Post: #1

Hey guys, I’ve recently posted in the Newbie forum and got great responses. Everyone is super helpful here. So I decided I would try to make a fitness thread as well on this site. I’ve been going to the gym consistently for over a year now however my gains have been pretty bad. I’m wondering how to fix that. This is a very long detailed post so if you don’t feel like reading it that’s fine.

Okay so my stats:
Start:
age:just turned 16
weight: 60kg
height: 182cm
deadlift:40kg
bench press:5kg x2 with dumbbells
squat:10kg small bar

Now:
age:17
weight: 87kg
height: 185cm
deadlift:135kg
bench press:50kg and 55kg decline
squat:80kg

progress pics: http://imgur.com/a/dMbHE First one is when I started, last two are now.

Sleep and diet:
I’ve been bulking on 3000 calories the whole time with macros 40p/30f/30c, tracked with myfitnesspal and the occasional cheatmeal. I’ve got 7-8 hours of sleep most of the time if I don’t have a week/few weeks where I feel really depressed and got trouble sleeping.

Program:
First 4 months I did stronglifts 5x5 when I was learning everything about lifting. I also read a whole lot about fitness and got a good idea about how to approach this.
Then I started doing PPL but I got shoulder problems and switched up my routine a few times. This is my current routine. I’ll do Pull Push (+abs) Rest Pull Push Legs (+abs) rest and repeat. so 2x Push 2x Pull 1x Legs each week, going 5x a week.

Push:
(Decline) bench press 3x5 (decline for shoulder health)
One handed landmine barbell press (this is replacement for incline bench, for shoulder health)
Tricep pulldowns 3x12
Face pulls 3x12 (for shoulder health)

Pull:
Dumbbell rows 3x8 (used to do pullups here but my shoulders react very bad to those even assisted)
T-bar rows 3x8
Bicep curls 3x12

Legs:
Squat 3x5
Deadlift 1x5
Abs 3x15

It’s very modified for my shoulders. I don’t have it on pull workouts unless I do pullups, but on push workouts about 30% of the time I have extreme discomfort on the shoulders/side of the pec. Like in this picture here. http://imgur.com/YdAReM7 It’s not pain. Just discomfort. I feel it about 30% of the time I bench press, it’s very inconsistent. However when I feel it I get like 3 reps less than I got last workout. And when I don’t feel it I often only progress like 1 rep every week making it very slow. Went to 4 different physios including a sports physio in the past 6 months and none of those have helped and didn’t really know what it was. Some of them didn’t even recommended stretches or anything. Here’s a form check for bench press with 40kg, I know I wasn’t locking out but that was because I was doing it really quick and I didn’t want to bother the guy filming me anymore. Normally I do lockout, and then I push the bar towards the rack, not in a straight line up. I retract my scapula and focus on bending the bar. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HP50BulfkoQ
I’ve posted this form check on bodybuilding.com as well and I don’t think my form is the problem. Because it didn’t go away I switched to dumbbell bench press. That helped for a few weeks. Then i got the same problem. I went to decline bench press, it helped for a few weeks, then it got the same problem. The general advice for this would be go to the doctor/physiotherapist however I’ve done that a lot and the problem always comes back.

To give an example my last 3 weeks of progress on decline bench press:
Workout 1 52.5kg x6
2 52.5kg x8 (good day)
3 55kg x5 (felt okay)
4 55kg x6 (felt okay)
5 55kg x6 (don’t know why I didn’t progress at all here, I ate and slept well.)
6 55kg x3 (the weird shoulder discomfort thing again)

As you can see that’s very slow progress. I’ve also had some problems with my knees but I think those are just growing pains. I have to go easy on the squats that’s why my squats didn’t progress much at all either. And since I’ve done PPL I do squats 1x a week not 3x a week. Only my deadlift progresses consistently. Maybe because I have long arms so benching is harder and deadlifting is easier.

So the main things are my shoulders really sit in the way of me progressing and if I have a few workouts where my shoulders don’t bother me I don’t really progress fast either. I know you guys aren’t doctors and stuff but the real life doctors/physiotherapists have been pretty terrible so I might as well give it a try here. My goal is to look good, but I know that I have to have strength as well to build muscle. Thanks for reading. If anyone has any advice regarding any of this I'd be glad to hear it.

Post: #2

I looked at your pics and this is MY answer.

The workout is not working for you, I would recommend the basics. Push-ups, Pull-ups, squats (no weight), sit-ups and more cardio.

