Post: #1

I've been seeing this Mexican girl for three months, solid 8/10 with slim body, firm round ass, and about average sized but nice tits. She's firmly conservative, family oriented, cooks and cleans, and made me wait 7-8 dates for sex despite me pushing hard early and often.

I consider myself an intermediate player. I'll fully admit that I make occasional mistakes and that relationships are not my forte. I entered the game late, (I'm 27 and only been doing this a few years) but my looks and confidence are very good. My inner game and charisma has become my strongest link; my actual experience with women is a little more limited. I pass most shit tests with flying colors. Hot girls check me out all the time in public and this girl sees this all the time.

So we hit it off very well for the first two months, but now I find that she's bitching and moaning about more shit. She complains that I take too much control, that I'm an asshole her to her and don't let her make decisions and don't listen, blah blah blah. A one time complaint is no big deal, but this won't go away. The other day she was purring like a kitten at a bar, so into me that I could tell that every other girl was noticing and giving me hard IoI's. Then when the hockey game turned on I paid more attention to it than her, and she started getting very bitchy and repeated that I'm very rude with her and whatnot. I couldn't snap her out of it so I just sent her home that night.

She still enthusiasticly replies to my texts when I toss her a bone, and she tries to look good for me and says that she's ugly. She says she isn't sure she wants a relationship with me and gives me a laundry list of things that I supposedly do wrong. I've been aloof and laughed her off but she's still bitching and moaning and has become less fun to be around as a result. Am I overgaming from a relationship context? Does this girl want commitment and I need to sprinkle in some beta male shit? Is there a cultural barrier I'm missing? If so, whats the best way of proceeding without falling into her frame? Like I said, I'm bad with relationships and need an honest critique. Ask me for more information if you need it.

I'd prefer to salvage this, improve her behavior to where it was earlier, and turn it into a relationship if possible. But I'm also prepared to move on if needed. I'm just tired of dealing with cunty American girls just for sex and would prefer to try a relationship with a quality woman for once.

Post: #2

From the sounds of your side of the story I don't see anything wrong with what you are doing. You're spending time with her, you guys go out, I assume you foot the bill for most of the things you do together (correct me if I'm wrong). I hope you're not ignoring her all the time or playing aloof-alpha-playboy with a girl who is already on lock. If she is your "girlfriend" you don't need to play asshole so much anymore. You can let up on that a bit - just be sure not to grow spineless and supplicant. Be your own man she is just along for the ride in your world etc.

Sounds to me like she is just being a demanding, entitled brat who is good at ruining a good time. When she is getting bitchy just tell her to stop. If she keeps going tell her to leave and you don't feel like seeing her until her mood clears up and she treats you nicer.

If it doesn't go away then show her the door. As long as you are doing your part of the relationship then she should show grace, appreciation, and accommodation. She needs to know that you could leave if she doesn't treat you right.

Post: #3

Yeah I don't know. It's the fact that the demands are starting to ruin the fun I've had with her. I'm not aloof to her, but I am the emotional rock when I get tested (I only slipped up once when she caught me at the wrong moment) She's been a lot of fun prior. She's a hot girl and dudes check her out all the time, but relative to me I do think she thinks she's lower SMV. A friend of mine suspects that she's just mad I haven't committed to her after three months and won't admit it, but when I asked her she said "not at all" then proceeded to tell me why I was an asshole. That said, she does bring up the girlfriend thing from time to time, the most recent time being the last time I saw her when she was fawning over me at the bar before acting like a bitch. I wonder how much of this is cultural, because Latinas are a different breed and she's my first Latin girl. She's full fledged Mexican and American culture has not affected her much if at all; she's only been in the country 8 months.

To answer your question, yes I do pay for most of our shit without making a big deal out of it, only because the girl barely makes any money.

I'll admit the sex with her hasn't been great yet as I had hoped. I had been fucking around with different condoms (I had been raw dogging girls on birth control lately - stupid, I know, and that's why I changed) and once had an episode of ED (hey, it happens to every man at some point) that she made a big deal out of. That said, shit happens and I think a good hard fucking will help her calm down a bit.

Post: #4

(04-23-2016 08:33 PM)bfg Wrote:  So we hit it off very well for the first two months, but now I find that she's bitching and moaning about more shit. She complains that I take too much control, that I'm an asshole her to her and don't let her make decisions and don't listen, blah blah blah

...

