Post: #1

Thoughts?

_____________________

If a female answers a cell-phone call in the middle of dinner, Leykis advises that the male should immediately get up and leave. He justifies this as follows:


* It is possible that the caller is another man who she is going to have sex with when she finishes her date.

* If the caller is one of her children, the man is already violating Leykis' 'no-single-mothers' rule.

* If the call is work related, and is deemed more important than the man now, it will always be more important.

* If the caller is a friend, Leykis claims, the woman is "most certainly lying because all her friends know she's out."


Leykis 101 Students believe that if a woman deems her male date unimportant enough that she feels comfortable answering her cell phone during the date, she is not sufficiently interested in having sex with the man. This really applies to two people that don't know each other or have never had sex with each other before.


Leave the resturant and the bill with her immediately, Tom advises that this would save the man a good deal of money. In contrast, he believes the man should always carry a cell phone on dates.


Leykis' logic follows that a man ignoring a woman for a work related call will actually make him look more "important and in control", thereby drastically reducing the "waiting period" women observe before having sex with men they're dating. Leykis claims that a woman will try to test a man, trying to focus his attention on her and, he believes, there's a good chance that sex might be part of the attention-getting hunt.
_____________


WIA

Post: #2

I do not agree with the last two. Sometimes friends call to check up on me when I say I am going somewhere, but usually it is related to work or the social circle I'm in.

If the girl is young and works in some demanding dead-end job, I'm not going to get angry about it.

Also the girl can easily excuse herself to the restroom and answer the call just the same, so I really cant agree with everything he is saying!

Post: #3

Double edged sword.

One side can possibly show you as insecure and weak - but by not being able to handle the call/text. (Woman's logic) "Like OMG he freaked out because my phone rang and I answered it"

The other side shows you don't take shit from people and see it as a rude. (Male and regular logic) "Dude she interrupted our date to gossip with her friend"

A few things come to mind here:

-Lack of respect
-Lack of SMV
-Lack of frame

Of course women test you all the time, that's alot of how they decide on fucking you or not.


I've dealt with a woman pulling her phone out before, I've either given them shit or teased them about it. (It's happened 2 or 3 times in my years of dating).

Situation one, she was texting, so I constantly fucked with her, and her phone, even took it away or put in her purse. I can't remember if I got the bang.

Situation two, this girl goes to the bathroom and ended up being on the phone with her mom in the bathroom (planning her bday/her mom has cancer), I ended up watching the game at the bar, ended up fucking her the next date, we never met again.

Situation 3, this was very early in my dating, she was snapping and texting while we grabbed a drink, fucked with her phone, got her home, but she got annoying, and sent her on her way.

I might tease her about having that escape text and how I already have mine on stand by.

or

"So you're one of THOSE girls" - when she pulls out her phone.


Nowadays, I ALWAYS drop a line about a 15 minute date I had and how I left her with her part of the tab, because I don't have time to be disrespected and I don't like wasting time how "Life's too short for that BS" I also drop how the girl went off on me afterwards via text and all I said was "k" - which made her crazy. Then a week later she wants to make it up to me, but I ended up deleting her phone number.


This brings a few reactions:
-If her phone is out, it goes in the purse
-She agrees that it's rude to be on your phone
-She laughs about a good story
-She now knows I'm cutthroat about dating
-She now is hamstering and qualifying herself.

These are good things for a female to know when we're on a date. My 15 minute date story makes her laugh BUT it sends the message I won't be fucked with.

If a woman pulls out her phone, call her out in an disarming way. If she pulls it out one more time to text, I'd bounce.

If she answers a phone call while you're talking with her, I'd bounce.

Don't ever be disrespected.

I haven't had a woman whip out her phone like that or even text on dates in a very long time. Perhaps if we're showing each other pictures and a text pops up.

Post: #4

When I'm in a good mood I just flip it on her and get her to work back the lost points from the negative perception she created. You can always read a few things here and there about that kind of situation to get her feeling some way or another.

If it's her parents it actually adds a few points in my head. Though I have to pretend on the outside otherwise. Tease her and call her a bit childish and if she wants to rest her head on daddy's lap she could have just asked.

Just like with that you can play it in different ways to get her feeling every which way.

Though I also think I posted this elsewhere, but honestly unique food trucks and backwater restaurants with hardly passable tables tend to be the better venues for taking a chick. The formal Italian dinner tends to be done a few bangs in.

Texting on the other hand I can't tolerate worth shit. I will fuck with her, grab her phone, and tease her the extra mile. It's a bit of a pet peev, and it's about principle not even the bang anymore.

