Post: #1

After being in a few LTRs, I've come to realize that it's important to maintain some sort of tension in there. I'm not talking constant fights and petty bullshit, but periodic "outbursts" if you will.

Case in point, I like to call out my current gf on her behavior from time to time. She often has a negative vibe and feels "down". So I'll tell her to cut it out and start acting more pleasant because I'm getting tired of her shit. Obviously she doesn't take it well and starts giving me the silent treatment, but I've noticed that it almost always works in my favor as she becomes more attached after these moments.

I've also realized that the key is calling her out CALMLY. I've only lost my cool a handful of times.

Post: #2

Exactly. Sadly women are a lot of work in a relationship and need constant fine tuning and correction.

You need to fade/withdraw attention and affection in response to her amping up her bad behavior.

If you have been treating her nice for quite some time, you will notice her treating you badly and loosing attraction until you remind her that you can take or leave her bitch ass.

Post: #3

Push/Pull isn't exclusive to the seduction process.

Post: #4

What Rats saying is gold. Its amazing how redirecting your attention elsewhere can reinvigorate a dwindling flame. I'd call it a staple in relationship dynamics - alot of men fail to utilize it to their advantage though

Post: #5

Funny, was just reflecting on this yesterday. I'm not usually one for drama and tend to withdraw attention if a girl throws any but there are players out there who instigate huge amounts of it just to create attraction.

I went to a RSD free talk a few years ago and Julien Blanc had a few great stories where he talked about really thoroughly cussing girls out, but then apologising and turn on the sweet side to get them to forgive him.

I think he covers it in this video aswell:

Post: #6

I did this exact thing with a tinder bang the other night. Her behavior was unpleasant so I threatened to kick her out. I broke her edge - she cried, I consoled her, and she was sweet as pie the rest of the night.

Post: #7

It's definitely a must, because :

• It reinstate your alpha behaviour in her mind (I say when I don't like it)
• It creates (soft) negative emotions. Girls need that to have their emotional roller coaster, as it induces intensity, re-ignite desire and makes her realize your (high) value again
  

Relationship or not, Game is for life guys. It really seems like girls subconsciously want, hell need some drama in their life. Better you create it for justified reason than her for stupid nonsense.

Post: #8

(09-20-2016 03:38 AM)James Bond Next level Wrote:  Relationship or not, Game is for life guys. It really seems like girls subconsciously want, hell need some drama in their life. Better you create it for justified reason than her for stupid nonsense.

Yep. Funny whenever I hear them say "I just don't have time for drama in my life". Yes you do , you lyin ass ho.

Drama is the air they breathe.

Post: #9

One does not need to go out of their way, or think of anything creative, to get some drama in the relationship. The girl will bring it. It's about how you deal with it. Is it a challenge or an opportunity?

I still do need to let my LTR know that I could walk. It's too bad, really. They say they want unconditional love, to be looked at like they're the only women in the world. And maybe they really do, SOME of the time. Familiarity breeds contempt.

Post: #10

Actively pulling other chicks is all the tension you need, because your attention not being on her is TENSION for her.

I've gone down the creating drama route - that really just means falling in to her frame and always providing her with the emotional roller coaster that she needs to stay attracted. You essentially lose hand.

It's like owning a tiger. Cool, you own a tiger. But you have to keep feeding the tiger, or the tiger will eat you.

Don't own the tiger. Stop trying to control the chick and start controlling yourself - what you have the most power over.

WIA

Post: #11

(09-20-2016 10:18 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  I've gone down the creating drama route - that really just means falling in to her frame and always providing her with the emotional roller coaster that she needs to stay attracted. You essentially lose hand.

I agree. The tactic of getting into fights/cussing her out, and then being sweet as pie and comforting her about the blowout YOU helped instigate and played along with is IMO a poor tactic. It's the tactic that shitty parents follow and end up raising shitty kids.

In my last couple medium-term relationships over the past year, I do believe that the only "drama" you need to participate is simply the implication that she's either with the program, or you're out of her life for a while. The "soft next" is super, super effective, way more than any nasty argument followed by sweet make-up sex ever could be.
And you feel better about yourself and sleep better at night. All women are manipulative to a greater or lesser degree, and want what they want: everything. Clearly that's impossible. So I think of it as a "harm reduction" tactic.

The "soft next" is effective not only for relationships as well. Pain in the ass family members and friends can get it too, with similar results.

Post: #12

Best defense is a strong offense.

Took me a long time to learn that lesson.

WIA

Post: #13

(09-14-2016 05:38 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  Exactly. Sadly women are a lot of work in a relationship and need constant fine tuning and correction.

You need to fade/withdraw attention and affection in response to her amping up her bad behavior.

If you have been treating her nice for quite some time, you will notice her treating you badly and loosing attraction until you remind her that you can take or leave her bitch ass.

The twisted thing about all humans is that being nice opens yourself up to criticism & being taken advantage of because people start getting brave when they sense weakness.

Men grow out of this with age because they figure out there are better things to do with time and they realize their mortality.

Women most times do not.

People respond to fear more than anything. Whether that is being punched in the face, being hurt or embarrassed by a truth said about them, or being made an outcast and ignored.

Over time after letting this set in and agreeing with WIA's good offense. In particular there was a night game set last weekend where a girl was being testy and her fat friend was trying to trip me up. There were several little remarks meant to stop me. I think my brain almost didn't bother registering what they said because my gut told me they were bullshitting and needed to be handled.

I even found myself twisting the words of what the testy girl said without planning or thinking to in order for me to look good and her to look bad. I could have just misheard what she said, I think I really understood it was just time for all out offense.

Bulldoze, ignore, keep your own agenda - if they aren't with the agenda time to leave.

Post: #14

(09-20-2016 10:18 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  Actively pulling other chicks is all the tension you need, because your attention not being on her is TENSION for her.

I've gone down the creating drama route - that really just means falling in to her frame and always providing her with the emotional roller coaster that she needs to stay attracted. You essentially lose hand.

It's like owning a tiger. Cool, you own a tiger. But you have to keep feeding the tiger, or the tiger will eat you.

Don't own the tiger. Stop trying to control the chick and start controlling yourself - what you have the most power over.

WIA

(09-20-2016 10:18 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  Best defense is a strong offense.

Took me a long time to learn that lesson.

WIA

I don't get it. First you're saying don't worry about creating drama route get her jealous instead, but then you say the best defense is a good offense? You mean like getting angry?

Also, if you even slightly hint about other girls or she finds a little bit of evidence, you will be constantly shit tested about it.

You will have to reassure her but even then she will get insecure and probably cheat on you, just in case you're cheating on her. And even if she's a chubby five she still has far more options than you. She could order a guy to her house quicker than a pizza.

Post: #15

(09-20-2016 10:18 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  I've gone down the creating drama route - that really just means falling in to her frame and always providing her with the emotional roller coaster that she needs to stay attracted. You essentially lose hand.

It's like owning a tiger. Cool, you own a tiger. But you have to keep feeding the tiger, or the tiger will eat you.

Don't own the tiger. Stop trying to control the chick and start controlling yourself - what you have the most power over.

WIA

I disagree.

If providing her with drama to keep it fresh and exciting is "falling in to her frame" and "losing your hand" then anything else we do with girls from opening to close might also be viewed this way. We come up with good ways to break the ice just to cater to them though what we really want is to tell them straight up what's up. We try hard to seduce them even though we really want to take them by the hand [or hair ] to our place and ravish.

In the end all of this drama stuff is just another tactic in the arsenal to get what we want and keep the upper hand. It can be used consciously/viciously or unconsciously just by doing your own thing regardless of her needs. It doesn't matter how you do it, what matters is that it works really well. Whether someone use it or not doesn't make it any more or less effective. However I already know that for keeping a girl on the hook and crazy in love with you drama game is much more powerful than soft nexting and distancing yourself.

Paradoxically using drama is all about controlling yourself cause it takes a lot of self discipline, balls and character to start a fire, keep it under control and put it out on command.

Post: #16

I think this is a really important subject, girl's attitudes are absolutely atrocious and are only getting worse.

So far, I think being ready to kick a girl out of your place or end a date or leave in response to her bad behaviour is good advice that is being posted here.

There is also the threat of completely leaving, but you have to do it right! I don't think you need to explicitly mention it, but subtly imply you can leave at any time. I tried to do this once, it backfired and I ended up breaking up with her. Girls are volatile, emotional and have a bad attitude.

After a silly argument I said "maybe this isn't working.." She got angry and agreed to it, insulted me, stormed out of the place, cried in the bathroom on her own but acted like she didn't and then came round later to pick up all her stuff with a friend. The whole time with a bad attitude and acting like it was her idea.

I calmly let them take the stuff, helped them with it, the friend being there helped me act even more casual because I could ignore her and be friendly with her roommate.

I then called her up about some money, and when she was saying things like "is that all you're gonna say?" She really expected me to be upset and to try and get her back, but I didn't at all which drove her crazy. A couple days later she texted me late at night saying she missed me, I ignored it but met up with her and got back with her on my own terms 4 or 5 days later. I didn't want to leave it too long or I'd risk her sleeping around or something.

So in the end it worked out better than expected, but you can't use this option more than once in the relationship. So that only leaves the threat of kicking a girl out and not seeing her for a few days. Is that all we have? Fuck. Cmon we can do better that.

Blue pill me would never have thought about trying to control and tame a woman in a relationship and definitely never have suspected that's what they're trying to do to me. But now I can see so many ways in which girls try to manipulate us and most men simply don't have a clue. It's kind of sick and sociopathic to be honest. Women think we're so evil and manipulative just for talking here.

Yet here is some of the downright evil, sick, twisted and manipulative shit women do:

- Women will get in a bad mood for hours and hours and days over something as stupid as asking them to wash up a knife. They seem to have unlimited patience for this kind of shit, whereas men don't and will just say fuck it and try and make up with them rather than call her out on this ridiculous bullshit.

- They will ask you to do something in a baby voice, you say no, then they just whine, and then you try and explain why you're saying no and it becomes an argument over what you're explaining. Ten minutes later you're sick of this shit and you let her have what she wants.

- They leave things in your house, and then when they have so much shit in your house they try and have their own drawers or even want to buy some. They get involved with day to day stuff like this so they have more excuses to see you more regularly.

- They will not take criticism well at all. They either get defensive, get upset/angry or listen to it and do nothing about it. At the same time they will regularly nag you for EVERYTHING.
It doesn't matter if her place is a complete mess, you need to clean your floor, you need to redecorate that. She will nag you every day about the same goddamn thing until you either go mental or just do it. Whereas we just don't have the patience to nag a girl for the same thing, nor do we care as much. It's ridiculous.

I've ended up in situations like this where girls are nagging me for something that they don't even do themselves.

- If you decide to get annoyed about something or tell her something she will just blow it up into a big argument and bring up anything she can about you. Every single thing in your past or anything you've revealed to her is fair game if she is being accused of not being 100% perfect.
Then she will get really upset about that one thing, more upset than you are, and she's now switched the argument round and you've lost.

- Some girls start holding all the stuff they do for you against you. So they will cook you something, but then make sure you wash the dishes and make sure to constantly remind you that they made you food and all of the things they do for you. They normally bring it up when they want you to do something for them.

It doesn't matter that you're supposed to want to do stuff for the other person and enjoy it. It doesn't matter that there's no way of keeping score like this, and even if you did, you've probably paid far more money than her in the relationship. So fuck this shit too.

- Then they will go home and laugh about all this to their friends and come up with new ways of manipulating us.

So women can fuck off when they say game is 'manipulative'. Of course it is, but what we're doing is in reaction to this bollocks and it's very tame in comparison

Anyway so what can we do? Is the best we can do is have short term relationships and just ditch them when they're getting uppity like this? I think another obvious way of maintaining tension in a relationship is to drag out the honey moon period as long as possible by not seeing them very often.

Post: #17

Getting on new chicks removes the need to control old ones. If they want to stay in your life they should act right, instead of needing you to play games.

It is proactive. Its a different mentality to be honest.

I'd say the average guy wants to pull a chick with the least effort, but then has to run dread game or amp up non existent competition anxiety. They prefer to work hard to retain customers, so they put resources into that.

After trying that philosophy for years, I decided to focus on my front end game. Why am I changing my life and dealing with unpleasantness for old pussy?

I vividly recall the first great blow job I'd ever gotten. KEEPER! Right?

Until she turned out to be one of these head cases that require constant attention and emotional management. (Nawalt for real)

Chick made my life hell with all of her problems. And the more I took on, the less the sex started to matter.

Why am I dealing with this?

In general, guys give way too much in every male to female relationship. Typical guy makes a chick climax before he does. That's not the natural order.

This chick wasn't worth it, and the more chicks you bang, the more you realize how little they add to your life.

So as a player coming up, you can focus on your pull game, and get the two- fer of new pussy and old pussy trying to get your attention by acting right

Or you can time your texts so as not to appear needy, imply competition, run dread game. Basically run back end game.

The only downside to front end focus is that a lot of guys hate it.

I enjoy it, much more than trying to guess what going on in that hamster wheel.

WIA

Post: #18

@XXL

" If providing her with drama to keep it fresh and exciting is "falling in to her frame" and "losing your hand" then anything else we do with girls from opening to close might also be viewed this way."

That view is too reductive.

But too encompass this pov, if I like going out, talking to people, dressing nicely - and i meet a chick - that is not a cost to me. She benefits, but I'm not paying for it.

If I need to accuse her of seeing other guys or spending too much time at the job, or listening to her loser friends- to start a fight - so she gets emotional release - so we can have makeup sex - that costs me.

If she starts getting bitchy, I can give her drama, or text her that she is acting funny and I am going to hit the spots with my people.

So she's fuming and I am chatting up the next double d cup.

Whereas if I want to engage in her fight to keep her appeased - that is a real cost to me.

It is like asking a girl to come with you to something you were going to do anyway, versus a date. If I'm at one of my favorite venues, the girl can show, be late, come with a chaperone, flake.- I am not phased.

There are* internal* costs to this game thing and I think a lot of the advice neglects that.

WIA

Post: #19

A relationship (MLTR or LTR) is constant work, here's some thing to help you keep her around (which I successfully use) :

-Frame control. When you see the girl a lot, you can't fake anything, she will sense the congruence (or not) in any tiny details. So you lead and make her understand that it is normal for you to lead and her to follow. She will test you in numerous ways. The good thing is: if you did like this say for 2-3 months, she will get used to and you will have a bigger margin of error.

-"Best defence is a strong offence" +1 WIA. Look for (justified) things you don't like in her behaviour. When you do find them, be rational about it, explain the reason and be calm about it. If you start to get angry, she will too (that's called symmetry in psychology) and it will be a lose-lose scenario. If you do it calmly, she will feel bad about herself and correct it. In the meantime, you can give her the silent treatment. Using women weapons against them is 100% effective, so learn it. Is it a bit manipulative? Yes, but you're either stronger and more cunning than her or you will lose her - your choice.
When I starting dating my ex (it was clear we were exclusive), she called me one night and I indirectly learn that she went to a movie with a nice guys. He was the typical nice guy - nothing to fear from him - but to me, it was a date. I explained to her calmly (and coldly) that it seem like a date, that it wasnt respectful and that she wouldn't like it if I did the same with a girl. I didn't want any justification and bid her good night and hang up. She made a big apology to me the day after, recognized her mistake and it never happened again. Bonus point : she will respect you way more after this kind of stuff.
If she didn't apologize or it was something worse, I would have done the same to her but slightly stronger.
Hypothetical case : she was drunk at a friend's party and kissed a guy. I would not say anything at first, go together at a club and kiss (good, long, makeout) with another girl before her very eyes. Then go back to her and say calmly that I didn't appreciated what she did and now she knows why.
If she start to be too bitchy, detach a bit from fer and use silent treatment and if she still bitch/won't apologize, it's time to start thinking to cut her off from your life.

-Be demanding, expect the best from her. When I was younger, I thought my dad was a bit ingrate with my mom : she cooked every meal and still he used to complain from time to time. Now, I understand that being unimpressed/demanding with a girl bring the best out of her. As long as it's not too much (remember to reward behaviour a bit too), she will be her best self thanks to you. She will realize that and think "Damn. With this guy I'm the best person I can be whereas with others, they like me even if I'm an arrogant bitch". Besides, the subtitles of the interaction (read: the frame beneath) is that since you're a bit unimpressed and she's working to please you by being her best, you control the frame.
I do that with a current MLTR : she dances, takes naked pics for me, works hard to win my approval, cook a bit, clean and I remain sometime unimpressed/neutral. I still reward her behaviour a bit. She's so hooked and don't even see other guys when she knows she can and knows that I see other girls. Same thing is happening to my wing, the girl is even in love with him

That's it, guys. I agree it's a lot of manipulation (more persuasion in that case), but it's for her own too and you remain fair to her.

Post: #20

I've been watching a bunch of this guys videos to help with my long term and short term relationships. I think he drops alot of red pill knowledge about roles in relationships and things women want versus what they say they want. Havn't had a chance to pick up his book yet, but he has alot of free videos on youtube.

Post: #21

Im really a nice guy at heart. Im a softy at heart by way of nature. So this topic really hits home for me. I don't have it in me to exert my frame all the time in a way that tells the woman - Stop that shit or GTFO. So I end up in fights where I simply show them the door and hope they come back (for the high quality ones - the others really did need to GTFO with that behavior).

One blogger I read who says a lot of things I don't agree with, but he has an idea I can't help but share: Woman need to be spanked and given some light punishment occasionally. Frame control is the most important thing, of course, but there also needs to be a real, physical, showing of force that I am the man and this bullshit stops here. She craves it and might be pissy when it comes, but the reaction when Ive don't it successfully has been like nothing else.

http://blog.jim.com/economics/fertility-...unishment/

Quote:Fertility and corporal punishment


To 1933, wives in movies are never spanked by their husbands.

From 1933 to 1945, wives in movies are sometimes spanked, but it is shocking, unexpected and unusual.

From 1945 to 1963, wives in movies and on television are sometimes spanked and it is routine, respectable, and usual. For example in “I love Lucy” we are never shown a spanking on screen, but Lucy is regularly very afraid of receiving a well deserved spanking for her many amusing misdeeds.

In the Western “McLintock” the authority figure, representing virtue, middle class respectability, and normality, unambiguously endorses the husband beating the wife severely for gross misbehavior, with a small coal shovel.

From 1945 to 1963, appropriate and proportionate corporal punishment of wives is depicted as normal, proper, appropriate, expected, and respectable. As in McLintock, it is what respectable middle class husbands do ensure that their wives and families behave in a respectably middle class manner – since women, unless restrained, have a not at all middle class preference for drama.

This had a dramatic effect on marriage and fertility in the US, almost as spectacular as the disastrous fall in fertility that ensued when McArthur emancipated Japanese women. Marriage went up, fertility went up.

We see a significant rise in fertility when spanking starts being depicted, and massive rise in fertility when it starts being depicted as normal. When spanking stops being depicted as normal, stops being depicted at all, soon followed by a massive demonization of men who rule their families and a hate fest against them, which is to say, against marriage and husbands, as marriage was traditionally understood, fertility drops like a stone, as spectacularly as when women were emancipated in Japan.

This guy tries to make the argument what really sparks desire and long term warmth from women is a man who will occasionally spank them, show them who is actually the boss, in a physical and demonstrable way.

The only issue: Its not easy to have that kind of frame control and for guys who do, they usually can just find other chicks and not have to go through the ordeal of spanking and punishing. Its for keeping high quality chicks that just need something.

Post: #22

RedPillUK,

Your experiences resonate with me in a very strong way, and it proves that the majority of women really are cut from the same cloth. I have been through nearly every one of the points you put forward, but for me once this kind of behavior begins to manifest i have no patience; I rapidly replace these women. Of course this does mean that many of my relationships are short lived, but i just can't picture myself having to "tame" a grown woman, or fine-tune a grown woman over any extended period of time. I am growing older, and have various other uncertainties in my life and work, and don't need any more once i get home from work. Its tiring, and saps the last fumes of energy a man may have at the end of the day.

An interesing anecdote i have is that i noted exactly this power dynamic with my uncle (and aunt) when I visited them some time back. They've been married (mostly happily) for 30+ years, but i could sense his dominance over her in nearly every interaction and convo they were having. He comes really close to treating her like a child!, though he's not abusive.

Yes folks, it doesn't stop once you get married. Game is for life.