Post: #1

I'm weary of vomiting all of this unflattering personal shit onto the forum but there is no shortage of wisdom around here and I could really use an outside perspective right now. Long story short, I'm deeply entrenched in a 6 year depression and the fucked up part is that I'm beginning to realize that I've been this way for so long that I'm actually addicted to it.

At around 19 years old I experienced a life implosion that frankly I simply wasn't mentally equipped to deal with. I fell apart. Addiction and self-destructive behaviors soon became a normal part of life for me but through a combination of recklessness, a sharp mind, and good luck, I started making serious bank before I ever hit the true rock bottom that I was blasting full speed towards. Even with taking into account all the money I was hemorrhaging through my destructive choices and habits I was making more money than I knew what to do with for a good two and a half years. In the end however reality caught up to me and I blew through enough money that had I managed rationally, could have set me up for life. Not all is lost though as I locked a decent chunk of it away in a piece of profitable commercial real estate which is providing some modest mostly passive income.

What it all boils down to though is that despite DRASTICALLY changing my life circumstances, at no point did my inner experience ever really change. I know that right now as an intelligent, in shape, socially skilled mid 20's dude with a US passport, some resources, and gobs of free time that I'm in an objectively privileged position. I feel like a spoiled little faggot for even having these issues while I'm surrounded by people that have it infinitely worse than I do but at the same time to say I'm completely dead inside wouldn't at all be an overstatement. I try, I really do but I just can't find a way to take pleasure in anything. I force myself to do certain things like staying informed, maintaining a sensible gym/nutrition regimen, and learning game because being an outwardly objectively solid dude keeps me sane but there is no happiness. I have Jeb! tier levels of low energy. I also have the sex drive of an 106 year old chemo patient. I had a 19 year old rich spoiled tinder hoe with an insane body over last night naked and begging for the dick and it was like I was looking at art. I was extremely attracted to the sight of her but it didn't inspire any kind of primal urge to send blood down to my penis and fuck. I have low but not clinically low T levels.

As of right now the best course of action I can think of would be to:
a. adopt TLOZ's full mormon program
b. enroll in and fully immerse myself in an extremely physically and mentally demanding training of some sort where my time will be structured hopefully leaving me with some rewarding skills and a sense of accomplishment that I can then build on

As far as the location of my "rehabilitation camp", I'm willing to go anywhere as long as it's affordable. The only things I'll need outside of the actual program are access to cheap, quality food and a gym. Any ideas or insight is much appreciated.

Post: #2

You are being so vague that its difficult to really get a sense on what the issue(s) could be.

You had bad shit happen at 19? Were you happy before that? What were the things that made you happy?

If you are addicted to being depress and being a bitch about it, accept that and tell yourself to stop being a bitch. Seriously. When you feel depress or down on yourself, verbally yell out "Fuck this, I'm not getting depressed over XYZ; I've got more important shit to do." I've been there; you need to make a conscious effort to fight depressive thoughts and stop indulging yourself in self-pity victim bullshit. It won't happen overnight but if you stick to it, it will get easier with time. Most important thing is to gain perspective whenever you feeling down. Knowing that other people are suffering is not enough; go out and actually see people suffering. Go to a homeless shelter, a hospital, or the ghetto and get that perspective in your face. I doubt you will be really depress after that. If you are, you might have legit chemical imbalance issues that require some sort of medication or need professional therapy. Both are perfectly fine if you truly need it.

Furthermore, making a ton of money isn't going to make you happy by itself. It needs to lead to something that you value: freedom, building a family, creating something, accomplishing something of value, etc. You also won't appreciate it as much unless you really suffered and struggled without it for long periods of time as well.

A hot bitch doesn't mean much once you seen and bang enough of them. A lot of guys start valuing personality and pleasantness over pure physical hotness as they get older. You could be just watching too much porn and fuckin up your libido. Pretty difficult to get excited to fuck a slut when you're feeling down for whatever reason too. Hard to say the cause at this point.

You seem to be judging your self-worth on the perception of what you think people value instead of what YOU value. However only you, through trial and error, can truly figure out what you value.

Post: #3

Exercising and avoidance of stimulants aren't band-aids. Definitely do those things. On the other hand, they won't ultimately fix or address or lessen whatever it is that happened to you at age 19. Certainly not long term or in any sustainable way.

I'm a great believer in self improvement and especially the idea and practice of long term, sustainable habits. But I sense that a lot of guys want to use the various self improvement avenues as a substitute for the hard and long work of getting their mind right. The gym, Full Mormon, etc...can supplement but not replace that hard work. They may even be necessary, but not sufficient.

While I do not know what happened to you, I would guess that you need a change in perspective. Like a basic change in how you view events and their impact on you.

Post: #4

I'm not indulging in any self-pity victim bullshit. I made it a point to say that I know that I'm objectively in a very privileged situation at the moment and don't have any thoughts of feeling sorry for myself whatsoever. I promise I wouldn't post something like this if it was just a surface level issue that I haven't even tried solving. I've been abroad over a year now; spent time in slums, hell, I even spent two months in a jungle training Muay Thai full time. I grew up with two great parents in a very red pill family and was lucky enough to be able to finance a business that will take care of them and my younger siblings.

My issue is that nothing that I've been able to do so far has had any positive impact on my inner state. Nothing I do contributes to an overall sense of well-being, it's just me forcing myself to go through the motions of what I think would be an acceptable lifestyle. I feel like my brain's "reward system" is completely dysfunctional. The only time I ever even really experience real sadness is during alcoholic binges, in a sober state all I really ever feel is nothing.

I mentioned the girl last night just as an example, the libido thing has been an ongoing problem. I've seen a few of your posts around the forum and believe me our views on women and relationships are very similar. I haven't watched any porn in over a year and I almost never masturbate.

I don't think self-worth is the right word because I accomplished what I think other people value and it didn't change anything for me but you're no doubt right about the fact that I am for some reason always keeping what other people value in mind.

Post: #5

(03-24-2016 04:56 AM)Mr. Pink Wrote:  I'm weary of vomiting all of this unflattering personal shit onto the forum but there is no shortage of wisdom around here and I could really use an outside perspective right now. Long story short, I'm deeply entrenched in a 6 year depression and the fucked up part is that I'm beginning to realize that I've been this way for so long that I'm actually addicted to it.

At around 19 years old I experienced a life implosion that frankly I simply wasn't mentally equipped to deal with. I fell apart. Addiction and self-destructive behaviors soon became a normal part of life for me but through a combination of recklessness, a sharp mind, and good luck, I started making serious bank before I ever hit the true rock bottom that I was blasting full speed towards. Even with taking into account all the money I was hemorrhaging through my destructive choices and habits I was making more money than I knew what to do with for a good two and a half years. In the end however reality caught up to me and I blew through enough money that had I managed rationally, could have set me up for life. Not all is lost though as I locked a decent chunk of it away in a piece of profitable commercial real estate which is providing some modest mostly passive income.

What it all boils down to though is that despite DRASTICALLY changing my life circumstances, at no point did my inner experience ever really change. I know that right now as an intelligent, in shape, socially skilled mid 20's dude with a US passport, some resources, and gobs of free time that I'm in an objectively privileged position. I feel like a spoiled little faggot for even having these issues while I'm surrounded by people that have it infinitely worse than I do but at the same time to say I'm completely dead inside wouldn't at all be an overstatement. I try, I really do but I just can't find a way to take pleasure in anything. I force myself to do certain things like staying informed, maintaining a sensible gym/nutrition regimen, and learning game because being an outwardly objectively solid dude keeps me sane but there is no happiness. I have Jeb! tier levels of low energy. I also have the sex drive of an 106 year old chemo patient. I had a 19 year old rich spoiled tinder hoe with an insane body over last night naked and begging for the dick and it was like I was looking at art. I was extremely attracted to the sight of her but it didn't inspire any kind of primal urge to send blood down to my penis and fuck. I have low but not clinically low T levels.

As of right now the best course of action I can think of would be to:
a. adopt TLOZ's full mormon program
b. enroll in and fully immerse myself in an extremely physically and mentally demanding training of some sort where my time will be structured hopefully leaving me with some rewarding skills and a sense of accomplishment that I can then build on

As far as the location of my "rehabilitation camp", I'm willing to go anywhere as long as it's affordable. The only things I'll need outside of the actual program are access to cheap, quality food and a gym. Any ideas or insight is much appreciated.

It took me a long to understand this, but the relationships you have with people you care about are extremely important. Help and value the people you care about. Don't be afraid to help others you don't care about either - if you make a difference you WILL feel good.

I called a close friend's mom the other day just to see how she was doing for five minutes. She was incredibly happy just to hear from me and know that I was thinking of her - it made feel great the rest of the day. Maybe start small and find a way to help that is truly meaningful to you.

If you are looking for a place to start, you can give the friendly RVF forum some info about how you became filthy rich by your early 20s..

Post: #6

(03-24-2016 08:39 AM)Eddie Winslow Wrote:  It took me a long to understand this, but the relationships you have with people you care about are extremely important. Help and value the people you care about. Don't be afraid to help others you don't care about either - if you make a difference you WILL feel good.

I called a close friend's mom the other day just to see how she was doing for five minutes. She was incredibly happy just to hear from me and know that I was thinking of her - it made feel great the rest of the day. Maybe start small and find a way to help that is truly meaningful to you.

If you are looking for a place to start, you can give the friendly RVF forum some info about how you became filthy rich by your early 20s..

Could not agree more with you my man. I know my post comes off that way but I promise I'm no Scrooge, I do genuinely try giving value when I can. I'll try making it more of a priority.

That's not something I want to do in a thread that can't ever be deleted but you're welcome to PM me if you're interested. Unfortunately though while it's a neat little story it's not something that can be replicated so it won't be very useful to anyone.

Post: #7

Tell us your neat story. Leave out specifics but everybody on this forum loves reading interesting things, especially if is directly related to a member on here. Thats why we are all here checking out other dudes lives and seeing whats up. I know I enjoy telling stories I think are cool, especially when it is about me. Maybe share something here you have always been proud of. It might make you feel better. Members here love getting laid, and right after a new conquest they come here to share how awesome they were for a section of time and how they scored a 9. Well, it doesn't always have to be about chicks. Share a story either here or with a friend that makes you smile as your telling it. Everyone has a couple stories like that. Bragging about things I have done sometimes pulls me out of a funk. Also, I am sorry you are unable to recognize joy in your life right now. I know I have been there before.

