Post: #51

(03-15-2016 06:48 PM)AccF428 Wrote:   But it's not just her, this passion for a family that I never wanted took over. As if the sum is greater than the individual parts.

Yes, it's really the image of it that is crushing you. The "family" is a powerfully symbolic image of the unification of the opposites (masculine/feminine), coupled with you being the Lord of all Creation.

So powerful it's been driving people to get married and have children for thousands of years. But even in the best of ages past, the image fades away for them over time.

I know all of those words are of little help when this image seems so much like the answer. If you want to go for it, find another woman to do that project with. You've got plenty of time still, but don't let this illusion get in the way of being a Father if that's what you really want.

Post: #52

(03-15-2016 06:13 PM)Onto Wrote:  ^ Back then, right before I lost my job, I was already embroiled in a legal battle with her to see my son one day during the week in addition to my 2 1/2 weekends per month. Since day one we lived in different cities that were about an hour's drive apart. When he was old enough to enter Kindergarten I decided he really needed me there during the week so I could be more a apart of his education and make sure he would have a leg up, so I moved to the same city which now required me to drive an hour each way, every day to work and back.

She felt very threatened by this and refused to let me have him overnight during the week and in general made life even more difficult than it already was. I petitioned the court and was made to pay her lawyers fees to help her "defend" against me taking a more active role in my Son's life. Society and the media are always faulting Fathers for abandoning their kids, and here I am going through hoops to do the opposite. What happens? I lose and have to pay thousands in attorney's fees for her! Not to mention my own.

Where's the justice?

After that experience, then being laid off from job, and then losing the downward modification of support, I lost all taste for battle with her.

No I get it man, the battling is draining. Problem for men is that you're fighting battles on three fronts: your ex, the court system and friends, family society etc. All three are essential ganging up on you to squeeze you to death. For me honestly the two things that saved me in this divorce is the fact that I didn't and wouldn't move out despite facing enormous pressure to do so and the fact that I was emotionally over her ass. I truly didn't care one whit about her (and we were married for 19 years) so that made it easier to deal with her. She gets dressed up to go on dates and I just laugh at her ass, thinking who her next sucker is.

I feel your pain though Onto. In my mind the courts should default to 50/50 but of course that means less child support for the mom so you know that ain't happening anytime soon.

Post: #53

Doc, you make a great point about being over your ex-wife emotionally. I was also from Day 1 and found myself a new and better girlfriend right away.

AccF428 doesn't seem to be over her and that must make things very difficult for him.

When my Son's Mother got into an LTR with another guy it was a huge relief for me because she would then focus all her shit-energy on him. When she finally got married, she let go of her project with me completely. No more nasty emails, phone calls, etc. Her getting married was the best thing that ever happened to me.

Post: #54

(03-15-2016 07:25 PM)Onto Wrote:  Doc, you make a great point about being over your ex-wife emotionally. I was also from Day 1 and found myself a new and better girlfriend right away.

AccF428 doesn't seem to be over her and that must make things very difficult for him.

When my Son's Mother got into an LTR with another guy it was a huge relief for me because she would then focus all her shit-energy on him. When she finally got married, she let go of her project with me completely. No more nasty emails, phone calls, etc. Her getting married was the best thing that ever happened to me.

I always joke with people that since I'd be off the hook for the ex's alimony if she got remarried that I'd pay for her fucking wedding just to get her off my financial rolls once and for all. I'm sure her getting remarried is a huge relief for you. Just put your time in and I'll bet as your son gets older he'll want to spend more time with you and less with her. Court won't do shit about it then. Happens a lot since these women are bat shit crazy, especially with boys.

Post: #55

(03-15-2016 08:15 PM)doc holliday Wrote:  Just put your time in and I'll bet as your son gets older he'll want to spend more time with you and less with her. Court won't do shit about it then. Happens a lot since these women are bat shit crazy, especially with boys.

Doc, I'm very interested in how you are managing to live together (yet obviously not as a married couple). Doesn't she try to make your life hell at home?
I'm currently staying put also just so I am there when she does go bezerk on the boys, I feel if I am not there they are totally helpless and just being around getting abused along with them kinda supports them if that makes any sense.

