Post: #1

I was just affected by this today, it has completely ruined my Easter Holidays of which I was using to visit my family, here is some random articles about it:

http://www.thejournal.ie/ryanair-flight-...7-Mar2016/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...chaos.html

http://www.cityam.com/237207/british-air...rol-strike

Easyjet, British Airways and Ryanair all affected by this, while it's likely I will receive a refund on the flight, due to using different airlines to complete my return journey I've still come out at a pretty big loss.

This of course has a knock-on effect of congesting all other flights and connections for the next few weeks, meaning I couldn't even find a suitable alternative for another week and a half.

This was completely selfish, I can't believe these people for thinking this was a suitable time for a strike, let alone to strike at all, they have stranded regular people, financially robbed them and I bet there are plenty of cases of people being effectively homeless for awhile due to this. The corporations won't lose out on this as much as the normal folks will.

Anyone else get struck by this?

Post: #2

(03-20-2016 05:42 PM)NewMeta Wrote:  This was completely selfish, I can't believe these people for thinking this was a suitable time for a strike, let alone to strike at all, they have stranded regular people, financially robbed them and I bet there are plenty of cases of people being effectively homeless for awhile due to this. The corporations won't lose out on this as much as the normal folks will.

Welcome to France. Where things never get done and you can strike whenever you please.

Next time Germany invades France I think we should let them have it, at least the trains, planes and harbours won't suffer strike action.

Post: #3

French are pros at striking.

Whenever the chance happens, they will take it.

Post: #4

Reminds of one scene from an old YouTube video.

Post: #5

Didnt Reagan fire a bunch of striking ATC back in da days?

Post: #6

(03-21-2016 05:25 AM)Buakaw Wrote:  Didnt Reagan fire a bunch of striking ATC back in da days?

In 1981, the ATC trade union "PATCO" declared a general strike, crippling US aviation. Four hours later Reagan reminded them in no uncertain terms that as federal employees, they were breaking a slew of laws, and ordered them back to work within 48 hours or face termination. Union strike funds were seized, the FBI indicted the union leaders, and when the deadline came to pass, Reagan dropped the hammer on the remaining 12,000 strikers. He fired them and banned them from civil service for life, every last one.

Many consider it the most important domestic decision Reagan made in office, and politicians, historians, and businessmen alike cite the President's reaction to the ATC strike as not only one of the clearest examples of Presidential leadership, but also a defining moment in the modern relationship between unions and their employers.

I understand that striking is an important part of French cultural history, but allowing leftists to constantly bully the government and the people is quite shameful. We all know where Hollande sits on the political spectrum. He and his lot are true masochists.

Post: #7

(03-21-2016 09:16 AM)Space Cowboy Wrote:  

(03-21-2016 05:25 AM)Buakaw Wrote:  Didnt Reagan fire a bunch of striking ATC back in da days?

In 1981, the ATC trade union "PATCO" declared a general strike, crippling US aviation. Four hours later Reagan reminded them in no uncertain terms that as federal employees, they were breaking a slew of laws, and ordered them back to work within 48 hours or face termination. Union strike funds were seized, the FBI indicted the union leaders, and when the deadline came to pass, Reagan dropped the hammer on the remaining 12,000 strikers. He fired them and banned them from civil service for life, every last one.

Many consider it the most important domestic decision Reagan made in office, and politicians, historians, and businessmen alike cite the President's reaction to the ATC strike as not only one of the clearest examples of Presidential leadership, but also a defining moment in the modern relationship between unions and their employers.

I understand that striking is an important part of French cultural history, but allowing leftists to constantly bully the government and the people is quite shameful. We all know where Hollande sits on the political spectrum. He and his lot are true masochists.

If the French weren't pussies they would do the same. Airline service is an essential function of a high production economy.

Post: #8

This is why I try to avoid flying European Airlines, particularly French and German ones.

Post: #9

(03-21-2016 12:32 PM)Brodiaga Wrote:  This is why I try to avoid flying European Airlines, particularly French and German ones.

Problem is that it doesn't need to be a European airline, you merely need to be flying through french airspace, essentially you have to avoid flying over Europe!



Image shows just show much passes over France, look at the routes coming in over from the Atlantic, a lot of the East Coast traffic passes over Greenland and Ireland before dropping into Europe.

As for the french, seems they have form for doing this over the Easter holidays, it's madness how they can be allowed to interrupt people's live likes this, having a single global air traffic service provider that could allow remote operators to pick up the slack in areas would be a much more slick operation.

Post: #10

(03-21-2016 09:16 AM)Space Cowboy Wrote:  

(03-21-2016 05:25 AM)Buakaw Wrote:  Didnt Reagan fire a bunch of striking ATC back in da days?