Post: #8

Judging from the way he vaguely hints at the "luck" and how his financial status is "unique" and "can't be replicated" I'm willing to bet he fell into a chunk of money somehow, perhaps some sort of inheritance or maybe some kind of lucrative illegal dealings, and then maybe wisely invested it.

Either way, onto OP's issue with depression.

You need to find something that gives you pleasure and pursue it. No one here can tell you what that something is, but you need to find something that allows you to unlock that feeling of being trapped in yourself. Maybe you need to try writing, making music, painting, etc. The arts can often times be a good way to open yourself up. Another way would be thrill seeking, or being out in nature appreciating the beauty of the world.

Another big thing you didn't talk about was your social life. Do you have any friends? Bonding with other people is extremely important to your well-being. Humans are social creatures and are not meant to be completely reclusive. Surface level interaction with other people is not enough, you need to bond with other people on a deep level. Be it family, friends, a woman, whatever. You need that bond.

You could also try getting a dog. The bonding and loyalty of man's best friend can often help open you up.

Try being more serious about fitness. Working out with more intensity and building more muscle will help to naturally up your T levels.

Post: #9

Yes, share your story. It will be giving value and make you feel better.

Post: #10

Lets get something out of the way, if your depression is at the level you claim it to be, no amount of nubile, tight virgin tinder chicks will snap you out of it. They're low quality. Nothing but a warm hole and unlikely to get you excited.

Onto solutions; a few questions come to mind:

When was the last time you volunteered?

When was the last time you physically exerted yourself with others?

How much do you squat? No seriously. How much do you deadlift?

When was the last time you played a sport?

When was the last time you felt uncomfortable?

When was the last time you felt challenged?

What do you care about?

Post: #11

(03-24-2016 04:56 AM)Mr. Pink Wrote:  At around 19 years old I experienced a life implosion that frankly I simply wasn't mentally equipped to deal with. I fell apart. Addiction and self-destructive behaviors soon became a normal part of life for me[...]

This is more than enough info to see where the problem is. You have already identified it and accepted it as reality. This is a good thing. My advice to you will not make you feel better, but if you follow the advice, you have a chance to feel better at some point in your future.
Whatever happened had an impact on you that you couldn't handle yourself. The only way for you to somewhat deal with the situation was to drown it with drugs. Your psyche never processed and overcame what happened. You're still "under the spell" of what happened when you were 19. If it's been this long, you probably won't be able to come out of this yourself. And the longer you're depressed, the harder it will be for you to heal again (Quote: "I'm beginning to realize that I've been this way for so long that I'm actually addicted to it.") . Because of this, I would advise you to go to a psychologist (not a psychiatrist! You might not need any medication and I'd be reluctant with that.) and look at what happened in your past under professional guidance. (If he's good) He will be able to explain a lot of questions, maybe even those you never thought you had. Your brain needs to understand the situation and your reaction to it completely in order for you to be able to overcome it. The drugs just pushed it out of your conscience for the moments when you were under the influence.

One important thought you have to come to terms with, better sooner than later, is this: your situation isn't hopeless, you have a chance at remission, but you might never fully recover. You can, but it's not certain. So do what you can and try your best, but simultaneously don't try to force it (won't work, might hinder the progress) and learn to somewhat live with it.

What you're doing thus far is very good (except the drugs, which you stopped if I understand correctly). Keeping an orderly schedule and being physically active are very important and effective measures to deal with depression. Those bootcamps you went to help keep your mind off too much negativity, which can temporarily help also. However, as you have experienced for yourself, this isn't enough and you can't expect to distract yourself forever. No matter which camp you visit or for how long you do it - once you come back to your normal life, you will find your issues to still be there. Members telling you to "find something you're passionate about" and all that mean well and they're not wrong, but everything that's been named thus far will not actually treat the root cause. If you really suffer from depression, which you likely do based on the symptoms you describe, then you won't find anything you're passionate about. There will be few to no activities that you can enjoy. You cannot force this. Joy can only come on it's own and it will do so once you've dealt with your life-changing experience. Going to a shrink and admitting you have a problem that you can't deal with yourself is not the manliest thing to do (or so it's perceived). However, living a miserable existence for the next 60 years won't be very honorable either. And that's what you're headed for if you continue to look for remedies outside of yourself. So better jump over your ego now and get it over with rather than suffer through life until it's over.

While the function of psychology is widely acknowledged by the RVF community and readily used for game, I'm not sure about the acceptance and approval of psychotherapy. If I remember correctly, Mike CF isn't a big fan, for example. Nonetheless there are by now numerous studies on a variety of methods that prove the effectiveness if the therapist is a good one (which isn't always easy to find). The two major established and researched methods right now are behavior therapy and depth psychology. They used to be strictly separated but lately the trend is going for a combination of the two methods. In your case, a depth psychologist is the better option, ideally with additional knowledge and application of elements of behavior therapy. If possible, try several therapists before deciding which one to go to as the success of the treatment is strongly influenced by how much you get along with and trust your therapist.
Considering the insight you shared about yourself, you will be a patient that's easier to treat than others. You have already observed yourself and drawn the right conclusions as far as you could based on your current level of knowledge.