Post: #56

(03-15-2016 09:14 PM)doodlebug786 Wrote:  

(03-15-2016 08:15 PM)doc holliday Wrote:  Just put your time in and I'll bet as your son gets older he'll want to spend more time with you and less with her. Court won't do shit about it then. Happens a lot since these women are bat shit crazy, especially with boys.

Doc, I'm very interested in how you are managing to live together (yet obviously not as a married couple). Doesn't she try to make your life hell at home?
I'm currently staying put also just so I am there when she does go bezerk on the boys, I feel if I am not there they are totally helpless and just being around getting abused along with them kinda supports them if that makes any sense.

I guess there's a few things I can say about it. Main thing I've done is simply not talk to her or respond to her at all when she tries to yell at me. I mostly communicated with her via text or email. This way there was a record of who said what.

Yes she has done things to make it hard for me like opening my mail, stealing stuff from my car, locking me out of the house, threatening to call the cops etc. I call her out but do so via email or text. You have to remember that any stupid shit she does can be used against her so that helps a bit in keeping her restrained.

But, I think the biggest factor in this whole thing is the fact that my kids are older. I have a 20 yr old off in college, an 18 yr old high schooler and almost 14yr old twins all of whom I have great relationships with. They all know how she is so any verbal arguing I ever do is when I have them as witnesses. Like I said,my right to stay on my property is constitutionally protected so I stay. Can't say it's been easy but I am where I'm at because of this strategy. Plus it's had the added bonus of driving her out of her mind which I have zero remorse over.

Are you married or divorcing? Makes total sense to me what you're doing.

Post: #57

(03-15-2016 10:16 PM)doc holliday Wrote:  I guess there's a few things I can say about it. Main thing I've done is simply not talk to her or respond to her at all when she tries to yell at me. I mostly communicated with her via text or email. This way there was a record of who said what.

Yes she has done things to make it hard for me like opening my mail, stealing stuff from my car, locking me out of the house, threatening to call the cops etc. I call her out but do so via email or text. You have to remember that any stupid shit she does can be used against her so that helps a bit in keeping her restrained.

But, I think the biggest factor in this whole thing is the fact that my kids are older. I have a 20 yr old off in college, an 18 yr old high schooler and almost 14yr old twins all of whom I have great relationships with. They all know how she is so any verbal arguing I ever do is when I have them as witnesses. Like I said,my right to stay on my property is constitutionally protected so I stay. Can't say it's been easy but I am where I'm at because of this strategy. Plus it's had the added bonus of driving her out of her mind which I have zero remorse over.

Are you married or divorcing? Makes total sense to me what you're doing.

Still married, 16yrs so far. It has only been very recent that I have entertained the idea of divorce and I have let her know that also. So far what you said makes sense....shes tried to kick me out/lock me out of the house, has called the police many times on me making things up and somehow by the grace of god they always believe me that I don't touch her and let me go. And it is true what you said that it can end up being used against her....last time it happened the policewoman put it on record that she lied to them so that it will help me out next time...she was a godsend and saw right through it. I've never even stayed out even one night when she tries to kick me out coz I do not want my kids to think I chickened out on them and I guess it also doesn't allow her to say i abandoned them. So I do feel like i'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. I have support of my family and funnily enough her family, well at least her father. So hoping he can help. Disclaimer...we are muslims, so the idea of the man leading the family and the wife being under him is in our heritage but just not in our current generation. Hence why my father in law can't believe what she is doing and happy for me to take a firm stance. So that is where I am at currently in a nutshell.

Post: #58

(03-15-2016 11:45 PM)doodlebug786 Wrote:  

(03-15-2016 10:16 PM)doc holliday Wrote:  I guess there's a few things I can say about it. Main thing I've done is simply not talk to her or respond to her at all when she tries to yell at me. I mostly communicated with her via text or email. This way there was a record of who said what.

Yes she has done things to make it hard for me like opening my mail, stealing stuff from my car, locking me out of the house, threatening to call the cops etc. I call her out but do so via email or text. You have to remember that any stupid shit she does can be used against her so that helps a bit in keeping her restrained.