Am I overgaming from a relationship context? Does this girl want commitment and I need to sprinkle in some beta male shit? Is there a cultural barrier I'm missing? If so, whats the best way of proceeding without falling into her frame? Like I said, I'm bad with relationships and need an honest critique. Ask me for more information if you need it.

Is it possible she wants you to lead, but she's disappointed with the decisions you make?

If you want to lead in the relationship, you have to make decisions that work for her as well as for you.

Part of being good at that is knowing back to front what her tastes are.

You can elicit information from time to time about what she liked and didn't like from an experience. File that away in your head, and use it to make plans in the future that are more personalized for her.

Post: #5

good point. i do take her to places weve both liked, but i dont listen to everything she says. normally i dont give a fuck beause ive been doing he fwb thing for so long. ill consider this for next time

Post: #6

(04-23-2016 08:33 PM)bfg Wrote:  I've been seeing this Mexican girl for three months, solid 8/10 with slim body, firm round ass, and about average sized but nice tits. She's firmly conservative, family oriented, cooks and cleans, and made me wait 7-8 dates for sex despite me pushing hard early and often.

I consider myself an intermediate player. I'll fully admit that I make occasional mistakes and that relationships are not my forte. I entered the game late, (I'm 27 and only been doing this a few years) but my looks and confidence are very good. My inner game and charisma has become my strongest link; my actual experience with women is a little more limited. I pass most shit tests with flying colors. Hot girls check me out all the time in public and this girl sees this all the time.

So we hit it off very well for the first two months, but now I find that she's bitching and moaning about more shit. She complains that I take too much control, that I'm an asshole her to her and don't let her make decisions and don't listen, blah blah blah. A one time complaint is no big deal, but this won't go away. The other day she was purring like a kitten at a bar, so into me that I could tell that every other girl was noticing and giving me hard IoI's. Then when the hockey game turned on I paid more attention to it than her, and she started getting very bitchy and repeated that I'm very rude with her and whatnot. I couldn't snap her out of it so I just sent her home that night.

She still enthusiasticly replies to my texts when I toss her a bone, and she tries to look good for me and says that she's ugly. She says she isn't sure she wants a relationship with me and gives me a laundry list of things that I supposedly do wrong. I've been aloof and laughed her off but she's still bitching and moaning and has become less fun to be around as a result. Am I overgaming from a relationship context? Does this girl want commitment and I need to sprinkle in some beta male shit? Is there a cultural barrier I'm missing? If so, whats the best way of proceeding without falling into her frame? Like I said, I'm bad with relationships and need an honest critique. Ask me for more information if you need it.

I'd prefer to salvage this, improve her behavior to where it was earlier, and turn it into a relationship if possible. But I'm also prepared to move on if needed. I'm just tired of dealing with cunty American girls just for sex and would prefer to try a relationship with a quality woman for once.

Overall I think you've played this very well.

She is shit testing you (and will continue to do so forever...remember that) even if she isn't consciously aware of it. The minute you become too attentive you will lose position on her.

Push +

Pull -

Fear-

Desire+

Positive +

Negative-

Let her comfort/ security become stable and she will get bored.

Keep her slightly insecure and you will keep her

IMO, you're doing fine. Play on

Post: #7

One of the most common things I've noticed with Latina girls is that they almost always have some ex-boyfriend from way back (HS/early College) who they keep in contact with.

They're rarely ever truly single.

Whenever the shadow guy pisses them off, you look better in comparison and she'll be sweet as honey. Whenever shadow guy texts something sweet and invokes some fond memory her behavior changes. Not saying that's the case but something worth considering as a possible option.

I don't think you did anything wrong from what you wrote.

Post: #8

^
OP, I suggest you do the same.

If you're not in contact with other girls, I suggest you do so.

Put them at least in the friend zone and keep them as safeties.

That way, if your girl crosses the line, you'll be less hesitant to drop her, and you'll be able to move on much quicker.

