or so showing.

Tie - this is the place to introduce some individual flair should you so wish. Again, something classic with a twist is ideal. I have a variety of dark navy blue ties, with small, discrete animals on, or with spots on. At first glance this is a classic tie with some interest, it is only on close examination that it shows a touch of humour and flair. Dark ties with medium sized pink or white spots look fantastic too. If you wear a black tie, or a skinny tie, you should use it to hang yourself before the interview.

I really appreciate the knowledge you're dropping in this thread, especially since I work in a slightly less formal environment, so have little opportunity to see this for myself.

What do you think about fabric and colour choices? I'm going to assume you eschew plain black suits, but what about pinstripes? Also, would a slightly fuzzy flannel suit be appropriate in this environment?

Post: #21

(12-07-2015 01:27 PM)Surreyman Wrote:  

(12-04-2015 06:18 AM)H1N1 Wrote:  Braces are an ESSENTIAL part of getting the trousers of a nice suit to hang properly. If you wear a belt with a suit you should take the belt out the belt loops, and repeatedly flog yourself with it until you promise never to do something so ill-judged again. If your trousers are to hang properly, not pool on the top of your shoe, then you need to wear braces. Do not listen to what some idiot on the internet has told you (he said, tongue in cheek), the guy is wrong.

Pocket square is a good thing, but it should be white (as should your shirt), with only the top 1cm or so showing. Nothing fancy, nothing flashy, a simple square fold to provide a tiny bit of relief against the monotone of your suit.

If you want the full guide:

Black shoes, polished to within an inch of their life. Your shoes must shine.

Socks should match the suit as nearly as possible. No bright colours.

Demure suit, nothing gauche, nothing overly tailored with funky lapels or any of that other 'fashionable' crap pushed by subversive idiots who hate the idea of actually looking like a gentleman.

Your shirt should be white. Black shirts are for sex offenders, don't wear them with a suit (or ever).

Braces - essential in my view. Nothing too wide, shaped, or loud. Should either be generic dark colour, or pair passably with your tie.

White pocket square to match the shirt, only a cm or so showing.

Tie - this is the place to introduce some individual flair should you so wish. Again, something classic with a twist is ideal. I have a variety of dark navy blue ties, with small, discrete animals on, or with spots on. At first glance this is a classic tie with some interest, it is only on close examination that it shows a touch of humour and flair. Dark ties with medium sized pink or white spots look fantastic too. If you wear a black tie, or a skinny tie, you should use it to hang yourself before the interview.

I really appreciate the knowledge you're dropping in this thread, especially since I work in a slightly less formal environment, so have little opportunity to see this for myself.

What do you think about fabric and colour choices? I'm going to assume you eschew plain black suits, but what about pinstripes? Also, would a slightly fuzzy flannel suit be appropriate in this environment?

I'm flattered you find it helpful.

Fabric is very much a personal thing, and is your chance to add discrete personal flair. For example, one of my favorite suits is a 3 piece in dark grey/charcoal grey with a very discrete herringbone pattern and a wide-spaced deep pink stripe that is a fraction of a millimetre wider than a typical pinstripe. It's at the very flash end of strictly traditional.

Plain black suits are for undertakers and footballers.

As for what is appropriate in IB, I don't know, I turned down the jobs in it that I was offered and have never had any exposure other than the interview rooms. What I would say is that I got every job I applied for with very well known global firms, and wore the above suit, or something similar, and along the lines I described in my earlier post. Every single partner that interviewed me complimented me on how I was dressed - I don't say it to brag, more to show that the guys at the top were not intimidated by it, or annoyed by it, rather they felt that having someone who presented like me representing their interests was an entirely positive thing for their business. As for flannel I have no idea, I suspect it is far too informal, I've never really come across a flannel suit as far as I'm aware in a business environment, but I run my own business and shag about in casuals most of the time.

