Post: #1

I realize this is going to be a serious newbie question, but I've just never done coffee shop dates, or much day game, until I started to realize the possibilities thanks to this forum.

So in all seriousness, when you go on a coffee date, what's the best etiquette for things like:

• Do you wait until they arrive to get yourself a coffee?
• If you didn't wait for them, do you then offer to go get them a drink or let them get themselves something?
• If you wait until they arrive to get a drink, do you go to the counter together or do you ask what they want and tell them to wait?
• Do you usually order just drinks or should you also get food?
  

I feel like I screw up any of these, then the situation has instantly been made super awkward. So what is the ideal flow of things on a coffee date?

Post: #2

(04-12-2016 12:33 AM)natas305 Wrote:  I realize this is going to be a serious newbie question, but I've just never done coffee shop dates, or much day game, until I started to realize the possibilities thanks to this forum.

So in all seriousness, when you go on a coffee date, what's the best etiquette for things like:

• Do you wait until they arrive to get yourself a coffee?
• If you didn't wait for them, do you then offer to go get them a drink or let them get themselves something?
• If you wait until they arrive to get a drink, do you go to the counter together or do you ask what they want and tell them to wait?
• Do you usually order just drinks or should you also get food?
  

I feel like I screw up any of these, then the situation has instantly been made super awkward. So what is the ideal flow of things on a coffee date?

Dear natas305, there are no such thing as newbie questions! I'll be speaking from my experiences as an European.

[*]Do you wait until they arrive to get yourself a coffee?

If I am first then I do not wait.

[*]If you didn't wait for them, do you then offer to go get them a drink or let them get themselves something?

I offer to get them a drink.

[*]If you wait until they arrive to get a drink, do you go to the counter together or do you ask what they want and tell them to wait?

I ask them what they want and get something.

[*]Do you usually order just drinks or should you also get food?

Just drinks and then a venue change for food. Keeps things in motion.

[*]I feel like I screw up any of these, then the situation has instantly been made super awkward. So what is the ideal flow of things on a coffee date?

Curiously enough I believe this to be the most important part of your post. The situation will not be super awkward if you screw up on any of these if you do not allow it. Mindset, mindset, mindset! So what if you screw up? Jack shit. You are there to have fun and even if something goes wrong – smile! I’ve found women to love when a man takes pressure on like a champ.

When it comes to the ideal flow on a coffee date I believe Roosh’s work thoroughly discuss this subject so I’d advise you get his books and read them.

Another book I’d recommend is Gorilla Mindset by Mike Cernovich – it helps you get into the zone so you won’t fear things like getting into awkward situations. Helped me big time!

Good luck and Godspeed brother.

Post: #3

I'll bite although I'm sure some guys can break this down better than me.

Your coffee shop etiquette should be similar to your bar etiquette. Know the venue and scope out the best seating arrangement ahead of time to make sure you can sit next to each other (not across from each other) Seems a bit awkward to get yourself a coffee before she arrives, in fact, you shouldn't be lingering in the coffee shop before she arrives at all. I'd wait outside or linger next door until she shows up. The exception being if you're getting serious work done before she arrives, but even then once she arrives I'd go up with her to the counter and order something else as it's awkward when once person eats/drinks and the other doesn't. As for who pays, if I invite a girl on a date I'm always prepared to pay. It's not to win them over but just basic manners. Most girls will refuse and pay for themselves. This whole who order what and when honestly isn't that important.

When in doubt I'd avoid food, but this is similar to #teamappetizers and can go either way. Sometimes I get a pastry to share although not eating at the coffee shop gives you an excuse to grab a snack at your pad.

I've done coffee dates a few different ways. There's no golden recipe for who eats what and when. I think the awkwardness you're referring to springs from miscommunication and a lack of leadership on your part. Try being more decisive on your next coffee date. Right after you see her find a good table to sit at, tell her to put her stuff down, walk together to the counter, talk about xyz coffee/frappucino they have that she should order, get drinks, return to seat, escalate and bounce as usual.

Edit: ^Guriko beat me to it. Agree with what he says but if you get there first and she keeps you waiting 10+min, I wouldn't wait there like a chode. I'd bounce next door or start running errands locally until she texts you she's arrived.

Post: #4

(04-12-2016 12:57 AM)Balkan Wrote:  Edit: ^Guriko beat me to it. Agree with what he says but if you get there first and she keeps you waiting 10+min, I wouldn't wait there like a chode. I'd bounce next door or start running errands locally until she texts you she's arrived.