At age 16 you should be able to eat anything and burn it off.

You have fat in your belly and under your chest (nipples). I see that you have gained 20kg in over a year, that is alot of weight and yet you still look skinny. I believe you have a ectomorph body type, I suggest looking at recommended exercises for your body type online.

I have been lifting for 20 years, I also tried stronglifts 5x5 workout and it didn't work for me. I got fat by doing it, I know others swear by it but they haven't posted their pics..

Post: #3

(01-07-2016 04:01 PM)ZeZay Wrote:  Hey guys, I’ve recently posted in the Newbie forum and got great responses. Everyone is super helpful here. So I decided I would try to make a fitness thread as well on this site. I’ve been going to the gym consistently for over a year now however my gains have been pretty bad. I’m wondering how to fix that. This is a very long detailed post so if you don’t feel like reading it that’s fine.

Okay so my stats:
Start:
age:just turned 16
weight: 60kg
height: 182cm
deadlift:40kg
bench press:5kg x2 with dumbbells
squat:10kg small bar

Now:
age:17
weight: 87kg
height: 185cm
deadlift:135kg
bench press:50kg and 55kg decline
squat:80kg

progress pics: http://imgur.com/a/dMbHE First one is when I started, last two are now.

Firstly, you have not made slow progress. You are a kid, and you've had a pretty good run at it so far. Don't be discouraged, you're ahead of the game, and in a year or two if you stick with it you'll be flying.

You say you've made slow progress, but I can't see anywhere that you've actually mentioned what your goals are, and how your progress compares to your goals. Do you have specific goals? Ie your goal for the year was to gain 20kg of weight, in which case you would have successfully met that goal (not necessarily a good goal, but a goal none-the-less).

(01-07-2016 04:01 PM)ZeZay Wrote:  Sleep and diet:
I’ve been bulking on 3000 calories the whole time with macros 40p/30f/30c, tracked with myfitnesspal and the occasional cheatmeal. I’ve got 7-8 hours of sleep most of the time if I don’t have a week/few weeks where I feel really depressed and got trouble sleeping.

Program:
First 4 months I did stronglifts 5x5 when I was learning everything about lifting. I also read a whole lot about fitness and got a good idea about how to approach this.

You haven't posted a picture of your legs, and stronglifts is mostly going to develop your legs. If you do a bottom half heavy program, and then assess your progress based on your top half, you will inevitably be disappointed. You have to give yourself the chance to see your real progress.

(01-07-2016 04:01 PM)ZeZay Wrote:  Then I started doing PPL but I got shoulder problems and switched up my routine a few times. This is my current routine. I’ll do Pull Push (+abs) Rest Pull Push Legs (+abs) rest and repeat. so 2x Push 2x Pull 1x Legs each week, going 5x a week.

Push:
(Decline) bench press 3x5 (decline for shoulder health)
One handed landmine barbell press (this is replacement for incline bench, for shoulder health)
Tricep pulldowns 3x12
Face pulls 3x12 (for shoulder health)

Pull:
Dumbbell rows 3x8 (used to do pullups here but my shoulders react very bad to those even assisted)
T-bar rows 3x8
Bicep curls 3x12

Legs:
Squat 3x5
Deadlift 1x5
Abs 3x15

Not brilliant. It could be worse, but you've sort of hit most things from most angles, so it isn't a waste. You can do better though, and that should be an aim for this year - to develop your understanding of programming. You have no chinups, which is a cardinal sin - I see they can hurt you, and we'll address this in the next section. Because I suspect you don't have a specific goal, your program is reflecting that, and consequently looks like an exercise/set/rep scheme that you put together based on what people on the internet say you should do, rather on the basis of trying to get closer to a particular goal that is your own.

(01-07-2016 04:01 PM)ZeZay Wrote:  It’s very modified for my shoulders. I don’t have it on pull workouts unless I do pullups, but on push workouts about 30% of the time I have extreme discomfort on the shoulders/side of the pec. Like in this picture here. http://imgur.com/YdAReM7 It’s not pain. Just discomfort. I feel it about 30% of the time I bench press, it’s very inconsistent. However when I feel it I get like 3 reps less than I got last workout. And when I don’t feel it I often only progress like 1 rep every week making it very slow. Went to 4 different physios including a sports physio in the past 6 months and none of those have helped and didn’t really know what it was. Some of them didn’t even recommended stretches or anything. Here’s a form check for bench press with 40kg, I know I wasn’t locking out but that was because I was doing it really quick and I didn’t want to bother the guy filming me anymore. Normally I do lockout, and then I push the bar towards the rack, not in a straight line up. I retract my scapula and focus on bending the bar. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HP50BulfkoQ
I’ve posted this form check on bodybuilding.com as well and I don’t think my form is the problem. Because it didn’t go away I switched to dumbbell bench press. That helped for a few weeks. Then i got the same problem. I went to decline bench press, it helped for a few weeks, then it got the same problem. The general advice for this would be go to the doctor/physiotherapist however I’ve done that a lot and the problem always comes back.

