Post: #1

So, there are basically two ways you can go about this...

You can be a total unmannerly pig, which will probably get you laid. This is actually good game. You give no fucks, and if you're out and about, you're paying for this shit so you'll do what you want. It actually works. Eat steak with your hands and tell her she's getting the hot pocket. Douse it in Sriracha. Not bad game at all.

However, I don't run this game because it's incongruent with my personality.

Your mileage may vary.

On the flip side, you can have straight up Don Draper manners. This fits my game and style very well.

This is what you do...

1. Always hold the door for her, and anyone else in your vicinity. When you walk into a restaurant, get to the door first. You're leading.

2. Always open the Uber door for her, and then close it when she gets in. If she tries to slide into the seat, chide her. Proper manners is you open the door for her, and then you walk to the other side of the car. The theory is that her skirt will fly up if she tries to slip into the side seat. I don't really care, it's just fun to chide her low manners. It's a total DHV. ("clearly you've never been a part of high society.") Most modern women have zero table manners.

3. Order for her. If you're a total boss, what I like to do is say "This this and this is good on the menu." Then just order it. Pick out a few good appetizers. Even if you have no idea, just pretend like you do and order a few things.

4. Be very polite to your server. The server is your wingman. Being rude to a server is a total loser move, even if they're awful. Tip well.

5. Napkin goes on lap. When you're not using the knife, it goes on the plate. You don't hold it. Utensils down on the plate when not in use.

6. No cellphone at dinner. Put it away. If she uses hers, chide her.

7. Language: "May we please..." We is good, it makes you sort of couple like. I like to use "my pleasure", "by all means", and "would it break your heart if ABC happened?"

8. If the server doesn't do it, pull out her chair.

9. Make sure to get a taste of the wine before ordering it. All wine actually tastes the same to me, but this is a classy move. ("I'd like a taste of the Merlot..."). Beer is a low class drink - stick with cocktails or wine.

10. Do not take her out to dinner on a first date. If it's awful, you'll just be stuck having dinner with someone you don't like. Dinner dates should only be had after you've at least hooked up.

Personally, I like to run "table manners" game because it's congruent with my personality and look. It's not really necessary, but you can definitely up the ante by having crazy good table manners game. I would either do high table manners or just completely shrug them off, depending on your look and personality.

Post: #2

Awesome! I'd like to add a little more, if you don't mind:

One bite of food per movement of your utensils = you cut one bite, the knife goes down to the plate, blade facing you, ends of the knife flush with each side of the plate. Fork goes under the knife in the same fashion after you've eaten a bite and while you are chewing.

Never cut a bite that's not too big to swallow if asked a question. Cut just enough to be able to carry on a conversation if someone asks you a question.

Napkin always in your lap if you're not using it to wipe.

At the end of the meal, fold your napkin perfectly geometrical (square/rectangle) place it on your plate, then place the knife and fork in the same manner as above on top of the napkin.

Never place your napkin/utensils (after you've finished) on your plate if your date is still eating.

Watch your date's drink. If you finished yours before her, order another. Like in sex, the goal is to finish together. Be prepared to down a drink if she finishes before you.

The only thing I'd deviate from the OP is, yes, you order for her, but have a conversation with her before and already have in mind what she wants, then order for the two of you. I worked as a server in a fine restaurant all through college and I can't tell you how many times a player ordered for a girl without her buy-in and it went south.

Waiter is your wingman is great, GREAT advice from OP. What's effective is to time your "trip to the bathroom" when the waiter is at the wait station. Pull him aside, slip him a $20 and say, "Hey, I'm trying to impress this girl, please make that happen." This brings the full attention of the waiter to your table and all of the sudden out come appetizers you didn't order, drinks from the bar during dessert, shots of cognac, etc. You'll be flabbergasted how well this works. All of the sudden, you are a baller and the waiter "knows" you and respects you and you look like a full-blown pimp.

Post: #3

I just don't understand the napkin on the lap. I ain't no barbarian letting food fall on my lap while I eat, and it forces the person to sit uptight crushing his balls. I like to seat manspreading style.