Post: #5

If the call is anything but an emergency it's bad etiquette and a barometer of what she thinks your status is, basically zero.

Post: #6

(06-27-2016 03:50 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  Thoughts?

_____________________

If a female answers a cell-phone call in the middle of dinner, Leykis advises that the male should immediately get up and leave. He justifies this as follows:


* It is possible that the caller is another man who she is going to have sex with when she finishes her date.

* If the caller is one of her children, the man is already violating Leykis' 'no-single-mothers' rule.

* If the call is work related, and is deemed more important than the man now, it will always be more important.

* If the caller is a friend, Leykis claims, the woman is "most certainly lying because all her friends know she's out."

Tom is a little too all or nothing for me. He doesn't really preach much calibration which I think is relevant in this situation. Her ENTIRE behaviour is vastly more important than whether she takes the call or not.

If it's an important call (work or family related) and she is polite about it and apologetic afterwards (or at least explains why it's so important), then no big deal. There are few reasons why it'd be acceptable to answer the phone on a date, but making this a no exception rule is kind of silly.

If it's not an important call or she makes no effort to explain why she had to take the call, yeah absolutely leave. Also, you should consider whether you've properly gamed her before-hand. A girl should not be interested in her phone when she's on a date with you if you've gamed her properly.

As an aside, I've stopped listening to Tom Leykis because he is pushing a lot of liberal/blue-pill beliefs lately in stark contrast to the rest of his content. It's really rather disappointing that he parrots a shitload of "Trump is a dangerous racist" unsupported ideology and has that pseudo intellectual Mexican La Raza apologist Gustavo Arellano on the show a lot.

I like it much more when he has the lawyer Adam Sacks on the show. It's sad because I was going to become a paid listener, but now he doesn't get any listening at all from me and certainly not my money. It's too bad because I enjoyed his show.

Post: #7

^ Tom went blue pill? I find that hard to believe and sad at the same time... I haven't listened to him in ages, but at one point he was a proto red pill mentor of sorts.

Post: #8

Unless I can physically meet a guy and see how he acts with women and those around him; I don't believe anything he says.

Post: #9

Sounds like those guys make up random stuff just so they can say they have specific lessons or guidelines to teach you.

Ive had many girls pick up calls on dates, just be chill about everything and dont overthinj yourself into a corner. Unless she makes you wait forever, its a normal thing to do.

Post: #10

(06-27-2016 04:05 PM)kaotic Wrote:  Nowadays, I ALWAYS drop a line about a 15 minute date I had and how I left her with her part of the tab, because I don't have time to be disrespected and I don't like wasting time how "Life's too short for that BS" I also drop how the girl went off on me afterwards via text and all I said was "k" - which made her crazy. Then a week later she wants to make it up to me, but I ended up deleting her phone number.


This brings a few reactions:
-If her phone is out, it goes in the purse
-She agrees that it's rude to be on your phone
-She laughs about a good story
-She now knows I'm cutthroat about dating
-She now is hamstering and qualifying herself.

These are good things for a female to know when we're on a date. My 15 minute date story makes her laugh BUT it sends the message I won't be fucked with.

Good stuff. Excellent, simple way to set the frame.

Regarding OP, when I first read it it seemed a little extreme. After reading kaotic's post, I know why. It's extreme to bail just because one of those things happen, if the chick has no clue or warning from you that you'll do that. She may have no reference to any boundaries, given the absolutes that Leykis mentions.

Any time a player uses absolutes without giving any context, any time it reads like religious or cult-like absolutism, I cringe a little.

This may work for him, but this is the type of advice that a less experienced dude would use, only to leave him with his dick in his hand too many times because the actions aren't congruent with the mindset or frame he's presenting.

kaotic's input is far more useful. To casually fit in a mention of that 15 minute date where you bailed etc, sets the frame for the girl to either follow or not follow. Sure, even kaotic's method could backfire, if the anecdote is brought up awkwardly, or if the incongruity causes too many chicks to test it, but kaotic's at least gives a more useful context within which to employ.

Quote:Leykis 101 Students believe that if a woman deems her male date unimportant enough that she feels comfortable answering her cell phone during the date, she is not sufficiently interested in having sex with the man.

^--This decree pretty much sums up my disagreement with his rules. (1) Yes, her interest in her phone is telling for how the date goes. (2) Sure, if she has no interest in her phone during the date, she's really really into you. (3) However, if she has any interest in her phone during the date, it doesn't necessarily mean she's not really really into you.

Post: #11

Okay, I'm not some uber-player but here's my two cents.

If you're trying to find an LTR then obviously this kind of behaviour might warrant pulling the eject lever.

