Post: #1

Alright guys, today I wanna exchange with you about the lies in the community.
I'm not talking about RVF but more in the general PUA community. Some stuff we have heard a lot but don't believe anymore after some experience so that maybe some future beginners won't fall for it.

I'll start:

Alpha is the answer
After reading a lot of content, it seems the more alpha you are, the more pussy you have.
I would say it's partly true : after a certain point, if you try to be more dominant, you will more scare some girls than attract them. IMO, if the girl is high value, it's a good bet to show some real alpha-ness. But if the girl is just cute (closer to average), for numerous case, it can be useful to behave a bit more beta so not to scare her. Remember alpha=danger and if so much bang happen in the social circle it is because the girl feels confortable and safe (while having sexual tension) with the guy.
So in reality the master word would be to calibrate : no matter the girl, you always lead but if she's real high value, increase your alpha-ness accordingly

Approaching
Don't become an approach machine. I saw this a lot with beginners, they approach way too much and makes them creepy. Is is recommended to approach a lot? Yes, but use some reason. First of all, if you approach a lot, I doubt you find all these girls really attractive, so why bother? Everything is a matter of balance, not excess. Besides, please, don't do just game all week long : it's okay (and healthy) to do other stuff too.

Peacocking
It works IMO only in the anglosphere and with a kind of "rockstar game" i.e. if you have a weird and mysterious vibe, high quality social circle, just like a celebrity. It's perfect for guys like Mystery but I really doubt it will fit the typical player.

My method is the best
Yes, that's what every so called guru want to make you believe so you buy their products. In reality, when you progress, you will discover your truly (best) authentic self and hopefully will create your own game. For example, I use a mix of prizing (Swinggcat), kinos from gambler and some stuff of my own (pattern/storytelling).
My advice : take your time to find (and write?) what works for you! It's long, I know, but it's well worth it.

You can get any girl with enough game
In Bang, Roosh is one of the few who state that even if X girl don't like you, Y girl do. I do believe that the better your game is, the higher your odd of sleeping with an HB is. But it will never be 100%. Why should it be anyway? If you have standards, you don't wanna sleep with any girl too.

After enough time learning/practicing Game, life is perfect
If we believe what some PUA say, it seem like sufficient Game make your life perfect : "get any girl you want", "how to have unlimited amount of hot girls all the time", etc.
Does Game improve your overall happiness? Hell yeah! But still, life is messy. You can have "off" nights, dry spell, or whatever. If it's occasional it's okay. You should embrace the messiness of life and you will be more relaxed.

Other examples/do you agree?

Post: #2

(09-12-2016 12:07 PM)James Bond Next level Wrote:  Alpha is the answer
After reading a lot of content, it seems the more alpha you are, the more pussy you have.
I would say it's partly true : after a certain point, if you try to be more dominant, you will more scare some girls than attract them. IMO, if the girl is high value, it's a good bet to show some real alpha-ness. But if the girl is just cute (closer to average), for numerous case, it can be useful to behave a bit more beta so not to scare her. Remember alpha=danger and if so much bang happen in the social circle it is because the girl feels confortable and safe (while having sexual tension) with the guy.
So in reality the master word would be to calibrate : no matter the girl, you always lead but if she's real high value, increase your alpha-ness accordingly

http://www.rooshv.com/its-okay-to-be-a-beta-male

Quote:Approaching
Don't become an approach machine. I saw this a lot with beginners, they approach way too much and makes them creepy. Is is recommended to approach a lot? Yes, but use some reason. First of all, if you approach a lot, I doubt you find all these girls really attractive, so why bother? Everything is a matter of balance, not excess. Besides, please, don't do just game all week long : it's okay (and healthy) to do other stuff too.

http://www.rooshv.com/be-thirsty-but-not-too-much

Quote:Peacocking
It works IMO only in the anglosphere and with a kind of "rockstar game" i.e. if you have a weird and mysterious vibe, high quality social circle, just like a celebrity. It's perfect for guys like Mystery but I really doubt it will fit the typical player.

http://www.rooshv.com/not-all-women-of-t...alpha-male

Quote:My method is the best
Yes, that's what every so called guru want to make you believe so you buy their products. In reality, when you progress, you will discover your truly (best) authentic self and hopefully will create your own game. For example, I use a mix of prizing (Swinggcat), kinos from gambler and some stuff of my own (pattern/storytelling).
My advice : take your time to find (and write?) what works for you! It's long, I know, but it's well worth it.

http://www.rooshv.com/16-different-types-of-game

Quote:You can get any girl with enough game
In Bang, Roosh is one of the few who state that even if X girl don't like you, Y girl do. I do believe that the better your game is, the higher your odd of sleeping with an HB is. But it will never be 100%. Why should it be anyway? If you have standards, you don't wanna sleep with any girl too.

/archive/inde...20146.html

Quote:After enough time learning/practicing Game, life is perfect
If we believe what some PUA say, it seem like sufficient Game make your life perfect : "get any girl you want", "how to have unlimited amount of hot girls all the time", etc.
Does Game improve your overall happiness? Hell yeah! But still, life is messy. You can have "off" nights, dry spell, or whatever. If it's occasional it's okay. You should embrace the messiness of life and you will be more relaxed.

http://www.rooshv.com/just-keep-going

Post: #3

(09-12-2016 12:07 PM)James Bond Next level Wrote:  snip

Not really firing shots here, most of this is common sense.

Post: #4

I appreciate that perhaps English is not your first language, but I doubt calling these things 'lies' is going to go down well. Present it more as what you think is wrong with these ideas, and then your solutions.

Often the guys who are trying too hard to be 'alpha' or struggle to comprehend how approaching too much can be detrimental are borderline autistic or are very socially inept and try too hard to compensate.

There's always a tendency to overcomplicate how things work with women, so stick to the basics and you can't go wrong. Dress and look sharp, be confident and authoritative, and know how to hook women in. It's really not that hard.

Post: #5

XPQ22 > thank you very much.

(09-12-2016 01:05 PM)britchard Wrote:  I appreciate that perhaps English is not your first language, but I doubt calling these things 'lies' is going to go down well. Present it more as what you think is wrong with these ideas, and then your solutions.

Often the guys who are trying too hard to be 'alpha' or struggle to comprehend how approaching too much can be detrimental are borderline autistic or are very socially inept and try too hard to compensate.

There's always a tendency to overcomplicate how things work with women, so stick to the basics and you can't go wrong. Dress and look sharp, be confident and authoritative, and know how to hook women in. It's really not that hard.

I agree with your analysis, and I already tried to give my opinion on what to do. You're right, "lies" is a powerful word, maybe it's because I'm still pissed off : a few month back I paid 2 k€ for a coaching (local a bit famous guy). After a (short) while, he stopped being present for me, I realized his teachings was pretty much B.S. and he was more keen on making money (and bragging) than helping people. I was manipulated like an idiot, let's be honest.
Did one of you guys experienced something similar?

Post: #6

There is a difference between"pickup artistry" and "game." I would not so cider this particular community a PUA community.

Game is all encompassing, and instead of learning tricks to sleep with women, game teaches you in general how how to interact, deal with, and be better with women, in social settings in general, and in life.

Post: #7

A few that I experienced. This is a lot to do with r/K selection, and I'm quite K selected:

Notch counts are better than mini relationships/LTRs
Notch counts are easier to brag about, and r selected guys prefer high notch counts presumably because they don't appreciate relationships the same way a K selected guy does. And notch counts sell ebooks/coaching better.

It's beta or faggy to want a connection or affection from a girl. On a similar note, it being a "waste of time" to spend hours talking with a quality girl who ends up rejecting you at the end, but not a waste of time to approach dozens of girls you barely like
My guess is if you're r selected, you genuinely don't want this. So the r selected guys that do this are beta or faggy, because they want to supplicate to girls and think this is the best way. Many PUAs are r selected and then preach this as a revelation/gospel. However, if you're K selected, you genuinely enjoy connecting and bonding with girls. Obviously, you can't be beta about it, and it's not the same/as reliable as a bond with guys.

I've felt very fulfilled after date like approaches where I got to bond with the girl even if I didn't end up fucking, and it feels like time well spent. I've felt very drained approaching girl after girl and felt like a waste of time. Talking with some PUAish guys I know they often feel the other way round. This might explain PUA orthodoxy.

All girls are sluts and are willing to cheat
I've been rejected by a few girls who have boyfriends and I have enough game to know they were really into me, they were really affectionate and followed my lead, we had a deep connection especially only just a few hours in. They were just adamant on not cheating with their bfs. This latest girl would not hug me even though a girl like her who displayed that many IOIs and was that responsive to my game should let me progress a lot further. And she was traveling by herself to my country, where her bf/social circle would not know about it.

My guess is K selected girls pretty much never cheat, or need to have the perfect storm of events happening(her boyfriend seeming horrible, her being in the mood[such as ovulating], the setting being right, you being exactly her type). The times girls do cheat I'm guessing they're r selected. If they seem K selected it's most likely an r selected girl acting like one really well, or a K selected girl being in an r selected mood.

PUA guys are all legit
PUA attracts so many r-selected scammers that you really have to keep your wits about you. Game definitely works for sure, but you've got to keep an eye out for gurus who lie/use smoke and mirrors about their results. My guess is more than half are liars.

You need to lie to girls to get what you want
Lying works when you have r selected traits, and it comes naturally to you. However, it's really difficult for me to keep three things in mind at the same time: 1) what my real personality is, 2) what the girl wants my personality to seem like 3) what I've told the girl in the past or what the girl would expect in the future. An r selected guy would juggle them as easily as breathing, walking and talking at the same time. A K selected guy would find it about as hard as juggling.

The r selected guy should lie, because it doesn't really hurt anyone and he can make incremental gains each time that really add up. He's probably getting an r selected girl too, who cares much less about lying too. The K selected guy most certainly shouldn't lie because it's really difficult for him, and the incongruence kills his vibe. He should let his authentic personality shine through and give zero fucks about it. That's not to say you're beta or don't need game, in fact you probably need more game to get the quality girls you really want.

Post: #8

In my opinion high notch counts in the beginning are important because it helps with one-itis and gives you more of an overview of what you like in a woman in what you dont like..

In this way you won't just fall for the first girl that gives you the time of day and you fall for the BS.

Post: #9

(09-12-2016 02:40 PM)Armada Wrote:  PUA guys are all legit
PUA attracts so many r-selected scammers that you really have to keep your wits about you. Game definitely works for sure, but you've got to keep an eye out for gurus who lie/use smoke and mirrors about their results. My guess is more than half are liars.

^This. I was part of a PUA Facebook group where there was a large amount of guys being outed as frauds. People paying thousands of dollars for gaming advice and bootcamps and getting very little out of it. And a lot of these guys were your stereotypical PUA's: tattooed, dyed spike hair, earrings, biker attire, lived in Vegas, etc.

I look at all of my friends who have girlfriends or married and ask myself: did this guy pay thousands of dollars to some weirdo in Vegas to get this girl? Probably not, but I do know that most of them were at a good place in their lives to be able to attract this woman.

Post: #10

(09-12-2016 03:01 PM)kirdiesel Wrote:  In my opinion high notch counts in the beginning are important because it helps with one-itis and gives you more of an overview of what you like in a woman in what you dont like..

In this way you won't just fall for the first girl that gives you the time of day and you fall for the BS.

Yes. Getting a few notches early on with attractive gals...even though it didn't last, has made the ending of longer-term relationships easier for me. It's still painful, but I don't get angry in the same way that I might have in my youth, when I would fall for one girl really hard to the exclusion of all others.

They're happier, and I'm happier for it.

Post: #11

2/10 WNR (would not read), came in here expecting shots fired against a high repped member.

Post: #12

^^ Me too, I already had my popcorn in had.

Post: #13

(09-12-2016 02:40 PM)Armada Wrote:  A few that I experienced. This is a lot to do with r/K selection, and I'm quite K selected:

Notch counts are better than mini relationships/LTRs

It's beta or faggy to want a connection or affection from a girl. On a similar

[b]All girls are sluts and are willing to cheat

PUA guys are all legit

You need to lie to girls to get what you want

How did you just outline my entire world view so succinctly?

Post: #14

I think the forum has more realistic views than the vast majority of places but I have seen some views expressed here in one way or another are that I think are somewhat misguided to very misguided:

1. Breaking up/not commiting to a quality woman because you want to game.

2. Saying "AWALT! I'm going to spend my 30s and 40s chasing bar sluts, build wealth and MGTOW."

3. Wanting to sleep with a lot of women, travel and go on experiences and settle down sometime in your late 30s and early 40s and spend your 50s and 60s married and raising children.

4. Feeling you have to have a triple digit notch number or close to it.

All these attitudes are the attitudes of feminism.

Feminism teaches people to discard relationships, sleep around, have "experiences", and delay parenthood.

As for western women being sluts, sure a lot of them are. But I think if guys took the same amount of time and energy trying to get triple digit notch counts into finding a decent wife, you would've found it already.

Not saying you shouldn't bang several of girls and travel if it makes you happy. Not saying you should set yourself up to be divorced raped. Not saying you have to get married or have children. Enjoy your life and be smart about it.

But it may not be the best decision to break up with a great woman to game if that woman truly is wife/mother material. And it's not worth ending your genetic line to have "experiences" that in the end, no one will care about but you.

Post: #15

I'd like to add VALUES

Never lie, cheat, steal or be a bastard just to get laid.

No pussy is worth breaking your core values for, that's not what a man does.

Be honest, honorable and respectful.

Post: #16

(09-12-2016 02:40 PM)Armada Wrote:  A few that I experienced. This is a lot to do with r/K selection, and I'm quite K selected:

Notch counts are better than mini relationships/LTRs
Notch counts are easier to brag about, and r selected guys prefer high notch counts presumably because they don't appreciate relationships the same way a K selected guy does. And notch counts sell ebooks/coaching better.

It's beta or faggy to want a connection or affection from a girl. On a similar note, it being a "waste of time" to spend hours talking with a quality girl who ends up rejecting you at the end, but not a waste of time to approach dozens of girls you barely like
My guess is if you're r selected, you genuinely don't want this. So the r selected guys that do this are beta or faggy, because they want to supplicate to girls and think this is the best way. Many PUAs are r selected and then preach this as a revelation/gospel. However, if you're K selected, you genuinely enjoy connecting and bonding with girls. Obviously, you can't be beta about it, and it's not the same/as reliable as a bond with guys.

I've felt very fulfilled after date like approaches where I got to bond with the girl even if I didn't end up fucking, and it feels like time well spent. I've felt very drained approaching girl after girl and felt like a waste of time. Talking with some PUAish guys I know they often feel the other way round. This might explain PUA orthodoxy.

All girls are sluts and are willing to cheat
I've been rejected by a few girls who have boyfriends and I have enough game to know they were really into me, they were really affectionate and followed my lead, we had a deep connection especially only just a few hours in. They were just adamant on not cheating with their bfs. This latest girl would not hug me even though a girl like her who displayed that many IOIs and was that responsive to my game should let me progress a lot further. And she was traveling by herself to my country, where her bf/social circle would not know about it.

My guess is K selected girls pretty much never cheat, or need to have the perfect storm of events happening(her boyfriend seeming horrible, her being in the mood[such as ovulating], the setting being right, you being exactly her type). The times girls do cheat I'm guessing they're r selected. If they seem K selected it's most likely an r selected girl acting like one really well, or a K selected girl being in an r selected mood.

PUA guys are all legit
PUA attracts so many r-selected scammers that you really have to keep your wits about you. Game definitely works for sure, but you've got to keep an eye out for gurus who lie/use smoke and mirrors about their results. My guess is more than half are liars.

You need to lie to girls to get what you want
Lying works when you have r selected traits, and it comes naturally to you. However, it's really difficult for me to keep three things in mind at the same time: 1) what my real personality is, 2) what the girl wants my personality to seem like 3) what I've told the girl in the past or what the girl would expect in the future. An r selected guy would juggle them as easily as breathing, walking and talking at the same time. A K selected guy would find it about as hard as juggling.

The r selected guy should lie, because it doesn't really hurt anyone and he can make incremental gains each time that really add up. He's probably getting an r selected girl too, who cares much less about lying too. The K selected guy most certainly shouldn't lie because it's really difficult for him, and the incongruence kills his vibe. He should let his authentic personality shine through and give zero fucks about it. That's not to say you're beta or don't need game, in fact you probably need more game to get the quality girls you really want.

Solid material here. I'm definitely a K selected guy and knowing a PUA (r selected) who stick his dick in anything that move (almost) with triple digit notch, I still don't see the purpose. But everyone's different I guess.

(09-12-2016 05:11 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  I'd like to add VALUES

Never lie, cheat, steal or be a bastard just to get laid.

No pussy is worth breaking your core values for, that's not what a man does.

Be honest, honorable and respectful.

WAY underrated!!! Some man would cut their arm just to have a chance to sleep with some girls and believe me I saw ugly stuff in that regard in my former university (85% guys).

Post: #17

I stopped reading / caring after you said

"After reading a lot of content...."

I don't care, I've read a lot too. Maybe too much. I care more about people's experience.

Post: #18

RVF is definitely one of the better places I've found, but even with that in mind, what I've learned is that you have to look at these resources as not being a bible but a library.
Doing your own research is necessary to find what is needed for you.
Looking at others experiences is definitely helpful, but you can't expect to plug in someone elses formula and expect to get the same exact results. Everyones variables are different.

Post: #19

@Panther I couldn't agree more

Post: #20

(09-12-2016 05:07 PM)therealpoder Wrote:  I think the forum has more realistic views than the vast majority of places but I have seen some views expressed here in one way or another are that I think are somewhat misguided to very misguided:

1. Breaking up/not commiting to a quality woman because you want to game.

2. Saying "AWALT! I'm going to spend my 30s and 40s chasing bar sluts, build wealth and MGTOW."

3. Wanting to sleep with a lot of women, travel and go on experiences and settle down sometime in your late 30s and early 40s and spend your 50s and 60s married and raising children.

4. Feeling you have to have a triple digit notch number or close to it.

All these attitudes are the attitudes of feminism.

Feminism teaches people to discard relationships, sleep around, have "experiences", and delay parenthood.

You don't even understand how men and women acting in ways that are superficially similar have different meanings because of biology. If a man wants to sleep with a lot of women it's the attitude of feminism? Come on, man. Do you even red pill?