To give an example my last 3 weeks of progress on decline bench press:
Workout 1 52.5kg x6
2 52.5kg x8 (good day)
3 55kg x5 (felt okay)
4 55kg x6 (felt okay)
5 55kg x6 (don’t know why I didn’t progress at all here, I ate and slept well.)
6 55kg x3 (the weird shoulder discomfort thing again)

As you can see that’s very slow progress. I’ve also had some problems with my knees but I think those are just growing pains. I have to go easy on the squats that’s why my squats didn’t progress much at all either. And since I’ve done PPL I do squats 1x a week not 3x a week. Only my deadlift progresses consistently. Maybe because I have long arms so benching is harder and deadlifting is easier.

So the main things are my shoulders really sit in the way of me progressing and if I have a few workouts where my shoulders don’t bother me I don’t really progress fast either. I know you guys aren’t doctors and stuff but the real life doctors/physiotherapists have been pretty terrible so I might as well give it a try here. My goal is to look good, but I know that I have to have strength as well to build muscle. Thanks for reading. If anyone has any advice regarding any of this I'd be glad to hear it.

Part of the problem with your shoulders is probably genetic. You're a skinny guy naturally, with narrow shoulders. Genetically, you are not pre-disposed to moving heavy weights, which is ok, you can still get big and strong, you just may have to be a bit smarter than the guys who can look at a barbell and grow muscles.

It's impossible to tell whether your form is a problem from a bouncy 20kg sub-max set recorded from a bad angle. If the weight is sufficiently less than your max, which it is, it is meaningless to assess your form anyway, since you are under no strain.

The first thing to address is your shoulder. To keep doing exercises that hurt it, like bench, is madness, and you are setting yourself up for a debilitating injury later on. Fix that problem first. How many pushups can you do? You look like you could make a lot of progress on dips and pushups as your pressing work. The truth is that you do not look like you played a lot of sports, and you perhaps do not have an athletic background, so consequently lack a foundation of muscle and coordination that would be very helpful to another beginner in your position. That is ok, it's no problem to develop this, you just need to be honest with yourself about where you are now, where you started, and what you are hoping to achieve.

Finally on the shoulder, check out Ido Portal on Youtube, he has some great mobility work for shoulders that will help you deal with the pain.

You need to set yourself firm goals that allow you to measure success or failure over meaningful time-frames (c. 3 months, for example). What are you trying to get out of weight training? Without these goals you will not find a program that works for you. 'I want to look good' is not a goal. I want to be 80kg at 10% bf in 1 year is a goal (perhaps a good one for you).

I don't really want to put goals in your head, as your aims are your own, and it won't help you if I do. If I were in your position, I would consider a 3 month cutting period (there is a group recruiting here). You would look good for a kid your age if you lost 10kg. I would also consider setting some basic bodyweight goals: 50 strict pushups, 10 bodyweight chins, 20 bodyweight dips, that sort of thing. I promise that if you hit those sorts of milestones, your body and your strength would improve significantly.

I don't want to go on too much more. If you are sincere, as you seem to be, I will help you, as I'm sure will many others here. You have shown excellent dedication, and you seem like you would be a good person to coach, so I'm certain you'll find plenty of knowledgeable people here willing to help you.

Post: #4

i dont post here often, mostly lurk, but i see alot of my former self in you, so i'll throw in my two cents.

First off, you're naturally a pretty skinny dude. Genetically speaking, you need to get rid of the idea that working out will get you jacked (unless you stick with your workouts perfectly for 15+ years or go on steroids). Your workout is very regimented like a typical bodybuilding routine and you are measuring out your diet based on a "bulking" phase.

IMO you need to focus more on athleticism. Bodybuilding routines and bulking are designed for heavy men who move heavy weights.

