Post: #1

How do I balance "Kindness" and "Hustle"?

I am huge fan of Gary V and he talks about many human attributes including, but not limited to "kindness" and "hustle"...

One of the main epiphanies or lessons that I learned last two months is to employ humility on so that you reflect on yourself, which gives you an anchor to grow and not just "I am the best in the world". I realized that that kind of delusional confidence does has time and place to be utilized, but when you are trying to grow and learn, it's not the most effective mentality to have.

Then I realized that I need to be empathetic to the other person, which gives me the power to leverage "kindness" because I understand how others are feeling. Calibration. Overall, I think it's a good trait to be "nice" unless you are a push-over and you are coming across as someone who is too innocent or naïve. (I am not like that and people can tell until I help them with 1 small thing and then I feel like people just immediate judge based on that act.)

My questions is, when I am being "nice" to another person whether it's a text message that I am sending wishing someone good luck on something or just helping someone out in a very trivial way, I feel like I am automatically labeled a "nice guy" and people try to take advantage of that.

I used to have this mentality of "Assholes finish 1st", "Hustle so hard and just dominate", "Stop giving a f about others" to the extreme. In other words, I was pushing "hustle" too hard. Now I want to change because I realize that when you give value to people, you attract them, and people want to be around you. That is what I learned from people who are successful, powerful, and popular. The people who just give off "good vibes". These people are actually fucking nice and kind.

One thing I noticed was that those people are actually coming from a pretty high value position. Ex. A guy making 6~7figures is helping out a guy making mid 5 figures, that is just pure value. Is it possible to give off "good vibes" when my value is lower than the other person?

TLDR: How do I become that person and give good vibes and someone who gives off value without being perceived as a person that will be advantage of? Even though I help people on a lot of things, I feel like I am not giving off good vibes and attracting people naturally.

Post: #2

‘Speak softly, and carry a big stick’

Post: #3

Do you want to be nice out of altruism and compassion for others, or do you view kindness as just a different method of promoting yourself and getting forward in worldly matters?

Both objectives have value but the answer would be different in each case. There is of course some overlap: for example evidence suggests that women value altruism in men.

Post: #4

(03-01-2018 06:08 AM)Montrose Wrote:  Do you want to be nice out of altruism and compassion for others, or do you view kindness as just a different method of promoting yourself and getting forward in worldly matters?

Mostly the first part. That is 80%
However, of course, I am human and I will get a "hit of dopamine" if someone thinks that I am a good person. This is 20%...Not the main reason why I want to help people.

However, I just do things because I believe that it's the 'right' thing to do without anything in return...
For example, two days ago, I found a laptop case that had a fully functioning laptop in it in my school. I went to the front desk of the building and they said they will keep it. I walked away with nothing. Thus, I do help people without getting recognized, but when I do help people and they know it, I feel like they just immediately judge me super quick and my value goes down.

Post: #5

By definition, altruism is always a cost for the altruist. Altruism costs money, time, and respect from people who think you’re a pushover. So deciding to allocate resources to altruism is an open problem. There is no explicit solution. Yes, if you’re too kind some people will despise you for that (but some will respect you for that). You can mitigate that by being respectable by other means, by building a reputation.

Post: #6

But altruism has many advantages, it improves the quality of your personal relationships (if they are long term enough), it makes you feel good, and it shows others that you are powerful enough that you can sacrifice resources to help others. The supreme masculine role, Fatherhood, which should be every man’s calling, is an exercise in altruism.

Ultimately, it’s your choice. But make it your own choice. Don’t be nice just because people say you have to. Don’t be an asshole just because rooshists says so. There is a good scene in the French version of Dom Juan where Dom Juan offers a gold piece to a beggar if he would reject God. When the beggar refuses, Dom Juan says ‘I’ll give you the money anyway, for the love of mankind’. To me that is the right attitude.

Post: #7

(03-01-2018 05:50 AM)bgbusiness Wrote:  How do I balance "Kindness" and "Hustle"?


One thing I noticed was that those people are actually coming from a pretty high value position. Ex. A guy making 6~7figures is helping out a guy making mid 5 figures, that is just pure value. Is it possible to give off "good vibes" when my value is lower than the other person?