Post: #4

I like the mythology around having the knife blade facing inwards (medieval thing about not threatening your dining companions). I'm not sure if there is any real history about which way the knife blade should face, but it's a nice story to tell your date.

Post: #5

(12-16-2017 03:50 PM)Rocha Wrote:  I just don't understand the napkin on the lap. I ain't no barbarian letting food fall on my lap while I eat, and it forces the person to sit uptight crushing his balls. I like to seat manspreading style.

I get it. "I've mastered the art of eating without dropping shit in my lap. I do this with confidence. I can get the food to my mouth without dropping it."
That's all legit, but we're talking about "proper" table manners, of which very few make any sense whatsoever. That's just the way these things go.

It's as if you're having a Japanese Tea Ceremony, which has numerous rules and obligations. You could just say, "Pour the damn tea into my mouth," and that would be sufficient, but we're talking about a "ritual," not "man-spreading..."

If it makes you more comfortable, tuck the napkin under your nuts. No one will know the difference.

Post: #6

Very good tips, picked up a couple new ones here. I honestly haven't used table manner game nearly as effective as I could.

Post: #7

(12-16-2017 03:50 PM)Rocha Wrote:  I just don't understand the napkin on the lap. I ain't no barbarian letting food fall on my lap while I eat, and it forces the person to sit uptight crushing his balls. I like to seat manspreading style.

Table manners are incredibly archaic and make zero sense. Candidly, they're a bit annoying, and if I'm out with my male friends, I will not adhere to them. If I'm paying $100 for a meal, I'll eat it however I want to eat it. I'd rather focus on solid masculine conversation than where my napkin goes.

That said, I've found that table manners are incredibly effective when it comes to game. Most women know very little about fine dining, and you come off as much higher society than they are. You can definitely stand out by being that dapper, charming gentlemen.

It's insanely effective if you're in an LTR -- moms absolutely will love you.

Post: #8

(12-17-2017 10:41 AM)HankMoody Wrote:  Table manners are incredibly archaic and make zero sense. Candidly, they're a bit annoying, and if I'm out with my male friends, I will not adhere to them.

Perhaps... but it's this shedding of seemingly archaic and nonsensical social customs that leads to bitching about fat bitches wearing dirty sweatpants to the mall and texting instead of holding a conversation. Last time I checked, Miss Manners' generation of polite ladies were mostly dead and gone, and if men don't maintain the social customs, who will?

Post: #9

(12-17-2017 11:35 AM)ed pluribus unum Wrote:  

(12-17-2017 10:41 AM)HankMoody Wrote:  Table manners are incredibly archaic and make zero sense. Candidly, they're a bit annoying, and if I'm out with my male friends, I will not adhere to them.

Perhaps... but it's this shedding of seemingly archaic and nonsensical social customs that leads to bitching about fat bitches wearing dirty sweatpants to the mall and texting instead of holding a conversation. Last time I checked, Miss Manners' generation of polite ladies were mostly dead and gone, and if men don't maintain the social customs, who will?

Agree.

Good post.

I don't necessarily understand the reason behind many table manners, but you're right, circumventing them has lead to a world of fat women wearing yoga pants everywhere caked with cat hair.

Post: #10

(12-17-2017 11:57 AM)HankMoody Wrote:  I don't necessarily understand the reason behind many table manners, but you're right, circumventing them has lead to a world of fat women wearing yoga pants everywhere caked with cat hair.

This is stuff probably everyone already knows but:

In the old days it was a relatively easy way to determine which social class you belonged to. It was used a screen in part for making hiring decisions and so on. Even today, there is still some value in knowing good table manners because it says you took the time to learn them.

For example, I have heard many women comment about some guy who opened a door for them and how nice it was. Also, I was reading a thread about Argentinian women and apparently they get quite upset if you do not pour them their glass of wine. And I have been turned off by women who yawn without covering their mouth or check their phone while we are in a conversation together. By the same token, I would also say that I value a woman more who shows she has good manners. But obviously these things matter more when looking at LTRs rather than shorter term relationships.