But, I think the biggest factor in this whole thing is the fact that my kids are older. I have a 20 yr old off in college, an 18 yr old high schooler and almost 14yr old twins all of whom I have great relationships with. They all know how she is so any verbal arguing I ever do is when I have them as witnesses. Like I said,my right to stay on my property is constitutionally protected so I stay. Can't say it's been easy but I am where I'm at because of this strategy. Plus it's had the added bonus of driving her out of her mind which I have zero remorse over.

Are you married or divorcing? Makes total sense to me what you're doing.

Still married, 16yrs so far. It has only been very recent that I have entertained the idea of divorce and I have let her know that also. So far what you said makes sense....shes tried to kick me out/lock me out of the house, has called the police many times on me making things up and somehow by the grace of god they always believe me that I don't touch her and let me go. And it is true what you said that it can end up being used against her....last time it happened the policewoman put it on record that she lied to them so that it will help me out next time...she was a godsend and saw right through it. I've never even stayed out even one night when she tries to kick me out coz I do not want my kids to think I chickened out on them and I guess it also doesn't allow her to say i abandoned them. So I do feel like i'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. I have support of my family and funnily enough her family, well at least her father. So hoping he can help. Disclaimer...we are muslims, so the idea of the man leading the family and the wife being under him is in our heritage but just not in our current generation. Hence why my father in law can't believe what she is doing and happy for me to take a firm stance. So that is where I am at currently in a nutshell.

Sorry AccF428 I know we've gone off track from your original post but a lot of this stuff is still very relevant to what you're going through. Man doodlebug that sucks, even my wife when we were married didn't do that shit. The one big thing you have going for you is that your father in law is an old school Muslim who sympathizes with you.

In my mind you probably need to get medieval on this bitches ass - not physically of course but in every other way. If you can somehow leverage your fil''s support, you could be able to get her ass back under control. In any situation like this, every chick has a weak point you can exploit to keep her in check. You gotta find it and being married to her this long you should know her pretty well. Her tendencies, how she reacts etc. Find those areas of weakness and hit mercilessly there to try and control her ass.

My wife was unhappy for years and while I did what I could to keep her satisfied, I also never put up with any of her bullshit and I kept her in check for as long as I could. She still did her stupid shit but not to the level of your wife. Whatever you do, don't get physical with her (you're doing well there already it appears) but don't let her get away with any nonsense. Tell her you expect her to behave like an adult and do your best to maintain your frame.

Post: #59

(03-13-2016 10:48 PM)Samseau Wrote:  snip

Samseau is right don't quit on your son. Maybe the next 15 years are going to be rough, but once your son turns 18 he is free to do what he wants. You will still have many decades to be the father of your son. Hang in there.

Post: #60

(03-16-2016 12:17 PM)doc holliday Wrote:  Sorry AccF428 I know we've gone off track from your original post but a lot of this stuff is still very relevant to what you're going through. Man doodlebug that sucks, even my wife when we were married didn't do that shit. The one big thing you have going for you is that your father in law is an old school Muslim who sympathizes with you.

In my mind you probably need to get medieval on this bitches ass - not physically of course but in every other way. If you can somehow leverage your fil''s support, you could be able to get her ass back under control. In any situation like this, every chick has a weak point you can exploit to keep her in check. You gotta find it and being married to her this long you should know her pretty well. Her tendencies, how she reacts etc. Find those areas of weakness and hit mercilessly there to try and control her ass.

My wife was unhappy for years and while I did what I could to keep her satisfied, I also never put up with any of her bullshit and I kept her in check for as long as I could. She still did her stupid shit but not to the level of your wife. Whatever you do, don't get physical with her (you're doing well there already it appears) but don't let her get away with any nonsense. Tell her you expect her to behave like an adult and do your best to maintain your frame.

Yeh Sorry ACC, I don;t want to look like hijacking this thread. Hopefully it's all relevant. and thanks Doc I will take that advice actually...much appreciated. Yeh I don't get physical....which is a tough act when she does and I just have to take it. Back home all this is would be a no-brainer. any seperation and the kids get awarded straight to the father no questions asked like it should be.
Anyway thanks guys.
and ACC hang in there with your kid in anyway you can...you will not regret it.