I know it wasn't your main question, but I noticed this statement and wanted to comment because I think it might be skewing your outlook a little.

I won't go into the details but in the 90s I worked with clients from the White House, World Bank, IMF, and State Department (we were in the Foggy Bottom, D.C.). At first I was intimidated upon meeting some of the same people that I had just seen the night before on the news, but I was startled to discover how incredibly nice they were. I mean, highly influential people spending time talking to me about stupid stuff like pets and kids and in general being very friendly. Their subordinates/ assistants/ undersecretaries etc however, those people were monsters. They never lost an opportunity to tell me how busy they were, how I was wasting their time, how I needed to do X, Y and Z immediately, blah blah.

After thinking about it for a while I realized- the powerful but nice people were once just like the less powerful but mean ones. At one time they were younger, less accomplished, yet full of ambition, working at a high level government job or law firm to get the get the lucrative directorship/ clerkship or whatever position and more money (with these people I think it was more about the power and access to the Clintons, but it's the same idea). In other words, they super powerful ones were nice because they could now afford to be magnanimous, which is not something all of us can say, especially when we are in a junior position in an organization.

I guess what I'm saying is that if you are a low level or mid-level in your career or social group (not an insult- I mean professionally if you're still relatively young and proving yourself), you shouldn't fell too much pressure to be altruistic. Don't worry about missing out on an opportunity to help people, or if someone might think you are nice or a pushover. Do you like being altruistic and helping people? Work on yourself, achieve some things, and then take some young people under your wing. That sort of help will also be much more significant in someone's life than just doing trivial things.

Post: #8

Focus on serving others and exceeding their expectations. Do this whether its in business or community service. If your focus is on the other person, kindness will flow. You also will have success because you are looking at things from the other person's perspective.

One of the most successful people I know runs a volunteer youth rec league for his church. The guy is a tireless worker, but he works to serve others. What happens is people see his example and multiply it many times over. It also paradoxically makes this most humble man a very influential leader.

If you approach work or business or anything from the perspective of humbling yourself and serving others, kiindness and success will result.

Post: #9

(03-01-2018 12:50 PM)Stirfry Wrote:  I know it wasn't your main question, but I noticed this statement and wanted to comment because I think it might be skewing your outlook a little...In other words, they super powerful ones were nice because they could now afford to be magnanimous, which is not something all of us can say, especially when we are in a junior position in an organization.

I guess what I'm saying is that if you are a low level or mid-level in your career or social group (not an insult- I mean professionally if you're still relatively young and proving yourself), you shouldn't fell too much pressure to be altruistic. Don't worry about missing out on an opportunity to help people, or if someone might think you are nice or a pushover. Do you like being altruistic and helping people? Work on yourself, achieve some things, and then take some young people under your wing. That sort of help will also be much more significant in someone's life than just doing trivial things.

HankMoody has touched on this issue indirectly in other posts, and it's an important one: successful people who are harried and short-tempered are often unintentionally signalling their lower status and ability.

The image of the man in charge is "free and easy". Not that life is simple or leisurely, but that everything is under control. There's a reason Star Trek portrays Kirk as thoughtful, good humored, and confident, Scotty and McCoy as routinely frazzled and irritable. All three work miracles, but only Kirk is trusted with command judgment.

Of course, it's all image, marketing, narrative, but it still matters to how people write you into their own story, and the people who rise to the top have usually figured this out. Who wants to promote someone who gives the appearance of already being at their limits, bitter and distressed?

As far as altruism goes, there's a difference between kindness and giving. Being supportive of the success of others, inclusive of people who deserve it, and gracious about honest mistakes costs you very little and yields big results with people. Enabling them or carrying their burdens for them is just dumb. Knowing the difference is an important life skill.

Post: #10

Thank you everyone for quality posts.
They really helped me a lot and gave me some clarity.

(03-01-2018 02:49 PM)Jetset Wrote:  HankMoody has touched on this issue indirectly in other posts, and it's an important one: successful people who are harried and short-tempered are often unintentionally signalling their lower status and ability.