The best thing you can do for yourself is to pick up a sport, particularly a combat sport like boxing or wrestling. I would advise against kickboxing, jiu-jitsu or other technical martial arts as they require a high level of coordination on a basic level,(ex: you cant start playing soccer quickly if you've never kicked a ball ever but you could pick up playing ultimate frisbee at a very basic level in only a few weeks even if youve never thrown a frisbee)

so I'll wrap this up for you as im tired of typing lol.

1. take 6 months off of any weight training to let your injury heal, or else you might have a nagging injury that will bother you for years to come.

2. Look into a boxing or wrestling gym. It will give you a competitive drive, you will be stronger and faster from a fight or flight response.

3. After healing your injury, start with a very basic program. Pullups, pushups, squats, shoulder press. Ditch the bench press. Try a dip assist machine. Don't follow reps and sets for gospel, the key is to always push yourself.

4. Don't bulk! skinny + bulking = skinny fat. Eat 3 solid meals a day and a protein shake before bed. and drink lots of water.

Post: #5

(01-07-2016 04:13 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  I have been lifting for 20 years, I also tried stronglifts 5x5 workout and it didn't work for me. I got fat by doing it, I know others swear by it but they haven't posted their pics..

Stronglifts is a beginners program. It isn't a good choice for someone who has been lifting for 20 years. It wouldn't have made you fat though. Only your diet could do that.

The internet is flooded with people who have posted their SL/SS pics, but you won't be impressed because they are all beginners. It's a beginners program after all. It's like expecting a virgin to read Bang and go out and fuck the hottest girl in the club.

With that said, I don't think it's the best program out there either, but people don't seem to realize it isn't a bodybuilding or intermediate/advanced program.

Post: #6

17 years old.

What sports do you play?

How did you injure your wrist and shoulder?

How many dips, chin-ups, and squats can you do?

Post: #7

No. Don't do stronglifts 5*5 just because its proprietor(?) Mehdi screams over every dissenting opinion and bits of evidence to the contrary. That fool wants curls and pushdowns outlawed.
I read the op. Doesn't seem to be much wrong with your programme. Hit the big compounds with some isolation work thrown in 2 or 3 times a week.
You probably have a lot of lower body gains. If being jacked is your goal, don't neglect the lower body, but for God's sake make the upper body your priority. Goal oriented workouts, my friend. Don't keep shooting free throws if you want to be the best pitcher.

Post: #8

Take some time off of lifting to get your shoulder fixed. As someone who has been through a debilitating shoulder injury, you do NOT want your shoulder issues to get to that point! If you're lifting at 16/17, you're ahead of the game. You'll have plenty of time to lift and get big. Get an MRI of your shoulder and make sure it isn't a tear.

Add some rotator cuff exercises in after you've taken some time off lifting to let it heal. These exercises saved my shoulder.









You can do these with a resistance band attached to a door anchor or with the cable cross machine at the gym.
Once you're lifting again keep these exercises integrated into your routine. You can either give them their own separate day or add them to the end of another workout. I added them to the end of shoulder day when I was doing a bro split, and at the end of push day when I was doing PPL during bulking season, and that seemed to work for me - now I have given them their own day.

Keep doing face pulls also, one of the best shoulder health exercises there is and a great way to develop the rear delts.

If you aren't already, supplement with fish oil and Super Cissus RX.

If you find bench press still hurts your shoulder --- I can't do it anymore after the aforementioned injury --- some good replacements are:
- floor presses with dumbbells - in my case, it was the backward hyperextension of the shoulder that is part of a bench press that really aggravated the injury. the floor press takes this backward hyperextension of the shoulder out of the equation at the cost of only about an inch of ROM
- weighted push-ups. you'd be surprised what an effective chest builder weighted push-ups can be. use a weight vest or plates in a backpack. do flat push-ups for overall chest development, decline push-ups for the upper chest, and incline push-ups for the lower chest.
- cable crossovers

"If [an exercise] hurts you, don't do it. I don't care how important the muscle rags say it is." - MikeCF

Post: #9

Don't get discouraged little fella... It very obvious to me you aren't doing enough exercises and enough variety during your work outs. I have been doing Push/Pull/Legs for about a year now with great results. On Push day I do about 3 or 4 exercises for chest, same for triceps, and around 3 for shoulders (I got bum shoulder to) For Pull day I do 4 back exercises and 3 or 4 bicep exercises and farmers carries cause they are the bees knees. Leg day I'm doing 4 or 5 exercises. You gotta break down your body if you want it to grow.... Break it down by throwing lots of weight, volume, and variety at it.
Switch it up and stick with it... gainz are lyfe bruh

Post: #10

(01-07-2016 07:45 PM)RioNomad Wrote:  

(01-07-2016 04:13 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  I have been lifting for 20 years, I also tried stronglifts 5x5 workout and it didn't work for me. I got fat by doing it, I know others swear by it but they haven't posted their pics..