Definitely agree with this part. Though I really hate it when they do that because I view it as a sign of disrespect against the other person. My days are usually packed full and if I take the time to be on time, she can’t? But that’s the story for another day.

Post: #5

(04-12-2016 01:03 AM)Guriko Wrote:  

(04-12-2016 12:57 AM)Balkan Wrote:  Edit: ^Guriko beat me to it. Agree with what he says but if you get there first and she keeps you waiting 10+min, I wouldn't wait there like a chode. I'd bounce next door or start running errands locally until she texts you she's arrived.

Definitely agree with this part. Though I really hate it when they do that because I view it as a sign of disrespect against the other person. My days are usually packed full and if I take the time to be on time, she can’t? But that’s the story for another day.

Yeah same here. A lot of people run late for dates, honestly seems to be more the norm than the exception, but I take girls out of the LTR category when they can't even communicate that they're running late. However, I'm in the US, and I'd love to but I'd really be cockblocking myself if I got pissy over girls being flakey/late.

Post: #6

I always try to figure out if the girl has time to hang out and if yes, I will escalate like on an evening date. Pulled more than a couple to a motel room that way. Their guard is down because they are not expecting it (usually).

If it's obvious she cannot stay, I keep it short just to get her interest up and set up an evening date later on in the week.

Post: #7

Cool, thanks guys. Appreciate the info. I like the tip about sitting next to the person rather than across from them as well. The two things I wanted to avoid were the introductory bullshit chit chat happening in line or at the register and eating food with the person (if I wanted to eat with you I wouldn't have gone on a coffee date with you).

Post: #8

In traditional dating

You wait for her to arrive
You greet her verbally
Typically, you both order together and you pay for her five dollar coffee. And you don't make a big deal out of it.
Then you find a table and sit across from each other.
From there you have a polite chat and see if you like each other

That sets up a very proper and formal date.

This entire sequence is *not* what we, as players do.

WIA

Post: #9

^What is the right sequence for us players then, WIA?

Post: #10

My typical coffee date:

- Don't plan a coffee date.

Post: #11

I often suggest coffee just to get the number, but then arrange drinks.

If it has to be during the day, get the coffees to go. Walk around the park and escalate from there.

Post: #12

Coffee dates are the worst path to fast intamacy

Post: #13

If your early order you coffee in a to go cup. That way she has to order her drink in a to go cup too. Then go for a walk and if your hungry go grab a bite if not keep walking until you get to your house. If she comes in then you know what's going to happen next.

Post: #14

I've been on a few "coffee dates" or "frozen yogurt" dates that eventually lead to sex. The best time to do them is in the warm weather when there's somewhere else to bounce to, like a park. Say "why do we want to sit in this shop when it's so nice outside?" then bounce. Find a park bench in a secluded area, chat, escalate as you see fit, then pitch the move to your place or hers.

Sitting across from her at a table in the shop for two hours usually won't get you much of anywhere other than a "hug close" or a peck on the cheek at the end, and an unreturned follow-up text message. Sad to say, but the way the pace of "dating" has increased it seems more and more women figure that if a guy doesn't have the tight game to get them into the sack on a first date, regardless of venue, then he's not a man worthy of their time.

The key to getting first date lays from "nontraditional" venues (i.e. that aren't bars/clubs and so forth) all comes down to careful location selection, plausible deniability, and follow-up logistics. Who arrives first, who pays for the coffee, whether you get food or not, etc. are all sort of irrelevant points compared to these primary issues. For the couple "good dates" I've had from coffeshops/restaurants, for the life of me I definitely couldn't remember any of those details.

Post: #15

In my opinion and in my game, the golden rule for interacting with women is: "do what you feel like doing".

If/when you get a better handle on things, you'll realize how this rule applies to everything from a coffee date question to attracting her for sex. That's why it's (my) the golden rule.

Doing what you feel like doing draws her into your reality instead of you adapting to her reality. It makes you the leader. Wondering about what you 'should do' during a coffee date is a bad mindset. Do what you feel like doing. If you are hungry or thirsty and want to eat or drink, do that. If you wait to wait for her, do that.

You know that you have a preference, deep inside. Your preference is the answer. Anything other answer is removing you from the center of the equation and placing her there.

Whether it's accommodating her out of a desire to give her what you think that she wants or specifically not accommodating her to seem more 'alpha' (which is still adapting to her and thus ironically beta), it's a recipe for failure at this stage in the game. Always do what you want to do.