In 1981, the ATC trade union "PATCO" declared a general strike, crippling US aviation. Four hours later Reagan reminded them in no uncertain terms that as federal employees, they were breaking a slew of laws, and ordered them back to work within 48 hours or face termination. Union strike funds were seized, the FBI indicted the union leaders, and when the deadline came to pass, Reagan dropped the hammer on the remaining 12,000 strikers. He fired them and banned them from civil service for life, every last one.

Many consider it the most important domestic decision Reagan made in office, and politicians, historians, and businessmen alike cite the President's reaction to the ATC strike as not only one of the clearest examples of Presidential leadership, but also a defining moment in the modern relationship between unions and their employers.

I understand that striking is an important part of French cultural history, but allowing leftists to constantly bully the government and the people is quite shameful. We all know where Hollande sits on the political spectrum. He and his lot are true masochists.

This is how a nations leader should play ball with those who think nothing of disrupting millions of people.

The Underground strike in London affected the whole capital, rendering it a massive traffic jam and all because the drivers, who were earning in excess of 50,000 GDP a year plus other goodies, didn;t want to work night shifts as it was deemed un-sociable.

Guess what happened? They got a pay rise and other conditions attached.

Thousands of people unemployed in London who would kill for such a salary and they tow the line with them.

Boris Johnson should have trained up other people and sacked them all afterwards.

Post: #11

Striking and protesting is a national hobby here. Transport strikes fuck up buses and trains around the country probably once a month. I've never understood it.

Post: #12

I like employee strikes. At least they don't bend over and take it up the ass like workers in North America do.

Cry me a river if you missed your flight. The world didn't end.

Post: #13

(03-21-2016 05:53 PM)TigerMandingo Wrote:  I like employee strikes. At least they don't bend over and take it up the ass like workers in North America do.

Cry me a river if you missed your flight. The world didn't end.

Yeah good job these strikes are doing, really sticking it to the establishment by hurting thousands of regular working class people. Yeah they really showed us how much they dont take it up the ass.

Post: #14

(03-21-2016 05:27 PM)InsertNameHere Wrote:  Striking and protesting is a national hobby here. Transport strikes fuck up buses and trains around the country probably once a month. I've never understood it.

Easy to understand: syndicalists for the trains or buses (SNCF, RATP syndicalists) are useless, parasitic communists. No more needs to be said of them.

Post: #15

Entry level airline pilots make as little as 18-23k in the US due to the inability of their union to strike.

Post: #16

(03-22-2016 02:04 AM)RIslander Wrote:  Entry level airline pilots make as little as 18-23k in the US due to the inability of their union to strike.

I don't know about you, but I don't think I want to fly on a plane where the pilot is living at poverty level. I want my pilot focused on flying the plane, not wondering where his next meal is coming from.

Post: #17

Why did they strike?

Post: #18

(03-22-2016 03:32 AM)porscheguy Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 02:04 AM)RIslander Wrote:  Entry level airline pilots make as little as 18-23k in the US due to the inability of their union to strike.

I don't know about you, but I don't think I want to fly on a plane where the pilot is living at poverty level. I want my pilot focused on flying the plane, not wondering where his next meal is coming from.

No. Entry-level airline pilots make so little because:

1) Supply - lots of people want to be an airline pilot, even at those wages.

2) Demand - most airlines are now switching to larger jets, after trying regional jets in the 90s and 00s. Less jets for roughly the same amount of passengers means less need for pilots.

3) The actual job - your pilots are only in direct control of the aircraft for the first few minutes of take-off and landing - the most crucial parts. In between then, a computer basically flies the aircraft.

4) Union leadership biasing pay to itself - since union leadership consists of senior pilots, is it really a surprise when they demand that senior pilots be paid six figures, while junior pilots starve?

Of course, if you want to fly an airline where entry-level pilots are paid more, feel free to start one of your own. Good luck getting anyone else to pay for that though.

Post: #19

(03-22-2016 03:32 AM)porscheguy Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 02:04 AM)RIslander Wrote:  Entry level airline pilots make as little as 18-23k in the US due to the inability of their union to strike.

I don't know about you, but I don't think I want to fly on a plane where the pilot is living at poverty level. I want my pilot focused on flying the plane, not wondering where his next meal is coming from.

That's the starting salary for first officer, not the captain - and generally it's the short range props.

Pilots are more than willing to accept the low entry-level salary because they know that, with a few years of experience, the salary goes up quickly. And, while most airlines don't pay for flight school anymore, they do pay for a lot of other training.

If airline pilots had the same attitude as most other workers, they would demand higher starting salaries, full flight school training and no night flights - then get outraged and demand government action when they get replaced by Mexicans, Indians or trained monkeys.

Post: #20

(03-21-2016 05:53 PM)TigerMandingo Wrote:  I like employee strikes. At least they don't bend over and take it up the ass like workers in North America do.

Cry me a river if you missed your flight. The world didn't end.

French workers strike over the weakest of arguments and even if they're feelings are hurt. North America has ultra capitalism which should be brought back into line but they were powerful and strike-happy like the French before changes were brought.

Two extremes.

Missing a flight is a pain in the ass and fucks up your entire week.

Post: #21

(03-22-2016 12:29 PM)Captainstabbin Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 03:32 AM)porscheguy Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 02:04 AM)RIslander Wrote:  Entry level airline pilots make as little as 18-23k in the US due to the inability of their union to strike.

I don't know about you, but I don't think I want to fly on a plane where the pilot is living at poverty level. I want my pilot focused on flying the plane, not wondering where his next meal is coming from.

That's the starting salary for first officer, not the captain - and generally it's the short range props.

Pilots are more than willing to accept the low entry-level salary because they know that, with a few years of experience, the salary goes up quickly. And, while most airlines don't pay for flight school anymore, they do pay for a lot of other training.

If airline pilots had the same attitude as most other workers, they would demand higher starting salaries, full flight school training and no night flights - then get outraged and demand government action when they get replaced by Mexicans, Indians or trained monkeys.

There's still a problem here. I can get a job driving a bus for DC Metro making more money to start out and for at least the first several years.

Post: #22

Post: #23

I wonder if this strike may of saved some lives with flights being cancelled or maybe led to some lives being lost from the Brussels attacks.

Post: #24

(03-22-2016 06:11 AM)262 Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 03:32 AM)porscheguy Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 02:04 AM)RIslander Wrote:  Entry level airline pilots make as little as 18-23k in the US due to the inability of their union to strike.

I don't know about you, but I don't think I want to fly on a plane where the pilot is living at poverty level. I want my pilot focused on flying the plane, not wondering where his next meal is coming from.

No. Entry-level airline pilots make so little because:

1) Supply - lots of people want to be an airline pilot, even at those wages.

2) Demand - most airlines are now switching to larger jets, after trying regional jets in the 90s and 00s. Less jets for roughly the same amount of passengers means less need for pilots.

3) The actual job - your pilots are only in direct control of the aircraft for the first few minutes of take-off and landing - the most crucial parts. In between then, a computer basically flies the aircraft.

4) Union leadership biasing pay to itself - since union leadership consists of senior pilots, is it really a surprise when they demand that senior pilots be paid six figures, while junior pilots starve?

Of course, if you want to fly an airline where entry-level pilots are paid more, feel free to start one of your own. Good luck getting anyone else to pay for that though.

1. True and this is changing. A pilot shortage is driving up wages at some airlines.

2. True

3. Horseshit. Taxi, takeoff, climb, descent, landing and taxi in are extremely labor intensive. Pilots are responsible for knowing thousands of pages of information on aircraft systems and regulations. Roughly 10-20% of flights involve a mechanical problem or weather situation requiring decision making skills that affect the lives of hundreds of people. Sure, cruise may be 75% of the flight but a lot can go wrong during that time too. The computer is sophisticated and while it keeps the wings level and flies A to B, the pilot is still controlling the computer.

Consider a situation where excessive engine vibrations require an in-flight shut down. However, the destination airport has gone below the minimum weather requirement for landing and the nearest suitable airport is 90 minutes away. Do you risk landing below weather, where you may not have visual contact during landing, or do you trust the remaining engine for 90 minutes and go to the alternate airport? Now include a first officer who makes 18k and slept 3 hours in a noisy dormitory with 12 other pilots the night before. The captain depends on him to make suggestions and back up his decision making. Your computer doesn't do shit other than function as a calculator.

4. Very true.

Reference: check out my Airline Pilot Datasheet off my profile.

Post: #25

(03-22-2016 12:29 PM)Captainstabbin Wrote:  That's the starting salary for first officer, not the captain - and generally it's the short range props.

Pilots are more than willing to accept the low entry-level salary because they know that, with a few years of experience, the salary goes up quickly. And, while most airlines don't pay for flight school anymore, they do pay for a lot of other training.

If airline pilots had the same attitude as most other workers, they would demand higher starting salaries, full flight school training and no night flights - then get outraged and demand government action when they get replaced by Mexicans, Indians or trained monkeys.

Regional jets with up to 76 passengers pay the same rates as props for first officers.

With a few years experience your pay MAY go up. Most first officers I know made below 35k for five years. The airlines don't pay for shit other than specialized training on their aircraft. Most require training bonds.

Pilots cannot demand higher salaries because of the Railway Labor Act. This eliminates their leverage by prohibiting collective work actions.

LOL at monkeys flying sophisticated turbine aircraft. Maybe in 2100.