Post: #61

Bad advice from me but I do get physical real fucking fast! The fact that I'm not afraid of jail/court/cops is a deturrent like cauliflower ear.

I respect you guys and going to splatter you with +1s

Be safe.

Post: #62

(03-16-2016 07:04 PM)doodlebug786 Wrote:  

(03-16-2016 12:17 PM)doc holliday Wrote:  Sorry AccF428 I know we've gone off track from your original post but a lot of this stuff is still very relevant to what you're going through. Man doodlebug that sucks, even my wife when we were married didn't do that shit. The one big thing you have going for you is that your father in law is an old school Muslim who sympathizes with you.

In my mind you probably need to get medieval on this bitches ass - not physically of course but in every other way. If you can somehow leverage your fil''s support, you could be able to get her ass back under control. In any situation like this, every chick has a weak point you can exploit to keep her in check. You gotta find it and being married to her this long you should know her pretty well. Her tendencies, how she reacts etc. Find those areas of weakness and hit mercilessly there to try and control her ass.

My wife was unhappy for years and while I did what I could to keep her satisfied, I also never put up with any of her bullshit and I kept her in check for as long as I could. She still did her stupid shit but not to the level of your wife. Whatever you do, don't get physical with her (you're doing well there already it appears) but don't let her get away with any nonsense. Tell her you expect her to behave like an adult and do your best to maintain your frame.

Yeh Sorry ACC, I don;t want to look like hijacking this thread. Hopefully it's all relevant. and thanks Doc I will take that advice actually...much appreciated. Yeh I don't get physical....which is a tough act when she does and I just have to take it. Back home all this is would be a no-brainer. any seperation and the kids get awarded straight to the father no questions asked like it should be.
Anyway thanks guys.
and ACC hang in there with your kid in anyway you can...you will not regret it.

It's all good guys. If anyone can get anything out of this thread beyond my original post, I'm happy. I think you guys have all helped me get my head on top of my shoulders, and I sincerely appreciate your wisdom, insight, and knowledge. I just need to get my head straight and focused.

It came to me today, as I was spiraling downward. I kept thinking to myself, this shit keeps getting worse, and I wasn't sure how to get over the grieving. I read the first chapter of the book gorilla mindset, kept reviewing the forum, tried working out, making sure I ate healthy. My mind wasn't having it. I kept thinking about how this bitch betrayed long term goals for her short term pleasures.

Then it came to me. I was letting my emotions fuck me over the past couple of years. I was ruled by my passion, my hate, my anger, and making decisions based on what I felt, because the women around me complained that I was too logical, too unemotional. I tried to become what they wanted. I lost myself. My game got shitty, my social life fucked, and I slowly became more and more beta. I mean, when I went after my child's mother, it was only to use her for my sexual needs. She acted like a slut, and then the next thing I know I was trying to wife her.

The point is, I began to make decisions using my emotions, and it fucked me over. It fucked me over in my already shitty relationship, it set me behind when I needed to do what I needed to do, and I was heading towards a place where because of my feelings of resentment, I was making the next decision of not being in my son's life. When I realized this, clarity came. My pain lessened. I don't know for how long it will stay with me. But I feel a hell of a lot better already.

Just a related piece of text that I wanted to share from a book I'm reading:

“The most important of these skills, and power’s crucial foundation, is the ability to master your emotions. An emotional response to a situation is the single greatest barrier to power, a mistake that will cost you a lot more than any temporary satisfaction you gain by expressing your feelings. Emotions cloud reason, and if you cannot see the situation clearly, you cannot prepare for and respond to it with any degree of control.
Anger is the most destructive of emotional responses, for it clouds your vision the most. It also has a ripple effect that invariably makes situations less controllable and heightens your enemy’s resolve. If you are trying to destroy an enemy who has hurt you, far better to keep him off-guard by feigning friendliness than showing your anger.
Love and affection are also potentially destructive, in that they blind you to the often self-serving interests of those whom you least“suspect of playing a power game. You cannot repress anger or love, or avoid feeling them, and you should not try. But you should be careful about how you express them, and most important, they should never influence your plans and strategies in any way.”