The image of the man in charge is "free and easy". Not that life is simple or leisurely, but that everything is under control. There's a reason Star Trek portrays Kirk as thoughtful, good humored, and confident, Scotty and McCoy as routinely frazzled and irritable. All three work miracles, but only Kirk is trusted with command judgment.

One of the laws from 48 Laws of Power by RG came into my mind...
Law 30: Make your accomplishments seem effortless

It's true when someone is reaching their goals by putting extra hours and struggling hard, people might think that it's all they got even though they did get their job done at the end.

Post: #11

I struggle with the same, sort of. I'm always willing to help people out, extend money / good will / work opportunities, and people take advantage of it. The more you give, the more certain people tend to want to take. Then when you aren't as generous as they want you to be, they freak out and suddenly you're a bad guy. ("But Haaank! My rent is due tomorrow and I'm such a good friend. You have the money!! Can't I borrow $500!? That's like, dinner for you!! How could you do this to me???") The Christian in me gets the point, but after awhile, you realize these people are leeches, and usually failed to admit that they spent $500 on booze, coke, and eating out. If someone fell on tough times due to a medical issue, I'd probably be willing to pitch in here and there. However, some people will just take take take take take, because they innately believe those who work hard and have nice things should subsidize those who don't want to work hard and waste their cash on stupid stuff.

What I've found works for me is simply not associating with toxic leeches too closely. Anyone who asks you constantly for money and favors, simply distance yourself from them. You don't need to say "You're a needy leech and being around you is annoying", simply don't hang out with them all that often; return texts and calls sparsely.

One saying I like to use: "Your cashflow issues are not going to become my cashflow issues."

That aside, with some exceptions, these are the traits most successful people give off...

- Good humored (not that everything is a joke, but they tend to maintain good humor in all situations)
- Assertive (don't be afraid to state your needs, like ask a waiter for a clean fork or send something back because it's cold. But don't be a douche about it - being a douche makes you appear low value)
- Confident and a leader ("C'mon fellas. We got this. Let's go kick some ass.") Make everyone feel like they're part of your inner-circle or in an inside joke.
- Able to relate to a lot of different people. A key strength is being able to relate to and interact with lawyers, doctors, architects, businessmen, and developers just like you would bartenders, customer service reps, tattoo artists, servers, construction workers, etc. You have to be willing to be able to leave your own "comfort zone". (i.e., a lot of professionals are only comfortable around other people who do something similar to what they do for a living, make a similar income, etc.) You would also be amazed at how many "blue collar millionaires" are out there -- I have doctors who can barely afford to pay a legal bill, and tattoo artists trying to figure out their next major real estate deal. A white shirt, tie, and education means far less than people think it does in this day and age.
- Not jealous of people who have more than them, but they don't treat people who have less than them like shit.
- Successful people generally keep fit, and keep it fun. Personally, I use the gym for networking and dating too. Tomorrow I have two meetings at the gym with new clients. Racquetball and a swim always tends to lead to more business.

Other random advice...

- Do not associate with people who constantly have cashflow issues, or problems in general. They will try and make their problems your problems. Chances are their problems were self-inflicted anyway.
- Bring people up to your level; don't go down to theirs. ("Hank, you wanna go rip shots and slam cheesesteaks?" "Nah, but I would go play racquetball and eat some sashimi after.")
- Be very wary and distrustful of women. They will turn on you at the drop of a dime for something better. Some men, but not all, understand the concept of loyalty. For the most part, women are always looking for something better or someone stronger.
- Interact with men and women differently. You can send a dude a text like "Yo bro, slay that interview tomorrow!" or "Let me know how it goes with the new potential client tomorrow. Good luck!" Women, not so much. They generally do not respect the traits of mercy, generosity, caring, altruism, etc. They respect strength, and pay you lip service for generosity (until another man is willing to extend more generosity).
- Associate with a lot of different social circles, but don't commit yourself to any one of them. You should be your own social circle with a few close confidants. Move in between them. They'll all view you as 'one of them' but you're not.
- Play your cards close to the vest, and don't alienate anyone. Talk less, do more.
- Spend one day a week networking, and spend one day a week relaxing. I network on Fridays (court permitting), and relax on Sundays. (Church, gym, brunch).
- Don't be afraid to cut the cord with women / clients / customers who waste your time and don't contribute anything. Time you give away is time you could be spending on yourself.
- Keep your inner-circle small and all male. Don't bring people into your inner circle too quickly or easily.
- Don't put anything in writing

In 2017, I gave too much time and expended too many resources on people who were leeches. There was "no time" for things like the gym, jiu jitsu, networking, hiking, hobbies, dating, writing, etc. Everyone else's issues came before myself.