Concerning your low libido: how long has it been this way and is it correlated to the drug usage or to when the depressive symptoms got stronger? You are right in assuming that your depression could be the cause of it. However, there can be another factor playing a role here: I would at least consider the possibility of porn having an influence. I really can't stress enough how much of a negative impact regular porn-consumption can have on the psyche and libido. Since you suffer from depression, your brain is above-average fragile to being negatively influenced by porn. If you're watching porn, try to stop doing that. Whether it is the root-cause or the only cause for your low libido, giving up on porn completely has the potential to positively influence both your depressive symptoms as well as your libido. The most effective results are achieved when also stopping masturbation for a few months until your brain has rebalanced itself. In your situation however, where motivation and discipline are infinitely harder to maintain than in a healthy person, I would suggest to only focus on quitting porn for the moment and just fapping without it whenever you get the urge. If urges occur again, that is a good sign that your depression has gotten better. Be careful though - quitting one addiction can trigger the recurrence of urges for past addictions. So before going back to using drugs, rather give in to your porn addiction.

Another advice is to start meditation. It is really the best method you can do on your own that helps you deal with life better. Different meditations are good for different people. I would suggest you read up on Zazen and Vipassana meditation. Then decide which is best suited for you. Vipassana is quite difficult if done correctly so I would go with Zazen. In my experience, many westerners don't like meditation because of the uncomfortable way of sitting. It is important not to lie down and also to sit straight without a chair-back. So if you can't adapt the Sukhasana-pose without having to concentrate on it, then try one of those:


If you have any questions regarding psychotherapy, porn or meditation, feel free to ask here or message me via PM.

EDIT: Since several members have encouraged you to share your story: only do so if you really think doing that in and of itself will help you. It can be of help to talk about it, but this is not always the case and it also sometimes depends on who you tell it to. This community is great, but it's also a public forum and you don't actually have any deeper connection with us. There are two things you need to consider about yourself before doing so: 1) If going back mentally to what happened makes you feel worse, then it is best to save doing it for people who can actually help you based on what you tell (meaning: a therapist). 2) If telling this story only makes you feel better because you get attention and care, then it could lead to you getting attached to the disease because it brings this kind of benefit. It could lead to you making this part of your identity because people treat you better for having it. This will make it more difficult to get rid of it.

Post: #12

Not sure if you meant addiction in the drug sense from your OP, but if that's the case, PM me and I'd like to discuss this further with you. We may have some common history.

Post: #13

Be more aggressive about fixing this issue! Be more fundamental about how you will fix this issue! Be more focused on the specific problem areas and less focused on things that don't help you!

How to be more aggressive about fixing the problem? -- share your story, talk to your friends and family, ask for help, get professional help, post ?s on this forum, talk to strangers about it, express yourself, communicate honestly, help others in a similar situation, find a support group, cry about it, write about it, talk about it, read books about it, listen to podcasts about it, be willing to do whatever it takes to find happiness, own it, embrace it. Just keep digging!

How to be more fundamental about fixing the problem? -- think less, do more positive action, positive self talk, communicate and express yourself with trusted friends and family, avoid too much drugs and alcohol, get good sleep, seek answers to the spiritual type questions in your mind, don't use sex/drugs/alcohol to numb yourself, don't try to distract yourself from the problem, face the problem today!

How to be more focused on fixing the issue? -- Forget about pussy and partying for a little while, those things don't excite you anyways, make this problem the #1 priority in your life, stop avoiding the pain and trying to hide from it, go towards the pain with courage and fight the demons in your mind, start today! Be brave, don't let fear paralyze you.

The more you express yourself, the better you will feel.

The more aggressively you seek out help, the faster you will heal.

Talk about it, share your story, holding it in does not help you!

Just keep digging! Dig more efficiently. Dig with improved focus!

You'll be okay, we will help you.

Post: #14

(03-24-2016 07:27 AM)Mr. Pink Wrote:  I'm not indulging in any self-pity victim bullshit

You: "Long story short, I'm deeply entrenched in a 6 year depression and the fucked up part is that I'm beginning to realize that I've been this way for so long that I'm actually addicted to it.

So..... the way I read that is: I'm addicted to being depressed and indulge negative thoughts that starts up a depressive episode. Maybe that's wrong but it sure came off that way.

Quote: I've been abroad over a year now; spent time in slums, hell, I even spent two months in a jungle training Muay Thai full time. I grew up with two great parents in a very red pill family and was lucky enough to be able to finance a business that will take care of them and my younger siblings.

Ok, so you have perspective (spent time in slums) and it didn't work. That at least largely eliminates certain issues (i.e. a lack of perspective).

Quote:My issue is that nothing that I've been able to do so far has had any positive impact on my inner state. Nothing I do contributes to an overall sense of well-being, it's just me forcing myself to go through the motions of what I think would be an acceptable lifestyle. I feel like my brain's "reward system" is completely dysfunctional. The only time I ever even really experience real sadness is during alcoholic binges, in a sober state all I really ever feel is nothing.

[...]

I don't think self-worth is the right word because I accomplished what I think other people value and it didn't change anything for me but you're no doubt right about the fact that I am for some reason always keeping what other people value in mind.

As I said, you are living a life based on the perception of what other people value and not on what you value. It's pretty hard to get excited about that. You are trying to figure it out but it sounds like the issue goes a bit deeper than just figuring what's out important.

Quote:I mentioned the girl last night just as an example, the libido thing has been an ongoing problem. I've seen a few of your posts around the forum and believe me our views on women and relationships are very similar. I haven't watched any porn in over a year and I almost never masturbate.

If you share similar views as me, then it's actually normal to NOT get excited about some basic American slut even if she's hot. I like a hot looking chick like any guy but I don't really get excited until I find out or discover she is pleasant, feminine, and fun to be around. A hot looking chick with a bad personality is repulsive to me.

Can't say I have too much more to add. I've been in slumps and have had a very hard life at times so I know certain ways for digging yourself out of the hole that effective. But your issues probably require talking to a professional and really doing a in-depth analysis and/or seeing if certain medications might help your mental state. I know a few dudes who are kind of like yourself who need their medication to feel normal for whatever reason. I have never needed that stuff but there are definitely folks who no matter what they do (talking to people, gaining perspective, etc) that need medication to get their head in the right place for whatever reason. Something to consider.

Post: #15

A few questions:

-- Are you taking any prescription drugs? If so, which ones?
-- Alcohol/caffeine/other drugs: which ones do you use and how often
-- What are your sleeping/waking habits like, when do you get up and go to sleep. How would you describe the quality of your sleep. How would you describe your state when you wake up.
-- What is your diet like
-- What kind of exercise do you do, if any, and how often.

Let's start with these.

Post: #16

Thanks for the responses guys, this place has been a godsend for me since finding it around 18 months ago.

Quote:A few questions:

-- Are you taking any prescription drugs? If so, which ones?
-- Alcohol/caffeine/other drugs: which ones do you use and how often
-- What are your sleeping/waking habits like, when do you get up and go to sleep. How would you describe the quality of your sleep. How would you describe your state when you wake up.
-- What is your diet like
-- What kind of exercise do you do, if any, and how often.

Let's start with these.

-I haven't taken any prescription drugs, ever.

-Two years of every day marijuana use, though mostly only at night to facilitate sleep. Quit cold turkey. Few months of opiate use, spacing out sessions by at least three days. During a moment of profound weakness I tried buying about $3,000 worth of pills and was robbed which I interpreted as a fortunate second chance. Quit cold turkey after that. Alcohol is a different story. My alcohol use started as typical high school binge drinking, once maybe twice a week. I always had rules in place to never drink two days in a row, out of necessity really because I physically can't sleep for more than a couple of hours with alcohol in my system. As I started making money however my alcohol use steadily increased and it almost always was the driving force behind other much more destructive, impulsive behaviors. I'm now at a point where I can down a liter of vodka with no observable difference in my behavior except for the depressive crash the next day which I welcome with open arms because to me emotional pain is far better than feeling nothing. I've tried many other drugs but I respond very poorly to all stimulants so recurring use hasn't been a problem.

-My sleep and sleep hygiene has historically been terrible because my work hours varied wildly week to week. Sleep onset takes 1-2 hours minimum. Hard time falling back asleep after waking. Weed did help quite a bit. I finally received my bright light about three weeks ago which I've been using as you suggest but I did slip up on two nights alcohol wise which I'm assuming threw a wrench in the recovery process. Will get it cleaned up.

-My diet is great. Meat, fish, fruit, vegetables, potatoes. No sugar, no shitty cooking oils.

-I'm in the gym 3-5 times a week and have a pretty solid routine using good form and effective exercises. Workout A) Chest/Tris/Front Delts Workout B) Back/Bis/Rear Delts Workout C) Legs/Side Delts. I weigh 173-175 lbs at 13-15% BF. I DB press 90's for five sets of 8-10 reps and squat below parallel 185 for five sets of 8-10 reps. My cardio is actually quite bad and I just started some light HIIT to get that taken care of.

Post: #17

Quote:Judging from the way he vaguely hints at the "luck" and how his financial status is "unique" and "can't be replicated" I'm willing to bet he fell into a chunk of money somehow, perhaps some sort of inheritance or maybe some kind of lucrative illegal dealings, and then maybe wisely invested it.

Either way, onto OP's issue with depression.

You need to find something that gives you pleasure and pursue it. No one here can tell you what that something is, but you need to find something that allows you to unlock that feeling of being trapped in yourself. Maybe you need to try writing, making music, painting, etc. The arts can often times be a good way to open yourself up. Another way would be thrill seeking, or being out in nature appreciating the beauty of the world.

Another big thing you didn't talk about was your social life. Do you have any friends? Bonding with other people is extremely important to your well-being. Humans are social creatures and are not meant to be completely reclusive. Surface level interaction with other people is not enough, you need to bond with other people on a deep level. Be it family, friends, a woman, whatever. You need that bond.

You could also try getting a dog. The bonding and loyalty of man's best friend can often help open you up.

Try being more serious about fitness. Working out with more intensity and building more muscle will help to naturally up your T levels.

Definitely a sound conclusion but there was no inheritance. I've always been a pretty impulsive thrill seeker and have spent a lot of time in nature but both good suggestions.

Socially you bring up some good points. I have plenty of typical surface level friends and I also have a finely tuned sense of empathy + am very open in personal conversations so friends naturally feel at ease with me and feel like I "get" them. At the risk of sounding deranged though I will say that without ever showing it, I don't truly bond with anyone. I'm not some sociopath, I can have very intimate relationships and I try to be a good person and give value but I don't get attached to anyone or anything. Not sure how to feel about that to be honest. Getting a dog is actually an idea I've toyed around with and I probably will be getting myself a Doberman pup when I have the right logistics.

I'm actually already pretty serious about working out, I gave a little more info in my above post.

Thanks again for the replies and reaching out guys I'm headed out right now but will respond to more when I'm back.

Post: #18

(03-24-2016 08:48 PM)Mr. Pink Wrote:  Thanks for the responses guys, this place has been a godsend for me since finding it around 18 months ago.

Quote:A few questions:

-- Are you taking any prescription drugs? If so, which ones?
-- Alcohol/caffeine/other drugs: which ones do you use and how often
-- What are your sleeping/waking habits like, when do you get up and go to sleep. How would you describe the quality of your sleep. How would you describe your state when you wake up.
-- What is your diet like
-- What kind of exercise do you do, if any, and how often.

Let's start with these.

-I haven't taken any prescription drugs, ever.

-Two years of every day marijuana use, though mostly only at night to facilitate sleep. Quit cold turkey. Few months of opiate use, spacing out sessions by at least three days. During a moment of profound weakness I tried buying about $3,000 worth of pills and was robbed which I interpreted as a fortunate second chance. Quit cold turkey after that. Alcohol is a different story. My alcohol use started as typical high school binge drinking, once maybe twice a week. I always had rules in place to never drink two days in a row, out of necessity really because I physically can't sleep for more than a couple of hours with alcohol in my system. As I started making money however my alcohol use steadily increased and it almost always was the driving force behind other much more destructive, impulsive behaviors. I'm now at a point where I can down a liter of vodka with no observable difference in my behavior except for the depressive crash the next day which I welcome with open arms because to me emotional pain is far better than feeling nothing. I've tried many other drugs but I respond very poorly to all stimulants so recurring use hasn't been a problem.

-My sleep and sleep hygiene has historically been terrible because my work hours varied wildly week to week. Sleep onset takes 1-2 hours minimum. Hard time falling back asleep after waking. Weed did help quite a bit. I finally received my bright light about three weeks ago which I've been using as you suggest but I did slip up on two nights alcohol wise which I'm assuming threw a wrench in the recovery process. Will get it cleaned up.

-My diet is great. Meat, fish, fruit, vegetables, potatoes. No sugar, no shitty cooking oils.

-I'm in the gym 3-5 times a week and have a pretty solid routine using good form and effective exercises. Workout A) Chest/Tris/Front Delts Workout B) Back/Bis/Rear Delts Workout C) Legs/Side Delts. I weigh 173-175 lbs at 13-15% BF. I DB press 90's for five sets of 8-10 reps and squat below parallel 185 for five sets of 8-10 reps. My cardio is actually quite bad and I just started some light HIIT to get that taken care of.

Look at the bolded above. The rest of your post means jack shit in regards to that statement. Are you fucking kidding me? What the fuck are you even living for?

As someone who has struggled with alcohol, your mindset and priorities are severely fucked up. It doesn't fucking matter what you eat or lift if you're drowning yourself with a liter of vodka everyday. Knock that shit off. Read every post in the drinking wagon thread to change your perspective. It has changed my life. LOZ knows what he is talking about.

Second, what do you do? Not as a job, not for money, but what do you actually want to do with your life? You sound like you fell into some money and have been drifting mindlessly.

Figure out what you want out of life and map out a way to get there. You need a god damn purpose.

I'll oblige and give you insight into my worldview. I graduated with a state school marketing degree at the end of 2014. The bill is 80K. I took two jobs throughout 2015 making shit pay. I ended up going back to my tip-based college job after both attempts. I drank heavily through all endeavors. I lost the meaning in my life and felt my long term goals were unattainable. I more or less made the succession from the self-improvement life and joined the self-pity party. I hampstered out of rational arguments with job market bullshit, etc. It all came down to the level of butthurt I faced by pausing my life four years in search of a false god.

The only difference now is that I'm regularly meeting with lenders, I'm regularly having interviews, I'm regularly making active changes in my status.

Post: #19

If a litre of vodka is at all typical, it's most likely what is suppressing your sex drive.

I have no experience with alcoholism, but the way that you drink makes drunkenness the goal.
Vodka has no purpose but getting people drunk. Beer and wine, though, are more like foodstuffs. You can enjoy the taste.
It might be worth your while to try for a European approach to alcohol instead of going cold turkey.
A little wine with dinner, practically as a portion of the dinner, not as a tool of escape.

You say you are escaping from numbness by drinking, and also that you are a thrill seeker.
It seems to me that you see your ordinary life as unstimulating, something to be escaped from.
Alcohol is an artificial escape. The beast is let out on a leash while sedated, and dragged back in by the morning after.
Ask yourself: what can't you let yourself do while sober? Which is the prison, sharp sobriety or dull drunkenness? What if both are?
Sobriety is a synonym for self-restraint. Should it be?