Excerpt From: Greene, Robert. “The 48 Laws of Power.” PENGUIN group, 2015-11-30. iBooks.
This material may be protected by copyright.

Post: #63

Yeah keeping your emotions in check is critical in these situation, hell in any crisis for that matter. See that's the one thing, all women are highly emotional so if you keep your emotions in check and she sees that, her emotions go wild and crazy. Subconsciously, they'll see they're not affecting you with their bs and their hamster wheel spins out of control. All of a sudden you have power over them and they won't know what hit them.

As I've said, I've put my soon to be ex through hell just by not giving a shit and keeping my emotions in check. Whenever I did feel angry or upset, I never showed it, I just ate it. Worked well so far and it's been 19 months of this.

ACC your on the right track, get over her ASAP and fight like a motherfucker to stay in your kids life. Even if she has sole custody, get ample parenting time so that custody thing won't matter too much. Doodlebug, if she continues to physically assault her, video it, record it, whatever and then threaten to have her ass arrested or get her kicked out with a protective order. Talk to a lawyer if you need to about this. i wouldn't take that shit at all.

El mech, thanks for the rep, we need to encourage more men to fight back. To fight back hard and dirty with no remorse. But yeah I think I'll forgo the physical violence part (though I was fully prepared to go to jail if I decided I needed to defy a court order but fortunately that hasn't happened. Yet.).

Post: #64

(03-17-2016 02:05 PM)doc holliday Wrote:  Yeah keeping your emotions in check is critical in these situation, hell in any crisis for that matter. See that's the one thing, all women are highly emotional so if you keep your emotions in check and she sees that, her emotions go wild and crazy. Subconsciously, they'll see they're not affecting you with their bs and their hamster wheel spins out of control. All of a sudden you have power over them and they won't know what hit them.

As I've said, I've put my soon to be ex through hell just by not giving a shit and keeping my emotions in check. Whenever I did feel angry or upset, I never showed it, I just ate it. Worked well so far and it's been 19 months of this.

That's precisely what happened! Just on January 28th she was telling me to think about therapy, and after rejecting her, she was telling me to think about it, and reassured me that she'll still be open to it were I to change my mind. I contact her a couple of weeks later, and then she was telling me the ship sailed. I went crazy, and she was as cold as ice. Bitch told me to meditate, and take a couple of months off before dating someone new, unlike her. I don't think I'll ever forget that lesson.

Post: #65

You've gotta know when to hold them, and know when to fold them.

Fight as hard as you can. And then stop.

Do not crash your life onto an ice berg for this. Fight as hard as you can for your son, but not for justice or vindication; you will find none in this world. And when you fight, never put your integrity on the line. If the price of seeing your son is confessing to a crime you didn't commit, attending anger management classes or otherwise legitimizing a corrupt state - don't.

Your son needs a man. Not a bitch on a leash held by the state.

I sincerely hope it doesn't come to that; that your story is like one of the other inspirational stories here; but at the end of the day you're nothing but mud, blood, and dignity. The first two will always fail you, all that really matters is the third. Don't sell it at any price.

Post: #66

(03-17-2016 03:21 PM)AccF428 Wrote:  

(03-17-2016 02:05 PM)doc holliday Wrote:  Yeah keeping your emotions in check is critical in these situation, hell in any crisis for that matter. See that's the one thing, all women are highly emotional so if you keep your emotions in check and she sees that, her emotions go wild and crazy. Subconsciously, they'll see they're not affecting you with their bs and their hamster wheel spins out of control. All of a sudden you have power over them and they won't know what hit them.

As I've said, I've put my soon to be ex through hell just by not giving a shit and keeping my emotions in check. Whenever I did feel angry or upset, I never showed it, I just ate it. Worked well so far and it's been 19 months of this.