Stronglifts is a beginners program. It isn't a good choice for someone who has been lifting for 20 years. It wouldn't have made you fat though. Only your diet could do that.

The internet is flooded with people who have posted their SL/SS pics, but you won't be impressed because they are all beginners. It's a beginners program after all. It's like expecting a virgin to read Bang and go out and fuck the hottest girl in the club.

With that said, I don't think it's the best program out there either, but people don't seem to realize it isn't a bodybuilding or intermediate/advanced program.

What programs do you recommend after 5x5? I'm not looking to lift more than 3 days a week. Anything that fits that time frame? I saw one in another thread but it was like 5 or 6 days a week in the gym. I had/get good results from 5x5 so I'm thinking I just want to do something similar.

EDIT - I don't do a straight 5x5 as is. I add in pull ups/chin ups, bicep work and dips. Probably should make my own thread but just looking for some links so I can research alternative programs. I'll check out the PPL.

Post: #11

Rotating upper/lower split is a very good split for bulking also.

UPPER: hitting the entire upper body with compound movements and a few select isolations
sample upper workout: bent over barbell rows, dumbbell floor press, rack pulls, weighted push-ups, alternating front/lateral raises, tricep pushdowns, reverse grip lat pulldowns (good sub for chinups if they bother your shoulder), face pulls, ab machine

LOWER: same thing for the lower body
sample lower workout: barbell front squats, calf raises, leg press, romanian deadlifts, captains chair leg raises, lying hamstring curls

rotator cuff work can be done on one of the rest days or at the end of one of the upper days

The first two weeks would look like this:

MON: upper A
TUE: rest
WED: lower A
THU: rest
FRI: upper B
SAT: rest
SUN: lower B
MON: rest
TUE: upper A
WED: rest
THU: lower A
FRI: rest
SAT: upper B
SUN: rest
MON: lower B

and so on. Workouts will be on different days every week due to the rotating nature of the split but you'll hit the upper body and lower body twice in a one-week period - frequency - and you get a rest day in between each workout day which is important. It's surprisingly effective to run for a month or two during a bulk once you plateau with whatever your current split is.

Post: #12

Thanks everyone, I did not expect to get so much responses. I'll answer when I get back home from school.

Post: #13

I would continue lifting but focus on general fitness and lower your expectations for gainz. Personal experience: I played strength-based sports all through high school, went through several lifting programs but never really gained any defined muscle until I was in college. You're real young, try out a lot of different ways to stress and tone your body and see what it responds to.

Post: #14

No reason for the kid to lower his expectations. He's tracking macros and counting calories. He's got a great future ahead of him. The programs mentioned might be a bit too advanced. Without proper form and mind-muscle connection who knows what could go wrong. He's got the noob gains ahead of him still. It's most likely workout density. More weight, more exercises, better splits. 4 days a week in the gym should be minimum

Post: #15

16 is quite young and you shouldn't stress it too much. Your body isn't ripped but you are still negotiating puppy fat until your testosterone levels peak out and you find out what it is really like to be a man!

You are ahead of the game because a lot of guys (especially those who don't play sports or compete) don't even start hitting the iron until twice your age when their metabolism stops cooperating and slaps them in the gut!

Diet plays a major part on body composition. I see you're in the Netherlands (unless you are spoofing the flag). What exact meals are you eating? You should be eating cooked meals. You say 3000 calories..of what? I would like a food diary, please.

Regarding the shoulder issues, have you tried aqua therapy such as swimming? I've taken it up recently and it can help with alignment due to the impact of gravity being removed in the water and equal forces bearing down on joints from all areas. Try swimming strokes that mimic the pressing movement as closely as possible. I'm no swimming pro but I'm really finding breast stroke causes my chest to scream in a positive fashion.

You can also try yoga. Fcuk what some guys say about yoga being for saps, I think it's a game changer in many ways. Either attend some classes at the gym (they are generally free in North America) or I know Europe charges for everything so you can just find a good YouTube video and try and go through the poses for about an hour, thrice a week.