In 2018, I cut out a lot of the leeches, smuts, clients who want a free ride, etc. I find myself having more money, more time, and more energy. Over the last three months, I've pretty much said "no" to any venture that doesn't have a benefit to me.

Suddenly I have time, money, and energy again to focus on myself.

Suggested reading:

- Think and Grow Rich (Napoleon Hill)
- The Millionaire Real Estate Investor / Agent (Gary Keller)
- How to Win Friends and Influence People (Dale Carnegie)
- 48 Laws of Power (Robert Greene)
- The Bible (there is always scripture for pretty much every issue. See 1 Corinthians; Luke 10:29-37; 18:18-25; James 2:15-17)
- Unlimited Power (Tony Robbins)
- Awaken the Giant Within (Tony Robbins)

Post: #12

Deep down, the altruist has to recognize that, on some level, doing the altruistic act will make the entire world a slightly better place.

Including his world.

Then... it's not really altruism anymore (it never was).

And then he has to recognize that doing good by other good people is a multiplication of goodness. And doing good by bad people is enabling their evil.

Virtue is not always its own reward when it aids and abets (incentivizes/rewards) sloth or impulsiveness.

So that becomes the real question. "I am just doing something because it feels kind, but it is actually kicking the can down the road for someone else to deal with the emboldened and entitled asshole I have just equipped... or is this the first step on this person's quest for righteousness"?

And yes, if you contribute, you get to share the responsibility of their ensuing harm or virtue.

Post: #13

Learn to be charming, and gently amusing, and then to give it to people straight. And be calm, always. Make yourself their most powerful ally without being their benefactor.

A great tip if it doesn't come naturally to you is to work on your eyes and your facial expressions. Learn to smile with your eyes, and to convey warmth and kindness with them. This allows you to communicate your love and affection for someone whilst still giving them the truth.

I've found this very effective. I've been very fortunate to naturally have very expressive eyes. I show most of my emotions through my eyes and small facial expressions. If people come to you for advice, and you can listen to them with evident concern and love, you often don't need to say very much to help them work through the problem - when they are obviously lying to themselves a little tilt of the head, a slight amused pursing of the lips and a slight raising of the eyebrow can be infinitely more effective than any words you might muster. You're not overtly calling anyone out, or forcing them to defend themselves. In fact, you are conveying intimacy and understanding, and thereby making them feel safe enough to correct themselves of their own volition. It is possible to convey a great deal of love, affection and sincerity, without allowing the person in front of you to get one over on you for a second. It is possible to be very tough, and very gentle, simultaneously.

As for how you reach this point, my feeling is that you have to repeatedly suffer and put yourself in situations that demand a lot from you. Experience counts, and competence is everything. To build it, you really have to put yourself out there for a long time. People need to get the vibe from you that you've been through the wringer yourself - that you've known similar travails. You can learn a lot about the world and how it works by reading, but this must be supplemented by experience, and an existence that isn't too rarified.

Post: #14

(03-02-2018 03:25 AM)HankMoody Wrote:  - Unlimited Power (Tony Robbins)
- Awaken the Giant Within (Tony Robbins)

@HankMoody, I really appreciate your constructive feedback.
It really helps me a lot. I will check those books out, I am huge fan of Tony Robbins. The other books I have already read them already. =)

I am also Christian.
I really resonate with the way you think and like how you carry yourself. Thank you.

Post: #15

What i think could be summarized with this thread is that everyone has to find the right balance, likely very early on in any relationship, between being too placating and trying to satisfy someone, and maintaining boundaries. At first when we meet someone, we may be seeking approval and acceptance from them, and we may be too giving. I think showing more reserve and not overreacting as such communicates more strength and confidence, and will deliver better results as the relationship develops. Maybe a little bit of assholishness would be good.