Post: #9

Thanks for the good replies so far. I consider any bad behavior to be a shit test, and at this point I'm just surprised by the significant increase of the frequency of the shit tests. It just makes me wonder if they are commitment oriented (she's not officially my girlfriend yet, and she's stated that she hasn't done this before and in her culture she expects the guy to ask the girl to be his girlfriend - but I want to see consistently good behavior before I commit to anything). Like I said there's been a few things I haven't pulled off perfectly, but ultimately there's no question that I'm maintaining my frame and control the relationship.

If she has a boyfriend I'd be surprised; she lives with the family that hosts her as a nanny and she doesn't have a reliable car, and she hasn't given a sign that she's cheating. I know some dude at the gym hits on her pretty hard (he sounds pretty smooth) and I just tease her about him. Anyway, the last time she told me about everything in the relationship that she didn't like, I let her rant, nuzzled my head in her tits and gave her the "mistakes were made" non-apology while she cried for me. She was all smiles after that. I'm thinking I'll be doing that again.

Post: #10

My limited experience with latinas is that the shit testing will not stop until you meet it with a hyper-masculine response, and I'm seriously talking two microns short of domestic abuse. South American relationship dynamics are way different to Western ones. It's not just a variation on Spanish or Italian passions. There's a reason that spousal abuse is nicknamed "Mexican foreplay" in the border states of the USA.

Fucked up, but there it is. I don't advocate for hitting women, but you're going to have dance pretty close to it to put her in line.

Latinas are definitely worth it in my opinion, but not unless you're willing to be muy masculino. Assert serious dominance and you'll be in heaven. Fail to do so and you'll be putting up with her bullshit until the sun burns out.

Post: #11

Absolutely true and the challenge has generally been fun. I know that when I go back to dating other races it will feel like cake in comparison. I wish I could find more resources on dating latinas, especially ltrs. I found a few discussions here but not a lot.

Post: #12

A few months ago I was out with my buddy and we met 2 smoking hot Latinas (9s). After about an hour one of them started going off about how she dominates men. I hadn't interacted with her all night but got right in her face and with a smile on my face, said very loud and clear, "I'll dominate you!" From that point forward she was all over me and telling everyone she was my wife. Unfortunately she got sloppy drunk so even though she had her hands down my pants in the uber to the "afterparty" at my buddy's I ended up not sleeping with her. For moral reasons and self protection I don't sleep with sloppy drunk girls.

The point is, the dynamic with Latin girls is way different than with Anglo girls. I would never recommend hitting, pushing etc. But, you might get her to consent to some BDSM. This would create a safe outlet for her to submit and you to dominate. I've done this very successfully with my LTRs (even one who is quite feminist) and it is surprisingly effective in keeping drama to a minimum in a relationship.

Post: #13

Not sure where the Latina aspect comes in here.

She wants you to invest in the relationship, and that will start the decline into being a 'beta'. It'll start with love, but 3 months into it, you're going to be doing shit with her/for her, that you don't like or is inconvenient for you.

Asian, White, Black, Middle Eastern, and Indian girls follow the same pattern. Game 101.

So she does all this good stuff for you, and you are not acting like you're supposed to.

You're not budging, and she's getting frustrated. Every guy gives into her. It's not even about her, it's what guys do. In her mind at least.

Now you're concerned that she might bounce.

So on a very small scale, what she's doing is working. She may not realize it, but the fact that you're asking us this question means she's gotten to you.

"If I don't change my behavior, I might lose my access to her pussy and other services."

That's fine, you sound new to the game.

She's going to push the situation to the point where she gives you an ultimatum. "We're serious or we're not."

a) If you're weak, you'll fall for it. She get what she wants on her terms, and that sets the pattern for the relationship. (there is some possible game jujitsu after that, but let's not even go there)

b) If you're strong, you'll say no, and she'll leave (at least for a while, but maybe forever). You've got to hope she comes back after taking that loss. But all that will tell you is that she's in love with you.

This seems like a no-win position.

What the player would and should have done in the past is LIMIT HIS CONTACT WITH A CHICK.
- this cuts down on her wanting you to be her MAN.
- cuts down on you giving into her just based on familiarity.

She's basically been doing girlfriend shit for you, and you've been accepting it.

That's where you made your mistake. It's a common one.

When you interact with a woman, you need to give her a role, and make her stick to it. Give her things to do, and she gets deeper into the role.
When you don't give her something to do, she does what comes naturally.