So, I would say in essential order, do this:

1) Post your food diary

2) Try yoga and swimming. If you don't have the time to do both, do one of those activities three or more times a week. They will help with body alignment and possibly address that shoulder ailment. I say this since your physios have been wasting your time.

Post: #16

Do a 20 rep squat program for the next 8 weeks:
http://www.amazon.com/Super-Squats-Pound...0926888005

Post: #17

First of all I would decrease your calorie intake. 3000kcal at 60kg bodyweight was completely unnecessary for you and probably still is too much for your weight now. You gained a lot of body fat by doing this. 2500kcal would have been more than enough (assuming that you are a student and don't do other sports or work a physically demanding job). With your stats you could probably even build some muscle with a low calorie deficit. What's more, I don't think that any kind of split program is more effective for you than a full body workout. Especially your push pull routine that consists of only 1 or 2 exercises per muscle. You might as well just do a full body program three times a week with 1 or 2 compound exercise per muscle group, e.g. Squats, Bench Press, Dumbbell Rows, Deadlifts.

Post: #18

Granted I'm almost 30 years your senior, but it took me about 2.5 years of 5x5 3on4off to get the strength and stamina necessary to change to 6on1off - it was only in my 3rd year that I started seeing transformational changes in my physique. GVT is king.

At your young age you anything you do should make you look different as others may have suggested already (TL;DR) I would consider doing a full male hormone panel including total testosterone, free testosterone, estrogen, prolactin, shbg, psa and igf-1. You can ask your pediatrician for this.

Post: #19

Since you, if I understood well, have problems with the shoulders, try getting a massage (professional one of course) or go to the thermal baths, if you can afford these. Yoga will help you as well, but be aware that, in the West, a lot of classes are being diluted with New Age hippy crap. Therefore. make sure you find a good yogi, if you decide to practice it.

Post: #20

(01-07-2016 11:15 PM)YardDog Wrote:  

(01-07-2016 07:45 PM)RioNomad Wrote:  

(01-07-2016 04:13 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  I have been lifting for 20 years, I also tried stronglifts 5x5 workout and it didn't work for me. I got fat by doing it, I know others swear by it but they haven't posted their pics..

Stronglifts is a beginners program. It isn't a good choice for someone who has been lifting for 20 years. It wouldn't have made you fat though. Only your diet could do that.

The internet is flooded with people who have posted their SL/SS pics, but you won't be impressed because they are all beginners. It's a beginners program after all. It's like expecting a virgin to read Bang and go out and fuck the hottest girl in the club.

With that said, I don't think it's the best program out there either, but people don't seem to realize it isn't a bodybuilding or intermediate/advanced program.

What programs do you recommend after 5x5? I'm not looking to lift more than 3 days a week. Anything that fits that time frame? I saw one in another thread but it was like 5 or 6 days a week in the gym. I had/get good results from 5x5 so I'm thinking I just want to do something similar.

EDIT - I don't do a straight 5x5 as is. I add in pull ups/chin ups, bicep work and dips. Probably should make my own thread but just looking for some links so I can research alternative programs. I'll check out the PPL.

I went straight into MadCow 5x5 and brought my squat to 365x3, deadlift to 365x5 and bench to 240 or so. I had really good strength gains on MadCow.

If hypertrophy is your main goal I would probably go with something with more volume though. I like Lyle McDonald's Generic Bulking Routine. http://jcdfitness.com/2009/01/lyle-mcdon...g-routine/

You could alternate the two workouts 3x per week just like you did with 5x5. So week 1 would be ABA and 2 week BAB.

OR, if you are only concerned with aesthetics and feel your lower body is developed decently, you could hit upper body Monday and Friday with lower body Wednesday and just do 2x uppers and 1x lower per week. Squating and deadlifting heavy one per week will still give you gains, so it isn't like you're not training legs at all.

After I finish my cut I plan to try Waterbury/Chaos and Pain method though. http://chadwaterbury.com/full-body-training-part-1/

Post: #21

(01-07-2016 04:42 PM)H1N1 Wrote:  Not brilliant. It could be worse, but you've sort of hit most things from most angles, so it isn't a waste. You can do better though, and that should be an aim for this year - to develop your understanding of programming. You have no chinups, which is a cardinal sin - I see they can hurt you, and we'll address this in the next section. Because I suspect you don't have a specific goal, your program is reflecting that, and consequently looks like an exercise/set/rep scheme that you put together based on what people on the internet say you should do, rather on the basis of trying to get closer to a particular goal that is your own.

