Post: #1

I got into game and the red pill 3 years ago this month.
It's my 3 year anniversary soon.

The most difficult part of that journey up till now for me has been killing off all my old beta habits. While I agreed everything Heartiste (Roissy), Rollo Tomassi, Roosh, the Red Pill, Neomasculinity and Game in general was telling me from the 1st day I found it…. implementing it in real life took much longer. I would find myself doing same stupid beta things even though I was now aware I was doing them. Rather than be able to transform overnight, I found I was only able to change my habits a few at a time slowly over the course of 3 years. Specifically I noticed that killing my beta habits was a step by step process.

For example – I immediately was able to change the way I spoke to, emailed and texted girls.
I started to make statements and demands rather than ask questions. “Shall we meet again?” instantly turned into “I want to see you again before the end of the week.”
Certain things like that were no problem.

On the other hand, things like pushing hard for a kiss (and sex) on the first date, or being able to control my temper and master frame control, took me a much longer time to be able to do.

In short, the beta I was for most of my life has refused to die quickly or quietly. It has been dying a slow lingering death for 3 years now. It has been gasping for air and going down fighting. Its stubbornness and resistance has really surprised me. It feels like a virus that must be hunted down and destroyed. Every time I think I’ve been vaccinated and made immune against it completely…. it pops up somewhere else. At the moment I feel I'm about 75%-85% there.

So I would like to hear from all of you who have been on the same journey.

How long did it take you to fully kill off all your old beta habits ?
How many of you are still in a struggle to try to eradicate it completely ?



And a question for our master players and innovative Casanovas:

Was there a day or moment in your life when you knew for sure all of the old beta within you was 100% dead and gone ?

Post: #2

There is no 100% dead and gone - nor would that be an ideal state to live in.

Alpha/beta aren't just two different types of men; they are two different facets of your character.

Even in nature, an alpha of a species will have it's beta moments.

Yes, a man is best off leaning far more to the alpha side than the alternative.

But my advice is stop thinking of the world in black and whites.

It's much more a spectrum than it is a dichotomy, and you'll be far more satisfied in life if you push for improvement instead of the myth that is perfection.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #3

I don't think you can ever fully eradicate the inner Beta. Self improvement can go a long way but I'm never going to become a " natural alpha".

Post: #4

It took about 8 years to become better with women since I started reading about game.

Post: #5

^ Ouch.

How bad were things when you started?

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #6

3 years through college. I became a raging misogynist come my junior year of college. Worked rather nicely!

Post: #7

Still have them and likely always will. That's fine.

Post: #8

There is no end to the struggle.

I still have some beta tendencies like getting slightly butt hurt when a girl I'm into doesn't reply back to my text.

I still compliment girls when they've done nothing to deserve it. Side note: Oddly enough, some do respond really well despite conventional game wisdom that they'll give a polite thanks and shut you down.

I still like taking girls out to dinner or cooking for them.

I still like cuddling girls after I fuck them. It's not in it me to just roll over with my back to them after I'm done.

I still hold out hope that I will find and marry a good wife, have kids, and live happily ever after.

I still wimp out on approaching... more than I care to admit.

Yes, I've come a long way, but I don't know if I will ever get rid of my beta tendencies that backfire and get me burned every now and then.

What I like to think, however, is that I'm smarter than I was 5 or 10 years ago. While my inner beta tries to rear its head in any given situation, I mentally step back and think 3 moves ahead, and step away from the road that only leads to trouble or unnecessary drama.

I also try not to be too hard on myself, reminding myself that it's a journey and that there is no end to the struggle.

Post: #9

I'm not sure it ever goes away 100%. Just as part of your DNA wants to go after that 9 and do unspeakable things to her, part of your DNA wants to provide as well.

Roosh talking about having to be a clown for girls might touch on this.

For me, it took about a year of making daygame in Atlanta a part-time job (on top of my then full-time job) to transform to an acceptable level. Some things that might have contributed:

1) Genetics and/or growing up in a patriarchal environment - my dad has pretty good control over his emotions
2) Growing up in a somewhat religious (Buddhist) household - "mindfulness"
3) Daygame itself, especially London-style - pretty nerve-wracking when you first start out, but you get desensitized
4) Age/experience - I got into Game in my late-20s
5) Lifting - Started at the same time I started Gaming

I personally wouldn't want all my Betaness to go away. Some of it will be useful in an LTR, and it's already useful when dealing with guys, since men are more logical and direct. I've known some guys who use the Game they use on girls with everybody, and it just comes across as unnecessary power-playing.

Post: #10

He sometimes raises his ugly head.

Post: #11

6 years and counting since started reading and applying red pill principles ... haven't killed all of my beta habits, don't think I ever will

Went from zero to spinning plates in the last 2 years to temporary ltr fwb situation

Post: #12

(01-11-2016 12:12 PM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  ^ Ouch.

How bad were things when you started?

I was sent to a boys boarding school in the middle of nowhere for 4 years. So I couldnt talk to girls after that.
I couldnt tell if a girl liked me.
I didnt understand shit tests, I thought women were bitches.
I lost my virginity to a hooker.
I had problems knowing when to escalate.
Went straight from hello to seduction.
I was similar to Sodini or Elliot Rodger.

Post: #13

Old habits die hard. You will never 100% get rid of it no matter how hard you fight it.

It's like a fat person who improved their life drastically and got in shape. Deep down you will still know how hard the struggle is to not fall back into the person you were in the past, and must actively maintain improvement or you will easily lose all the success you have worked so hard for.

Post: #14

I've been on this journey for 8 years. I'd say I've been reading about it for 5 years, and writing about it for three. Most of my best changes came in the last two to three years. Even so, though I am confident I am no beginner, I feel as if I'm barely making headway through intermediate. The lessons I learn now tend to be fewer and far in between, but more painful, at times.