If you're just trying to bang the bitch then you simply need to make a quick assessment on whether this is still a possibility or not and proceed accordingly. If you're out just to get your dick in her then her behaviour is relevant only in as much as how it affects your outcome.

She answers her phone? Point to the bar and "give her some privacy". Walk over to the bar and preferably sit next to the best looking woman there (no approach, just proximity). Order something for yourself immediately.

Outcome. She'll drop her phone-focus and recognise that she's not the only game in town. If she has a shit-fit then you never had a chance anyway and you can use her rude breakdown as a "can you believe that?" icebreaker with the new girl.
More likely she'll put the phone away quickly. Signal to your drink, inferring that you'll get her one if she wants. Likely she'll signal "no", being embarrassed and wanting to get things back on track.

Focus recovered without compromising manhood.

Or am I way off?

Post: #12

The situation seemed a bit strange to me.

If they have never had sex, why is the man taking her on a dinner? Yes, guys can jump in and say it still works, but that's far from optimal.

So the scenario doesn't make much sense for most of us players here.

Now if you are in a bar date, I would do as the OP said because the situation is justified and not extreme. Leave her with the tab and hop on the next bar and have fun. Sure you could still have gotten the bang, but my dignity doesn't allow it. Ever since I'm with my girlfriend my BS tolerance goes to negative: been one year and she doesnt even text in my presence. I will not tolerate such shit from any other girl.

I think the last point in OP is quite interesting: if she expected to sleep with you, she would have already made arrangements to do so. I recall one of my best date, the girl didn't touch her phone at all and she stays at her parents'. Guess she did warned them earlier about not sleeping home that night.

==> so if she is still letting people bothering her while on a date with you, you are expendable. And since you are not, cut that shit off.

Post: #13

"Or am I way off?"

No. You are right on, great way to deal with it.

Post: #14

I'm with Dalaran, why are we taking a girl we haven't banged to dinner?

Post: #15

@Akwesi

You could be screening her. If she wants to think of it as a reward, or her price, that's her business.

As far as behavior modification or expectation management - if you can't get her on your team post meal your game needs serious work.

Lots of would-be-players are stuck on that lover/provider binary. They see everything as supplication.

If you choose to pay for a coffee, or a drink, or a meal, (for a regular chick), you can't be paralyzed with the idea that you somehow lost "hand"

"Game" should free you, not control you.

WIA

Post: #16

I met up with a chick yesterday at a coffee shop who initially was texting back n forth to her friend about some b/s she told me. I chuckled and thought of this post. I gave her a pass because she was young and seemed nervous. Once I began to build comfort, she closed her laptop and the phone went away. I guess there are a myriad of factors that goes into a woman's behavior. Anyhow, I cut the date short at the height of her interest. O/T a bit, but I love doing that shit, lol. It's such a power play.

Post: #17

unless it's a real emergency, i don't see why a girl would have to take a phone call during a date. Leave

Post: #18

The biggest takeaway is making sure she doesn't have a REASON to pull out her phone during a date.

By this I mean getting into her mind, having her focused on you and not worrying about anything else.

You ARE the prize, and she should know it. She's trying to win YOUR attention - not the other way around.


I doubt Tom Leykis actually did the move he's talking about - this sounds like a theory more than something he actually put in play.

This coming from a guy who was married and divorced FOUR times. He can't even get up and walk away from the thought of marriage.

Aneroid calling him out makes me even think less of him and his theories.

Post: #19

(06-28-2016 10:32 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  @Akwesi

You could be screening her. If she wants to think of it as a reward, or her price, that's her business.

As far as behavior modification or expectation management - if you can't get her on your team post meal your game needs serious work.

Lots of would-be-players are stuck on that lover/provider binary. They see everything as supplication.

If you choose to pay for a coffee, or a drink, or a meal, (for a regular chick), you can't be paralyzed with the idea that you somehow lost "hand"

"Game" should free you, not control you.

WIA

WIA,

I agree on not getting stuck on the lover/provider dichotomy. If anything, I go for being an "alpha provider" in a context where that makes sense. But even in that context, I have found there's a lot of merit to "zero date" over going to dinner (if you haven't banged the girl before).

Post: #20

I don't disagree Akwesi, but point and click pimping with Amazon prime option is why you need to screen.

Right now pussy is on sale. But chicks are coming up on good goods without putting in the requisite work.

Post: #21

(06-28-2016 09:21 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  Okay, I'm not some uber-player but here's my two cents.

If you're trying to find an LTR then obviously this kind of behaviour might warrant pulling the eject lever.