Post: #11

(12-17-2017 12:50 PM)TIOT12 Wrote:  In the old days it was a relatively easy way to determine which social class you belonged to. It was used a screen in part for making hiring decisions and so on. Even today, there is still some value in knowing good table manners because it says you took the time to learn them.

It still does. If you are holding your knife in your right hand you are a prolétariat

I was lucky enough to had my French host mother as the last Countess of Gastille, an old blue bloodline in France, and learned every table manners from her. Worked surprisingly well when I take chicks to restaurants. They often ask if I'm left-handed, until I explain to them how the royalties really eat (bourgeoisie are still plebeian) Turn out, a lawyer chick from an old family at my old intern recognized my table manners and ask me where I got that from.

Co-sign Hank for the OP. If you are in Europe, mandatory to taste the wine, and in 3 steps. Have the waiter pour you just a bit, swirl it, inhale it, drink it and keep it your mouth while sucking in some air. Finish with, "nice texture, I'll take the wine sir".

Post: #12

A few more.

Ordering for a woman - this is classic and simplifies the process for the server. Also, some women are intimidated about special requests, the temperataure a steak should be cooked, substitutions, etc. I always ask what they like. For LTRs, they would often be indecisive and need to be led. "I can't decide between A and B." I would usually respond, I' think you will enjoy A better, but I will get B and we can share.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ePVbtPq3ex0/Ua...10s126.jpg

Opening doors - I was taught to do this, but this is a waning custom. The Eagles have a song with a line that goes sometthing like "those girls in the city can open a door with just a smile." But that was written more than a generation ago.

Elevators - allow women to enter and exit first. This allows you to enjoy a good look at their ass.

Drinks go upper right, bread plate upper left. As an intern, I was once seated at a large, round table. Someone grabbed the wrong bread plate and a cascade effect ensued. But never call out someone's inferiority or deformity.

Pass the salt and pepper together, even if someone asks for just one. Also, its considered rude to the host to season your food before tasting it.

Butter - use the community butter knife to take some butter and place it on your bread plate. Then use your own utensil to spread the butter on your bread.

Wait until all present have received their food before you begin eating, especially your host who might want to say a few words or offer a blessing (I was at the home of a very successful businessman for a Christmas party. Net worth of several hundred million dollars. Party was catered with excellent food. This was a company party yet he had a pastor give a religious blessing blessing anyone ate.) At a restaurant, if the kitchen makes a mistake with your order, request that your fellow dining companions not wait for your to arrive.

Dinner parties - bring a small gift for the host. A nice bottle of wine or something similar is de rigueur. If you go to watch the game at a buddy's house, bring a 6-pack of craft beer. If he springs for PPV for the fight, bring a nice bottle of liquor.

The True Gentleman: The True Gentleman is the man whose conduct proceeds from good will and an acute sense of propriety, and whose self-control is equal to all emergencies; who does not make the poor man conscious of his poverty, the obscure man of his obscurity, or any man of his inferiority or deformity; who is himself humbled if necessity compels him to humble another; who does not flatter wealth, cringe before power, or boast of his own possessions or achievements; who speaks with frankness but always with sincerity and sympathy; whose deed follows his word; who thinks of the rights and feelings of others, rather than his own; and who appears well in any company, a man with whom honor is sacred and virtue safe.

- John Walter Wayland

Post: #13

(12-21-2017 11:25 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

(12-17-2017 12:50 PM)TIOT12 Wrote:  In the old days it was a relatively easy way to determine which social class you belonged to. It was used a screen in part for making hiring decisions and so on. Even today, there is still some value in knowing good table manners because it says you took the time to learn them.

It still does. If you are holding your knife in your right hand you are a prolétariat

This is true on the Continent, and many Americans in NYC hold their knife Continental style. But holding your knife with your right hand is proper in the U.S. and probable all of North America.

Still, good manners are appreciated and can help to distinguish you from others in a variety of situations.