Part of the problem with your shoulders is probably genetic. You're a skinny guy naturally, with narrow shoulders. Genetically, you are not pre-disposed to moving heavy weights, which is ok, you can still get big and strong, you just may have to be a bit smarter than the guys who can look at a barbell and grow muscles.

It's impossible to tell whether your form is a problem from a bouncy 20kg sub-max set recorded from a bad angle. If the weight is sufficiently less than your max, which it is, it is meaningless to assess your form anyway, since you are under no strain.

The first thing to address is your shoulder. To keep doing exercises that hurt it, like bench, is madness, and you are setting yourself up for a debilitating injury later on. Fix that problem first. How many pushups can you do? You look like you could make a lot of progress on dips and pushups as your pressing work. The truth is that you do not look like you played a lot of sports, and you perhaps do not have an athletic background, so consequently lack a foundation of muscle and coordination that would be very helpful to another beginner in your position. That is ok, it's no problem to develop this, you just need to be honest with yourself about where you are now, where you started, and what you are hoping to achieve.

Finally on the shoulder, check out Ido Portal on Youtube, he has some great mobility work for shoulders that will help you deal with the pain.

You need to set yourself firm goals that allow you to measure success or failure over meaningful time-frames (c. 3 months, for example). What are you trying to get out of weight training? Without these goals you will not find a program that works for you. 'I want to look good' is not a goal. I want to be 80kg at 10% bf in 1 year is a goal (perhaps a good one for you).

I don't really want to put goals in your head, as your aims are your own, and it won't help you if I do. If I were in your position, I would consider a 3 month cutting period (there is a group recruiting here). You would look good for a kid your age if you lost 10kg. I would also consider setting some basic bodyweight goals: 50 strict pushups, 10 bodyweight chins, 20 bodyweight dips, that sort of thing. I promise that if you hit those sorts of milestones, your body and your strength would improve significantly.

I don't want to go on too much more. If you are sincere, as you seem to be, I will help you, as I'm sure will many others here. You have shown excellent dedication, and you seem like you would be a good person to coach, so I'm certain you'll find plenty of knowledgeable people here willing to help you.

Yeah, looking bad my progress isn't THAT bad, however it could definitely be a lot better. I've been going to the gym with a few friends who eat like shit and only go like twice a week doing random things like chest and biceps, and they seem to progress as fast if not faster than me on upper body.

I've also considered cutting, I think I would indeed look pretty good at like 10% bodyfat however I've always been embarassed for my lifts and don't think I could go a few more months lifting this weight, I'll probably lose strength as well because of the shoulder problems.

I do not really have specific goals, however I have a goal physique which is something like this:
which will probably take me a while to achieve.

I can do like 5 pushups. I used to be able to do like 10 when I was starting out however I've gained a lot of weight and my strength did not increase accordingly. My shoulder also kinda bugs me on pushups however I do not know if this is because I haven't done them consistently and instead did bench press or if it is the same problem. On the pushups I feel a lot of strain on my front delts, rather than the side pec on bench presses. I've also not played any sports until I was 15 years old. Before that I've done absolutely nothing and ate like absolute shit which is what you can see back in my 60kg physique 1 year ago.

I'll check out Ido Portal, thanks!

Post: #22

(01-07-2016 08:55 PM)redbeard Wrote:  17 years old.

What sports do you play?

How did you injure your wrist and shoulder?

How many dips, chin-ups, and squats can you do?

I played volleybal from 15-16 and then started lifting weights. 3 months in lifting weights I quit volleybal and focused 100% on the gym.

I didn't specifiy in my post I injured my wrist however I do have wrist issues from years of gaming. Also I'm not sure about my shoulder. Before I lifted there were already slight problems which I noticed whenever using my shoulders with volleyball. With lifting I don't think they've gotten worse because of all the extra mobility work I've done like shoulder discolations and stuff, but the problem is still there.

I can do 0 dips, never been able to do dips. Whenever I go down a bit in the parallel bar dip position my shoulders feel like hell. I can do one chinup, used to be able to do like 5 however my weight increased and strength didn't increase accordingly. I can't do pistol squats or anything if that's what you mean, I guess I can do a lot of bodyweight squats though.

Post: #23

(01-07-2016 09:48 PM)eatthishomie Wrote:  Take some time off of lifting to get your shoulder fixed. As someone who has been through a debilitating shoulder injury, you do NOT want your shoulder issues to get to that point! If you're lifting at 16/17, you're ahead of the game. You'll have plenty of time to lift and get big. Get an MRI of your shoulder and make sure it isn't a tear.