You didn't set the frame of the relationship early. You did not correct her girlfriend behavior, and then you let her take her own emotional journey.

You've got to stop that type of investment from the very beginning.

That's all a girl knows how to do. That's all she's ever been taught.
And when she does it, and you accept it, but don't give her what she wants - she's only going to get mad and get frustrated.

You need to introduce a different type of investment.

If you want a sexual relationship with her, that's how you frame her role and that changes her investment.

She has to keep upping the ante sexually and keep things very animalistic and surface. You do not want romantic and deep.

You let her get the affection from you after the bang. Cause you can't kick her out of your place after you get a nut. Enjoy the afterglow. But don't let it bleed into her hanging out all day with you, not having sex.

So when you're not together, you aren't sending cute texts, you aren't going to the movies, you aren't doing the sort of thing that would make her think that you're anything other than a source of intense sexual pleasure.

But you don't have a time machine do you?

So since you started on the wrong foot, how do you course correct?

Unless you're going to get into a monogamous long term relationship with this girl - this relationship is going to end.

lemme repeat,

IT'S GOING TO END.

And even if you LTR this chick, there's a high chance that it will end anyway, and you'll lose valuable time when you could have been out running game on other chicks, racking up notches and experiences and hotter girls.

It's not ever yet. And you're at the cross roads.

She's going to keep harping on this boyfriend thing and try to wear you down...

So tell her what's up, and break up with her, FIRST.

You want different things, and it's not fair to either of you, if you keep her on the hook. She will want to stay with you, but keeping her around just for sex, not for love, is the mans' version of putting a chick in the friend zone. It's also a good way for her to "slip up" and now you're on the hook for a baby.

It's not the answer you want to hear, but the reality is that you can't put a girl on ice, you can't turn down the temperature on her love feelings.

You can always play games, but those waste your time.

WIA

Post: #14

^

Post: #15

I appreciate the devil's advocate role, and some of that is applicable advice. However it sounds like you didn't read my objective., I'm not looking for only sex, I'd prefer a ltr with this chick under my terms. However before I commit this girl needs to improve her behavior to what it was before, or else I will bounce.
I certainly agree that I have fucked things up, but I have little ltr experience and it's a learning process. I have limited contact with her after she starts acting bitchy. I've done most things well but theres certainly room for improvement with my game. Thats why im here, for learning. If this has to end then it has to end.

Post: #16

(04-24-2016 11:58 AM)bfg Wrote:  I appreciate the devil's advocate role, and some of that is applicable advice. However it sounds like you didn't read my objective., I'm not looking for only sex, I'd prefer a ltr with this chick under my terms. However before I commit this girl needs to improve her behavior to what it was before, or else I will bounce.
I certainly agree that I have fucked things up, but I have little ltr experience and it's a learning process. I have limited contact with her after she starts acting bitchy. I've done most things well but theres certainly room for improvement with my game. Thats why im here, for learning. If this has to end then it has to end.

smdh...lead a horse to water...

If you want a relationship on your terms, what are your terms exactly?

When you withdraw attention, does she know why?

After you come back to her, has she improved?

If she keeps fucking up, how long do you withdraw your attention for?

When he does the right thing, how do you reward her? The way you want to, or what she wants or what she needs?

You're not giving her a role that she can fulfill.
It's not clear that you know what you want out of her either.

WIA

Post: #17

Upon further consideration, I cut the cord with her. I had enough issues with her despite it being a very promising start. Better to learn from the experience and move on to other girls.

Post: #18

Good points wia, I'll consider them for the next girl.

Post: #19

(04-24-2016 05:19 PM)bfg Wrote:  Upon further consideration, I cut the cord with her. I had enough issues with her despite it being a very promising start. Better to learn from the experience and move on to other girls.

Thats probably best. If you want to LTR this one, and she is bitching and moaning in the first 90 days, you are setting yourself up for misery.

Post: #20

(04-24-2016 10:51 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  So tell her what's up, and break up with her, FIRST...

(04-24-2016 05:19 PM)bfg Wrote:  Upon further consideration, I cut the cord with her. I had enough issues with her despite it being a very promising start. Better to learn from the experience and move on to other girls.

When a member listens to good advice and pushes the button marked NEXT: