Post: #1

Night game vets

A typical pull is meet at 11:30, inside by 3:30 at the latest. That's the norm. A typical night at the club, followed by some venue changes and comfort build, "I'm not a serial killer" protocol. I'm more than happy with a 4 hour investment in new poon.

Occasionally you'll just meet a chick and it's on and you can pull for the toilet, but that's not one that you can bank on. (Or is that my limiting belief?!!?!?)


There are also super fast online pulls, where it's message to uber to bang. I still use dial-up so I can't speak on that.

However, a night game meet to meat can be done in half the four

A "reliable" two hour or less pull is (at acceptable levels of attractiveness)
- target
-screen
- go hard and heavy from the beginning
- tight logistics

Again, this is old news, the bedrock of this style is a guy named Gunwitch.

Here's what I'm thinking

I'm going through my back catalog, and asking myself if I *lost* bangs by not going faster. Or if I got the bang but lost post bang flexibility.

Counter intuitive, but have you played on a woman's desire for fast(er) anonymous sex with a stranger?

I know some of you guys want to just be reliable dick in a chick's contact list. I'm wondering if one can avoid all the head work that a four pull creates by going faster.

Or maybe this isn't the right forum to ask

WIA

Post: #2

Almost every single one of my SNL's had us touching each other, making out, dirty dancing in the first 10 minutes almost guaranteed leading to sex.

The whole concept of Roosh's talking to a girl at a bar for 10-15 mintues then putting a hand on her hip and testing it then talking more. Then a drink, not making out until the 30 minute or hour mark.

That is completely foreign to me as far as SNL's. That seems like it would lead to a phone number which when I have done that route the girl almost never picks up anyway since 2012 so it is a waste of time.

The same dynamic never really changed for me even going back to house party college days. The SNL's were fast action. I never sat on a couch and had a long talk with slow escalation or went out on a long walk or a porch. That often lead to phone numbers or the girl having a reason appear to cut off. Back then though girls would answer their phone after that sort of encounter so all wasn't lost.

In my experience the only reason to slow play in current day in night game is a social introduction that will lead to an after party where you play last man standing or sneaker fucker in the bushes.

Honestly even in those cases where I went out alone and got invited to the girl's friend group where I could have played it safe to wait for an after party, we were still going at it quick in front of them - so I pretty much retract my previous statement. I have never regretted going too fast in night game, because slow play has had such little upside.

Girls that are willing to get banged out with barely knowing a guy on any given night in my experience have been pretty open to it before they left the front door and their friends are usually on board as well. That's why screening is considered so big in night game and not nearly as big in day game.

Day game is a completely different story.

Post: #3

Lemme see if I can distinguish what you're saying.

If you're mugging a chick down within five minutes, that's more of a you pinged the right chick. That's not going to be every night for you.Not so much something you can do everywhere and every time.

What Roosh does is repeatable. He can go out every night and do the same thing.

That's how I get my snl's. He can take the "hey" "having the most fun" into a conversation, and get vital insight. And parlay that into the bang.

What I'm asking is can you speed up what Roosh does?
As opposed to cave manning a chick from minute zero.

Because the first hour of the old school Gunwitch approach is really just Roosh's approach in the third hour.

Keep in mind that Roosh is going light speed in contrast to dating which sex isn't even an option until she's gotten your cousin's credit report.

And the second part is whether super fast but good and memorable sex can give you more flexibility for future sex.

Overall what a player might want is an entirely sexual relationship, where there is no question in her mind of feelings, but just her desire for raw and nearly anonymous passion.

It's subtle, which is why I wasn't sure about posting this fragment of an idea here.

This is just spit balling, not proven and tested game

WIA

Post: #4

LIke travesty says, screening is king, because girls are in three categories:

1) DTF - these are the quicker ones
2) Normal - these are the most common and require the hoops of comfort building
3) No Go - learn to screen these out and walk away to avoid lost effort and wasted time (attention whores, buy me a drink, teasers)

sadly DTF are rare, but you see more of them the higher your SMV

Post: #5

(09-12-2016 04:45 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  Lemme see if I can distinguish what you're saying.

Honestly my thing is if the night wasn't right I'd rather call it early or go out less and use that time for day game or for getting in even better appearance for the nights I do go out.

I have banged some pretty hot girls from going so fast.

(09-12-2016 04:45 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  What I'm asking is can you speed up what Roosh does?
As opposed to cave manning a chick from minute zero.

My style isn't going straight for a grind and make out. There is often the 5-10 minutes of conversation. When I see a window though I dart for it, I don't wait to see if the buying temperature can go higher. This is where is disagree heavily with Tuth's 1st Date Bang mindset.

In those 5-10 minutes (maybe 15 maximum):

There is usually:

1) The approach (with a friend of hers nearby or with her)
2) A tease or observation about her and her friend
3) Heavy eye contact with her and being sure she notices me checking her out in a way that gives her no plausible deniability of why I am there
4) Getting her logistics and giving her my logistics
5) If there is a dance floor I am thinking how to get her there ASAP
6) Talking about the drinks we are having (seeding getting a round alone)
7) Getting into a play fight some how with arm grabbing, leg touching
8) If things are going really well a light spank in the middle of a joke

The bottom line is a lot of guys want to provide plausible deniability for a girl. I don't give them daylight or air to breathe. Not in a thirsty way, in the delivered intent. They understand why I am there. If they try to shit test like I am a guy "just out having a good time" I ignore that completely and grin like they don't understand who they are talking to.

It is my game or I am taking the ball and going home. What holds it together is the girl understands in the first 5 minutes it is very fun game to play.

In the back of my mind I may be saying to myself with about any chick I talk to "you've had a way better time before with a hotter girl than this one". I hope I would being saying that to myself even if I was in front of my best pull yet.


----------------

I don't enjoy "breaking the horse" in night game and winning a girl over a period of 30 minutes+ of banter. I just don't enjoy it. I just put a time-cost ratio and it doesn't check out for me.

I think we are always talking about going out solo.

Again if there are social introductions yeah I am willing to put in more work, still though I get a thrill from seeing that window early and attacking. I have never regretted that strategy and banged high enough quality girls repeatedly that it is hard for me to see any other view.

I am fine with bantering and charming all day in day game and insta dates etc... because I know if we can't bang that day I have a decent shot at seeing her later.

Maybe I can't express my game through here as well. I am sure I sound like a spam approacher that tries to grab girls' hands and drag them to the dance floor or steal a drink out of their hand and try to kiss them.

I am still pretty selectively in my approach I probably hit 5-7 girls on an all nighter. Sometimes as high as 10, that usually means I had a bad night though because nothing was clicking.

Most of my SNL nights things happen between approach 2 and 4. Rarely to go deep into approaches warming up that long.

However I know as I get older this "breaking the horse" game of changing her mind about you is something I have to invest in to get the best return. I guess I would rather still invest in social circle and money options as I get older.

Maybe my ego at this age is still too fragile, because even if I did "break the horse" over a longer period of a Maybe girl my ego would say:

"What makes her think she is so special? I've banged better looking, more fun girls in less time." The quality of personality or morals debate of the girl doesn't enter my mind when it comes to night game because I just see them all as party girls. Their value to me is how fun and easy are they to be with and how good will the sex be.

Post: #6

Yeah, a DTF girl you can pull in 2-3 hours or less. Normal I'd say is the more 7-hr rule, at least as far as I'm concerned. If you get really good at screening out red light girls, your odds of a fast lay go way up.

If everything is perfect, 5-10 minutes if you have the balls to do it.

Post: #7

This may be slightly off-topic but I've found from my nightgame pulls (not extensive my any means), the faster the pull, the more last minute resistance you will get from her.

I've pulled girls within 10 minutes, 20 minutes and 30 minutes - all resulted in massive resistance back at my place and no sex.

Maybe this is due to poor screening for a DTF girl? Maybe weak LMR game?

Cheers

Post: #8

My experience of night game: the longer the interaction, the less likely the bang. Rapid escalation works well to screen for girls who are down to bang and filter out those who are time wasters. The amount of times I've cockblocked/friendzoned myself from pro-longing interactions is embarrassing.

Sometimes overt physical escalation isn't appropriate though; discretion is required.

Just last Saturday night I met this Finnish girl in the club. I spit some basic game, she seems into me making lustful eye contact, smiling, but she's with a friend. There's no wingman to occupy her friend. I figure anything beyond light kino might backfire, she won't want to look slutty in front of her.

I don't do beta orbit game so I give her my number, tell her to hit me up after the club and bounced. We meet again at her apartment about 20 minutes later and banged.

Post: #9

What do you need for fast bangs?

I can explain in just two words: Beer.

Post: #10

(09-12-2016 05:27 PM)Silva Wrote:  This may be slightly off-topic but I've found from my nightgame pulls (not extensive my any means), the faster the pull, the more last minute resistance you will get from her.

I've pulled girls within 10 minutes, 20 minutes and 30 minutes - all resulted in massive resistance back at my place and no sex.

Maybe this is due to poor screening for a DTF girl? Maybe weak LMR game?

Cheers

Not due to screening. If she is in your bedroom your closing physical escalation game is weak, or she is the semi-rare chick that could actually see dating you.

Yet even if she sees you that way in the moment. She probably still won't answer her phone the next day after her hang over has passed.

Can you easily pick a girl off her feet or while see is straddling you on the couch or when she is laying beneath you on the couch? If you can't pick a girl up and carry her 20 feet to throw her on the bed that is your first hurdle. Get physically strong enough to do this with complete ease.

Post: #11

(09-12-2016 05:22 PM)DonnyGately Wrote:  Yeah, a DTF girl you can pull in 2-3 hours or less. Normal I'd say is the more 7-hr rule, at least as far as I'm concerned. If you get really good at screening out red light girls, your odds of a fast lay go way up.

If everything is perfect, 5-10 minutes if you have the balls to do it.

It isn't about balls it is about air tight, streamless logistics, where the entire script of any objections on the way back is at an Academy Award level.

Even if those logistics happen to be a bathroom or an alley way. Though call me crazy I'd rather fuck in a big comfy bed.

Post: #12

(09-12-2016 05:38 PM)BrewDog Wrote:  What do you need for fast bangs?

I can explain in just two words: Beer.

Someone needs to send this guy a medal.

Post: #13

(09-12-2016 05:33 PM)crudeloyalist Wrote:  I don't do beta orbit game so I give her my number, tell her to hit me up after the club and bounced. We meet again at her apartment about 20 minutes later and banged.

Very smart I will have to remember that.

I never have used hitting up after the club and putting the ball in the girl's court. Hmm. I can see how in today's age of girls not being forced to do any effort that it could turn her on to send a late night text that her friend doesn't know about.

Sneaky fucker.

Post: #14

(09-12-2016 05:22 PM)DonnyGately Wrote:  Yeah, a DTF girl you can pull in 2-3 hours or less. Normal I'd say is the more 7-hr rule, at least as far as I'm concerned. If you get really good at screening out red light girls, your odds of a fast lay go way up.

If everything is perfect, 5-10 minutes if you have the balls to do it.

I'm not so much about odds.
I don't think game is a "numbers" game.
At least that hasn't been my experience, though it may be for some.

WIA

Post: #15

(09-12-2016 05:27 PM)Silva Wrote:  This may be slightly off-topic but I've found from my nightgame pulls (not extensive my any means), the faster the pull, the more last minute resistance you will get from her.

I've pulled girls within 10 minutes, 20 minutes and 30 minutes - all resulted in massive resistance back at my place and no sex.

Maybe this is due to poor screening for a DTF girl? Maybe weak LMR game?

Cheers

No, she doesn't trust you. That's the point of the 4 hour game to build up the trust. Everytime you do something, and nothing bad happens, only good stuff happens - trust builds.

You take her from the dance floor to the bar
bar to the couch
couch to the outside smoking area
back to her friends
out for a corner slice, back to the friends

Same thing goes for when you hold her hand, when she pulls away, you let go.

You respond to her resistance without her having to say anything.
AND
You aren't butt hurt about it.

You basically can read her body language.

You're not a serial killer.

A lot of the time you can just put your hand out and a girl will grab it.
Many are easily lead that way. But her giving you her hand at the spur of the moment isn't a green light for anal in 22 minutes.

That's why guys that like indirect should experiment with more direct, and why guys that are always cave manning need to learn indirect game so they can figure out what to do if the girl isn't 100% ready.

WIA

Post: #16

(09-12-2016 05:33 PM)crudeloyalist Wrote:  My experience of night game: the longer the interaction, the less likely the bang. Rapid escalation works well to screen for girls who are down to bang and filter out those who are time wasters. The amount of times I've cockblocked/friendzoned myself from pro-longing interactions is embarrassing.

Sometimes overt physical escalation isn't appropriate though; discretion is required.

Just last Saturday night I met this Finnish girl in the club. I spit some basic game, she seems into me making lustful eye contact, smiling, but she's with a friend. There's no wingman to occupy her friend. I figure anything beyond light kino might backfire, she won't want to look slutty in front of her.

I don't do beta orbit game so I give her my number, tell her to hit me up after the club and bounced. We meet again at her apartment about 20 minutes later and banged.

That hasn't been my experience at all.

We have different game, and that's fine.

But a lot of it depends on context.

A girl might be totally fine with caveman from a guy that fits her overall type, but not one that doesn't.

The guy that is her type can go fast or slow, high energy or low energy, direct or indirect...

The guy that is NOT her type, has to focus on making her feel something for him.

She's gonna test him, and he's going to pass....and she's going to keep testing him..and he's going to keep flipping it around.

Basically what guys have found over the years is that a chick doesn't test guys she doesn't give a fuck about, she tests guys that she might fuck figuring that he's going to fail. And when he doesn't fail, that drives attraction.

"I still think I'm right about this guy not being fuck worthy..lemme test him again"

"Okay, 2 is a fluke, one more..."

After a while As Dante Nero noted, A chick is going to start asking herself, "Wait Why do I now want to fuck this guy?"

You don't need to believe me, just start reading any of the dozens pick up forums out there.

The whole thing is a big game.

It's why you wear black fingernail polish/top hat/googles/moon boots/feather boa that you know a chick is gonna give you shit for.

You stand out, and she's gonna be like "This ridiculous mf'er, let me go give him some shit for my own shits and giggles".

And when she makes a smart ass comment about your beret, and you have some shit for her ass, now she's engaged.

You see this in the movies a lot. Chick meets a guy. She baits him. He busts her balls.

She didn't want to fuck him prior, but now she's so riled up....*cue the music* then they kiss and then it turns into a bang.

The scene rings true to people because it happens. It's not just some invention of a screen writer.

Same thing happens when a chick argues with you. If you can get her laugh while she's pissed as fuck, well then now she kinda wants to have sex.

Game is just trolling women.

That's "the game" at least.

A chick will fuck for all sorts of reasons outside of game. Another topic, another post

WIA

Post: #17

This is a good thread. I have nothing to add personally as I'm not night game vet. I've never even pulled a same night lay from night game.

That said, I can certainly speculate that the more clear your intent, the quicker/easier the pull can be - but of course you will be doing more screening.

@WIA if your concern is about repeatability, I think the "slow burn" approach for ~4 hours to bang can work on many girls with less screening, while the more direct, quick escalation would require more approaches and prompt ejections like Trav states. As was said earlier, a lot of this is dependent on your look/style/vibe. A female would certainly be more willing to get fucked in the handicapped stall 10 minutes after meeting you if you're suave as fuck and look like an underwear model.

Post: #18

I've managed to get at least a couple bangs in under 30 minutes, from initial approach to vaginal penetration, but that's chiefly due to luck, effective screening and extremely favourable logistics (consistently living within 5 minutes walking distance of a city's major nightlife zone helps a ton in this regard.)

I'll post an example of mine to demonstrate how important the logistics are (one of my personal favorite bangs):

/thread-11951...pid1083300

(08-08-2015 08:45 AM)HighSpeed_LowDrag Wrote:  +1, #13 lifetime, Vietnamese flag captured.

Was gaming with scotian in Victoria at Upstairs (one of the higher-end clubs) but nothing was biting. He wanted to get an empanada from a store nearby my place, so we walk over there. Next door to the place is Deja Vous, another one of the nightclubs here.

As I'm waiting for his order to arrive so I can start heading home, I see this slim Asian chick with long jet-black hair exit the venue. I open, thinking that not much is going to come of it, but she opens surprisingly warmly.

And then this happened:

Girl: "I really need to go to the washroom."
Me: "Lol that's unfortunate."
Girl: "I really need to go, and nothing's open."

At this point the light goes on in my head. I live less than two minutes from here!

So I invite her over to my place, saying that I'm trying to organize an afterparty at my place and she can stop by to use the washroom quickly. She happily accepts, I take leave of scotian, and we head off.

I had an unexpected wrench thrown in when it turned out that I was making out with her friend (who had a boyfriend) at another nightclub last week. She thought the coincidence was hilarious but was talking about how she though it was shady to go home with the guy her friend had kissed the week earlier. I laughed it off and guided her over to my place.

Once she finished in the washroom, we sat down on my sofa. Within a few minutes we were tearing each other's clothes off.

Time from meeting to fucking: 25 minutes.

Good times.

In regards to speed, my 'style' is closer to Travesty's than Roosh's. In my experience, every minute that I'm not escalating is a minute I'm asking to get cockblocked. Canadian girls are so used to cockblocking out of habit (and usually in the rudest and most off-putting ways possible) that I'd never survive otherwise. I use escalation speed and aggression in lieu of banter and conversation because, quite frankly, I can't stand talking to the vast majority of the girls that I interact with for nightgame on a regular basis. The only girl-friendly topics I have any interest in talking about and can use at length are alcohol and travel. That's pretty much it.

I hope no one thought high-speed, low drag was just a silly username.

Post: #19

(09-12-2016 05:38 PM)BrewDog Wrote:  What do you need for fast bangs?

I can explain in just two words: Beer.

*looks at username*

Yup, checks out.

WIA

Post: #20

(09-12-2016 08:31 PM)HighSpeed_LowDrag Wrote:  I've managed to get at least a couple bangs in under 30 minutes, from initial approach to vaginal penetration, but that's chiefly due to luck, effective screening and extremely favourable logistics (consistently living within 5 minutes walking distance of a city's major nightlife zone helps a ton in this regard.)

I'll post an example of mine to demonstrate how important the logistics are (one of my personal favorite bangs):

/thread-11951...pid1083300

(08-08-2015 08:45 AM)HighSpeed_LowDrag Wrote:  +1, #13 lifetime, Vietnamese flag captured.

Was gaming with scotian in Victoria at Upstairs (one of the higher-end clubs) but nothing was biting. He wanted to get an empanada from a store nearby my place, so we walk over there. Next door to the place is Deja Vous, another one of the nightclubs here.

As I'm waiting for his order to arrive so I can start heading home, I see this slim Asian chick with long jet-black hair exit the venue. I open, thinking that not much is going to come of it, but she opens surprisingly warmly.

And then this happened:

Girl: "I really need to go to the washroom."
Me: "Lol that's unfortunate."
Girl: "I really need to go, and nothing's open."

At this point the light goes on in my head. I live less than two minutes from here!

So I invite her over to my place, saying that I'm trying to organize an afterparty at my place and she can stop by to use the washroom quickly. She happily accepts, I take leave of scotian, and we head off.

I had an unexpected wrench thrown in when it turned out that I was making out with her friend (who had a boyfriend) at another nightclub last week. She thought the coincidence was hilarious but was talking about how she though it was shady to go home with the guy her friend had kissed the week earlier. I laughed it off and guided her over to my place.

Once she finished in the washroom, we sat down on my sofa. Within a few minutes we were tearing each other's clothes off.

Time from meeting to fucking: 25 minutes.

Good times.

In regards to speed, my 'style' is closer to Travesty's than Roosh's. In my experience, every minute that I'm not escalating is a minute I'm asking to get cockblocked. Canadian girls are so used to cockblocking out of habit (and usually in the rudest and most off-putting ways possible) that I'd never survive otherwise. I use escalation speed and aggression in lieu of banter and conversation because, quite frankly, I can't stand talking to the vast majority of the girls that I interact with for nightgame on a regular basis. The only girl-friendly topics I have any interest in talking about and can use at length are alcohol and travel. That's pretty much it.

I hope no one thought high-speed, low drag was just a silly username.

Let's see if I can get this post back on track a bit.


1) I like the fact that by slowing down, you're losing em

2) After the bang, were you able to keep the chick on a mostly 100% sexual basis? Like you're her "dial a dick".

Because one of the upsides of a sexual game is that you get the BS out of the way, and you can propose arrangements.

Where as with the 4 hour move, she builds trust in you...she might get her hopes up.

WIA

Post: #21

(09-12-2016 10:03 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  Let's see if I can get this post back on track a bit.


1) I like the fact that by slowing down, you're losing em

2) After the bang, were you able to keep the chick on a mostly 100% sexual basis? Like you're her "dial a dick".

Because one of the upsides of a sexual game is that you get the BS out of the way, and you can propose arrangements.

Where as with the 4 hour move, she builds trust in you...she might get her hopes up.

WIA

Well, with that girl, afterwards we texted a few times back and forth but it eventually petered out without me ever banging her again.

One of the downsides of pulling fast is that the girls who go for it tend to view such things as a one-time deal, in my experience. But I guess it's a trade off you have to make sometimes.

Post: #22

(09-12-2016 05:48 PM)Travesty Wrote:  

(09-12-2016 05:22 PM)DonnyGately Wrote:  Yeah, a DTF girl you can pull in 2-3 hours or less. Normal I'd say is the more 7-hr rule, at least as far as I'm concerned. If you get really good at screening out red light girls, your odds of a fast lay go way up.

If everything is perfect, 5-10 minutes if you have the balls to do it.

It isn't about balls it is about air tight, streamless logistics, where the entire script of any objections on the way back is at an Academy Award level.

Even if those logistics happen to be a bathroom or an alley way. Though call me crazy I'd rather fuck in a big comfy bed.

Tight logistics were assumed in the < 10 minutes to fuck. Agreed with your last two sentences. Being within 5-10 minute cab/walk of the majority of the hot population that will fuck you sure helps.

And, c'mon man, you think the majority of guys in here would ask a hot girl to fuck in under 10 minutes? Would even 5%?

Post: #23

The fastest pull I've ever had is around 20 minutes. I think these things are an anomaly. It was actually my first cold approach on my first day after moving to an apt in Osaka's nightlife area. Kind of spoiled me.

I probably lost a lot of other bangs bc I tried walking so many girls directly home. Some wouldn't even come inside. Some came up to the roof but put up massive LMR. A few came into my apt but did the same thing. Had I taken the time and money to bounce them for a drink at least some would have ended up fucking me.

Fast pulls are great if you have logistics or if they happen anywhere I guess. Just don't let them ruin your standard MASF frame (Meet Attact Seduce Fuck). The fast lays kind of skip the seduction phase altogether bc of an unexpected isolation that excites the woman enough for sex. Or she's just really drunk.

Post: #24

(09-12-2016 06:40 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(09-12-2016 05:22 PM)DonnyGately Wrote:  Yeah, a DTF girl you can pull in 2-3 hours or less. Normal I'd say is the more 7-hr rule, at least as far as I'm concerned. If you get really good at screening out red light girls, your odds of a fast lay go way up.

If everything is perfect, 5-10 minutes if you have the balls to do it.

I'm not so much about odds.
I don't think game is a "numbers" game.
At least that hasn't been my experience, though it may be for some.

WIA

Interested with your thoughts on why you don't think game is a numbers game? My experience says it is. Although my game has got a lot better and increased my pull rate substantially, the theory still stands, if I don't talk to enough woman I won't get laid. I feel no matter how good your game is, if a woman ain't feeling you or in the mood, she ain't having it.

Post: #25

Co-sign Travesty's posts.

I looked over my little black book and found that even my shortest bang was maybe an hour approach to bedroom.

My other SNL look like this. Meet the girl, within 15 turn up the heat and hold her hand, within 30-40 minutes you've kissed. At this point you know "it's on." Keyboard warriors will say to bring her home right then, to diffuse her hamster or something, but instead...we stay out for a few hours. Go bar hopping, drink a shit ton, cause a ruckus, dance on tables, sneak into a park to look at the stars, whatever. Enjoy nightlife with a girl you are attracted to, at the end of the night bring her home and bang. At that point it's not even a discussion, the girl will be begging me to "call an uber so we can cuddle." I channel my inner Distant Light (paging...) and put positive sexual vibes out all night.

WIA's OP sounds like SNL are a flash fry (caveman) or a long bake (Roosh). My game is a quick sear followed by a slow cook, like a steak.