Just be aware of when you are holding back as well. It's easy to confuse "doing what you want to do" with "wanting to be indirect, over-accommodating, or otherwise shy" when in fact you are enacting behaviors to get something from her in the future without having the balls to be upfront about it. "Doing what you want to do" does not include these indirect behaviors that are covers for what you want to do/say. It only applies and works when you are being open and honest, albeit with skill, tact, and charm. Though, this conversation is a little out of bounds of this thread. All I am trying to relate is not to use my maxim to justify friend-zone worthy behavior. In the circumstance proposed in the OP, it applies to the question of etiquette as I explained.

What I would do is get there at any time (whatever you want to do - 5 mins early, on time, late, whatever) except for very early. If she's there, you can get something together. If she's not there yet, see what you feel like doing at that time.

Don't overthink it. Overthinking what you should do on dates will show, and it conveys the wrong things. Always do what you want to do, whether that's an elaborate date, a date that impresses her with cool spots, eating ahead of her or with her on a coffee date, or not putting in any effort. What you want to do sends the correct signals, and not doing it invariably sends the wrong signals. She's in your story, you're not in hers.

Post: #16

Thanks guys. These are definitely going beyond what I expected. I just had to ask these initial questions because I honestly am not a daytime person. I work a lot and don't get out much during the day but I'm trying to change that now after being here in Colombia and seeing how good people can be with daygame. At night, I would never hang out at a bar and wait for a date before getting a drink, so I just wanted to check if that was rude or super awkward at a coffee date, since you don't have either waitresses or a bar to sit at where you directly order from.

I'm in Medellin now and have good logistics for some of these coffee shops, so was definitely going to try to escalate to one of the parks here and then on from there. Offering girls a choice between a coffee date or drinks at night seems to make girls a little more at ease here from what I'm seeing, since everyone seems to think you're a sex tourist if you're white and from the US.

Post: #17

(04-12-2016 05:50 PM)hydrogonian Wrote:  In my opinion and in my game, the golden rule for interacting with women is: "do what you feel like doing".

If/when you get a better handle on things, you'll realize how this rule applies to everything from a coffee date question to attracting her for sex. That's why it's (my) the golden rule.

Doing what you feel like doing draws her into your reality instead of you adapting to her reality. It makes you the leader. Wondering about what you 'should do' during a coffee date is a bad mindset. Do what you feel like doing. If you are hungry or thirsty and want to eat or drink, do that. If you wait to wait for her, do that.

You know that you have a preference, deep inside. Your preference is the answer. Anything other answer is removing you from the center of the equation and placing her there.

Whether it's accommodating her or specifically not accommodating her to seem more 'alpha' (which is still adapting to her and thus ironically beta). That's a recipe for failure at this stage in the game. Always do what you want to do.

Just be aware of when you are holding back as well. It's easy to confuse "doing what you want to do" with "wanting to be indirect, over-accommodating, or otherwise shy" when in fact you are enacting behaviors to get something from her in the future without having the balls to be upfront about it. "Doing what you want to do" does not include these indirect behaviors that are covers for what you want to do/say. It only applies and works when you are being open and honest, albeit with skill, tact, and charm. Though, this conversation is a little out of bounds of this thread. All I am trying to relate is not to use my maxim to justify friend-zone worthy behavior. In the circumstance proposed in the OP, it applies to the question of etiquette as I explained.

What I would do is get there at any time (whatever you want to do - 5 mins early, on time, late, whatever) except for very early. If she's there, you can get something together. If she's not there yet, see what you feel like doing at that time.

Don't overthink it. Overthinking what you should do on dates will show, and it conveys the wrong things. Always do what you want to do, whether that's an elaborate date, a date that impresses her with cool spots, eating ahead of her or with her on a coffee date, or not putting in any effort. What you want to do sends the correct signals, and not doing it invariably sends the wrong signals. She's in your story, you're not in hers.

Post: #18

(04-12-2016 10:22 AM)Brodiaga Wrote:  ^What is the right sequence for us players then, WIA?

Great question, glad you asked.

OP is in Colombia, dealing with an entirely different culture - but the barebones of this sequence should apply.

There are a bunch of variations on this, so I'll just start with a typical US scenario

Guy sees girl on dating site.
He messages her.
She messages back.
He gets her phone #, and texts.
A handful of texts, and SHE SUGGESTS coffee.

It's good that she wants to meet up, but coffee suggests that this is basically an audition, a try out. Maybe just maybe, probably not, you'll be up to snuff.

That's her frame of mind.

As a player, you've got your own agenda.

1. What Day, What Time, What Venue?

The player goes into this knowing that she can stack the deck against him, against anything happening.

So the worst case scenario is Monday, Lunch Time, at the Starbucks downstairs from her office. If she doesn't immediately feel you, she can cut her losses immediately and not even give you a chance to show who you are. Reject anything that's too convenient for her.

Good scenarios are
- weeknight, Tuesday-Thursday
- weekday - Saturday or Sunday.

Now location...that depends on

2. What are your intentions for that specific meet up?
- Are you going for the super fast lay, less than 2 hours?
- Are you gonna put in the solid 7 hours?
- Is this more about screening (for you Seeking Arrangement dudes)

Intentions dictate to the location.

A super fast lay means you need a coffee spot close to where you want to sex her.

Solid 7 hours, you want the coffee spot to be at Point A, and then mosey to point B, walk to point c, Until you're pointing D into her V @ location F. You have the time to window shop, stroll the farmer's market, walk by the park, take a light lunch. Not because that's what you're going to do, but you have the option. And if the chick is lame, you want to be able to dump her and day game, IMMEDIATELY.

Screening - someplace neutral.

3. You may have to battle for the location.

If you don't get your ideal spots.

If you know your city, and your game is decent (like you know how to create attraction, when to neg, when to break rapport, when she's in comfort, what to do if she goes back to sassy mode...) - then the location doesn't particularly matter - except that it can't be her "home" coffee shop.

Minimize the amount of interaction she can have with other patrons (guys she's banging or orbiters or hating ass friends) and staff.

Even with good game - in a home base situation - you have to keep forcing her to pay attention to you when she's surrounded by friends, family, and acquaintances. It's like being invited to her house for X-Mas, and you don't know all the stupid stories and nicknames or people involved.

4. Arrival

If you get there first, start talking to people.
If she gets there first, talk to other people on your way to see her
If you both get there first talk to other people.

Why?

A chick wants a coffee date (or a breakfast date, or a brunch) because
- You're attractive enough to be seen with in public, but not so hot that she just wants you to Uber over to her flat for a little hide the salami session.
- Coffee date is low pressure for her - she won't be expected to dress up like she would for a club or a night time date
- There's no alcohol, so no chance of what happened last Thursday with that guy from the meat market martini lounge.
- And in her mind, there's no way she's gonna spread the legs before 11 pm.

Because the problem with online meetups is that as cute as the guy's photo is, they might be staged, or it could be lighting. As funny as his texts are, he might be boring in person.

What you want to do, even if you're an introvert, and especially if she's an introvert - is be social and show yourself being social.

That helps you pass the smell test, and it puts you in a social and talkative mood.

5. Ordering the coffee

You pay, you always pay. Let her get the next one, but it's just faster if you don't have to calculate who got what and whether to carry the 2.

Options
a) Cold Read
The two of you can get in line, and the obvious conversation is what kind of drink are you gonna get. Some guys are tempted to clown/troll/neg/tease off of whatever her choice is. A lame guy would compliment her.

Since a chick is typically stiff at the beginning of a date, you want low stakes fun. So have her guess what you drink, based off your profile, or you do try and cold read her coffee choice.

It's not about coffee, it's about interaction and getting the tone of the meet up right. Warm and engaging and social.

b) Using the Barista as a tool.

keep the socialization going and talk to her normally, but then riff with the barista about the craziest thing he's ever made. Bring her into the conversation, and use the barista as a verbal prop.

"We should totally get that"

c) Give her a job

You ask her what she wants, and then tell her to grab a table and you'll bring it.

This sets up a compliance frame, and if you were warm in the first few minutes of the interaction, she'll want you back because of social isolation.

The key with each of these steps is that what would be typically a normal coffee date - you're engineering in little pieces of game in order to get her interacting and complying. She's falling in to your frame, that's basically attraction.

This is within the first 10 minutes of seeing her.

Then the real headwork starts

6. The Conversation


The goal of this conversation
- Does she have any DTF Red Flags - i.e. is she batshit crazy?
- How did she get here? (did she drive, take the train, uber)
- What are her plans for the day/evening

- get the conversation flowing and move from formal/rigid/stiff to informal/relaxed/loose

A solid player plan usually involves night time and alcohol. Not to get her drunk, but a glass of wine loosens the tongue.

Coffee has the opposite effect. Day or night, she's going to be more alert.

So this is where you take advantage of that when it comes to your attraction and comfort game.

She's going to get more of what you actually say, in addition to your tone, body language, and other non-verbal communications.

So you want to flirt.
If she wakes up and gets sassy, you have to match wits until she breaks.
When she breaks, you go to comfort.
"You get serious for a second"

This is where the seduction happens.