Add some rotator cuff exercises in after you've taken some time off lifting to let it heal. These exercises saved my shoulder.









You can do these with a resistance band attached to a door anchor or with the cable cross machine at the gym.
Once you're lifting again keep these exercises integrated into your routine. You can either give them their own separate day or add them to the end of another workout. I added them to the end of shoulder day when I was doing a bro split, and at the end of push day when I was doing PPL during bulking season, and that seemed to work for me - now I have given them their own day.

Keep doing face pulls also, one of the best shoulder health exercises there is and a great way to develop the rear delts.

If you aren't already, supplement with fish oil and Super Cissus RX.

If you find bench press still hurts your shoulder --- I can't do it anymore after the aforementioned injury --- some good replacements are:
- floor presses with dumbbells - in my case, it was the backward hyperextension of the shoulder that is part of a bench press that really aggravated the injury. the floor press takes this backward hyperextension of the shoulder out of the equation at the cost of only about an inch of ROM
- weighted push-ups. you'd be surprised what an effective chest builder weighted push-ups can be. use a weight vest or plates in a backpack. do flat push-ups for overall chest development, decline push-ups for the upper chest, and incline push-ups for the lower chest.
- cable crossovers

"If [an exercise] hurts you, don't do it. I don't care how important the muscle rags say it is." - MikeCF

I've already went to the doctor a few times and they didn't think an MRI scan was needed. I'll try those exercises when I go to the gym again, thanks. Not sure yet what to do. Most people are suggesting to stick with the basic bodyweight movements so maybe I'll do 3x a week full body calisthenics with squats and deadlifts.

Post: #24

(01-08-2016 03:33 AM)Moma Wrote:  16 is quite young and you shouldn't stress it too much. Your body isn't ripped but you are still negotiating puppy fat until your testosterone levels peak out and you find out what it is really like to be a man!

You are ahead of the game because a lot of guys (especially those who don't play sports or compete) don't even start hitting the iron until twice your age when their metabolism stops cooperating and slaps them in the gut!

Diet plays a major part on body composition. I see you're in the Netherlands (unless you are spoofing the flag). What exact meals are you eating? You should be eating cooked meals. You say 3000 calories..of what? I would like a food diary, please.

Regarding the shoulder issues, have you tried aqua therapy such as swimming? I've taken it up recently and it can help with alignment due to the impact of gravity being removed in the water and equal forces bearing down on joints from all areas. Try swimming strokes that mimic the pressing movement as closely as possible. I'm no swimming pro but I'm really finding breast stroke causes my chest to scream in a positive fashion.

You can also try yoga. Fcuk what some guys say about yoga being for saps, I think it's a game changer in many ways. Either attend some classes at the gym (they are generally free in North America) or I know Europe charges for everything so you can just find a good YouTube video and try and go through the poses for about an hour, thrice a week.

So, I would say in essential order, do this:

1) Post your food diary

2) Try yoga and swimming. If you don't have the time to do both, do one of those activities three or more times a week. They will help with body alignment and possibly address that shoulder ailment. I say this since your physios have been wasting your time.

My food diary

Breakfast C F P Calories
Whole Milk 250ml 12 9 9 165
Oatmeal 60g 35 4 8 225
Banana 30 0 1 124
Peanut butter 30g 4 17 7 196

Lunch
Cooked Chicken 200g 0 8 60 314
White Rice 100g 79 1 7 355
Eggs 3x scrambled 1 28 19 329
Olive oil 0 10 0 90

Dinner
Rice 100g 79 1 7 355
Salmon 150gr 0 23 30 330

Snacks
Kwark 20 0 45 260
2x Bread with cheese 40 7 13 288

Total 300 108 206 3031

This is what I ate/am going to eat today, not including veggies and fruits like mandarin that are only like 100 calories extra.

I've done a little bit of youtube yoga the last two weeks, like 10 minutes everyday. I feel like my posture has improved a bit. Not sure if it will help my shoulders as well though. I'll take swimming into consideration, didn't know it helped with the shoulders.

Post: #25

Your goal physique is far far and beyond what you should be aiming for. Did you even read my post. If you couldn't tell, that guy is an elite level gymnast, possibly an Olympian. Training for them starts at age 3 and he is in the top percentile of those pupils. Ironically, you should also be aware that a physique like that is largely achieved without free weights. Food for thought.