That's precisely what happened! Just on January 28th she was telling me to think about therapy, and after rejecting her, she was telling me to think about it, and reassured me that she'll still be open to it were I to change my mind. I contact her a couple of weeks later, and then she was telling me the ship sailed. I went crazy, and she was as cold as ice. Bitch told me to meditate, and take a couple of months off before dating someone new, unlike her. I don't think I'll ever forget that lesson.

Never engage in any conversation where someone is telling you where to go or what you need to do.

Post: #67

(03-17-2016 04:39 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

(03-17-2016 03:21 PM)AccF428 Wrote:  

(03-17-2016 02:05 PM)doc holliday Wrote:  Yeah keeping your emotions in check is critical in these situation, hell in any crisis for that matter. See that's the one thing, all women are highly emotional so if you keep your emotions in check and she sees that, her emotions go wild and crazy. Subconsciously, they'll see they're not affecting you with their bs and their hamster wheel spins out of control. All of a sudden you have power over them and they won't know what hit them.

As I've said, I've put my soon to be ex through hell just by not giving a shit and keeping my emotions in check. Whenever I did feel angry or upset, I never showed it, I just ate it. Worked well so far and it's been 19 months of this.

That's precisely what happened! Just on January 28th she was telling me to think about therapy, and after rejecting her, she was telling me to think about it, and reassured me that she'll still be open to it were I to change my mind. I contact her a couple of weeks later, and then she was telling me the ship sailed. I went crazy, and she was as cold as ice. Bitch told me to meditate, and take a couple of months off before dating someone new, unlike her. I don't think I'll ever forget that lesson.

Never engage in any conversation where someone is telling you where to go or what you need to do.

That's very good advice. The whole thing is like a dance between two people. She get's you worked up, you react, you do something to get her worked up, she reacts, etc. And the dance ensues.

What you want to do is stop the dance altogether. You do this by not engaging with her anymore. Thing is, once you stop engaging, she will up the ante and say/do something even more outrageous to get you to engage.

You have to resist the temptation. Don't respond to her threatening emails/texts/phone calls. That is her invitation to dance. If you must respond, do it in a sentence and business-like.

Eventually she will give up. As they say, it takes two to tango and if you decide not to dance anymore she will be left all by herself.

If you stop engaging and become cool, collected, and business-oriented in your relation to her, I wouldn't be surprised if she then finds you attractive again and tries to get you back into a relationship with her. Not saying she will, but it's a possibility.

Also not saying you should get back together with her if she does either. That shouldn't be the goal.

You will be amazed how much power you will gain over her and for yourself by mastering the art of not engaging.

Post: #68

^ Even my employees try to tell me how to run my shit but left alone they can't make one fucking dollar but can spend a thousand to be confused.

Someone could make a thread about that alone and this is the best place for the answers

The problem is that if you are not the type of person before you cannot make the transition in one minute maybe you can in your head but for people that really know you its just going to seem out of character and thell use shaming technichs against you.

Autocorrect sp

Post: #69

(03-17-2016 02:05 PM)doc holliday Wrote:  ACC your on the right track, get over her ASAP and fight like a motherfucker to stay in your kids life. Even if she has sole custody, get ample parenting time so that custody thing won't matter too much. Doodlebug, if she continues to physically assault her, video it, record it, whatever and then threaten to have her ass arrested or get her kicked out with a protective order. Talk to a lawyer if you need to about this. i wouldn't take that shit at all.

ACC I agree with this, any time...ample or little is still worth it. The kid will be able to say I have a father. My son has a same aged friend whom the father left and slowly winded down on his contact until now where the poor kid doesn't know when he will hear from him again and therefore thinks his life is miserable (that was their exact words). So even if you get 1 hour a month, and the boy knows you will always be there for that one hour that will be enough for him to love the heck out of you and stay healthy. Just do not disappear on him.

and Doc, thanks for the advice. yeh I threatened I will get her arrested next time but I do not think I will ever do it unless it gets super crazy. Trying to find a balance where I can keep her sane so at least no matter what happens the boys will be able to have a decent relationship with her. sheeeesh thats the difference between fathers and mothers isn't it. The father will still want the mother in the kids life somehow but if left to the mother she will try her best to cut the father off. Hence why custody should always go to the father no questions asked....and i mean no questions.