There are lots of things with regards to suits that mark you out very quickly. For example, OP mentioned that his suit has a double vent. Double vents don't typically belong on formal city suits - they are a feature of hacking jackets (horse riding) that allow your jacket to fall naturally over the saddle. A formal suit would typically have a single vent, given the scarcity of horses in the city these days. These styles of dress have a history, and a weight of tradition behind them, which dictate how they should be tailored and whether, to someone who is sensitive to these things, you 'know how to wear the uniform', which is really a metaphor for whether you may someday belong in the old boys club.

Of course if you are on the continent everyone dresses like a wally in the name of fashion anyway, and the Italians have been butchering suits for footballers for so long now that a lot of people won't know any better.

Post: #22

(12-07-2015 02:33 PM)H1N1 Wrote:  

(12-07-2015 01:27 PM)Surreyman Wrote:  

(12-04-2015 06:18 AM)H1N1 Wrote:  Braces are an ESSENTIAL part of getting the trousers of a nice suit to hang properly. If you wear a belt with a suit you should take the belt out the belt loops, and repeatedly flog yourself with it until you promise never to do something so ill-judged again. If your trousers are to hang properly, not pool on the top of your shoe, then you need to wear braces. Do not listen to what some idiot on the internet has told you (he said, tongue in cheek), the guy is wrong.

Pocket square is a good thing, but it should be white (as should your shirt), with only the top 1cm or so showing. Nothing fancy, nothing flashy, a simple square fold to provide a tiny bit of relief against the monotone of your suit.

If you want the full guide:

Black shoes, polished to within an inch of their life. Your shoes must shine.

Socks should match the suit as nearly as possible. No bright colours.

Demure suit, nothing gauche, nothing overly tailored with funky lapels or any of that other 'fashionable' crap pushed by subversive idiots who hate the idea of actually looking like a gentleman.

Your shirt should be white. Black shirts are for sex offenders, don't wear them with a suit (or ever).

Braces - essential in my view. Nothing too wide, shaped, or loud. Should either be generic dark colour, or pair passably with your tie.

White pocket square to match the shirt, only a cm or so showing.

Tie - this is the place to introduce some individual flair should you so wish. Again, something classic with a twist is ideal. I have a variety of dark navy blue ties, with small, discrete animals on, or with spots on. At first glance this is a classic tie with some interest, it is only on close examination that it shows a touch of humour and flair. Dark ties with medium sized pink or white spots look fantastic too. If you wear a black tie, or a skinny tie, you should use it to hang yourself before the interview.

I really appreciate the knowledge you're dropping in this thread, especially since I work in a slightly less formal environment, so have little opportunity to see this for myself.

What do you think about fabric and colour choices? I'm going to assume you eschew plain black suits, but what about pinstripes? Also, would a slightly fuzzy flannel suit be appropriate in this environment?

I'm flattered you find it helpful.

Fabric is very much a personal thing, and is your chance to add discrete personal flair. For example, one of my favorite suits is a 3 piece in dark grey/charcoal grey with a very discrete herringbone pattern and a wide-spaced deep pink stripe that is a fraction of a millimetre wider than a typical pinstripe. It's at the very flash end of strictly traditional.

Plain black suits are for undertakers and footballers.

As for what is appropriate in IB, I don't know, I turned down the jobs in it that I was offered and have never had any exposure other than the interview rooms. What I would say is that I got every job I applied for with very well known global firms, and wore the above suit, or something similar, and along the lines I described in my earlier post. Every single partner that interviewed me complimented me on how I was dressed - I don't say it to brag, more to show that the guys at the top were not intimidated by it, or annoyed by it, rather they felt that having someone who presented like me representing their interests was an entirely positive thing for their business. As for flannel I have no idea, I suspect it is far too informal, I've never really come across a flannel suit as far as I'm aware in a business environment, but I run my own business and shag about in casuals most of the time.

There are lots of things with regards to suits that mark you out very quickly. For example, OP mentioned that his suit has a double vent. Double vents don't typically belong on formal city suits - they are a feature of hacking jackets (horse riding) that allow your jacket to fall naturally over the saddle. A formal suit would typically have a single vent, given the scarcity of horses in the city these days. These styles of dress have a history, and a weight of tradition behind them, which dictate how they should be tailored and whether, to someone who is sensitive to these things, you 'know how to wear the uniform', which is really a metaphor for whether you may someday belong in the old boys club.

Of course if you are on the continent everyone dresses like a wally in the name of fashion anyway, and the Italians have been butchering suits for footballers for so long now that a lot of people won't know any better.

I fully understand the concept of 'looking as you belong', it shows your ability to take cues from the correct people. I have a favourite phrase; 'It's okay to grow up in a council house, as long as people can't tell when they meet you'.

I'm very intrigued by what you said about single vents. I had always assumed double vents were the standard detail in suits in Britain and America, since they're so ubiquitous. Is this a recent development?

One last question: Windsor or four-in-hand? I would personally assume four-in-hand for Britain, but perhaps Windsor for Europe and America.

Post: #23

(12-07-2015 03:07 PM)Surreyman Wrote:  

(12-07-2015 02:33 PM)H1N1 Wrote:  

(12-07-2015 01:27 PM)Surreyman Wrote:  

(12-04-2015 06:18 AM)H1N1 Wrote:  Braces are an ESSENTIAL part of getting the trousers of a nice suit to hang properly. If you wear a belt with a suit you should take the belt out the belt loops, and repeatedly flog yourself with it until you promise never to do something so ill-judged again. If your trousers are to hang properly, not pool on the top of your shoe, then you need to wear braces. Do not listen to what some idiot on the internet has told you (he said, tongue in cheek), the guy is wrong.

Pocket square is a good thing, but it should be white (as should your shirt), with only the top 1cm or so showing. Nothing fancy, nothing flashy, a simple square fold to provide a tiny bit of relief against the monotone of your suit.

If you want the full guide:

Black shoes, polished to within an inch of their life. Your shoes must shine.

Socks should match the suit as nearly as possible. No bright colours.

Demure suit, nothing gauche, nothing overly tailored with funky lapels or any of that other 'fashionable' crap pushed by subversive idiots who hate the idea of actually looking like a gentleman.

Your shirt should be white. Black shirts are for sex offenders, don't wear them with a suit (or ever).

Braces - essential in my view. Nothing too wide, shaped, or loud. Should either be generic dark colour, or pair passably with your tie.

White pocket square to match the shirt, only a cm or so showing.

Tie - this is the place to introduce some individual flair should you so wish. Again, something classic with a twist is ideal. I have a variety of dark navy blue ties, with small, discrete animals on, or with spots on. At first glance this is a classic tie with some interest, it is only on close examination that it shows a touch of humour and flair. Dark ties with medium sized pink or white spots look fantastic too. If you wear a black tie, or a skinny tie, you should use it to hang yourself before the interview.

I really appreciate the knowledge you're dropping in this thread, especially since I work in a slightly less formal environment, so have little opportunity to see this for myself.

What do you think about fabric and colour choices? I'm going to assume you eschew plain black suits, but what about pinstripes? Also, would a slightly fuzzy flannel suit be appropriate in this environment?

I'm flattered you find it helpful.

Fabric is very much a personal thing, and is your chance to add discrete personal flair. For example, one of my favorite suits is a 3 piece in dark grey/charcoal grey with a very discrete herringbone pattern and a wide-spaced deep pink stripe that is a fraction of a millimetre wider than a typical pinstripe. It's at the very flash end of strictly traditional.

Plain black suits are for undertakers and footballers.

As for what is appropriate in IB, I don't know, I turned down the jobs in it that I was offered and have never had any exposure other than the interview rooms. What I would say is that I got every job I applied for with very well known global firms, and wore the above suit, or something similar, and along the lines I described in my earlier post. Every single partner that interviewed me complimented me on how I was dressed - I don't say it to brag, more to show that the guys at the top were not intimidated by it, or annoyed by it, rather they felt that having someone who presented like me representing their interests was an entirely positive thing for their business. As for flannel I have no idea, I suspect it is far too informal, I've never really come across a flannel suit as far as I'm aware in a business environment, but I run my own business and shag about in casuals most of the time.

There are lots of things with regards to suits that mark you out very quickly. For example, OP mentioned that his suit has a double vent. Double vents don't typically belong on formal city suits - they are a feature of hacking jackets (horse riding) that allow your jacket to fall naturally over the saddle. A formal suit would typically have a single vent, given the scarcity of horses in the city these days. These styles of dress have a history, and a weight of tradition behind them, which dictate how they should be tailored and whether, to someone who is sensitive to these things, you 'know how to wear the uniform', which is really a metaphor for whether you may someday belong in the old boys club.

Of course if you are on the continent everyone dresses like a wally in the name of fashion anyway, and the Italians have been butchering suits for footballers for so long now that a lot of people won't know any better.

I fully understand the concept of 'looking as you belong', it shows your ability to take cues from the correct people. I have a favourite phrase; 'It's okay to grow up in a council house, as long as people can't tell when they meet you'.

I'm very intrigued by what you said about single vents. I had always assumed double vents were the standard detail in suits in Britain and America, since they're so ubiquitous. Is this a recent development?

One last question: Windsor or four-in-hand? I would personally assume four-in-hand for Britain, but perhaps Windsor for Europe and America.

I have no idea on the development of the trend for double vents. They can be more common traditionally on a double breasted jacket, but again, this derives from naval uniform.

Four-in-hand. The type of people who use windsor knots belong on the apprentice.

Again, the whole purpose of the suit, as you know, is that it is a uniform - there is a correct way to wear it, and as I've said above, there are correct ways to vary it and add individual, discrete flair - eg cuffs that can be undone, with perhaps an extra button - but fundamentally to look smart and individual without appearing to have made any effort to have done so is the height of sophistication. An ostentatious knot on your tie is rather a blunt instrument, lacking any kind of subtlety. At such a natural focal point, it is quite a loud and brash statement, whereas to wear a suit well is to look incredibly refined. Looking effortlessly comfortable in uniform takes real panache to pull off, and it's done through subtle variations on the theme that delight the observer with their discrete flair, not through anything too obviously 'try--hard'.

Post: #24

(12-07-2015 08:17 AM)PhDre Wrote:  Thanks for the good advice.
I will be wearing this:

-suit (very classic): dark blue wool cashmere, single breasted, two buttons, double vent, notch lapel, regular lapel width, good jacket length, flat front pants, no trouser cuff, tailored, full canvas, horn buttons

-shirt: Thomas Mason light blue oxford cloth, point collar, tailored, very discreet silver cufflinks

-tie: brown, silk, 7-fold, good width, full windsor knot

...

That suiting sounds solid.

Point collars are best on round faces, but make long ones look longer. Do you have a navy tie instead? Brown tends to be a color to avoid on interviews. Orange is the worst color though. Above would look better with a navy tie and no square.

Braces are good for heavy gents, but might give off a Gordon Gekko vibe if visible and too contrasty. In any case, keep the jacket on to be safe.

Post: #25

I have no doubt that you know what you are talking about in a strict sartorial sense, however this is overdone for a beginner in suits.

Braces:
Sure, get them if you like them. But this is clearly not necessary. Especially, braces should be avoided when there are bell loops on the pants, but no brace buttons. Most RTW suits come with bell loops....

I am considering to get brace buttons on my next MTM suit, so I am clearly not against it in general. But I feel like, you empathizes this point way too much for a starter.

Double Vent or Single Vent:
Your explanation of the history is correct. However double vent is just the way to go in a business environment nowadays. Double Vent jackets are more comfortable and allow a more tailored suit.

If a young guy asks me for a suit recommendation for a job interview, regardless whether the interview is for an IB job or any other office job, my recommendation is simple:

Get a made to measure suit.

The fit of a suit is everything. Most people wear ill-fitting suits, so you already make a huge difference with a MTM suit.

Get a white shirt. Get a tasteful, but business like tie and add a pocket square.

This is already shows more personality than 99% of people in the room.

Braces, double / single vent and so on. All nice details and worth to consider, when you get your second or third suit.

But for the moment, your number one criterium is fit.

Do also not forget the accessories. Get a dress watch. Keep your shoes clean. Those details count.

Ray