If you're just trying to bang the bitch then you simply need to make a quick assessment on whether this is still a possibility or not and proceed accordingly. If you're out just to get your dick in her then her behaviour is relevant only in as much as how it affects your outcome.

She answers her phone? Point to the bar and "give her some privacy". Walk over to the bar and preferably sit next to the best looking woman there (no approach, just proximity). Order something for yourself immediately.

Outcome. She'll drop her phone-focus and recognise that she's not the only game in town. If she has a shit-fit then you never had a chance anyway and you can use her rude breakdown as a "can you believe that?" icebreaker with the new girl.
More likely she'll put the phone away quickly. Signal to your drink, inferring that you'll get her one if she wants. Likely she'll signal "no", being embarrassed and wanting to get things back on track.

Focus recovered without compromising manhood.

Or am I way off?

+1

In short, I give her the same leeway I would expect for myself. Meaning that each call has to be evaluated on its own:

- My kid's sitter calls, I'm going to answer it, first call, no question (and honestly, I would be not only surprised but disgusted if a woman said "It's just the sitter" and DIDN'T answer her phone).

- My buddy calls me for the possible eject. If I need to eject, I answer and jump. If I'm good, a few minutes later I'll go to the bathroom and send him an "All good" text.

- A work call ? Yeah, she gets one. A short one. As in, someone calling to see if she made the night drop, or if she knows where the keys to the register are, etc. And that's if they've called a couple of times before she answers it.

Any other calls or texts, all depends on what it is and what you want from the encounter. But the above are the only ones I'd give leeway to, as I'd answer in those situations myself.

Post: #22

It's a double-edged sword.

Babysitter: Obviously, if my kids' babysitter is calling me, there must be something important for them to call me knowing that I'm out. I'll answer it for sure. Which makes me think: Why the fuck are you taking a single mom to dinner?

Work: This is acceptable as long as it isn't long. Something such as "I need you to come tomorrow at 12:00 to work" is acceptable. Depending on the job, some jobs like mine sometimes have situations where immediate attention is required, i.e. I'll answer even if I'm fucking.

Friend: A "I'm out, I'll call you later" might be acceptable if it stays under 15 seconds. However if anything gets longer than that, it's not acceptable.

Anything else isn't supposed to be tolerated. Texting is even worse. I usually give one (and only one) warning during a date, as I can understand that a girl can genuinely get carried away. But at the second warning, I bounce. For example, if I'm talking and she pulls her phone out to send a text, I immediately stop talking, stare at the phone, and usually she gets the point. If she takes it out for longer than 10 seconds, I tell her "Let me know when you're finished".

I once had a girl reply to "let me know when you're finished" by "finished what? I'm just checking Facebook, nothing wrong with that". I immediately bounced.

Post: #23

A short work emergency call, a text to bff that "i'm fine he's cool,' and answering a call from parents [again short] are all fine with me, then you make her make it up to you.

I see answering the parents call as a good sign, but any sign of lame chit-chat I give her a look and if she doesn't hang up I'll go to the bathroom and text 2 other chicks to meet later.

Post: #24

I agree with Leonard above, it all depends on whether you're after a LTR or a quick lay.

If it's the latter, tease her about it, game on, whatever. Those girls would already have way more significant red flags than being too attached to their phones anyway, such as tattoos, dead eyes etc. Overanalysing that one flag is a waste of time.

If it's the former, that's a massive sign of disrespect and also she's not that into you. You should be looking into either ejecting or mentally moving her into the quick lay basket.

Women who are into you will make a big show to put their phones away. My LTR in the early dating stage would turn her phone off during our dates, and would ask my permission to use it if she needed to call her family or take their calls. Now when we go on dates or even just a stroll in the neighbourhood, she would leave her phone at home. That's the behaviour of a woman who's very into you and respects you.

Post: #25

(06-27-2016 04:55 PM)Red_Pillage Wrote:  ^ Tom went blue pill? I find that hard to believe and sad at the same time... I haven't listened to him in ages, but at one point he was a proto red pill mentor of sorts.

Most of Tom's audience are Mexicans living in California. Supporting Trump would pretty much kill his business.

Also, his game advice used to be better. Now it's all about him bragging about his success in the past and feeding his big ego. There are some pearls of wisdom, but you have to waste too much time listening to all the stupid BS to find them. Not that Tom is stupid, but he has to tailor his message to the average listener.

Adam Sachs' episodes are gold. Tom's episodes about making and saving money are on point, particularly using low cost Vanguard investments and being frugal. The rest of the show is shit. Mostly stupid jokes, regurgitating the same points he made years ago and trying to shame listeners into paying for premium subscription. I used to listen to him regularly, but stopped. Not worth it to me even for free.