There's no clean, self-help way to put this: I recommend enjoying cruelty. It's the very first thing that came to mind.
Teasing and artificial drama are low-level forms of cruelty. Pretend to be angry and extract tearful apologies. Play games. Yank the chain.
It's the most stimulating thing I can think of. Complete self-awareness and control with no inhibitions.

Post: #20

(03-24-2016 08:48 PM)Mr. Pink Wrote:  -I haven't taken any prescription drugs, ever.

-Two years of every day marijuana use, though mostly only at night to facilitate sleep. Quit cold turkey. Few months of opiate use, spacing out sessions by at least three days. During a moment of profound weakness I tried buying about $3,000 worth of pills and was robbed which I interpreted as a fortunate second chance. Quit cold turkey after that. Alcohol is a different story. My alcohol use started as typical high school binge drinking, once maybe twice a week. I always had rules in place to never drink two days in a row, out of necessity really because I physically can't sleep for more than a couple of hours with alcohol in my system. As I started making money however my alcohol use steadily increased and it almost always was the driving force behind other much more destructive, impulsive behaviors. I'm now at a point where I can down a liter of vodka with no observable difference in my behavior except for the depressive crash the next day which I welcome with open arms because to me emotional pain is far better than feeling nothing. I've tried many other drugs but I respond very poorly to all stimulants so recurring use hasn't been a problem.

-My sleep and sleep hygiene has historically been terrible because my work hours varied wildly week to week. Sleep onset takes 1-2 hours minimum. Hard time falling back asleep after waking. Weed did help quite a bit. I finally received my bright light about three weeks ago which I've been using as you suggest but I did slip up on two nights alcohol wise which I'm assuming threw a wrench in the recovery process. Will get it cleaned up.

-My diet is great. Meat, fish, fruit, vegetables, potatoes. No sugar, no shitty cooking oils.

-I'm in the gym 3-5 times a week and have a pretty solid routine using good form and effective exercises. Workout A) Chest/Tris/Front Delts Workout B) Back/Bis/Rear Delts Workout C) Legs/Side Delts. I weigh 173-175 lbs at 13-15% BF. I DB press 90's for five sets of 8-10 reps and squat below parallel 185 for five sets of 8-10 reps. My cardio is actually quite bad and I just started some light HIIT to get that taken care of.

Thank you for the detailed and honest answers.

Here is what I would suggest:

-- Get rid of alcohol completely. You've been drinking very hard for years, and that can have strong depressive effects in some men; you may well be one of them. You should really adopt the Full Mormon program, as you yourself suggested in the OP to this thread, but for you this really means alcohol at this point. Take a complete break and reevaluate in a year.

-- You need to get your sleeping/waking schedule under control and start getting consistently good and restorative sleep every night. This is key.

Looking back at your posts in the bright light therapy thread, I think the device you bought is the Sphere Gadget. I don't think it's a very good light box, to be honest. It's very small, and you need to sit quite close to it (like 6'' I believe) to get 10,000 Lux. People tend not to want to get that close (and it can be straining on the eyes) and as a result, don't really get the full benefits.

Especially since you have a little money, there is no excuse for not getting a great light box. They last for years, and it's the best investment in your health and well-being you could ever make. Get something like the Sunlight Jr. (from the US) or the Lumie Brazil (from Europe), whichever is easier for you, and use it correctly and consistently, same time every morning at the correct distance to get 10,000 Lux.

-- Staying on the same subject, you should adopt other habits (beyond bright light therapy which will establish a base) that will aid in good sleep hygiene. Some of these are:

- Don't eat too much too late; ideally, nothing at all for 4-6 hours prior to your intended bedtime, and only a light meal before that. Eat your main meals earlier in the day.

- Same goes for exercise. Do your weight training earlier rather than later in the day.

- Make sure the room where you sleep is cool and dark.

Physiologically, the point of all these habits is to assist in lowering your body temperature at the right time for sleep initiation. Your body temperature needs to drop slightly for good proper sleep to start; eating late, exercising late, or being in a hot room can keep your body temperature too high.

- Make sure you install f.lux on all your devices. If you are using an iPhone, get the latest iOS update (9.3) and activate the NightShift feature. You don't want to be absorbing blue light wavelengths late in the day.

-- As far as your psychological state goes: as much as possible, try to relax about it. Don't expect to feel anything in particular; don't worry too much if you seem to "feel nothing" or feel "empty" or "directionless" and so on. Don't worry about not being deeply attached to other people. Just relax about the whole thing.

Intelligent and sensitive men approach life with an expectation of spiritual and emotional intensity that does no real justice to life's true rhythms; they challenge it to be full of "meaning" and energy at all times. That is not how life really is; it is filled with long stretches of seeming emptiness and desultoriness and dryness, and yet when we look back on these periods we see that they have amounted to more than we have suspected.

Just relax and let life come to you, and focus on what you can control which is developing the structure of physical habits that puts you in the best possible position to lead a healthy and enjoyable life. If you do that -- and if, in addition, if you become patient and do not expect things to change overnight but allow changes to develop little by little as all your good habits take hold -- I'm confident that after a sufficiently long period of time you will be able to look back, and look around you, and recognize that your life has, almost without your knowing it, taken on a new color and a new aspect, and that the difficulties of the earlier years no longer really come to mind; and that instead, the present and the future and their possibilities naturally suggest themselves to your attention. Just do what you need to do day in day out, and you'll get there.