She's already attracted, now she's verbally comfortable. And if you were smooth, you've been peppering the whole interaction with physical touches.

What's more, you know
- how she got there, and what you need to do if she drove
- who she lives with, who is checking up on her,
- what she had planned for the day, and whether or not she can squeeze in some sex/hanging out.

You could kiss her at a very dark coffee house, but the better move is to actually move her to someplace else.

This is where your knowledge of what's going on in your city is paramount.

You might take the game up a notch and suggest a local pub (which is conveniently close to your place)

Or if she's not there yet, take her for a walk someplace - because you picked a bad ass neighborhood that has walkable things to look at.
______________________________________________________

From there, it's basically connecting the dots.

Coffee House to Walk to Ice Cream to your place
Coffee house to bar to your place
Coffee House to Your place, if you sense she's really DTF and she passes your basic "crazy" screen.

The player walks into these situations with a plan.

WIA

Post: #19

Great writeup, WIA.

I don't like the coffee date.

I'd rather be "that guy from the meat market martini lounge."

Post: #20

It's been awhile that I haven't organised one, but I've always been a fan of the Roosh move of bouncing to 2 venues during the same night to give her the illusion that you went on 2 different dates! I used this as a crutch until I could create rapport out of thin air. You can try it out.

1) Schedule a coffee date or anything that you might like ( no movies though), and then close-by, you nonchalantly tell her that you're enjoying this, and that a nice drink is the way you love to enjoy a nice convo with a nice person... and then you game & escalate as usual

Post: #21

(04-12-2016 07:12 PM)redbeard Wrote:  Great writeup, WIA.

I don't like the coffee date.

I'd rather be "that guy from the meat market martini lounge."

They're really the same guy.

Game is just talking to a chick.

The only thing stopping her from pulling aside her panties is what you say to her.

And most guys don't even talk to the girls they really find attractive.

WIA

Post: #22

One thing I would like to add on is that most local coffee shops these days sell alcohol as well.

-Local Beers
-Mimosas and Sangria
-Wine
-O' Mara's Creamy Whiskey(usually used in Irish Coffee)

All of the above tend to be on the menu, and I would definitely try to get her down for some mid day Mimosas or Sangria after the first round of coffee(or try to push her to try some Irish coffee when going up to the counter if it's an especially cold Winter day). Highly suggest for everyone to get a good look around at some local places.

They are always the go too for day time Saturday afternoon dates for the above reason.

Fair warning I tend to be blitzed off Sangria before I know it so I would watch yourself mates. That pitcher goes down too fast and is stronger than it seems.

Post: #23

I used to write about getting girls in a party mode and taking shots.

At one point I questioned myself is this good game is this real game.

Of course it was I was getting laid left and right, upside down.

Screw coffee.

Alcohol, darkness, isolation, weed, loud music and a dab of cocaine. When in public Running For Mayor and making her your sidekick showgirl are what brings it back to your place quick.

Sounds bad because it is and it works. Girls want to lose control and get knocked out of their day to day.

Anytime I started trying to build too much comfort or worst of all share alot
about myself upfront, no bones.

Post: #24

(04-12-2016 10:25 PM)Travesty Wrote:  I used to write about getting girls in a party mode and taking shots.

At one point I questioned myself is this good game is this real game.

Of course it was I was getting laid left and right, upside down.

Screw coffee.

Alcohol, darkness, isolation, weed, loud music and a dab of cocaine. When in public Running For Mayor and making her your sidekick showgirl are what brings it back to your place quick.

Sounds bad because it is and it works. Girls want to lose control and get knocked out of their day to day.

Anytime I started trying to build too much comfort or worst of all share alot
about myself upfront, no bones.

Eh sometimes a man needs to appreciate a cute girl in a sundress. I'm down for some leather pants/shorts wearing party girls in crop tops the same as you, but a change of pace tends to have a nice contrast.

Post: #25

I used to be a switch it up daytime pastry muncher too.

When I finally let my mind accept I banged virgin good girls using the exact same strategy and attitude as hot party hoes I was finished with trying to be well rounded or compromising when it comes to date strategies.

Hell the most successful dater the forum ever had in the U.S. was BlurredSevens and his Zero Date strategy to get girls
coming over to play drinking games.

As close as you can mimick that the better off you are in my experience of trying all sorts of things.

If she doesn't drink I would play pool or bowl over coffee and try to get her back to your place. Anything with an excuse to touch her and laugh.

If I met a chick in a coffee shop daygaming the first thing if I instadated would be trying to get her the hell out of there to
somewhere else.