G

Post: #15

Still trying.

Post: #16

I would say about 8 years.

The book The Game was released in September 2005 I remember reading it and thought what the fuck is this shit, some dudes putting women into a trance or doing all sorts of magic tricks while dressing like clowns. I read it recently and still feel the same, and still consider Neill Strauss to be a massive beta regardless of his writing (Mystery is a legend though). There were very few resources back than there are now for this stuff and it was embryonic at best which is why it took so long. I went through a journey of not being able to fuck a girl for 3 years to being able to fuck 3 girls in one day, go out with incredibly wealthy girls who would fly hours out of their own pocket to see me and become pretty solid in text and online game. This has required some serious hard graft and dedication to this.

This is a skill the more you put into it the more you'll get out.

I still have my beta tendencies on occasion. I see it as a good thing, a man who doesn't is a man who has lost his soul.

Post: #17

(01-11-2016 03:41 PM)Vincent Chase Wrote:  I still have my beta tendencies on occasion. I see it as a good thing, a man who doesn't is a man who has lost his soul.

Powerful statement right there.

I recently read a book by a married man (Athol Kay) who practices game and he prescribes a mix of both. More I think about it, more I think he's right. We want to aim for a balanced mix of both. What is the right mix for any given situation? That's the million dollar question.

Post: #18

We need to accept that there are very few natural alpha men. This is biology.

It is important to recognize that Beta tendencies are part of our evolution. They served an important purpose in attracting women. Most of them no longer serve this purpose due to societal and economic changes. Providing for women, being a "nice guy", chivalry, and politeness were rewarded in our past. This is why is is difficult to extinguish them because they served an important role in attracting women.

Changing behavior takes time, but it can be achieved with action and commitment.

It sounds like you have made progress. Don't get discouraged. We all have times when we regress. Keep focused and moving forward. Setting one or two small goals on each date that you go on is a nice way to make incremental progress. There aren't any shortcuts in life or Game.

Post: #19

As long as you always have quality options, you're ahead of the curve. That alone is more important than any score you'd get on an "alphaness" test.

Post: #20

I've been reading Heartise for three years now. It was a huge eye opener. I'm a lot less naive than I was several years ago. That being said, I haven't killed all my "beta" thinking in the sense that I don't view all women through a negative "they are all evil sluts" mindset which a lot of guys do after taking red pill. I love women for who they are, not trying to compare them to men. It would be unfair to women to view them via men's standards. That doesn't mean I don't believe in holding a strong hand in a relationship. A man can still show a little bit of beta and not be full blown alpha all the time, providing you have the right girl.

Post: #21

I've only been at it for a couple years, reading Roosh/Rollo/Roissy for just a bit less. Still struggle with perfectionism and catch myself thinking in black and white terms, still get a little oneitis for my ex-wife on bad days and blame myself for not controlling the frame or nipping problems in the bud. Then I remember the flipside of that reality- that her narcissism and BPD tendencies just slowly flew out of control very gradually over years, that I didn't even know about that stuff then and was able to educate myself after up and leaving, and that ultimately it's out of my control.
Sometimes I still feel like the kid I was in college who barely had any experiences and longed for a girlfriend, and then I remember that now I've got a couple plates and I'm generally able to bang girls on the first date when I get them out. Things always seems tough for me (except right after sex), but month by month I see improvements.

Post: #22

Quote:How long did it take you to fully kill off all your old beta habits ?
How many of you are still in a struggle to try to eradicate it completely ?

I don't think anyone truly kills them off unless they are a psychopath who never had them to begin with.

The "beta" traits show them what they want to see in small doses. Sort of how they want to see a sweet side from you once in a blue moon and even better if she feels it is only to her you would act in such a way.

Like another dude mentioned, I like having a girl use my arm as a pillow after we bang. Hell, I probably have the most candid conversations with them at that time.

Post: #23

From my prospective, a fight against our Inner Beta is something that never stops.

And that is normal - the creation itself is always a fight between the opposites. In religion it is Good versus Evil. In society it is Order versus Chaos. But in our case - it is Inner Alpha versus Inner Beta.

In my case, whenever I am inclined to act like a beta, I "drink one red pill" and then I act not like an alpha, but like a total alpha.

And I win. Usually. And anyone can do it. You have the knowledge. Put it to good use.

Here is a example.

Yesterday, I went to a bar with one of my best friends. He is a good blue pill guy and a hard worker, with a promising future. But...he has a bad habit texting his GF (and she is getting chubby - I am fat shaming her in a polite way - and she loves it) whenever he can. My inner beta wanted to let him text...but unfortunately for him, i "drank one red pill" and, suddenly, took his phone out of his hand. He made a WTF expression. I told him that I came out to chat an drink with him, and not to watch him texting his GF all the time. He took the lesson...too well. Maybe there is stil hope for him.

That is how I fight a inner beta. Remember, a Inner Alpha versus Inner Beta is a never ending struggle for us. That is how it is.

P.S I am not writing under influence of...any substances.

Post: #24

To make a authentic, happiness inducing, wonderful LTR work, you need the right balance of alpha and Beta traits.

I struggle to maintain the balance, sometimes being too much asshole and sometimes being too much pussy.

The right chick will give you feedback when you drift off the right balance in an LTR

Post: #25

I found ROK in the summer of 2014 and the rest of the Redpill/Manosphere shortly after. I've made excruciatingly slow progress. I'v gained much knowledge but putting it into practice has proved to be very difficult. I don't expect to drop 30+ years of bad habits in a few months but I was hoping for more progress by now. I'll stick to it though.