Post: #21

OP you need to look at just a couple things. For one what's really bothering you? What's eating you up everyday? A lack of zest for life could simply be emotional stuff that hasn't been dealt with from the past. Second, what questions are you asking yourself each day? Questions are powerful, if you have a habit of asking yourself questions that are negative that may be a BIG factor in why you are experiencing life as you are right now. You may want to structure the conscious questions you ask yourself in such a way that only a positive answer can eventuate, this is very powerful in getting your subconscious on your side. Third, you are in your mid/early 20's do you know truly know what you enjoy doing in life? Do you get to do what you enjoy doing in life assuming you know it? Most people simply don't know what makes them happy. When you spend your time doing the things YOU want to do and no one can keep that from you you'll naturally have much higher levels of happiness then people who can't and I can say that from experience. Things for example that I really enjoy don't even cost me much(most of them); Watching movies, alone time, dancing with women, cycling, singing, banging women, smoking a cigar, lots of travel, mma, hunting, spear fishing. When you know what to do to be happy and you can do it today, tomorrow and the day after you get to actually be happy, you have purpose, you have meaning in your life. Ultimately you are the architect of your life, there's no blueprints because you are the one who creates them, that's the most amazing fact of life. The most important thing you can do in life you will do yourself.

Post: #22

Mr. Pink, you simply have a combination of destructive physical and psychological habits. You need to address both. For the physical, do everything Lizard of Oz suggested. For the psychological, stop obsessing about yourself. Eddie Winslow's post highlighting all the times you used the words I and I'm is very revealing. You come across as a narcissist, endlessly fascinated with navel-gazing and analyzing the state of your life. Stop worrying about how you're doing, and start worrying about how others are doing. Help others and you will help yourself. Undertake a personal mission to improve the world in the unique way that only you can (we are all gifted in some such capacity, do not doubt it) and you will soon find you no longer have the inclination to wallow in self-pity and manufactured despair.

Post: #23

Another thing I want to add is that giving to others is a very powerful action that has lasting benefits. Now I'm not talking about feeding the homeless or becoming Mother Teresa. I'm talking about giving something to people in your life simply because they want it, you're doing it just for the sake of giving not from a personal desire you may have, you are just giving because the other person(s) want it and involves some sacrifice on your part. Remember you're not doing this to feel good about it or because you want to see a change in the world, or even because you want to, you're just doing it to give something that somebody else wants for their happiness. This probably deserves a thread of it's own to get a bit more in depth about it, it's very deep stuff.

Post: #24

(03-24-2016 04:56 AM)Mr. Pink Wrote:  Long story short, I'm deeply entrenched in a 6 year depression and the fucked up part is that I'm beginning to realize that I've been this way for so long that I'm actually addicted to it.

Depression can be addictive. Stephen Crane wrote a very insightful poem about it called "In the desert" (1895).

Quote:In the desert
I saw a creature, naked, bestial,
Who, squatting upon the ground,
Held his heart in his hands,
And ate of it.
I said, “Is it good, friend?”
“It is bitter—bitter,” he answered;

“But I like it
“Because it is bitter,
“And because it is my heart.”

So the question the poem begs is, "What is it about the bitter heart that tastes so sweet?"

I think an answer may be because we can control it. Anything we control is ours. For example, when you approach a girl you have no control of how she will react and where it will go. However if you never approach, then you are in complete control. You know exactly what will happen. In this case nothing, but the nothing is yours and your in control of it.

Depressive feelings are an indulgence. I have them too, and it's always a temptation, like booze and all the rest, to delve into those bitter-sweet emotions. They are yours and you can control and play around with them. Unlike happiness which often depends on the others and the outside world and even if you achieve it, is always a fleeting affair.

And stopping the booze and drugs as everyone has suggested will do you a world of good. You should start that today.

Post: #25

I have noticed two kinds of self pity, one is the more obvious I am a fat loser who is broke and my girlfriend left me and my mom pays my bills, I love cars and all my friends have cool cars but i work at autoparts store for 9 bucks an hour, my new girlfriend is 340 lbs and yells at me, etc.

The other type is I have my shit together, but i am frustrated, I am buff, but reached a workout plateau, hot girls come to me but i dont fuck, I have money but dont care if i spend it all, but dont spend it because i dont care either way, I look good and am a male 8, but I see the flaws, I have the passive income you all wish you had but I am heading toward rock bottom, I am a rabid drug user but quit suddenly and it had no effect, I drive a nice car but the only song playing is "Nothing Else Matters." And so on...

The first type is easier to advise. Come on man, get out of your moms house and go try some day game...

The second type always leaves us scratching out heads, why? That's part of the trap. On one hand I understand the not revealing specifics on a public bb, but the whole story has no detail. What do you do every day? What is your value system? Do you actually have disdain for the hot girl and the passive income you know we all want on this bb?

You said you feel like a spoiled brat but is that what you want or do you want to feel differently? Do you think you are "done" just because you saw a little money? Have you considered raising your self-concept of how much is a lot of money?

So I ask you what are your values? Discover the principles that you hold to be true and act on them.